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How good are the tellius games?


Harvey
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PoR is the better of the two but they're both decent. I used to like RD better but upon replaying both I think PoR is the better game. PoR's plot isn't as good as Genealogy of the Holy War or Thracia 776 but it's pretty good. The gameplay is pretty enjoyable, although would be more enjoyable if you could fully turn off animations because even the map animations take way too long. RD's story is convoluted and relies too much on shit like blood contracts for plot convenience and really just is kind of a mess. The gameplay is pretty good and with how many units there are the game has decent replay value but some of the game just feels like a complete slog to get through, especially since you have to beat the game once before you unlock the ability to turn off animations entirely. I used to like it a lot better than I do now but after replaying it I felt the games issues a little bit more than I did the first time around. It's still a fun game and it's worth playing if you like Fire Emblem. Overall the gameplay is pretty solid. I'd recommend playing both of them if you enjoy Fire Emblem.

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@Harvey In PoR and RD you can steal anything that is not equipped, so I tend to go through my enemies and see what I can swipe before I start a map.  Stealing promotion items, weapons, staves and gems were some of the most fun I had playing those two games.  You can also steal healing items.  That was the thing that I missed the most in the 3DS games that I keep hoping will come back because it was fun robbing my enemies blind:)

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Just now, grinus said:

@EricaofRenais You forgot to mention to Harvey about the enemy abuse that is possible with Sothe and Brom's disarm ability. :) 

Oh yeah I forgot about that since it has been two years since I last played the Tellius saga.  Now I really need to replay them after I finish off SoV.

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Path of Radiance was a pretty polished FE title, it did skills right and handled supports pretty well. The story was pretty on point, especially with characterisation.  The gameplay was decent, although I found even Hard was a little too easy for my tastes. Radiant Dawn was a different experience, I lost interest half way through part 2, I found it played really slowly and the Dawn Brigade weren't particularly impressive. The only real solace for me is that it had a reasonable premise and confirmed some details, such as Elincia's marriage, from the previous title.

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8 minutes ago, Shin said:

such as Elincia's marriage, from the previous title.

What?

 

13 hours ago, Harvey said:

I dislike the story mainly because Roy is almost acts like a flawless character and the plot hardly has any sad moments and the supports for the most part are just..bleh. But PoR from the sounds of it is different so I don't know where you came up with the similarity.

Setting RD aside, despite what some may tell you, there are sad moments and Ike does face consequences of his actions, just they don't end up with him dead which is kind of what it seems like people saying everything goes his way think should happen. I get that there are plot conveniences, but nothing that's really any more egregious than any other fantasy story.

As for the rest of the games, PoR is my favorite FE due to the story and characters in conjunction with the gameplay. SoV has my favorite class, but the maps are largely shite and some of the mechanics I like in theory weren't the best in execution. For PoR, I agree that even hard mode is a bit of a joke—at least SS had Father and Son which could be a little tricky on hard—and it hasn't aged well in terms of animations or graphics, but in terms of map designs and objectives and character portraits, it's still very solid. I replayed it a year or so back, and enjoyed it as much as I did the first time. The trial maps are also a ton of fun.

In terms of gameplay, RD improved on basically everything PoR did. The two potential caveats were whether you feel third tiers are superfluous and Laguz's stats doubling when transformed so they can keep up with third tiers without having stupid high untransformed stats. There are some people who don't like those, but the majority seem to either like them or be fine with them at worst. Overall, RD still has my favorite gameplay in the series provided we're talking about a map-per-map basis. It has some serious issues in terms of larger things like character viability and the questionable to say the least decision to remove viewing enemy movement range from hard mode. The story is also a bit all over the place, and one thing that is interesting is that no one ever really seems to agree on which parts are good and which parts are bad, but it's serviceable enough despite some pretty crappy plot devices and retcons of characters. That said it's still probably in my top 5 FEs because the gameplay is great and the story is workable enough. Also, the combat animations are still probably my favorite style in the series. I like how it was the first one to really have personalized models for everyone, even if a lot were only at third tier, like how Awakening on continued with, but I prefer its style to the slightly more chibi designs of those games.

If they ever do remakes, I would love one that's basically PoR with all RD's mechanics adjusted for balancing, e.g. Laguz stats, and I'd love an RD remake that cleans up the story, though I feel like if they change it too much it would piss a lot of people off.

