General JRPG Topic

[Tryhard]

5 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I dislike fighting over taste in general. I don't really see the point in that, to be honest.

I like FFXII the most, I enjoyed my time with XIII, X was my first and I still like playing it, although Blitzball is annoying, the minigame-festival that is X-2 is annoying, XIII-2 was okay, I didn't play Lightning Returns.
That's my overall opinion on the Final Fantasy games I've played.

It's in the 'I have a burning hatred for this game' way. Squall is my pick for worst Final Fantasy character that I know of, but I'm not actually going to engage in fisticuffs over the internet.

Almost everything about that game frustrated me, to the point where someone bought me it on Steam and I never want to see it again.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

So if it's just the idea of making your own party of nameless dudes that draws you into DQ, then you might be a bit disappointed if you ever try the series out. Again, as mentioned, what makes DQ so "different" these days is how traditional of a JRPG in structure it is. It still has charming stories and fun characters, but gameplay-wise, it's as classic and normal it gets.

Oh i thought that was throughout the whole series. Still though, it's traditional story structure that's in a "figure it out yourself" kind of way is another appeal of the series for me.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Dawn of the New World is considered a, I think the word is "Escort" title, as opposed to a "Mothership" mainline installment.

Oh that's right, there is that split. It started with Tempest i believe. I never understood why Tales is split up into two sides, considering that the Mothership and Escort games are basically the same. Escort is just to identify the spin-offs but then why is New World one when it's a direct sequel to Symphonia? The only Tales games i can say are truly spin-offs are the mobile games and the Radiant Mythology games. A.k.a the crossovers.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If you want a create a your own characters game, try an Etrian Odyssey- ideally the EOIV demo on the eShop. Every 3DS EO has difficulty settings too if you think it is ever too hard.

As i don't plan on buying a 3DS game any time soon, are there any other ways i can play an Etrian Odyssey game?

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

It was only later that I found out that it [DoaNW] just might be the most hated game in the franchise and to this day, I'm asking "Why?"

I think it just has to do with nostalgia legacy. As i mentioned before, DoaNW is a direct sequel to the "Final Fantasy 7" of Tales and when stuff like this happens, people....get really pessimistic cautious during the pre-release period and then assume that the sequel is shit in comparison to the original when it releases. Does that always happen? No. DoaNW does have it's flaws but i wouldn't be surprised if, because it has the Symphonia name, people treat it more harshly. 

But i haven't played the game so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Other examples:

• Final Fantasy 7 was amazing and was the JRPG when it came out (and some would argue that it sill is). As a result, Final Fantasy 8 was a lot more divisive, simply because of 7's existence.
  • That reminds me, people are gonna have very high expectations when FF7R finally comes out in the next century. And if it's not the best game ever......oh boy. I can already see the virtual riots.
• Chrono Cross, i've......heard not many things about it. All i know is that it's not as fondly remembered as Chrono Trigger (I should play Chrono Trigger eventually).
• Pre-release, a lot of people were skeptical of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 because they kept comparing it to Xenoblade Chronicles, and Rex's infamous "TAAAAAAAAKE THIIIIIIIIIISS" in the E3 trailer only made things worse (that's not in the game btw, they rerecorded that line prior to release). Of course, the reception to the game after it launched has been very positive but the pre-release period of Xenoblade 2 was....tough.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles X more-or-less had a similar issue pre-release and even post-release but most people figured out that it was trying out something new.
• A non-RPG example, the Super Smash Bros. Melee community despised Brawl early on because it wasn't Melee and all of the popular glitches techniques like Wavedashing were gone.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Armagon

[Modamy]

8 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

It's in the 'I have a burning hatred for this game' way. Squall is my pick for worst Final Fantasy character that I know of, but I'm not actually going to engage in fisticuffs over the internet.

Almost everything about that game frustrated me, to the point where someone bought me it on Steam and I never want to see it again.

I like FFVIII for the most part, but Squall is definitely the protagonist from the series I actively disliked after finishing the game. The cast as a whole gets shoved aside in favor of the Squall/Rinoa romance which in my opinion made both characters worse since any character development they had prior just gets ignored and the only thing that matters is that they looooooove each other.

Spoiler

The crowning moment being when he attempts to abandon everyone else in Garden just so he could go off to save Rinoa.

 

[Slumber]

21 minutes ago, Modamy said:

I like FFVIII for the most part, but Squall is definitely the protagonist from the series I actively disliked after finishing the game. The cast as a whole gets shoved aside in favor of the Squall/Rinoa romance which in my opinion made both characters worse since any character development they had prior just gets ignored and the only thing that matters is that they looooooove each other.

  Reveal hidden contents

The crowning moment being when he attempts to abandon everyone else in Garden just so he could go off to save Rinoa.

 

In defense of Squall in this case

Spoiler

The end of disc 2 flatout explains that Squall has abandonment issues that he's never been able to deal with because of GFs basically giving people Alzheimer's. He had to grow up watching all of his friends get adopted off while nobody wanted him, and Rinoa's comatose state is the first time in the whole game where he has to confront the idea of somebody he cares about leaving him, which is an issue he's had since he was a child and that he's never been able to even deal with. On top of this, it's also the first time he has to admit to himself "Aw shit, I actually care about you", which is why he tells her body that everyone would laugh if they could see the state he as in over it.

Everyone else, at this time, is more or less going "We just had a war, there's a crazy sorceress, we have no idea what Esthar's deal is, and we have to settle down before we can go get Rinoa help."

Plus, Esthar is a one-road trip from Fishermans Horizon. 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Slumber

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

I guess this is my time to come out of the closet and say that Dawn of the New World was my introduction into the Tales franchise and even having played the original, this one still stands as one of my all-time favourite games. I liked the world, the characters, the story, the Marta-Emil romance was engaging enough for me to be rooting for them to get together (Marta is just a sweetheart in general and Emil was a nice change of pace from the generic heroic male lead, even if some people call him a "wuss") and the gameplay was fantastic. I played the Wii version first and bought the HD remaster - which came bundled with Symphonia - later and I really liked it both times. I'd even go so far as to say that it's better than the original Symphonia, especially in regards to gameplay.
Sure, in terms of story, Xillia, Xillia 2 and especially Berseria eventually beat it for my favourite Tales game, but I'm still really fond of it.

