General JRPG Topic

[Soledai]

"Those kinds of games"... Heh, it's best to go into ANY game completely neutral, let's not even single out the olden golden.

On 6/12/2018 at 2:03 PM, eclipse said:

The split world thing was interesting, and it looked good for its time.  What I didn't like was the character designs, how the story was presented (it turned into quite the clusterfuck towards the end), and a certain choice.

  Reveal hidden contents

. . .because it asked me to choose between two of the better characters in the game.  Why can't I have both of them, and kick Lloyd out?  It's not a good thing when Lloyd's my least favorite character of the bunch.

 

Spoiler

Fortunately, there was no choice for best character, and of course I refer to Regal

So clipso, did you ever dabble in Tales of Legendia(the "awful" Tales game that's actually really good)

[Armagon]

20 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

FF7 would have me more engaged if there were more SHOUTING during battle. Xenoblade Chronicles has the right idea.

That's something they could add in the Final Fantasy 7 Remake but that's never coming out because Nomura loves dicking around with development.

Some people find it annoying but i love shouting during battles. Not the "voice clips that play when you use an attack" but just characters talking to each other during battle. It's one of the reasons why Xenoblade is so great to me, because the constant talking during battles adds so much life and personality to the characters. And memes. Can't forget those.

On the subject of Final Fantasy 7, that's a game that i feel that i should play but i can never bring myself to care. Or the rest of the series for that matter. It's not that i find Final Fantasy to be bad or anything it's just, there's not really much that interests me there.

3 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Most games that are regarded as "masterpieces" tend to be good but not to live up to the hype.

Regarding PS1-era JRPGs, i think that just has to do with age. Most of them just haven't aged well. Xenogears is considered to have a masterpiece of a story (and i personally have yet to find a game that tells a better story than it) but the gameplay.......ehhh. It's decent but it clearly shows it's age and may or may not be considered "good" by today's standards.

Actually, i think in general, JRPGs are rated based on their stories rather than their gameplay. As of rule of thumb, when a JRPG is considered a masterpiece or amazing, it's usually referring to the story. I remember people telling me that Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War was "amazing" and had a "great story". They neglected to tell me that the gameplay was an abysmal slog and i found that out the hard way.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

48 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That's something they could add in the Final Fantasy 7 Remake but that's never coming out because Nomura loves dicking around with development.

You just added another year to the game's release window by having suggested any new feature. Thanks for that.

Quote

Some people find it annoying but i love shouting during battles. Not the "voice clips that play when you use an attack" but just characters talking to each other during battle. It's one of the reasons why Xenoblade is so great to me, because the constant talking during battles adds so much life and personality to the characters. And memes. Can't forget those.

I like it a lot too. But if I were a game designer I'd have a "Battle Chatter" toggle in the audio settings that cuts down on some of the more frivolous lines. Especially if said game were very long or meant to be replayed.

[Armagon]

13 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

You just added another year to the game's release window by having suggested any new feature. Thanks for that.

So that's like, what, 30 years before the game comes out now?

14 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I like it a lot too. But if I were a game designer I'd have a "Battle Chatter" toggle in the audio settings that cuts down on some of the more frivolous lines. Especially if said game were very long or meant to be replayed.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 does have an audio mixer that allows players to tone down the volume of the battle chatter, effectively muting them, which is good because i agree that games with battle chatter should have a way to tone it down for those who don't like that sort of thing.

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Soledai said:

"Those kinds of games"... Heh, it's best to go into ANY game completely neutral, let's not even single out the olden golden.

  Reveal hidden contents

Fortunately, there was no choice for best character, and of course I refer to Regal

So clipso, did you ever dabble in Tales of Legendia(the "awful" Tales game that's actually really good)

Unless it's out in English, and doesn't require me to jump through a bunch of hoops to get, the answer is "no".

Edited June 17, 2018 by eclipse

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

On the subject of Final Fantasy 7, that's a game that i feel that i should play but i can never bring myself to care. Or the rest of the series for that matter. It's not that i find Final Fantasy to be bad or anything it's just, there's not really much that interests me there.