On a side note, it's kind of funny how liked these games are now. PoR had always been fairly well received, but I remember back when RD first came out how it was the first FE released outside of Japan that hadn't gotten real great reviews and everyone in the fandom would just harp on what a mess it was and how awful Micaiah is as an MC.

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Both are solid games. Great writing (although RD had a few plot points that were kinda awkward)

Gameplay wise, both are great as well. Tons of great characters and alot of fun maps overall. RD had some unit balancing issues though, but its mostly ignorable on lower difficulties and if you know what to expect.

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On 5/19/2018 at 2:43 PM, bottlegnomes said:

What?

This. Elincia has no 100% canon marriage. Her ending with Geoffrey is completely optional.

As a side note, it's also ridiculously hard to get due to Geoffrey's very limited availability.

Seriously, any Tellius remakes really need to improve on the characters with terrible availability like that. And also give Ike and Elincia a well-deserved ending, even if it has to be platonic.

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Radiant dawn is amazing. It's one of the rare games that have a super intriguing plot along side amazing map design. Personally, my favourite map design in the entire series. The plot of Radiant dawn feels so different then the 'Evil nation subjugates good nation' that most_actually all fire emblem games are known for. It essentially a political struggle and that's actually a breath of fresh air. The narration in all three parts is super complex and very captivating. Part 4 is a little lackluster but hey, can't be good at everything. The cast is super interesting and very well-Developed, well More so in Path of Radiance.

As for the gameplay, Every single map is quite unique. There are so many objectives especially if you want the full amount of BEx. Every map feels different and the ledge elevation makes the maps even more interesting. A few of them can be quite tedious especially due to the slow animation. I find the player phase to fun regardless of the slow animation because the animations are beautiful and they're fun to look at but the enemy phase can be quite annoying. 

As for Path if radiance, it's plot is also super captivating arguably better then Radiant dawn's. The game play isn't as fun as Radiant dawn but it's not bad by any means. Its actually quite like scared stones except with a lot more objectives. But I find the gba games reallky boring gameplay wise due to the lack of objectives in the map and the disinclution of the skill system. It's really easy so you'll enjoy more on hard mode.

They are excellent games and I would highly recommend them but__if you find them at a reasonable price. I doubt 300$ for a game is worth it. Unless you're super rich. I got both of them on eBay Por for 90$ and Rd for 60ish... you can also emulate them but need a very strong comp/lappy for that. Good luck.

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Okay so here's a result of a survey on Fire Emblem sub reddit that quizzes everyone on various aspects from all Fire Emblem games. Radiant Dawn was the favourite game of more people than any other FE game by a good margin. Path of Radiance was also in the top 5. Both PoR and RD were the only games whose score was greater than 8. Apart from Geneology of the Holy War, PoR and RD had the best stories. RD has the second best music, only beat by Echoes. RD has the best gameplay in the series barring Fates: Conquest. RD also has the best art style barring SoV. 

In summary, according to the FE subreddit poll conducted three months ago, RD is a great game in pretty much all aspects and PoR is a solid game as well. 

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@Icelerate I know I mentioned it here already, but it still blows my mind how popular RD has become. Kind of nice to see it after its initially mixed reception. While I personally think it's a million times better than Fates, kind of makes you wonder about how that'll be viewed down the line.

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On 24/05/2018 at 9:05 PM, bottlegnomes said:

@Icelerate I know I mentioned it here already, but it still blows my mind how popular RD has become. Kind of nice to see it after its initially mixed reception. While I personally think it's a million times better than Fates, kind of makes you wonder about how that'll be viewed down the line.

Well RD got flack for its writing for having some unrealistic stuff that I won't go into because that is spoiler territory. However, I think it's by far the best in the series because the good guys don't always win battle after battle with ease unlike PoR, Binding Blade and Shadow Dragon, to name a few. 

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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Well RD got flack for its writing for having some unrealistic stuff that I won't go into because that is spoiler territory. However, I think it's by far the best in the series because the good guys don't always win battle after battle with ease unlike PoR, Binding Blade and Shadow Dragon, to name a few. 