It was only later that I found out that it just might be the most hated game in the franchise and to this day, I'm asking "Why?"

People really liked the original cast I guess. Even though this topic has so far displayed nothing but antipathy for Lloyd. Perhaps his appeal is with less critical anime fans- those who will eat any and all cliches up. I will admit liking him though in my youth.

Zelos, were he only easier to see the serious side of, I'd like him more. Presea was once the personification of my death anxiety, and Regal is cool, but admittedly both are quite fillery in the cast of ToS, to fluff up Tethealla's group to parity with the Sylvarantians. The rest I don't feel like expounding on right now.

Emil I liked the design of, and he was fun to play as. Marta, well her personality and design are fine, plus Photon spam is very deadly. It's just the pushing herself on Emil from the get go aspect that gets me. Girls shouldn't be falling in love and trying to win a guy's heart just five minutes after meeting them for the rest of the game, toying with them maybe, but an actual serious crush is unrealistic. And oftentimes, this women have a strong promising entrance, which sadly doesn't last very long. Magnolia Arch, Rinoa Heartilly, Alicia, Marta why do these exist? Marta is admittedly a better case of this though.

For my criticisms of the monsters, the system isn't actually bad and I did have some fun with it. They aren't difficult to raise, the idea is just uninspired.

And it isn't the game's fault that Bamco didn't give the game a full budget. I'd take more of DotNW, more of the Vanguard, more of the Centurions, more of the post-ToS world, and maybe a bit less of the first game's heroes. As is the game neither caters completely to the ToS1 fans, nor totally rejects them in favor of its own existence, which might have incurred more loss than having gone either of those two extremes.

 

27 minutes ago, Armagon said:

As i don't plan on buying a 3DS game any time soon, are there any other ways i can play an Etrian Odyssey game?

Unfortunately no. But with the 3DS dying, if Atlus plans to somehow keep the series alive post-3DS, the Switch may get one. The only issue with keeping the franchise alive post-3DS is the mapmaking element that needs a second screen you can touch. That and now that EOX has been revealed, I'm afraid fans will start demanding 19 or more classes in every game from here on out.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Modamy]

21 minutes ago, Slumber said:

In defense of Squall in this case

  Reveal hidden contents

The end of disc 2 flatout explains that Squall has abandonment issues that he's never been able to deal with because of GFs basically giving people Alzheimer's. He had to grow up watching all of his friends get adopted off while nobody wanted him, and Rinoa's comatose state is the first time in the whole game where he has to confront the idea of somebody he cares about leaving him, which is an issue he's had since he was a child and that he's never been able to even deal with. On top of this, it's also the first time he has to admit to himself "Aw shit, I actually care about you", which is why he tells her body that everyone would laugh if they could see the state he as in over it.

Everyone else, at this time, is more or less going "We just had a war, there's a crazy sorceress, we have no idea what Esthar's deal is, and we have to settle down before we can go get Rinoa help."

Plus, Esthar is a one-road trip from Fishermans Horizon. 

 

Okay never thought of it from that perspective. I'm still not a huge fan of how the game sidelines the rest of the cast and their character development for a romance between two characters while also ignoring those two's relationships with other people.

[Soledai]

18 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well that sounds different. Does it avoid the run-on plot issues that plague some Tales games this way? Since the way you're describing it makes it sound like the main story is over more or less after the first half and the second is "epilogue/postgame-like". 

Although about those run-on issues, I'm not sure exactly what I'd do to fix them (for Abyss and Symphonia). I now some things I would remove, but not enough I think. I like the basic premises behind the three parts of each game

  Reveal hidden contents

Part 1: Playing through a lie.

Part 2: Learning the truth and creating a solution.

Part 3 Your solution failed! Now learn some more truth and try again!

and I want to keep them, but I'm not sure how one could have less bloated length at the same time.

 

There is little doubt as to its ambition- a full symphony of four movements in 16-bit.

Part 1 is a solid start, using the opening theme of VI for an ominous beginning. Technically Part 2 is great, but it certainly feels like filler, necessary only for the Divine Comedy thematics that the final part runs with. Part 3, well the Toccata and Fugue rip is okay, but the real issue is that this is phase three of the battle and while you're fighting something like looks like Kefka, that you still haven't gotten to them yet! I'd call Part 2 of the battle more fillerish on the whole, but Part 3 feels more fillerish because it comes later. Part 4 might be technically the weakest musically, but the shift in the beginning of the piece to a more modern, perhaps "jazzy" beat is a way of saying "FINALLY Kefka!" and things get serious and engaging again. It also has the Kefka laugh endnote, which I adore, and dislike it whenever a rendition drops it!

This makes me think- they could have possibly benefitted from removing a phase from the battle. Maybe toss Pieta-Kefka with the suffering human figures in the Purgatory phase. Or they could make the battles shortly before the final battle, the Goddess, Demon, and... whatever the third Warring Triad status was called, the Inferno phase. And thus they abolish the Visage part of the final battle. Heck the entirety of Kefka's Tower could become symbolic of Inferno progressing into Purgatory, and just have made Paradiso the final fight.

That's actually a decent way to describe it, since second half is basically tying up the loose ends, and exploring more into the backgrounds of the cast.

The simplest way to look at it is like: Main story > "epilogue/character stories/Finale". The only downside to that is you're gonna be revisiting nigh every single area in the entire game, so if there's a place one hated, you better get ready to likely see it again later on.

Also my bad, part 4 was the part I liked. I got it mixed it up with something else completely, oh my!

5 hours ago, Tamanoir said:

The only awful Tales games is Tempest. It's really sad that it never had any proper Remake....

Legendia have a bad rep ? It's actually a pretty decent game. I should finish it at some point. The only issue I had with it as the map. It's just a succession of giant corridors.

Then apparently people don't like Wild Arms , and that game is amazing (I haven't finished it yet, granted, but it would have to try hard to makes me change my mind.)

PSP is pretty much the GBA version + FFTAY and a chapter to link everything together. I'm not a big fan of the "RPGMaker" looks of this version though... It's... too clean. It doesn't feel natural.

I haven't really played through the main part of FF4 on PSP though... Neither the PS verson, actually. I palyed every other version of the game though... Including J2e's "translation" of FF4, and FF2.

