General JRPG Topic

[henrymidfields]

Sou

On 8/28/2018 at 12:00 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

[omitted]

Now as for Odin Sphere, it is a bit more RPG than Muramasa. You can craft potions, cook food, killing enemies gives phozons for leveling your abilities, and leveling lets you learn more skills. On Hard and the unlockable Hero difficulty, the game moves more towards pure action with enemy strength (HP is stuck at level 1 value on Hero- so OHKO Mode), nonetheless getting a few levels is never a bad idea if killing a boss is taking too long. You can adjust the difficulty outside of battle at any time, with Easy being easy, Normal good for the average joe, and Hard decent for Action genre lovers.

You also have two separate modes in the Leifthrasir edition- the one available on the Vita. The default mode (Refined Mode IRRC) is a revamped style of gameplay, for the original PS2 version was heavily criticized as being a slog. This new style is built on Muramasa's combat, and it is an action-heavier joy to play.

And then you have Classic Mode, which uses separate save files from Refined. Classic tells the same story as Refined, but is the original style of gameplay from the PS2 release. It requires you to craft and use items frequently, since whereas items are an optional thing to your character's arsenal of attacks on Refined, on Classic everyone has fewer attacks and they drain the Pow gauge, so throwing potions at enemies really helps. The result is that Classic is more RPG than Refined in its ways. I've heard it called a chore, but you can still adjust difficulty at any time I believe, and Easy should make it better if you think so.

Besides being beautiful to look at, Odin Sphere has a beautiful plot, to me at least. Five characters each with their own separate story (and style of fighting), yet they're intertwined with each other to varying extents, and the game borrows rather well a blend of Norse and fairytale inspirations. Once you've seen a story moment, it's viewable at any time in the Attic (just pick up the cat), where they are divided according to character and listed chronically, so you know exactly when everything happens with everyone in the big picture of things.

[omission]

...Sorry if that was longer than what you expected, I just really like Odin Sphere.

No, thank you, that sounds like a good summary of what to expect. I might take up that game, then.

[Slumber]

So how 'bout that Dragon Quest XI? I'm pretty stoked. Got it pre-loaded on Steam. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

Anyone else here played Octopath Traveler? Kinda surprised this thread seems silent on it, given that it's apparently one of the better-selling JRPGs in recent years. I haven't played it yet, but I watched my wife play through it and it seems really solid. Battle system has shades of Bravely in it, but moves away from the Dragon Quest-style round-based combat in favour of a different, but still engaging, turn-based system which focuses around hitting elemental weaknesses to break (stun + take extra damage) enemies at the right time. Writing... well, as the name suggests it's about 8 different small stories, which range from endearing at worst to being interesting takes at best. Nice music too. Seems very solid overall, and that's speaking as someone who lacks the romantic attachment to sprite graphics which seems common among the game's target audience.

Another great game I've played recently is Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle, but that certainly pushes the definition of a JRPG. Still, labels don't matter; it's good! Highly recommended to fans of Fire Emblem and/or XCOM; liking the irreverent style of other Mario RPGs is also a plus but not necessary to enjoy the game.

[Slumber]

31 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Anyone else here played Octopath Traveler? Kinda surprised this thread seems silent on it, given that it's apparently one of the better-selling JRPGs in recent years. I haven't played it yet, but I watched my wife play through it and it seems really solid. Battle system has shades of Bravely in it, but moves away from the Dragon Quest-style round-based combat in favour of a different, but still engaging, turn-based system which focuses around hitting elemental weaknesses to break (stun + take extra damage) enemies at the right time. Writing... well, as the name suggests it's about 8 different small stories, which range from endearing at worst to being interesting takes at best. Nice music too. Seems very solid overall, and that's speaking as someone who lacks the romantic attachment to sprite graphics which seems common among the game's target audience.

Another great game I've played recently is Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle, but that certainly pushes the definition of a JRPG. Still, labels don't matter; it's good! Highly recommended to fans of Fire Emblem and/or XCOM; liking the irreverent style of other Mario RPGs is also a plus but not necessary to enjoy the game.

It's silent on Octopath because there's a dedicated thread to it.