BB and SD, I don't remember well enough to say, but I'd have to disagree on PoR. A large chunk of it is Ike and company running with their tails between their legs and the in-game victories of that section are more reflected as them dealing with a comparatively minor force while trying to escape from the bigger force by picking that weak point. It's not actually until they make some pretty powerful alliances that things start going smoothly which us stated as much from being due to their allies.

As for RD, it feels like a precursor to the issues that Fates had, just not nearly as bad. Both are quite ambitious games that end up being messy due to that ambition. Still, Love RD and remember wondering why people didn't like it when it first came out.

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1 minute ago, bottlegnomes said:

BB and SD, I don't remember well enough to say, but I'd have to disagree on PoR. A large chunk of it is Ike and company running with their tails between their legs and the in-game victories of that section are more reflected as them dealing with a comparatively minor force while trying to escape from the bigger force by picking that weak point. It's not actually until they make some pretty powerful alliances that things start going smoothly which us stated as much from being due to their allies.

As for RD, it feels like a precursor to the issues that Fates had, just not nearly as bad. Both are quite ambitious games that end up being messy due to that ambition. Still, Love RD and remember wondering why people didn't like it when it first came out.

I meant when they go on the offensive after chapter 18. Radiant Dawn did the whole surviving from the bigger force better anyway. 

I'd argue that the alliance ended up reducing whatever tension PoR's plot could have. 

Spoiler

Imagine if tensions started arising due to some oppressive Begnion commanders started oppressing Daein which Ike tries to stop but fails and has to move on. Then imagine if the Laguz Alliance's tensions with Begnion actually caused some type of skirmish between the two. Also in Port Toha, it's revealed racism is a huge problem in Crimea but this is ignored in the last third of the game. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I meant when they go on the offensive after chapter 18.

That'd just be changing the narrative arc for the sake of being different. Think of it like an underdog sports movie. Scrappy team gets the snot kicked out of them over and over but through grit and perseverance they finally turn the tide and start winning. Then they face their big obstacle: The best team in the league (Ashnard/BK), and have to prove all their wins up until now were actually worth a damn when the gloves really come off.

EDIT: Didn't mean to spoiler the whole thing below, but I'm on my phone and it's being difficult, so leaving it as is. There are also arguably spoilers in the whole thing so can't hurt I suppose. Just wanted to explain the funky formatting.

 

RD works because it's about relatively equal forces engaging in a conflict neither side is going to win and potentially resulting in mutual annihilation.

If you were to combine/condense the two's plots then that could work, but as is, it'd be subverting tropes for reasons that don't serve the story.

As a side note, the more I think about it, the more there's a lot of (somewhat loose) WWII/Cold War parallels in the Tellius games.

8 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Radiant Dawn did the whole surviving from the bigger force better anyway. 

I wouldn't actively disagree, but I don't know that I can agree either, but really to each their own.

To the spoilered section, that could be interesting, but again, working it into the story has to be considered. PoR is essentially Ike and Elincia's coming of age stories. If we just stick it in without actually doing anything with it, it just becomes distracting background noise that doesn't do anything to advance the story. If it does become a moment for Ike and Elincia to display their leadership, then we need to either figure out places to cut from the current script or extend the game which runs the risk of audience fatigue. PoR isn't exactly a short game as is.

Fair point on the Toha part. I take that as world building/foreshadowing that things aren't going to be peachy just because Ike saves the day, but the last third does leave some dangling threads, be that intentional cliffhangers or unintentional.

Anyway, I'm not saying PoR's story is the greatest work of fiction ever, or that it's even perfect at what it's aiming to do, but it's a pretty solid, tight conventional narrative.  RD's is the exact opposite in that it's a fairly unconventional, ambitious narrative that's a bit of a mess. Maybe this is just a pet peeve of mine showing where I feel like people have a tendency to say something that's more conventional is worse than something that's more unconventional regardless of respective quality of execution.

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13 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

That'd just be changing the narrative arc for the sake of being different. Think of it like an underdog sports movie. Scrappy team gets the snot kicked out of them over and over but through grit and perseverance they finally turn the tide and start winning. Then they face their big obstacle: The best team in the league (Ashnard/BK), and have to prove all their wins up until now were actually worth a damn when the gloves really come off.

EDIT: Didn't mean to spoiler the whole thing below, but I'm on my phone and it's being difficult, so leaving it as is. There are also arguably spoilers in the whole thing so can't hurt I suppose. Just wanted to explain the funky formatting.