And TAY... I think I would have prefer it to be truly bad. Then I could just sweep it aside and forget it exist.
Because there are actually good part in this game. The relation between Yang ad his daughter, Ursula is prety good. And Palom and Leonora have a good relation too. THe battle system with the moon phases isn't the most exciting thing, but it's not bad either.

But then you have other things that are less good, or even truly bad. Who ever thought Luca was a good idea ? You could have a good character here, but hey made her a crazy Tsundere... And the game as a whole is a freaking mess.

Yeah, Legendia got a pretty bad rep for: Being 2D, coming after Symphonia, and "hoo ha eat this". I can't ever forget "Is this game like Symphonia? No? I don't want it"

Reminds me a lot of todays """gamers""", actually, but that's neither here nor there.

Actually, "too clean" is probably the weirdest thing I've heard about it. But that's exactly why I say the PSP version is best. It's already 3... well, 2.5 games in one, and GBA version. Also yeah, TAY is pretty, uh.... well, I liked it for what it was, it gave me Golbez and Kain, so you know...... Also Maenad theme was pretty 10/10

Never heard of people disliking Wild Arms though... like that's unheard of for me.

1 hour ago, Tryhard said:

Anyone played Treasure of the Rudras? It's a FF6-like game from Square where you make your own spells from prefixes and suffixes or just random words.

It was notorious for being difficult to translate because of those mechanics. Still, game is overlooked and is great. And the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhOUDccL1i8

Well, you already know I have, but I'll answer again for the sake of the topic and say, yes. Yes I have.

I just can't remember certain plot points, like Riza, period.

39 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I think it just has to do with nostalgia legacy. As i mentioned before, DoaNW is a direct sequel to the "Final Fantasy 7" of Tales and when stuff like this happens, people....get really pessimistic cautious during the pre-release period and then assume that the sequel is shit in comparison to the original when it releases. Does that always happen? No. DoaNW does have it's flaws but i wouldn't be surprised if, because it has the Symphonia name, people treat it more harshly. 

Uhhhh. No. Dawn of the New World is just not good.

Decent combat at best. Annoying cast, even if I liked Richter. Weak plot. Pointless, fun, but still dumb monster catching feature.

But you already admitted your ignorance toward the matter, so that's fine too.

[eclipse]

10 hours ago, The Priest said:

So @Armagon stay far away from FF13, unless you want to have a taste of something that a RPG shouldn't be. In fact nothing in FF really has something that makes you feel similar to Xenoblade. I guess the Battle System from the SNES and PS era could be similar to XB1 but aside from that nope.

13 still has the best soundtrack IMO.  It's still one of my top 5  FF games, somehow.

10 hours ago, Slumber said:

I'm not a huge fan of FFX, ESPECIALLY in regards to Spira, but it's not nearly as linear as FFXIII.

FFXIII has maybe... Two/three areas where you can go more than one path, outside of Gran Pulse? Which, while Gran Pulse is big and open, it's basically a monster gauntlet where you don't do anything of consequence aside from fight progressively stronger monsters. And those areas that aren't GP basically amount to being circle shaped or square shaped, and taking a different path doesn't amount to much.

FFX has plenty of these kinds of areas, the Mi'hen Highroad specifically has routes and areas you can only get to if you're riding a chocobo, there are optional areas, and areas that branch off into multiple different areas that you have to go back to later. Some hidden areas that you can only access with the airship. And the Calm Lands has honest to God sidequests to actually do beyond fighting progressively stronger monsters, which you can also do.

It's still markedly more linear than any of the FFs prior to X, but it's less linear than XIII, where they explicitly stated that they wanted to do a linear game because of Call of Duty.

What I'd like to know is why I'd explore anything in FFX.  The encounter rate drives me bananas.

Even though both are linear games, XIII has the decency to show me where the enemies are.  I can't avoid all of them, but it's better than fighting battles randomly.

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

What I'd like to know is why I'd explore anything in FFX.  The encounter rate drives me bananas.

Even though both are linear games, XIII has the decency to show me where the enemies are.  I can't avoid all of them, but it's better than fighting battles randomly.

That's something I'll definitely give FFXIII over X. X's encounter rate is not only insanely high, the enemy variety might be the worst in the franchise, at least off the top of my head. You'll be fighting the same enemies over, and over, and over again.

[DragonFlames]

11 hours ago, Armagon said:

I think it just has to do with nostalgia legacy. As i mentioned before, DoaNW is a direct sequel to the "Final Fantasy 7" of Tales and when stuff like this happens, people....get really pessimistic cautious during the pre-release period and then assume that the sequel is shit in comparison to the original when it releases. Does that always happen? No. DoaNW does have it's flaws but i wouldn't be surprised if, because it has the Symphonia name, people treat it more harshly. 

But i haven't played the game so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay, that makes sense.

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

People really liked the original cast I guess. Even though this topic has so far displayed nothing but antipathy for Lloyd. Perhaps his appeal is with less critical anime fans- those who will eat any and all cliches up. I will admit liking him though in my youth.

Zelos, were he only easier to see the serious side of, I'd like him more. Presea was once the personification of my death anxiety, and Regal is cool, but admittedly both are quite fillery in the cast of ToS, to fluff up Tethealla's group to parity with the Sylvarantians. The rest I don't feel like expounding on right now.

Emil I liked the design of, and he was fun to play as. Marta, well her personality and design are fine, plus Photon spam is very deadly. It's just the pushing herself on Emil from the get go aspect that gets me. Girls shouldn't be falling in love and trying to win a guy's heart just five minutes after meeting them for the rest of the game, toying with them maybe, but an actual serious crush is unrealistic. And oftentimes, this women have a strong promising entrance, which sadly doesn't last very long. Magnolia Arch, Rinoa Heartilly, Alicia, Marta why do these exist? Marta is admittedly a better case of this though.

For my criticisms of the monsters, the system isn't actually bad and I did have some fun with it. They aren't difficult to raise, the idea is just uninspired.

And it isn't the game's fault that Bamco didn't give the game a full budget. I'd take more of DotNW, more of the Vanguard, more of the Centurions, more of the post-ToS world, and maybe a bit less of the first game's heroes. As is the game neither caters completely to the ToS1 fans, nor totally rejects them in favor of its own existence, which might have incurred more loss than having gone either of those two extremes.

Fair points.
I liked the monster system, I think it was fun. I was really into Pokémon at the time, so this system was right up my alley.
But I can definitely see why people would be turned off by that.