Understandable, the biggest name won't always be appealing but you should be shooting spitballs at FF... either VIII or XI, whichever stole from XG's development. Although FF is fine to me and I like a bunch of them, plus both of the Bravely games (not FF but inspired by them and FFV in particular), I don't hold it on any pedestal.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Actually, i think in general, JRPGs are rated based on their stories rather than their gameplay. As of rule of thumb, when a JRPG is considered a masterpiece or amazing, it's usually referring to the story. I remember people telling me that Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War was "amazing" and had a "great story". They neglected to tell me that the gameplay was an abysmal slog and i found that out the hard way.

 

There are some which do live and die by gameplay though, FFV being among these, another being the entire Etrian Odyssey franchise. And I'm one of those people who judge more on gameplay grounds, plots are bound to be tripe and typical, gameplay is what for me has the greater potential to rise above the mundane than stories do.

 

And on the battle shouts thing, it depends, for me sometimes I like them, but once they saturate me I prefer them off. Much like animations- sometimes I love over the top flashiness, other times just show me the results. 

Of course you can't leave out the battle shouts in XCX, since Soul Voices are one of the few sources of healing, and they also provide various buffs. They do come with a noticeable visual indicator though.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Unless it's out in English, and doesn't require me to jump through a bunch of hoops to get, the answer is "no".

Had a PS2 release in English. I've never played it myself, but I am aware it is known more for plot than for gameplay. I think it came out after Symphonia but reverted to 2D, which resulted in some criticisms at the time, maybe not as many nowadays owing to ToS having not aged so well in gameplay.

[Soledai]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Unless it's out in English, and doesn't require me to jump through a bunch of hoops to get, the answer is "no".

Hey now, I'd have mentioned it if it weren't! Granted, it's 2D, and came before Destiny remake, which, has the combat the newer tales games replicate to an extent.

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Had a PS2 release in English. I've never played it myself, but I am aware it is known more for plot than for gameplay. I think it came out after Symphonia but reverted to 2D, which resulted in some criticisms at the time, maybe not as many nowadays owing to ToS having not aged so well in gameplay.

After Symphonia, before Abyss, iirc.

Also there is the thing where the second half of the game has virtually no voice acting fsr. But really, the meat of the game is all the first half anyway, second half is basically tying up loose ends. So I suppose no harm no foul

Also that ost

Edited June 18, 2018 by Soledai

[Slumber]

19 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

but you should be shooting spitballs at FF... either VIII or XI, whichever stole from XG's development

It was VIII.

Also a bit of IX, but IX more stole from Chrono Cross' development.

It's part of the reason a lot of the Trigger/Gears/Cross "B-team" left Square and formed Monolith Soft, because FF was Square's flagship and just about everything else suffered so that FF could get the attention Square thought it deserved. The development of Xenogears is specifically why Takahashi formed Monolith Soft, then a bunch of people left Square and went there when the same thing happened with Chrono Cross.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Slumber

[Dismissed]

I feel that FF has declined in quality since VII, I consider VI to be the last great FF. One-Winged Angel is not really impressive compared to the 18-minute 4-part masterpiece dubbed Dancing Mad, which was made using the SNES, mind you.

I think the most optimal ports of Final Fantasy 4/5/6 are the GBA versions, because the scripts were updated. Sure, they may have removed things like "son of a submariner" and other Woolseyisms, but at least they kept "You spoony bard!" and made a better FFV script than the PS1 version. Plus, no loading screens.

[Slumber]

15 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

I feel that FF has declined in quality since VII, I consider VI to be the last great FF. One-Winged Angel is not really impressive compared to the 18-minute 4-part masterpiece dubbed Dancing Mad, which was made using the SNES, mind you.

I think the most optimal ports of Final Fantasy 4/5/6 are the GBA versions, because the scripts were updated. Sure, they may have removed things like "son of a submariner" and other Woolseyisms, but at least they kept "You spoony bard!" and made a better FFV script than the PS1 version. Plus, no loading screens.

Eh. I think the decline started more with X.