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RD works because it's about relatively equal forces engaging in a conflict neither side is going to win and potentially resulting in mutual annihilation.

If you were to combine/condense the two's plots then that could work, but as is, it'd be subverting tropes for reasons that don't serve the story.

As a side note, the more I think about it, the more there's a lot of (somewhat loose) WWII/Cold War parallels in the Tellius games.

I wouldn't actively disagree, but I don't know that I can agree either, but really to each their own.

To the spoilered section, that could be interesting, but again, working it into the story has to be considered. PoR is essentially Ike and Elincia's coming of age stories. If we just stick it in without actually doing anything with it, it just becomes distracting background noise that doesn't do anything to advance the story. If it does become a moment for Ike and Elincia to display their leadership, then we need to either figure out places to cut from the current script or extend the game which runs the risk of audience fatigue. PoR isn't exactly a short game as is.

Fair point on the Toha part. I take that as world building/foreshadowing that things aren't going to be peachy just because Ike saves the day, but the last third does leave some dangling threads, be that intentional cliffhangers or unintentional.

Anyway, I'm not saying PoR's story is the greatest work of fiction ever, or that it's even perfect at what it's aiming to do, but it's a pretty solid, tight conventional narrative.  RD's is the exact opposite in that it's a fairly unconventional, ambitious narrative that's a bit of a mess. Maybe this is just a pet peeve of mine showing where I feel like people have a tendency to say something that's more conventional is worse than something that's more unconventional regardless of respective quality of execution.

Spoiler

 

Well part one of Radiant Dawn did that even better than PoR. Ashnard literally does nothing except in the final chapter aside from ordering the invasion of Crimea. BK does nothing meaningful after killing Greil. I mean sure the medallion was there but nothing came out of it except making Ashnard stronger at the very end. Jarod was far more proactive than these two so it is more satisfying finishing him off. 


 

Spoiler

RD had an inequality in forces with the whole Daein VS Apostle's Army and was the first time where the invasion of the allies, the Laguz Alliance, actually ends up getting pushed back. Unlike in PoR, Zelgius was a competent commander who got things done and changed the tide of war. Things not being so good after Ike saves the day is something that should be credited by Radiant Dawn as PoR gave the impression everything went well. 

Spoiler

Ike and Elincia's coming of age stories wasn't done as well as Micaiah and Pelleas's in RD so that's also a point in RD's favour. I mean what type of leadership decisions do these two actually make that have meaningful consequences in PoR? By that I mean decisions that don't make smarter people look like idiots. My recommendation will greatly expand on the plot since the second of half of PoR is a generic route of Daein's forces without the things that make a military campaign interesting.

Spoiler

RD's execution is better because we learn more about Crimea in part two than all of PoR. We learn more about Daein in part one than all of PoR. We learn more about the Laguz Alliance in the first half of part 3 than the entirety of PoR. Same with Begnion and Goldoa. RD actually manages to develop more characters than PoR does despite PoR being more character driven while RD is more focused on the world. 

 

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Numbers reference which spoiler the content is in.

1. Ashnard wanted a fight. His actions make perfect sense in context. He wanted to stur up as much trouble as possible before actually jumping in. The BK shows up multiple times to chase you and is off doing other things like killing Lotz and kidnapping Leanne. Beth's actions make perfect sense in context of their personalities.

2. Sephiran directly addresses that there will be issues still coming in the epilogue. Again, different narratives, and no the forces were not hugely lopsided in either side's favor, unlike Begnion, Crimea, and Gallia versus Daein. That's the point of the story. The armies are about equal.

3. Your recommendations change the story. There's a difference between improving an existing story and changing it to something you think is a better narrative. The entirety of the second half is Ike realizing that not all of Daein is evil and that Ashnard's plan involved abandoning his country. The whole point of PoR is Ike learning about the world and finding his place in it. That's exactly what it does.

4. I can't say I agree with any of that. We learn that some nobles are dissatisfied with Elincia In RD. PoR builds the entire structure of the country and royal family. We find out that not everyone supports Crimea's revival like Ike and company do. We also find out that Crimea is still a young nation that was still trying to build diplomatic relations. I'd almost argue we learn next to nothing about Daein in RD. We learn that they were oppressed and that commoners live there. That's like the most basic info necessary for the game. PoR gives us their culture, the structure of their government, and the history of the nation (ignoring RD's complete retcon). We learn 99% of everything about Laguz in PoR. What does RD tell us that PoR didn't except wolves exist too?