Yeah, girls pushing themselves onto guys within the first five minutes of meeting is unrealistic, I will not argue that.
I can forgive it in Marta's case because 1) "Emil" saved her two years prior, so it kind of makes sense that she would have a crush on him and 2) it created some hilarious skits and scenes throughout the earlygame.
In Magnolia's case, she thought that Yew proposed to her when he gave her the flower, so it's kind of justified? That game's story didn't take itself all too seriously, anyway and I think their romance developed nicely after the misunderstanding was cleared up. The one thing that got me about Bravely Second was that Edea was suddenly in love with Ringabel. That's a thing that never made sense to me.

As far as protagonists go, I like Lloyd well enough. He's standard, sure, but there is nothing about him that I can really say annoys me.
The rest of the Symphonia cast are fine as well. I guess I'm not really fond of Genis (who is only one letter away from being a phallic joke) and my opinion of Zelos isn't really the highest, but I really like Regal, Colette, Raine is funny with her "Ruin Mode" and Presea is among the most interesting in the cast.

My favourite Tales cast is Xillia's along with Berseria's. The dynamics between these characters is on point.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

In Magnolia's case, she thought that Yew proposed to her when he gave her the flower, so it's kind of justified? That game's story didn't take itself all too seriously, anyway and I think their romance developed nicely after the misunderstanding was cleared up. The one thing that got me about Bravely Second was that Edea was suddenly in love with Ringabel. That's a thing that never made sense to me.

 

Here I think we have an issue between the Magnolia of the BD post-ending teaser trailer (which they included in BS because they had to) and the Magnolia of Ballad of the Three Cavaliers (although some speculate this isn't actually her and it's Yoko), and the Magnolia that is in the final game. There isn't enough of the strong daring Ba'al Buster to balance Magnolia's Yew love (Yew is okay, although I could use less gravy), and one could say there aren't enough Ba'als in the main plot as well. We could've easily dropped the Hartschild country bumpkin soldiers boss which exists for no reason, and inserted a Ba'al there. A Ba'al during the Florem part of the story, say before or after the dungeon that is related to Altair (forget what it was called, but I remember it was bossless), would have helped as well.

As for Edea and Ringabel, I will agree the Vampire Castle scene where Edea's biggest weakness is discovered to be an insecurity of lacking a boyfriend is bad. As for the source of the love, I'm not quite sure on that either. I mean Ringabel does love Edea, for obvious reasons of his past, but Edea, well she doesn't seem to love the Ringabel not Ringabel at all really (I just don't want to use spoilers right now and you should know who I mean).

 

9 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

The rest of the Symphonia cast are fine as well. I guess I'm not really fond of Genis (who is only one letter away from being a phallic joke) and my opinion of Zelos isn't really the highest, but I really like Regal, Colette, Raine is funny with her "Ruin Mode" and Presea is among the most interesting in the cast.

I can't say I ever found Genis angsty/spiteful like some seem to, I actually rather like him. Although to be fair, I tend to be something of a shotacon, though I played ToS as a kid so he was rather relatable, much like Young Link was to my 4-year old self with a 64. And as for his name, well given he is supposed to be shipped with Presea, their couple name just lends itself to jokes. Although mind you, his Japanese name is Genius and Raine is Refill (guess they sound exotic to the Japanese). 

I did like how DotNW had the RegalxRaine farce, that was an interesting move. From a ToS1 perspective, the most likely of pairings, if you just had to marry everyone playable to another, would be L&C, G&P, Z&S, and since they're left with nobody else and both are mature adults, R&R. That the sequel actually chose to run with this was funny, and also done with a good explanation behind it.

I do like Presea, her concern with what is death in one Lloyd skit, as well her concern with lost time, and also loneliness, are kinda dark and depressing, but give her some real seriousness for a Tales game. Her appearance, if it should make anyone bat an eye at first glance as evidence of Japan's obsession with lolis, isn't something she ever wanted, the result of a parasitism that could have killed her, and basically shut away her soul for some years. She is a very mature character without the slightest hint of fanservice or immaturity to her. She is fairly fun to use as well with that hulking axe. Her calculations and cold logical way of speaking is a bit anime, but this is Tales, it is anime and every character has at least one totally anime personality trait, and her's is not that bad.

 

9 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

My favourite Tales cast is Xillia's along with Berseria's. The dynamics between these characters is on point.

I bought Xillia on sale, but never got to playing it. Since I don't have a Tales currently in my active gaming log, I might break it out and try it. I'm aware people find it weak and rushed compared to ToG and others, but I'll give it a shot. At the least, the characters should probably be better than ToG's dull cast.

I know the game gives a choice of whether to start with the guy or girl, who is the better choice? I'm thinking the girl for a change of Tales protags.

[Modamy]

26 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I bought Xillia on sale, but never got to playing it. Since I don't have a Tales currently in my active gaming log, I might break it out and try it. I'm aware people find it weak and rushed compared to ToG and others, but I'll give it a shot. At the least, the characters should probably be better than ToG's dull cast.

I know the game gives a choice of whether to start with the guy or girl, who is the better choice? I'm thinking the girl for a change of Tales protags.

Xillia's a pretty fun game that made an attempt to give everyone have a fun play style with their own gimmicks. You should definitely give it a shot. As for who to start with I've seen a lot of people prefer Jude (the male character). The differences between the two only results in the very beginnings, a sequence in the middle, and the lead up to the finale being different and despite that sounding okay it ultimately adds up to a 2-3 hour difference in a 60 hour game.

[DragonFlames]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Here I think we have an issue between the Magnolia of the BD post-ending teaser trailer (which they included in BS because they had to) and the Magnolia of Ballad of the Three Cavaliers (although some speculate this isn't actually her and it's Yoko), and the Magnolia that is in the final game. There isn't enough of the strong daring Ba'al Buster to balance Magnolia's Yew love (Yew is okay, although I could use less gravy), and one could say there aren't enough Ba'als in the main plot as well. We could've easily dropped the Hartschild country bumpkin soldiers boss which exists for no reason, and inserted a Ba'al there. A Ba'al during the Florem part of the story, say before or after the dungeon that is related to Altair (forget what it was called, but I remember it was bossless), would have helped as well.