[DragonFlames]

During my month-long break from anything internet, I dipped my head into the Atelier games. Since I liked playing as Sophie in Warriors All-Stars, I tried Atelier Sophie (not just because Sophie was in it and I knew her from WAS, but also because it was on sale that day). It's a really, really cute game, I'd say would be the best way to describe it. The story is sweet, if minimalistic, the graphics are really cool and the music and atmosphere are peaceful and give off the vibe of a friendly and inviting world. The alchemy stuff is also a really interesting mechanic, probably one of if not the most interesting and intuitive crafting mechanic I have ever seen in any game I've played (for shame, Minecraft, for shame). I think it's a nice change of pace from all the other doom and gloom JRPGs out there.

Sorry if I was gushing there for a bit, I just really fell in love with the game, even though it's supposed to be the worst one in the franchise according to some reviews and fans. If this one's the worst, I can only imagine how good the others must be.

Edited September 5, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Armagon]

Should probably post this while it's still fresh in my mind but last month, i was able to get into the Hyperdimension Neptunia series. I played Rebirth 1 and 2 and i really enjoyed them so i'll go over my thoughts

Hyperdimension Neptunia Rebirth 1 and 2 (i can put both of them in one group as they are pretty similar)

What i liked

• The characters and dialouge are absolutely the highlight of the game and the series. Character personalites are wacky and the dialouge is funny and self-aware, given that the series is a parody of the game industry (the world is even called Gameindsutri)
• Adding onto that, you know that gif of Captain America saying "i understood that reference"? Yeah, that gif is basically me with the series. It was really fun spotting all the references in the game. For example, the character Falcom references the Trails series and i was like "hey, i know that reference"
• While the majority of the soundtrack is average, there are some good songs there and i'm especially fond of the OPs.
• The Remake System, exclusive to the Rebirth games, is a fun mechanic that allows you to mess with the game's mechanics. You can buff or nerf enemies, increase EXP, add new dungeons and characters, etc. It allows for each playthrough to be unique.
• The plots are dumb but because it's a parody and it doesn't take itself seriously (unless you go the Conquest route in Rebirth 2, which i never did), i was able to get genuine enjoyment out of them. Rebirth 2's story in particular was one massive joke about game pirating and emulation and it hit close to home because i'm guilty of it.
• Best girls are IF and Noire. There's a lot of best girl material here though. Compa, Blanc, Neptune, Nepgear and 5pb, just to name a few.
• Combat is really fun.
• Ravetech New World, the OP to Rebirth 3 is the best Neptunia OP. Notice that this was mostly about Rebirth 1 and 2 and while a lot of it can apply to Rebirth 3 as well, i'll go over why i haven't talked about it later.
• The games are short, allowing for easy pick up and play.

What i didn't like

• Dungeon design is very lazy.  A lot of dungeons are reused across all three Rebirth games for some reason
• Some bosses passively heal themselves enough every turn to where it's impossible to kill them if you are low-leveled.
• While rare, i experienced a bug in all three Rebirth games where the enemy doesn't take their turn, resulting in a softlock. I save at every time i can because of this. Really surprised Idea Factory never patched this out.
• This is more of a nitpick but the game teaches you about EXE Skills (really powerful skills that may break the game because of how good they are) are good 30 levels before anyone actually learns any of them. In Rebirth 1, Vert already has an EXE Skill when she joins but everyone else doesn't get one until Lv.45-ish.

Conclusion

If we're strictly looking at JRPGs, the Neptunia series is my third favorite JRPG, with Trails being in 2nd place and Xeno being in first. I had plans to pick up Super Neptunia RPG which was supposed to come out this Fall but the localization got pushed back to Spring 2019 (even though the game is being co-developed by a Canadian studio so how does the English version get pushed back). I suppose it is good that it got pushed back though because that way it doesn't clash with XC2: Torna ~ The Golden Country.

That said, Neptunia isn't for everyone. It is very anime. There's a lot of fanservice. I love this series but if you can't get into it, i can totally understand why.

 

With all that out of the way, let's go over why i didn't specifically talk about Rebirth 3 a lot. Turns out, i don't have my PC anymore. Which means my playthrough of Neptunia Rebirth 3, Xenosaga II, Baten Kaitos and Trails of Azure all got put on hold until further notice. In the case of Rebirth 3 and Xenosaga II, i was near the end so i'll have to start all over. In the case of Baten Kaitos and Trails of Azure, i wasn't that far in so starting over isn't a problem.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Armagon

[Interdimensional Observer]

On DQXI, I'm stuck waiting for the Switch version, so I'm not too eager about it. But I do like Dragon Quest, for all its simplicity and tradition I do quietly enjoy.