VII and VIII are both flawed, but I love them dearly. IX I find to be the best of the "classic FFs", and my ONLY complaint is that the ATB in the game is a bit slow. But honestly I think it's the best FF, and while this isn't an objective fact, most people who were involved in the development of FF since day 1 consider it their best work, from Sakaguchi and Ito to Uematsu. Once Square killed themselves with The Spirits Within, that's when I notice more obvious problems started creeping in. A lot of the mainstays in the company who had been with FF since the beginning, like the general director for the franchise itself, Sakaguchi, were on the way out and were only partially handling the development of X, while newer blood like Motomu Toriyama were more involved with the development. 

A lot of people still like X, since it's a lot more character-centric(Whether you actually like those characters is a different thing altogether) and it has a very polished combat system, but that's when the cracks in FF started to become chasms to me.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Slumber

[Soledai]

Dancing Mad is so..... Blugh, until like part 3.

Anyway, the most optimal port of FF4, since it's been mentioned, is the PSP. Literally wouldn't recommend any other version if I could help it

[Interdimensional Observer]

51 minutes ago, Slumber said:

It was VIII.

Also a bit of IX, but IX more stole from Chrono Cross' development.

It's part of the reason a lot of the Trigger/Gears/Cross "B-team" left Square and formed Monolith Soft, because FF was Square's flagship and just about everything else suffered so that FF could get the attention Square thought it deserved. The development of Xenogears is specifically why Takahashi formed Monolith Soft, then a bunch of people left Square and went there when the same thing happened with Chrono Cross.

So FF stole from CC too? Wow, that game really needed everything it could get. Then again, if the game is so inherently flawed that no amount of resources to realize its creators' vision would "fix" it, maybe it was better that IX got them one could argue. Because, to paraphrase something I think you said before, Xenogears has a great idea with an already solid execution behind it in the unfinished game we got. Chrono Cross, it never gets running, always stuck in its faults with its assortment of ideas failing to congeal into a splendid sublime whole. 

 

45 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

I think the most optimal ports of Final Fantasy 4/5/6 are the GBA versions, because the scripts were updated. Sure, they may have removed things like "son of a submariner" and other Woolseyisms, but at least they kept "You spoony bard!" and made a better FFV script than the PS1 version. Plus, no loading screens.

The iOS ports kinda ruined the good looking sprites as well, the ones in those are cheap, as are the dialogue box portraits at times. And I'm not sure I like IV in 3D either, mostly because Cecil looks younger, when he like the oldest of FF's protags (albeit not by too much in practice) barring Laguna however much he counts.

 

51 minutes ago, Soledai said:

Also there is the thing where the second half of the game has virtually no voice acting fsr. But really, the meat of the game is all the first half anyway, second half is basically tying up loose ends. So I suppose no harm no foul

 

Well that sounds different. Does it avoid the run-on plot issues that plague some Tales games this way? Since the way you're describing it makes it sound like the main story is over more or less after the first half and the second is "epilogue/postgame-like". 

Although about those run-on issues, I'm not sure exactly what I'd do to fix them (for Abyss and Symphonia). I now some things I would remove, but not enough I think. I like the basic premises behind the three parts of each game

Spoiler

Part 1: Playing through a lie.

Part 2: Learning the truth and creating a solution.

Part 3 Your solution failed! Now learn some more truth and try again!

and I want to keep them, but I'm not sure how one could have less bloated length at the same time.

 

18 minutes ago, Soledai said:

Dancing Mad is so..... Blugh, until like part 3.

There is little doubt as to its ambition- a full symphony of four movements in 16-bit.

Part 1 is a solid start, using the opening theme of VI for an ominous beginning. Technically Part 2 is great, but it certainly feels like filler, necessary only for the Divine Comedy thematics that the final part runs with. Part 3, well the Toccata and Fugue rip is okay, but the real issue is that this is phase three of the battle and while you're fighting something like looks like Kefka, that you still haven't gotten to them yet! I'd call Part 2 of the battle more fillerish on the whole, but Part 3 feels more fillerish because it comes later. Part 4 might be technically the weakest musically, but the shift in the beginning of the piece to a more modern, perhaps "jazzy" beat is a way of saying "FINALLY Kefka!" and things get serious and engaging again. It also has the Kefka laugh endnote, which I adore, and dislike it whenever a rendition drops it!