I would have liked more Ba'al bosses as well, if only to hear the glorious battle theme more often.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I can't say I ever found Genis angsty/spiteful like some seem to, I actually rather like him. Although to be fair, I tend to be something of a shotacon, though I played ToS as a kid so he was rather relatable, much like Young Link was to my 4-year old self with a 64. And as for his name, well given he is supposed to be shipped with Presea, their couple name just lends itself to jokes. Although mind you, his Japanese name is Genius and Raine is Refill (guess they sound exotic to the Japanese).

I don't necessarily hate Genis, either. He's just one of those characters that exist to me. And simply existing in a game where so many characters are actually good / likable / interesting etc isn't exactly a point in their favour.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I did like how DotNW had the RegalxRaine farce, that was an interesting move. From a ToS1 perspective, the most likely of pairings, if you just had to marry everyone playable to another, would be L&C, G&P, Z&S, and since they're left with nobody else and both are mature adults, R&R. That the sequel actually chose to run with this was funny, and also done with a good explanation behind it.

That was actually one of my favourite skits from DotNW. That game had the humour down, to be sure.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I do like Presea, her concern with what is death in one Lloyd skit, as well her concern with lost time, and also loneliness, are kinda dark and depressing, but give her some real seriousness for a Tales game. Her appearance, if it should make anyone bat an eye at first glance as evidence of Japan's obsession with lolis, isn't something she ever wanted, the result of a parasitism that could have killed her, and basically shut away her soul for some years. She is a very mature character without the slightest hint of fanservice or immaturity to her. She is fairly fun to use as well with that hulking axe. Her calculations and cold logical way of speaking is a bit anime, but this is Tales, it is anime and every character has at least one totally anime personality trait, and her's is not that bad.

Agreed 100%
Although I think Tales does a fairly decent job at deconstructing some of the anime tropes.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I bought Xillia on sale, but never got to playing it. Since I don't have a Tales currently in my active gaming log, I might break it out and try it. I'm aware people find it weak and rushed compared to ToG and others, but I'll give it a shot. At the least, the characters should probably be better than ToG's dull cast.

I know the game gives a choice of whether to start with the guy or girl, who is the better choice? I'm thinking the girl for a change of Tales protags.

Oh, definitely do! Xillia is fantastic, at least in my opinion.

It actually doesn't really matter who you play as. There are some parts of the story that are different, yes, but you don't really miss out on stuff (except for one part of the story that changes dramatically for spoiler reasons). I'd still suggest just picking the character that's more appealing to you. You do get different battle themes for normal encounters, though.
The girl, Milla, is more focused on Magic and has some pretty potent spells at her disposal, but she's interesting in that she can turn her Magic into a variety of physical attacks. She also starts out really freaking overpowered.
The boy, Jude, is focused on physical attacks and hits stuff with his bare hands (and it's glorious having him punch the crap out of some of the latter bosses). He also has some potent healing.

[Tryhard]

23 hours ago, Soledai said:

Well, you already know I have, but I'll answer again for the sake of the topic and say, yes. Yes I have.

I just can't remember certain plot points, like Riza, period.

It's because Surlent is too good.

[Shiki]

On 18.6.2018 at 9:18 PM, Glennstavos said:

Don't let hate blind you from the truth!

I'm not even a FF fan (only played the remakes from the NES/SNES era minus FF2) so I can pretty much bias-free say:
FF13 sucks. Deal with it.

16 hours ago, eclipse said:

13 still has the best soundtrack IMO.  It's still one of my top 5  FF games, somehow.

That doesn't require you to play the game though. Not to mention a lot of awful games have great soundtracks (such a waste everytime that happens).

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, The Priest said:

That doesn't require you to play the game though. Not to mention a lot of awful games have great soundtracks (such a waste everytime that happens).

Part of what makes a game soundtrack work IMO is context - in this case, having the music play while you're trying not to die because WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD BOSS IDEA?!  A good soundtrack makes those fights all the better.  A bad one ruins it.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

53 minutes ago, The Priest said:

I'm not even a FF fan (only played the remakes from the NES/SNES era minus FF2) so I can pretty much bias-free say:
FF13 sucks. Deal with it.

Wasn't arguing for a moment FF13 was good but alright!

[Interdimensional Observer]

Well EOV is on sale right now, and I finally have the money to buy it. I certainly could wait for a sub $20 sale, I don't really need the game at the moment, but despite my hesitations, I think I will. But I think I won't play it right away, I need to play more of other games to story completion to expand my name pool for my characters. I like to wait until I finish a game before naming things after it, as a precaution against me later when I play deciding I don't like that character when I see more of them.

My team I decided long ago: Harbinger, Masurao, Pugilist, Botanist, Necromancer. This will be my first time without a dedicated tank unit (at least until my Necro's Wraiths can handle it if I have the points), I'll instead focus on keeping the enemy blinded, paralyzed, petrified, panicked, and bound three ways. That and the Botanist might go Merciful Healer for the most powerful of restores, since sticking to the base races means a Brouni with 3rd place Luck from what I read, not good for a Graced Poisoner. 

 

@eclipse, I do agree about the context playing an important role in a game's soundtrack. It makes me not want to listen to soundtracks from games I haven't played, since I'm not sure I'd be able to judge them properly or if when I get the game the magic would be ruined. Though sometimes you don't actually notice great pieces in their context- Unfinished Battle and Once We Part Ways from Xenoblade Chronicles being cases of these for me.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Phoenix_Kensai]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Part of what makes a game soundtrack work IMO is context - in this case, having the music play while you're trying not to die because WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD BOSS IDEA?!  A good soundtrack makes those fights all the better.  A bad one ruins it.

I definitely agree with you here. There is plenty of video game music I have enjoyed listening to without ever having played the game, but when good music is paired well with memorable gameplay or story moments, that elevates it to another level. To give an example, I didn't think much of Silver Will from Trails in the Sky when I first heard it, but now that I've finished the second game, I won't be forgetting it any time soon. (I haven't finished the third game yet, but I'm working on that.)

(...Also I actually kind of liked Final Fantasy XIII, but I did think it had some pretty big flaws. Mainly how long it took before it started being any fun. I'm not in a hurry to replay it, or convince anyone else to give it another chance.)