 

I've been playing Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse, I'm up to 4/8s Moon, it is good, if not amazing. I like the premise of deviating from the standard alignment system of Law-Neutral-Chaos, and I'm fine with the new villains and Dagda. 

My qualms (spoilered to not forcibly weigh down people with the negativity of them):

Spoiler

My issue is the new allies and the art direction for mostly everybody else. They decided to try giving the new cast some color as opposed to being drab like the Nocturne or Strange Journey groups, I like that. But they just clash so much with SMT's general thematics, they too lighthearted typical "anime" in appearance and personality. Asahi just doesn't belong, and her minor daddy complaining at the start was so not SMT. Navarre is an arrogance annoyance, albeit a down-on-their-luck one, with cartoony facial expressions that shouldn't be in SMT. Gaston is another real bother, Hallelujah has no purpose, Tako reminds me of BD's Artemia, except I don't feel SMT has a place for her. Or at the least, I'd want Tako's personality changed a bit from speaking the bare minimum of words, and the art direction which designed her changed. Nozomi who does belong, would be better with an art direction change too.

I liked the cast of Devil Survivor, and perhaps Asahi could work there, she certainly could with the Devil Survivor 2 crew (I like DS2, but it certainly isn't overly serious). But in a mainline SMT? No, they're too warm and too childish. DS1 managed to maintain the classic SMT bleak atmosphere, whilst allowing for more popular anime influences (to not deny that invariably, SMT is "anime"- but more of certain kinds than others). SMTIVA is much sloppier at doing this.

 

The choice to divorce Phys and Gun skills from sharing the same stat was a bad idea, since now Magic targets 6 weaknesses using just 1 stat with the changes to Hama and Mudo. Phys itself needs to bifurcated into Slash and Blunt, since Etrian Odyssey has been doing this for some time and it makes no sense sword slashes and blunt forces belong in the same damage type. A third element would certainly help the common fault of physical attackers- lack of diversity and weakness targeting. Needless to say, my Nanashi is a magically inclined one.

As for the demons, well Krishna works, Dagda is cool, and Lucifer got a much needed redesign from the multiverse-horrific abomination that was his SMTIV self. Odin, o-dear! Give me back purple Odin, his present design is poor, and I think Merkabah got hit as well.

Gameplay-wise, I'm enjoying things on War difficulty. Some Game Overs at the beginning, but things have gradually gotten better and GOs have become very rare. I like the demon affinities for making individual demons a little less perfect and more unique, and I like the new partner mechanic. The gameplay is that which will keep me playing to the end, no matter what the characters end up being. That ailments are sorta reliable in this game is good too, not EO broken, but good outside of bosses if you can't sweep them dead. And I'm definitely feeling overleveled, at 67 presently, but leveling seems so easy in this game.

 

And as a gift, someone has preordered a physical copy of the Xenoblade Chronicles 2 prequel for I've discovered, I thank them.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[DragonFlames]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I've been playing Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse, I'm up to 4/8s Moon, it is good, if not amazing. I like the premise of deviating from the standard alignment system of Law-Neutral-Chaos, and I'm fine with the new villains and Dagda. 

My qualms (spoilered to not forcibly weigh down people with the negativity of them):

  Reveal hidden contents

My issue is the new allies and the art direction for mostly everybody else. They decided to try giving the new cast some color as opposed to being drab like the Nocturne or Strange Journey groups, I like that. But they just clash so much with SMT's general thematics, they too lighthearted typical "anime" in appearance and personality. Asahi just doesn't belong, and her minor daddy complaining at the start was so not SMT. Navarre is an arrogance annoyance, albeit a down-on-their-luck one, with cartoony facial expressions that shouldn't be in SMT. Gaston is another real bother, Hallelujah has no purpose, Tako reminds me of BD's Artemia, except I don't feel SMT has a place for her. Or at the least, I'd want Tako's personality changed a bit from speaking the bare minimum of words, and the art direction which designed her changed. Nozomi who does belong, would be better with an art direction change too.

I liked the cast of Devil Survivor, and perhaps Asahi could work there, she certainly could with the Devil Survivor 2 crew (I like DS2, but it certainly isn't overly serious). But in a mainline SMT? No, they're too warm and too childish. DS1 managed to maintain the classic SMT bleak atmosphere, whilst allowing for more popular anime influences (to not deny that invariably, SMT is "anime"- but more of certain kinds than others). SMTIVA is much sloppier at doing this.