Begnion is about 50/50. We learn that the apostle and senate don't see eye-to-eye and that there's a lot if bitterness about the Serene massacre in PoR. We learn that the dracos left because if corruption. In RD we learn that not everyone sides with the Apostle and the backstory of the massacre.

What do we actually learn about Goldoa in RD? That's a serious question. PoR tells us that they're cut off because Dheggy doesn't want the dark god to appear again and that he was one of Ashera's heroes. I don't recall anything that RD adds to that.

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1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Numbers reference which spoiler the content is in.

 

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1. Ashnard wanted a fight. His actions make perfect sense in context. He wanted to stur up as much trouble as possible before actually jumping in. The BK shows up multiple times to chase you and is off doing other things like killing Lotz and kidnapping Leanne. Beth's actions make perfect sense in context of their personalities.

2. Sephiran directly addresses that there will be issues still coming in the epilogue. Again, different narratives, and no the forces were not hugely lopsided in either side's favor, unlike Begnion, Crimea, and Gallia versus Daein. That's the point of the story. The armies are about equal.

3. Your recommendations change the story. There's a difference between improving an existing story and changing it to something you think is a better narrative. The entirety of the second half is Ike realizing that not all of Daein is evil and that Ashnard's plan involved abandoning his country. The whole point of PoR is Ike learning about the world and finding his place in it. That's exactly what it does.

4. I can't say I agree with any of that. We learn that some nobles are dissatisfied with Elincia In RD. PoR builds the entire structure of the country and royal family. We find out that not everyone supports Crimea's revival like Ike and company do. We also find out that Crimea is still a young nation that was still trying to build diplomatic relations. I'd almost argue we learn next to nothing about Daein in RD. We learn that they were oppressed and that commoners live there. That's like the most basic info necessary for the game. PoR gives us their culture, the structure of their government, and the history of the nation (ignoring RD's complete retcon). We learn 99% of everything about Laguz in PoR. What does RD tell us that PoR didn't except wolves exist too?

Begnion is about 50/50. We learn that the apostle and senate don't see eye-to-eye and that there's a lot if bitterness about the Serene massacre in PoR. We learn that the dracos left because if corruption. In RD we learn that not everyone sides with the Apostle and the backstory of the massacre.

What do we actually learn about Goldoa in RD? That's a serious question. PoR tells us that they're cut off because Dheggy doesn't want the dark god to appear again and that he was one of Ashera's heroes. I don't recall anything that RD adds to that.

 

 

Spoiler

1. Ashnard literally does nothing in PoR, he's a poor villain, plain and simple. In Port Toha, BK doesn't just chase Ike around, he stays in a random house instead of being on the ship to prevent Ike from escaping. BK lets Ike live to get stronger in Crimea instead of being an actual menace like Jarod was. Don't know who Lotz and Beth are so that just makes PoR's plot more forgettable.  

2. Sephiran foreshadowing doesn't mean zilch since it's not part of PoR's plot and hence can't be used to say PoR does things better than RD. FE7 foreshadows Binding Blade, that doesn't mean FE7 gets credit for the things FE6 does. If the armies are about equal in strength, why does Ike win battle after battle in PoR with ease? 

3. Once again, showing that not all of Daein is not evil is done better in RD than PoR. Ashnard's plan is pretty dumb because abandoning Daein gave him no military advantage. Instead, it caused him to get surrounded on all sides. Ike learns basic stuff but nothing comes out of it. He's still the same guy he was at the beginning of PoR but more mature and a lot stronger. 

4. PoR contradicts itself when the racist Crimeans are only shown in chapter 11 but everything goes smoothly once the liberation army attacks Crimea. Radiant Dawn shows the everyday life of an occupied nation. When does PoR do this in the same amount of detail? We get to see how the religious Begnion fundamentalists persecute the Daein religious authorities which shows religious extremism. We see that Daein's fighting spirit was shaken after being occupied but they still manage to get it back. We are shown just how great the hostilities between the Laguz and Begnion are in RD more so than PoR. We are told why Deghinsea kept the branded secret and the extent of his loyalty to Ashera. We see how Kurthnaga is becoming more independent of his father compared to PoR. We see how Nasir regrets his actions in PoR and wants to become more loyal to his king. As for Begnion, we learn more about the Begnion army's chain of command which we don't in PoR. We learn that Sephiran isn't entirely loyal to Sanaki. We also learn that Lekain is a bigger mastermind than he lets on in PoR. 