[Armagon]

On the subject of music, my one complain with Xenosaga Episode I is this

To clarify, there is good music in the game. The battle theme is pretty decent (i hope you love it though because you're gonna be hearing it for every. single. battle up until the final boss) and i've heard some later songs in the game such as Albedo's Theme, the Final Battle theme and the ending song, Kokoro. The final battle theme is very reminiscent of One who Bares Fangs at God from Xenogears and Kokoro is reminiscent of Small Two of Pieces, the ending theme of Xenogears.

The soundtrack of Xenosaga Episode I was composed by Mitsuda, which is great, but like, the music is just silence. At least Breath of the Wild had an excuse. I'm currently in the U-TIC organization hideout rescuing MOMO and all i hear are the alarms. There's no music so it makes dungeons and areas feel dull and lifeless. 

The lack of music is probably what's making Xenosaga Episode I my least favorite Xeno game. It's not bad game but the lack of music sticks out like a sore thumb in a series with fantastic music in every installment.

[Tamanoir]

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

Part of what makes a game soundtrack work IMO is context - in this case, having the music play while you're trying not to die because WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD BOSS IDEA?!  A good soundtrack makes those fights all the better.  A bad one ruins it.

Music can enhance a game, sure.
Though sometimes (rarely), good music can be a bad thing. FFX have a stunning musical score. Though the fact that it was for me a highly unpleasant experience, yet I still remember the music pretty well, made me hope I only listened to the music (Suteki da Ne is a fantastic song, but linjked with a terribly awful romance plot, for example.)

13 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Here I think we have an issue between the Magnolia of the BD post-ending teaser trailer (which they included in BS because they had to) and the Magnolia of Ballad of the Three Cavaliers (although some speculate this isn't actually her and it's Yoko), and the Magnolia that is in the final game. There isn't enough of the strong daring Ba'al Buster to balance Magnolia's Yew love (Yew is okay, although I could use less gravy), and one could say there aren't enough Ba'als in the main plot as well. We could've easily dropped the Hartschild country bumpkin soldiers boss which exists for no reason, and inserted a Ba'al there. A Ba'al during the Florem part of the story, say before or after the dungeon that is related to Altair (forget what it was called, but I remember it was bossless), would have helped as well.

As for Edea and Ringabel, I will agree the Vampire Castle scene where Edea's biggest weakness is discovered to be an insecurity of lacking a boyfriend is bad. As for the source of the love, I'm not quite sure on that either. I mean Ringabel does love Edea, for obvious reasons of his past, but Edea, well she doesn't seem to love the Ringabel not Ringabel at all really (I just don't want to use spoilers right now and you should know who I mean).

Love story in video games (and most medias actually...) are generally really bad anyway. I hadn't any huge issue with Magnolia and Yew in BS, so I guess it's enough to make a good one. They have at least sme kind of chemistry

But we're here for Altair and Vega's love story anyway. That one was really great. One of the bst one I saw in Video Games (and most medias actually.).
 

Spoiler

When Altair reveals why he speaks with vegetable metaphors at the end really got me. It's so incredibly sweet.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

I've started Tales of Xillia...

Spoiler

I chose Milla as the starting character. Mostly because the cinematics before they give you the choice heavily favored her, all Jude got was a hurrying student snippet. Between a woman on a mission and a struggling student, I chose the former, partly because I don't exactly like high school hijinks and feared I'd have to go through such a toilsome segment first before getting to the action. However, after I made my choice, I felt something seemed off, Jude being just plopped right there in the first minute seemed like I missed something, the story bits until everyone left the port just felt like they'd be more impactful had I started with Jude. Maybe this is why people prefer to start with him?

Still, I didn't go back and change my choice, I just accepted it. From what little I've done so far, just reached Milla's village, I'm liking her, or should I say it? Tales of Symphonia being one of my first JRPGs, I rather fond of the Summon Spirits, I think much of it has to do with me flipping a thousand times through my Brady Games ToS game guide and taking in with awe the two pages which had nothing but all the Summon Spirits' artwork on them. In gameplay I've exclusively used her, and her blending of traditional spellcasting with artes of a spellblade have been quite neat. I could change over to Arvin, but why when she is so fun? Once Jude joined, I realized from the massive HP difference that she would undergo a power loss like Jade in ToA, that and how strong the Shitenno (assuming that to be the Japanese for "the Four" here) were so far in the narrative. 

After defeating Maxwell in ToS, a skit becomes available where Sheena explains to Lloyd that Maxwell wasn't actually an old man, it only took that form for interacting with humans. It is owing to this logic being used consistently in Xillia that Milla's appearance isn't as worth as much of an eyeroll as it would be in other cases (that and she starts loaded with power- so who care if she has a lot exposed?- she is literally godly), although I could still do without that sticking up bit of green hair that can give the false impression of being a playboy bunny ear in battle when viewed from the side. This said, knowing Milla is not human and actually sexless and genderless makes me think that when the game inevitably ships Milla and Jude, it'll be a little awk-ward to me. Although there is nothing wrong with Milla loving Jude or coming to embrace a female gender for its human catalyst. Unless by some twist Milla is turned permanently into a human (wouldn't rule it out).

Speaking of Jude, from what I'm seeing of him so far, he is sweet, kind of cute, I'm looking forward to see what more comes of him. His willingness to not return to the one village and stick to following Milla went totally against what I would have expected, I was expecting he would return and Milla would sigh and follow him. The one bit where Arvin joked Jude likes older women and he didn't just burst into blushing, embarrassment and vocal denial was also not what I expected, he played things, if not with a perfectly straight face (which would be unrealistic), cooler than I'd expect for a typical JRPG male protag. I haven't played as him yet though, I thought that the healer would be more boring to play as than the mage that is Milla. So far however, despite having prioritized expanding the Lilium grid (he has only two attack artes right now as a result of my single-minded focus), he is still stuck with that one starting heal for healing. I expected he would have First Aid and play like a traditional Tales healer, the casting time free heal was different, if problematic by requiring him to get right next to the injured, it also isn't very strong either. The healing link ability he has under AI control compensates somewhat. Between his one healing arte so far and Milla's spells, I guess Xillia has decided to abolish traditional time intensive spells completely. Even ToG kept this the same.