 

The choice to divorce Phys and Gun skills from sharing the same stat was a bad idea, since now Magic targets 6 weaknesses using just 1 stat with the changes to Hama and Mudo. Phys itself needs to bifurcated into Slash and Blunt, since Etrian Odyssey has been doing this for some time and it makes no sense sword slashes and blunt forces belong in the same damage type. A third element would certainly help the common fault of physical attackers- lack of diversity and weakness targeting. Needless to say, my Nanashi is a magically inclined one.

As for the demons, well Krishna works, Dagda is cool, and Lucifer got a much needed redesign from the multiverse-horrific abomination that was his SMTIV self. Odin, o-dear! Give me back purple Odin, his present design is poor, and I think Merkabah got hit as well.

Gameplay-wise, I'm enjoying things on War difficulty. Some Game Overs at the beginning, but things have gradually gotten better and GOs have become very rare. I like the demon affinities for making individual demons a little less perfect and more unique, and I like the new partner mechanic. The gameplay is that which will keep me playing to the end, no matter what the characters end up being. That ailments are sorta reliable in this game is good too, not EO broken, but good outside of bosses if you can't sweep them dead. And I'm definitely feeling overleveled, at 67 presently, but leveling seems so easy in this game.

I actually prefer Odin's apocalypse design because they incorporated one of the ravens the "real" Odin always had with him.
I liked Apocalypse, too. It was a fun ride (I'm not TOO hardcore of an SMT fan, as I've only played this, IV and Strange Journey Redux, the last of which I wasn't impressed with), but there is one part of the game that kinda killed the replay value for me. I won't say which part that is for spoiler-y reasons, so rest assured.
I agree with most everything you said in the spoilers, though. The only character I could really get behind was Toki (and Isabeau, I guess, but she's a returnee from the previous game) and that's mostly for her voice actress.

Fun fact: I actually played Apocalypse BEFORE the original SMTIV.

12 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

During my month-long break from anything internet, I dipped my head into the Atelier games. Since I liked playing as Sophie in Warriors All-Stars, I tried Atelier Sophie (not just because Sophie was in it and I knew her from WAS, but also because it was on sale that day). It's a really, really cute game, I'd say would be the best way to describe it. The story is sweet, if minimalistic, the graphics are really cool and the music and atmosphere are peaceful and give off the vibe of a friendly and inviting world. The alchemy stuff is also a really interesting mechanic, probably one of if not the most interesting and intuitive crafting mechanic I have ever seen in any game I've played (for shame, Minecraft, for shame). I think it's a nice change of pace from all the other doom and gloom JRPGs out there.

Sorry if I was gushing there for a bit, I just really fell in love with the game, even though it's supposed to be the worst one in the franchise according to some reviews and fans. If this one's the worst, I can only imagine how good the others must be.

I guess I should probably rephrase this into something more constructive.
Atelier Sophie was a fun game and really cute. Here's what I liked:

• The characters are varied and interesting, all with their own quirks and developments that made for fun puzzles and character arcs, all beautifully integrated into the alchemy gameplay, as quest progression usually involves making new stuff with alchemy.
• I find it a stroke of genius that overlevelling does pretty much nothing for you. The level cap is 20, anyway, but your main damage output during battles is through the items you create via alchemy. From accessories to bombs to stuff to help you while exploring, you'll spend a lot of time in front of that ol' pot in your room, which is a good thing, because...
• ... combining materials through alchemy and seeing which abilities and qualities the items you create come out with is easily the main draw of this game and one of the main reasons I love it so much. The alchemy system looks complicated at first (as you mix and match colours and shapes on grids not unlike Tetris for maximum effect), but it is all really accessible and intuitive. You get a small tutorial, but it is more of a learning by doing affair.
• The protagonist Sophie. Full stop.
• The music fits the mood and atmosphere incredibly well. You even have different battle themes depending on how strong you are compared to your enemies.
• The overall atmosphere of the game feels really peaceful and inviting. As I've said before, this is what sets it apart from other, darker JRPGs (like Nights of Azure or SMT), which I appreciate.
• The humour is on point (I fondly remember one moment where Sophie tries to turn her talking book into a person by throwing it and random stuff into her pot. It's hysterical.