 

 

Edited by Icelerate
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On 25-5-2018 at 3:05 AM, bottlegnomes said:

@Icelerate I know I mentioned it here already, but it still blows my mind how popular RD has become. Kind of nice to see it after its initially mixed reception. While I personally think it's a million times better than Fates, kind of makes you wonder about how that'll be viewed down the line.

I think part of the reason for RD's increased popularity is that a lot of its flaws have now been done worse and that the areas where RD excelled in have all been watered down in the next games.

 Micaiah got a pretty negative reception when the game first came out but I feel that people started appreciating her much more after Corrin who's pretty similar. 

RD often got praised for its worldbuilding, story and ambition and people might respect the game more now that the other games were so lacking in those aspects. Shadow dragon, Awakening and Birthright certainly were not ambitious in their storytelling or design, the worldbuilding in all those games are pretty poor and the stories were very hit and miss. Its easier to look back fondly on a game that handled this areas in a flawed way but at least tried its best. 

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24 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Ashnard's plan is pretty dumb because abandoning Daein gave him no military advantage. Instead, it caused him to get surrounded on all sides

A Daein general makes the same argument but as Ena points out that argument is made under the assumption that Ashnard is a conventional king seeking a conventional goal of world domination. He doesn't. 

Knocking Ike and his Begnion troop out of the war in Daein would actually have hindered Ashnard's goal of a global war. Gallia only fully committed to the war because of Ikes victories in Daien so if Ike was decimated the Gallian elders would still refuse to move. Ike getting defeated would probably also knock Begnion out of the war because at the end of the day the senators don't care about Crimea, it already took a lot of work just to give Ike that small army. 

Ashnard being surrounded is exactly what he wants. He wants to fight Crimeans, beasts, Hawks and Begnion soldiers all at once. He's also really hoping old Dheginsea loses his patience which was very close to happening. If he has this epic battle he gets to release his dark god. Why wouldn't he want to let Ike conquer Daein? In RD the cast even says how very close the seal on the medallion was to breaking at the time of POR. 

Quote

 In Port Toha, BK doesn't just chase Ike around, he stays in a random house instead of being on the ship to prevent Ike from escaping. BK lets Ike live to get stronger in Crimea instead of being an actual menace like Jarod was. Don't know who Lotz and Beth are so that just makes PoR's plot more forgettable. 

That's kind of in character for everyone involved. The people of Daein have two main traits. Half of them are racists but the other half are proud warriors. When the commander asks the Black Knight to sit back in order for his troops to get to have a battle its only natural for the similarly battle obsessed Black Knight to sympathize and agree to the request. Doing so also satisfies his own warrior spirit because he wants Ike to grow stronger and be a challenge to him. 

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51 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Don't know who Lotz and Beth are so that just makes PoR's plot more forgettable.  

Beth are Both Ashnard and BK, I'd assume. ;) Lotz is the Hawk who is supposed to guard Leanne when the BK abducts her. One of the best one-scene-wonders in the series.

Personally, I always found that RD's first part complements PoR's story, since it gives us a more cynic version of a similar plot, with Izuka deliberately trying to set up Pelleas and Micaiah in the same narrative as Elincia and Ike, with the goal of becoming the grey eminence behind a weak, but loved king. To me, PoR doesn't feel "complete" without that reprise - Ike's personal story does (and I dislike his role in RD), but on a bigger scale, Crimea's liberation seems too perfect to be true, and I appreciate that this is contrasted in pt.1 and addressed in pt.2 of RD.

That isn't to say that I would prefer RD's story and writing over PoR, though. Reversely, when I'm playing I also like spotting the parallels to Elincia's story and where these are either forced by Izuka or foiled by Micaiah's own agenda. Both stories work better in tandem than as standalones.

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The main thing in comparing RD to PoR that I like is that RD shows that not everything is going to end all peachy after you liberate your country. PoR felt more like a fairy tale in that regard, RD was far more realistic. Ike and Elincia take Crimea back in PoR and.... that's it. Happy ending. It's RD where you discover that Elincia is having issues, where you discover that Daein is NOT free from Begnion despite Sanaki and Sephiran's interference. That's a big part of what I like so much about RD.