When I said I heard ToX was weak, it was on GFAQs right after the game released. People complained it was too short (which wouldn't be the worst thing given the length Tales tend to be) and a step back from ToG with the return of TP, even though TP management hasn't been an issue so far. The Lilium Orbs are a lot less consuming than ToG's billion titles to master, which can be appreciated. The Link system replacing Eleth Burst has worked out swell for what little I've done with it (just why can't Milla use a Link Arte off of Splash and Grave?). Overall I do from what little I have played think the game is simpler than ToG, but simplicity isn't inherently bad. The playing both games on Moderate, ToG was certainly harder, things have been fairly easy but the one boss I've fought so far in ToX was strong, mostly on my AI allies who don't know how to block.

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

On 6/20/2018 at 7:19 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well EOV is on sale right now, and I finally have the money to buy it. I certainly could wait for a sub $20 sale, I don't really need the game at the moment, but despite my hesitations, I think I will. But I think I won't play it right away, I need to play more of other games to story completion to expand my name pool for my characters. I like to wait until I finish a game before naming things after it, as a precaution against me later when I play deciding I don't like that character when I see more of them.

My team I decided long ago: Harbinger, Masurao, Pugilist, Botanist, Necromancer. This will be my first time without a dedicated tank unit (at least until my Necro's Wraiths can handle it if I have the points), I'll instead focus on keeping the enemy blinded, paralyzed, petrified, panicked, and bound three ways. That and the Botanist might go Merciful Healer for the most powerful of restores, since sticking to the base races means a Brouni with 3rd place Luck from what I read, not good for a Graced Poisoner. 

 

@eclipse, I do agree about the context playing an important role in a game's soundtrack. It makes me not want to listen to soundtracks from games I haven't played, since I'm not sure I'd be able to judge them properly or if when I get the game the magic would be ruined. Though sometimes you don't actually notice great pieces in their context- Unfinished Battle and Once We Part Ways from Xenoblade Chronicles being cases of these for me.

Just adding in to that comp - Necro have 2 path. One of them is actually the most durable redirection tank in the game. Theres around 5? Or so relevant attack that a Necro cant tank indefinitely. With that and your class choice(...largely Pug) its able to access one of the early farm zone that is intended for post game which goes to show how ridiculous the raw durability is

 

Your team is actually the same one i used in my 2nd run, down to the gameplan although i run a Hybrid Brouni Rover over Necro as a Pseudo Healer and i ran GP Celes Botanist. Botanist Ailments was the big player(largely because Wilting Miasma is THAT good) but the boss that gave everyone problem actually somewhat screws them over so its not that big of a deal

 

Someone in gfaqs mentioned that 1 time tanking off Necro is pretty effective but i mainly run them as a cheesemode so idk. It could buy you some turns for early game mobs so its pretty cool. Mind Pugilist have been called "Pre Mastery incarnation of EOU2 Full Power Fafnir Knight" and Necro is one of the strongest early game class IMO(top 3 or so i think?) so your early game shouldnt be too hard

[Modamy]

@Interdimensional Observer

Spoiler

Yeah, I forgot starting the game with Milla just kind of plops her into meeting Jude whereas Jude get a bit of an introductory segment that lasts about 10-15 minutes to show how and why he first encounters Milla.

They also haven't completely abandoned longer spell casting since you haven't yet obtained your first proper mage. They've just done more to make each character unique and give them their own playstyle. So, thankfully, well never have to suffer through Genis and Raine's pathetic physical combat while they wait for an orange gel. I remember Jude being the best healer in the party when I first played the game since his healer arte was instant and an aoe so he was just able to top of most characters just by running around using as opposed to waiting for someone to charge up a huge healing spell.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 6/22/2018 at 10:53 AM, Modamy said:

They also haven't completely abandoned longer spell casting since you haven't yet obtained your first proper mage. They've just done more to make each character unique and give them their own playstyle. So, thankfully, well never have to suffer through Genis and Raine's pathetic physical combat while they wait for an orange gel. I remember Jude being the best healer in the party when I first played the game since his healer arte was instant and an aoe so he was just able to top of most characters just by running around using as opposed to waiting for someone to charge up a huge healing spell.

I do get the importance of casting speeds. I recall reading the most efficient healing spell (in terms of power and casting time) in ToA is Natalia's Heal, followed by Tear's First Aid, particularly with a Carmine Chamber (or whatever they're called). Maybe I should just change Jude's strategy in boss battles, or I could just take control of him.

As for Genis and Raine, well they began correcting that in ToA with Jade and Tear getting two basic and two advanced artes each, which appears to have carried over to Xillia (and Graces had the whole A-Artes B-Artes deal for a full physical moveset for mages). It wasn't a lot, but did so much, particularly considering ToS's Coliseum, ugh to putting Genis through there! Genis hogs practically every spell in all of Sylvarant and Tethe'alla (yet still no dark magic!), but his physical potential is painfully nonexistent.

I've played up to the point where I have all 6 PCs for the first time now.

I know it has to be 6, since that is the typical Tales number and they said earlier that is the number of Devil's Arms around. I'm happy to see them returning, I liked them in ToS, and they were okay in Abyss (but heavily nerfed in availability), I appreciate these reoccurring details. I found the first Devil's Beast and tried to fight it, everyone was OHKO'ed, obviously I need to be probably in my 30s or 40s before they become manageable at the earliest. The boss shortly before all 6 joined by the way was quite strong, owing much to the AIs not blocking or dodging and the boss's frequent unhittability.

Dungeon puzzles are virtually nonexistent, but I think I prefer that over the dreadfully easy puzzles of Graces. Dungeons themselves seem to be a bit less dungeony, I wouldn't have really considered that outdoors seaside cliffs area one, but apparently the game does. Still, the camera approach and dungeon design taken here makes things feel a little better than Graces, where the indoor portions felt so awful in layout.

Musically, the battle theme they've stuck with all this time is getting rather annoying, it just isn't that good. I know Tales in some cases changes this out two-three times per game at different points in the plot, so I'm hoping this happens soon.

In terms of plot and characters...

Spoiler

As I expected, although it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy, the game's shipping of Milla and Jude is awkward, Milla even admits to being strictly speaking genderless. 

I like the Maxwell in Milla Maxwell, which is to say I like Milla as a god, and as a god trapped in human form. I like how Milla as the Lord of Spirits is dedicated to the entire world's good, is unhesitant in their actions- the scene where they attempt to kill Nochtigal at Fort Gandala was quite dramatic- but is bound by the limitations of the human body. I liked how she said she'd sacrifice Eleze and Drieselle if need be, and she almost did, for the sake of the world. I also like Maxwell as the teacher to Jude, as the one who attempts to educate them on duties and purpose in life and all that.