I did have a few gripes with the game, too, though they are mostly nitpicks, I think:

• Early on, there are some weird discrepancies in the difficulty of certain battles. You're running around in an area where you can pretty much one-hit kill everything that moves - even with your standard attack - and then all of a sudden an enemy pops up that sends you packing. Had this happen to me quite often early on and I remember getting a bit miffed, especially because you lose about 75% of the items you collected during that trip and if you needed any of them for a quest, well... you're SOL, I guess.
• Some of the alchemy recipes can get tricky / cryptic to unlock if you don't know what you're doing
• In the same vein some monster slaying quests - all of which have a time limit attached to them - require you to beat a certain enemy that may or may not appear in an area you haven't unlocked yet and you'd be none the wiser
• The game's pace picks up toward the end. And when I say it picks up, I mean it goes from 0 to 100 in no time at all. It was a slow burn in the beginning and middle and I thought "it would be nice if it continued like this". Hooo boy, was I ever wrong about that. While I didn't really mind it that much, it was nevertheless a bit jarring.
• There are moments where characters just repeat phrases at each other, like
  Character A: "Items can be created through alchemy!"
  Character B: "Alchemy can be used to create items."
  Character C: "Did you know that you can create items using alchemy?"
  Again, nothing major, just something I noticed.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I liked Apocalypse, too. It was a fun ride (I'm not TOO hardcore of an SMT fan, as I've only played this, IV and Strange Journey Redux, the last of which I wasn't impressed with)

You haven't tried the Devil Survivors? You should, they're fairly cheap and quite good. You have grid-based movement like in Fire Emblem, but when you engage combat it converts to the usual SMT format. Neither is too difficult, and both have multiple endings of course. The first game is a bit darker and more "Survivor" in feeling, with some decent characters too.

The stakes remain high in DS2, but humor pervades the game too and is overall lighter. My old avi was the Anguished One of DS2. I haven't played the Record Breaker version of DS2, but it does add a second, independent and shorter storyline where the Septentrion are replaced by the Triangulum, and Yamato Hotsuin gets a sister named Miyako.

Don't watch the DS2 anime though, from what I've heard, it gets excessively bloody.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Been playing Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light. A quaint RPG that serves as a love letter to Final Fantasies 1, 3 and 5, which I have also played. Sort of a Bravely Default 0.5, and the critically acclaimed series was supposed to be a sequel to this game from what I've heard. I have to say though it feels like more of a lecture than a loving tribute. All of the music and sound effects could probably be reproduced on a Famicom sound chip.

And even those original games its based on didn't have such restrictive rules. In order to run from battles, you need somebody in your party to play as a specific class. And even that flee command isn't guaranteed to work until you level up that class. If somebody goes down in battle, you can bring them back with a phoenix down but random battles are so wildly unbalanced in terms of enemy strength that one party member going down is a sure sign you're about to reload your last save since there's no run command to fall back on when you're out of items, and ability power. Each character has 15 inventory slots for items, equipment and magic spells. Each individual potion is taking up a slot, and your four equipment slots and average three spell books take up half of your available space already. Yes you can switch classes on the fly outside of battle, but such customization can only really be intuitive if you could carry more equipment options with you. You can drop items off in storage but I feel like too much of my time in this game has just been managing my inventory like a resident evil game. It also doesn't help party members leave and re-enter your party at the drop of a hat Final Fantasy 4 style - taking their inventories of important gear with them. 

Currently I'm walled by a task where I must steal a particular item for an NPC. But this enemy has like a 20% encounter rate - and remember I can't run from battles. Furthermore this enemy is very strong and will kill my one character in three hits if my health is topped off. Steal has about a 25% success rate. And both successes I've gotten thus far have given me a potion instead of the item I'm looking for. Despite this trainwreck of an experience, the game has been relatively inoffensive thus far. And I have in fact spent more hours with this game than I have with Bravely Default. I guess it's the games that actually ask something of me that capture my interest most.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Glennstavos

[DragonFlames]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You haven't tried the Devil Survivors? You should, they're fairly cheap and quite good. You have grid-based movement like in Fire Emblem, but when you engage combat it converts to the usual SMT format. Neither is too difficult, and both have multiple endings of course. The first game is a bit darker and more "Survivor" in feeling, with some decent characters too.

The stakes remain high in DS2, but humor pervades the game too and is overall lighter. My old avi was the Anguished One of DS2. I haven't played the Record Breaker version of DS2, but it does add a second, independent and shorter storyline where the Septentrion are replaced by the Triangulum, and Yamato Hotsuin gets a sister named Miyako.

Don't watch the DS2 anime though, from what I've heard, it gets excessively bloody.