This makes me think- they could have possibly benefitted from removing a phase from the battle. Maybe toss Pieta-Kefka with the suffering human figures in the Purgatory phase. Or they could make the battles shortly before the final battle, the Goddess, Demon, and... whatever the third Warring Triad status was called, the Inferno phase. And thus they abolish the Visage part of the final battle. Heck the entirety of Kefka's Tower could become symbolic of Inferno progressing into Purgatory, and just have made Paradiso the final fight.

 

@Slumber I actually just looked up the whole Spirits Within thing since you brought it up and I wanted to get an idea of how bad it was. Really? Square spent four years and lost tens of millions on making a hot realistic CGI chick? What were their priorities exactly? And why didn't this lady get into X-2? Was this a harbinger of things to come?

Edited June 18, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Dismissed]

Wait, we have a Kefka emote?

[Bubba Jones]

1 hour ago, Purple Mage said:

Wait, we have a Kefka emote?

 Wow, I see it was worth checking this thread today.  

[smgrinus]

@Emeraldfox Eternal Sonata is so underrated. It really does deserve a lot of praise. Another game that gets overlooked often also is The Lost Odyssey. 

The thousand years of dreams break me every time. 

[Modamy]

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Regarding PS1-era JRPGs, i think that just has to do with age. Most of them just haven't aged well. Xenogears is considered to have a masterpiece of a story (and i personally have yet to find a game that tells a better story than it) but the gameplay.......ehhh. It's decent but it clearly shows it's age and may or may not be considered "good" by today's standards.

Actually, i think in general, JRPGs are rated based on their stories rather than their gameplay. As of rule of thumb, when a JRPG is considered a masterpiece or amazing, it's usually referring to the story. I remember people telling me that Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War was "amazing" and had a "great story". They neglected to tell me that the gameplay was an abysmal slog and i found that out the hard way.

I haven't really played enough of Xenogears to critique its story, but I just didn't feel engaged by it. I'll eventually take another crack at it though. Although I only heard about how "amazing" Tactics story and its hard to see why it's so beloved but thus far the story hasn't wowed me. The game is fun if a little on the balance, but the stark difference in UI, mechanics and this mother frickin' camera angle which makes it hard to see most things on the map are differences from Fire Emblem that make it kind of hard to play this game.

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Understandable, the biggest name won't always be appealing but you should be shooting spitballs at FF... either VIII or XI, whichever stole from XG's development.

Yeah, i'm still upset that FF8 stole from Xenogears, because if that didn't happen, Disc 2 would've been fully realized. 

But yeah, Final Fantasy being one of the JRPG giants is one of the reasons why it doesn't interest but that's a rather small reason. Being a big name isn't a bad thing at all, some of my favorite game franchises are titans in their genres (Super Smash Bros, Zelda, Pokemon). But the reason Final Fantasy has failed to interest me is (and maybe it's because i've never played the games) because of how.....normal it feels. Being normal isn't a bad thing but there are a lot more unique JRPGs out there, that Final Fantasy feels basic in comparison. Compare it to the other two of the big three Square Enix IPs. Dragon Quest still uses the "build your own party" format, something that most JRPGs don't do. Kingdom Hearts is a crossover between Final Fantasy and Disney, and no other franchise can claim that (the actual writing of Kingdom Hearts is a mess though so of the big three Square Enix IPs, i only see myself playing Dragon Quest, though i won't deny that KH has pretty decent gameplay and if i were to play it, it'd be for the Disney characters. Like, give me a Wall-E or Ratatouille world and you've got my attention).

Me saying that Final Fantasy feels basic to me despite Xenogears, one of my favorite games ever, originally being conceived as a potential FF7 is ironic. Then again, Xenogears told a story very different compared to previous FF games at the time.

 

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

Once Square killed themselves with The Spirits Within, that's when I notice more obvious problems started creeping in.

I haven't seen The Spirits Within but i did see ProJared's video on it and he said that you could take away the Final Fantasy name from it and literally nothing would change. And he's right.

54 minutes ago, Modamy said:

I haven't really played enough of Xenogears to critique its story, but I just didn't feel engaged by it. I'll eventually take another crack at it though.

Xenogears does have a pretty slow start. It definitely starts to pick up after the Kislev arc, which is.....10 hours in? Not long, basically. The game is about 40-ish hours long if you don't do the few amount of sidequests.