What I don't care for so much is the Milla Girl Who Doesn't Know Basic Things About the World. A god, even as an aloof being who rarely interacts with humanity, should understand the necessity of eating food from the start. That was much more a move based on typical cliches where the unusual girl with special powers has to be informed by others, namely the male hero, about the most elementary of human functions and societal behaviors. I don't mind Milla becoming more in touch with humanity, that is good, only that they shouldn't be as dumb as they are initially. I didn't mind the power loss either.

And returning to the Jude-Milla romance thing, why is it necessary? Only because you have to have romance in the plot between the two main protags. I would have been fine with just the God-Mortal learning and developing from each other bond. There was no need for a cliched bit of romance, but such are anime audiences I guess, you have to have some female for the male lead to get. Think of it like this, if Milla was Milo Maxwell, would we have a sitting in the rain Jude feeding the crippled Milo scene, or the subsequent scene where he carries them on his back? I'd say no, they exist for naught but a generic hetero love story. In myth, such as that of Krishna and Radha in Hinduism, it is possible to explain allegorically love for the divine via mortal physical romance, but Xillia does not make the very unique in video gaming attempt to do that. Jude only embarrassingly loves Maxwell because it just so happened they decided to take a female form 20 years ago, if they had taken a male form, there would not be that love. It is love owing to flesh, not love owing to divinity.

I did like how Milla said Efreet values order, and that Slyph does their hair, those were neat tidbits. I wish the Four while they were around at the very beginning, that the player got to hear the voices of them. This way the Four could actually some personality and to flesh them out a bit. Since Milla does a lot of what they do for their sake and they are highly important in the Xillia world, and yet we know so little of them.

 

Moving beyond, Milla, let me get to Jude. Not playing his version of events, I'm clearly missing out on a lot of little scenes involving him, and I'm not sure how much I'm gaining with Milla in exchange. I'm not sure, since I'm not playing Jude's story so I can't compare. I'm coming to dislike the character select at the beginning, since while it does cut down on the amount of events and text I have to deal with, I don't like the incomplete picture I'm getting. And given how much of a timesink Tales games are, me having to play Xillia again for the fullest picture sounds laborious; I'd much rather have much more text in one playthrough.

Now getting to Jude himself, I've been forced to play as him now of course. But I'm reverting to Milla for the time being. I was not expecting that Ivor solo battle, but I managed to eek out a victory first try despite having only used Jude for no more than 5 battles up to that point. Ivor by the way I'm guessing is stereotypically effeminate/gay in Japan judging from his language, mannerisms, and being called a "handmaid". Jude is, with what additions to his character I have been getting, still what I said of him before- cute and sweet, he might be enough to make me eventually replay the game.

 

How about Nanami? Oh, I mean Leia. Nanami is the "sister" (not blood-related, but raised together) of the silent protag in Suikoden 2, I draw the comparison since she is perky and like Nanami practices martial arts, although Nanami used nunchakus and the Suiko2 protag tonfas. I forgot Barrier and Sharpen were Tales staples, she is the solo healer I see, without ailment removal sadly so far, nor Heal. She doesn't seem bad in gameplay, but is a bit lacking for attacks. The Item Steal aspect is good, and her extra Gald skill is also very useful, although the shops never seem to give that 3x point bonus and I've been hoarding for it to happen for a while. In character, she works well enough, just your standard female childhood friend of the male MC with some form of unnamed "condition" at some point in her life. I'll be shipping her with Jude, since I don't like JudexMilla as I've already made clear. 

 

I like Rowen, he has the daggers of Tear, a reputation with a fanciful title like Jade and his spellcasting as well. He is a good old gentlemanly character. 

Elize is your staple loli, and also the first true healer. I do like her and want to find out more of her backstory about why she was considered cursed and all, as well as why that Chef Jiao guy was shoving her in that shed. She isn't as good as Presea so far, but I'm liking her more than Anise, and certainly much more than Sophie. I don't care for Teepo though, partly because his VA is the same as Maury's in Odin Sphere, I'd rather Maury (just a cubby rabbit chef that runs a summonable restaurant- but I like him) not be besmirched by this floating plushie.

 

Alvinnnnnn! ....Sorry, I normally don't do cartoon references since I try to forget that aspect of my childhood, but I just HAD to do that here. The game is doing nothing to hide that this "mercenary", like a certain Mr. Aurion, is in fact with working for an enemy. Just get to be the open betrayal already! I hate the feeling of having a traitor in the midst and just watching things go on according to their plan, it really gets under your skin that way. It makes replaying games where there is such manipulation harder, since you know you're doing the wrong thing.

The one scene with Jude's father (by the way, I don't think Milla ever said Ivor on screen to him- hidden spying device or just happened offscreen?) finally named the group he is working for- Exodus- but I want more. I guess it's that rival country Auj Oule he is working for, since Chief Jiao is one of its members and "Chief" sounds like a clan title and Auj Oule was said to have clans earlier. I'm expecting Noctigal to die after battle with him, and then for Exodus to steal all his hard work and become the true villains by stealing the Lance of Kresnik (which I'm expecting to look a lot more menacing later on, it wasn't in the beginning), Noctigal just doesn't seem final boss worthy at all. At least Milla seems aware of Alvin's dubious true nature now if her eyes opening right after he left her clinic room means anything, better have a feeling of potential betrayal amongst the heroes than none. But it is a rule of good vs. evil battles that evil must wax before it wanes to the good. Things must get worse before they can get better.

Returning to Alvin himself, well he as a traditional physical fighter hasn't been interesting me too much in gameplay actually, I think I'd rather learn Rowen- a mage for once! But I do like him busting out his gun in the narrative. I'm interested in hearing what his reason for turning against his betrayal will be, since video games owing to the player becoming invested in the character in gameplay, need to have a stable playable roster and hence character deaths, betrayals, and other departures cannot lost forever or be that many or be without characters who substitute for the loss. Graces did get rid of Richard permanently in the main story, but he is more the exception than the rule. Hence, I assume Alvin will stay playable to the end, though if I have to fight him, it'll be fun.

Overall, the experience is staying enjoyable.