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44 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

The main thing in comparing RD to PoR that I like is that RD shows that not everything is going to end all peachy after you liberate your country. PoR felt more like a fairy tale in that regard, RD was far more realistic. Ike and Elincia take Crimea back in PoR and.... that's it. Happy ending. It's RD where you discover that Elincia is having issues, where you discover that Daein is NOT free from Begnion despite Sanaki and Sephiran's interference. That's a big part of what I like so much about RD.

While that is true, RD's faults is how the situation in Crimea being Part 2 as a whole, is ultimately just filler, because it actually plays zero roles to the rest of the story, unlike the other parts. And Part 4 is forced and pushed through and fills in hefty exposition left and right and relies far too heavily on plot conveniences.

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5 hours ago, Icelerate said:
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1. Ashnard literally does nothing in PoR, he's a poor villain, plain and simple. In Port Toha, BK doesn't just chase Ike around, he stays in a random house instead of being on the ship to prevent Ike from escaping. BK lets Ike live to get stronger in Crimea instead of being an actual menace like Jarod was. Don't know who Lotz and Beth are so that just makes PoR's plot more forgettable.  

2. Sephiran foreshadowing doesn't mean zilch since it's not part of PoR's plot and hence can't be used to say PoR does things better than RD. FE7 foreshadows Binding Blade, that doesn't mean FE7 gets credit for the things FE6 does. If the armies are about equal in strength, why does Ike win battle after battle in PoR with ease? 

3. Once again, showing that not all of Daein is not evil is done better in RD than PoR. Ashnard's plan is pretty dumb because abandoning Daein gave him no military advantage. Instead, it caused him to get surrounded on all sides. Ike learns basic stuff but nothing comes out of it. He's still the same guy he was at the beginning of PoR but more mature and a lot stronger. 

4. PoR contradicts itself when the racist Crimeans are only shown in chapter 11 but everything goes smoothly once the liberation army attacks Crimea. Radiant Dawn shows the everyday life of an occupied nation. When does PoR do this in the same amount of detail? We get to see how the religious Begnion fundamentalists persecute the Daein religious authorities which shows religious extremism. We see that Daein's fighting spirit was shaken after being occupied but they still manage to get it back. We are shown just how great the hostilities between the Laguz and Begnion are in RD more so than PoR. We are told why Deghinsea kept the branded secret and the extent of his loyalty to Ashera. We see how Kurthnaga is becoming more independent of his father compared to PoR. We see how Nasir regrets his actions in PoR and wants to become more loyal to his king. As for Begnion, we learn more about the Begnion army's chain of command which we don't in PoR. We learn that Sephiran isn't entirely loyal to Sanaki. We also learn that Lekain is a bigger mastermind than he lets on in PoR. 

 

 

1. @Etrurian emperor covered that pretty nicely so I'll leave that be.

2. It's still a place that it gets brought up so that's 100% not it getting dropped like you said. I said the exact opposite of that the forces were evenly balanced in PoR.

3. More mature and a lot stronger is the entire point of the coming of age stories. And no, he's not the exact same. He's learned a ton about the continent, realized that his enemies aren't always evil like he'd assumed, learned that not all nobles are scummy, and learned to not judge people by appearance.

4. They weren't exactly going out of their way to parade Laguz down the streets of the cities of Crimea. Next to none of those things are things about the nations; they're things about the characters, which is not the point you stated. RD is an ensemble piece and so of course it makes sense that it focuses more on multiple people. PoR is Ike and Elincia's story. It focuses majorly on them. The focus of each story is different. Again, this gets back to people judging quality more on ambition than execution, which is a bit of a peeve of mine. Both are due credit, but it seems like people are quick to say an ambitious story that is flawed in its execution is superior to a very well executed story that's more conventional.

4 hours ago, ping said:

Beth are Both Ashnard and BK, I'd assume. ;)

You are indeed correct, my friend.

@Etrurian emperor Very true about its flaws being done in worse ways since then. It was ambitious, arguably the most from a narrative perspective. Even Conquest isn't exactly a huge difference in the sequence of events just the inciting incident.

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