______________

On the subject of Xenogears, that game absolutely deserves a remake but i hope Square Enix sells the rights to Monolith Soft because i trust Takahashi and Monolith Soft way more, and i'm sure Takahashi would be more than pleased to have another chance at telling Xenogears' story.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Armagon

[DragonFlames]

To be honest, I vastly prefer "The Otherworld" to both "Dancing Mad" and "One-Winged Angel". In fact, I don't even like "One-Winged Angel" all that much. I usually enjoy ominous chanting in my boss themes ("Serpent Devouring the Horizon", "The Azure Arbitrator", "Battle of Ordeal", "Battle of Anne 2", "Omen", "Malvasia" and "Lucia" being excellent examples (if you don't know these songs, definitely give them a listen)), but "One-Winged Angel" just doesn't resonate with me.
Same with Seymour's final battle theme (creatively titled "Seymour Battle Theme") from FFX. I know that theme is widely beloved, but it's kind of "meh" to me.

What do you guys think?

[Dismissed]

Eh, okay then. It's your opinion, so yeah.

[Slumber]

28 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

To be honest, I vastly prefer "The Otherworld" to both "Dancing Mad" and "One-Winged Angel". In fact, I don't even like "One-Winged Angel" all that much. I usually enjoy ominous chanting in my boss themes ("Serpent Devouring the Horizon", "The Azure Arbitrator", "Battle of Ordeal", "Battle of Anne 2", "Omen", "Malvasia" and "Lucia" being excellent examples (if you don't know these songs, definitely give them a listen)), but "One-Winged Angel" just doesn't resonate with me.
Same with Seymour's final battle theme (creatively titled "Seymour Battle Theme") from FFX. I know that theme is widely beloved, but it's kind of "meh" to me.

What do you guys think?

Otherworld is legitimately one of the worst tracks from the FF series in my honest opinion.

It's a bad, boring metal song with terrible growling and dumb lyrics that literally just retell the plot of the game.

I had a friend, who for years and years, was convinced Rammstein did the song, and any time I brought up how bad the song was, he'd always just go "But it's Rammstein". One day he figured out that it wasn't, and he immediately went "Yeah that song sucks."

I actually agree that OWA isn't that amazing, though, and I think Birth of a God is a way better song.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Slumber

[eclipse]

If you guys are done trashing various FF tracks/other things, please take the time to ogle at Blinded by the Light.  Thank you.

[Dismissed]

Clash on the Big Bridge is still my favorite though. I like it so much that I ripped it out of FFV Advance and inserted it into FE7 using FEBuilder.

[smgrinus]

Check a look. https://serenesforest.net/music/tearring-saga-original-soundtrack/

14. Revived Memories 40. Terror of Gerxel  4. Knights of Razelia  These, in particular, are so nice. 

@Glennstavos Final Fantasy VII Remake at this point feels like the Phantom game console.

Edited June 18, 2018 by grinus

[Tamanoir]

20 hours ago, Soledai said:

"Those kinds of games"... Heh, it's best to go into ANY game completely neutral, let's not even single out the olden golden.

  Reveal hidden contents

Fortunately, there was no choice for best character, and of course I refer to Regal

So clipso, did you ever dabble in Tales of Legendia(the "awful" Tales game that's actually really good)

The only awful Tales games is Tempest. It's really sad that it never had any proper Remake....

Legendia have a bad rep ? It's actually a pretty decent game. I should finish it at some point. The only issue I had with it as the map. It's just a succession of giant corridors.

Then apparently people don't like Wild Arms , and that game is amazing (I haven't finished it yet, granted, but it would have to try hard to makes me change my mind.)

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, i'm still upset that FF8 stole from Xenogears, because if that didn't happen, Disc 2 would've been fully realized. 

But yeah, Final Fantasy being one of the JRPG giants is one of the reasons why it doesn't interest but that's a rather small reason. Being a big name isn't a bad thing at all, some of my favorite game franchises are titans in their genres (Super Smash Bros, Zelda, Pokemon). But the reason Final Fantasy has failed to interest me is (and maybe it's because i've never played the games) because of how.....normal it feels. Being normal isn't a bad thing but there are a lot more unique JRPGs out there, that Final Fantasy feels basic in comparison. Compare it to the other two of the big three Square Enix IPs. Dragon Quest still uses the "build your own party" format, something that most JRPGs don't do. Kingdom Hearts is a crossover between Final Fantasy and Disney, and no other franchise can claim that (the actual writing of Kingdom Hearts is a mess though so of the big three Square Enix IPs, i only see myself playing Dragon Quest, though i won't deny that KH has pretty decent gameplay and if i were to play it, it'd be for the Disney characters. Like, give me a Wall-E or Ratatouille world and you've got my attention).

Me saying that Final Fantasy feels basic to me despite Xenogears, one of my favorite games ever, originally being conceived as a potential FF7 is ironic. Then again, Xenogears told a story very different compared to previous FF games at the time.

 

I haven't seen The Spirits Within but i did see ProJared's video on it and he said that you could take away the Final Fantasy name from it and literally nothing would change. And he's right.

Xenogears does have a pretty slow start. It definitely starts to pick up after the Kislev arc, which is.....10 hours in? Not long, basically. The game is about 40-ish hours long if you don't do the few amount of sidequests.

 

No mention of SaGa (or Sword of Mana for that matter , though I'm less failiar with this serie) is kinda sad...

Of all the criticism to have towards FF, calling it "normal" is the weirdest one IMO.

I'm a huge fan of DQ, but DQ is the "normal" franchsie due to its classicism (and it's not a complaint. I love teh DQ franchise.)

Sakaguchi once said that teh basis of FF was "the blue windows".

Experimenting new formulas, and trying to have the best graphism possible are the heart of FF.

13 hours ago, Soledai said:

Dancing Mad is so..... Blugh, until like part 3.

Anyway, the most optimal port of FF4, since it's been mentioned, is the PSP. Literally wouldn't recommend any other version if I could help it

PSP is pretty much the GBA version + FFTAY and a chapter to link everything together. I'm not a big fan of the "RPGMaker" looks of this version though... It's... too clean. It doesn't feel natural.

I haven't really played through the main part of FF4 on PSP though... Neither the PS verson, actually. I palyed every other version of the game though... Including J2e's "translation" of FF4, and FF2.

And TAY... I think I would have prefer it to be truly bad. Then I could just sweep it aside and forget it exist.
Because there are actually good part in this game. The relation between Yang ad his daughter, Ursula is prety good. And Palom and Leonora have a good relation too. THe battle system with the moon phases isn't the most exciting thing, but it's not bad either.

But then you have other things that are less good, or even truly bad. Who ever thought Luca was a good idea ? You could have a good character here, but hey made her a crazy Tsundere... And the game as a whole is a freaking mess.

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

If you guys are done trashing various FF tracks/other things, please take the time to ogle at Blinded by the Light.  Thank you.

Does The Skies above counts. I love At Zanarkand (the music is one of the rare thing that I like in FFX),  but as much as a masterpiece it is, this version is to awesome to miss.

And the last Battle theme of FFV is really great as well actually.

[Armagon]

13 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

No mention of SaGa (or Sword of Mana for that matter , though I'm less failiar with this serie) is kinda sad...

I haven't played either

17 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

Of all the criticism to have towards FF, calling it "normal" is the weirdest one IMO.

I'm a huge fan of DQ, but DQ is the "normal" franchsie due to its classicism (and it's not a complaint. I love teh DQ franchise.)

It's less of a criticism and more of just how i feel about the series as a whole. I will admit that it wasn't the best choice of words but basically, i don't feel anything interesting coming out of the series. It lacks that "hook" for me. FF13's sci-fi setting probably would've interested me but i hear the game is a steaming pile of garbage so....

As for Dragon Quest, the "hook" for that series is that it still follows the original JRPG formula of creating your own party from the get-go. Not many JRPGs still do that, the only ones i can think of are Etrian Odyssey and 7th Dragon (specifically the third game, i don't know about the first two).

35 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

The only awful Tales games is Tempest. It's really sad that it never had any proper Remake....

I've heard Tempest is awful but i still don't know why. All i've heard is that it's the worst Tales game, much worse than Zestiria and Dawn of a New World (the two games that i hear get shit on but still has it's fans).