Alright, I will definitely give those a shot. It sounds interesting, having grid-based movement with SMT combat.

I don't mind a little blood in my anime, but when it gets too excessive, I tend to take it less seriously. It's not that it's gross (which it is), but I always find it somewhat hilarious when a single person bleeds gallons worth of blood in the span of a few seconds from only a single stab wound.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'd call Devil Survivor the "Fire Emblem of the Shin Megami Tensei" series gameplaywise. This is the reason, why I prefer them over Persona or any main series parts.

DeSu 2 is fantastic in any regard: character presentation, plot and gameplay. It feels way more completed than 1 to me.

Also it be can started with either part since they're unrelated to each other. 

Technically the DeSu2 anime has been the only one I've watched partly yet. ... One of the reasons why I don't watch anime.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Alright, I will definitely give those a shot. It sounds interesting, having grid-based movement with SMT combat.

If you're willing to go digital, well Atlus does often put them on sale for a week. Even if the 3DS is nearly dead, Atlus will be supporting it aboard until early next year when they release Etrian Odyssey Nexus and Persona Q2: New Cinema Labyrinth, so the sales may continue until then.

 

Apparently, in an interview about SMTV, Atlus said this too, not that it means anything definite:

“We’re always looking into doing a port or remake of Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne Maniax. I’m thinking about aiming for an opportunity.”

http://www.siliconera.com/2018/08/27/shin-megami-tensei-v-producer-shares-a-development-update/

HD Nocturne on Switch would be great. The NPC cast is so very weak, but it is the game that invented the Press Turn system, and it has very good dungeon design, maybe a little excessive at moments of course, but overall brilliant. It isn't perfect, but I'm sure they could work out a bunch of the gameplay kinks now.

Not sure whether they'd bring back Dante from Devil May Cry, the whole reason Capcom permitted it in the first place was because Kaneko did some DMC3 work for them. Atlus's own Raidou Kuzunoha replaced Dante later in a third version of Nocturne, but Raidou isn't in the least relevant now. Maybe they could swap Raidou for Flynn, Nanashi, or SMTV Protag for relevancy?

Edited September 6, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[DragonFlames]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If you're willing to go digital, well Atlus does often put them on sale for a week. Even if the 3DS is nearly dead, Atlus will be supporting it aboard until early next year when they release Etrian Odyssey Nexus and Persona Q2: New Cinema Labyrinth, so the sales may continue until then.

As I well hope they do, because the 3DS is a great system.
The last game I bought physically was Okami HD and that was during a time where I already swapped to digital purchase, since the games I'd like to play are pretty hard to find in retail stores. And it saves a lot of space on the shelves, too and lord knows I need a lot of space on those shelves ('cause, you know, literature major and all).

Edited September 6, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Slumber]

So Dragon Quest XI... Came out 5 days ago, and I've put about 40 hours into it. So it basically replaced my full time job now that I'm back in school for a bit.

I have some... feelings on some things, but I'm clearly still enjoying it. Been a while since I sunk so much time into a game like this.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Slumber

[Sword_of_Dusk]

On 9/8/2018 at 2:55 AM, Slumber said:

So Dragon Quest XI... Came out 5 days ago, and I've put about 40 hours into it. So it basically replaced my full time job now that I'm back in school for a bit.

I have some... feelings on some things, but I'm clearly still enjoying it. Been a while since I sunk so much time into a game like this.

You seem to be the only one talking about DQXI around here. Kinda sad, but at least there's some mention of it here.

So, what are these feelings you have? Though if you have any specific complaints about plot beyond Hotto, hold off on that, as I just got to Gallopolis. 

[Slumber]

47 minutes ago, Sword_of_Dusk said:

You seem to be the only one talking about DQXI around here. Kinda sad, but at least there's some mention of it here.

So, what are these feelings you have? Though if you have any specific complaints about plot beyond Hotto, hold off on that, as I just got to Gallopolis. 

I'd probably never complain about a Dragon Quest story. None of them besides probably 7 have very lofty aspirations, and they never try to be Final Fantasy or anything. Just simple, straight forward "Good guy goes on quest to defeat evil", and all the smaller, individual stories rarely fumble and are pretty much always charming.

My issues are more with the structure of the gameplay and the world. I'll probably compile them when I finish the game. Again, still really enjoying it, but some things are a bit disappointing to me.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Slumber

[Corrobin]

I dunno, one thing I always look forward to in DQ games is the puns, 11 seems to have it pretty good in the pun department.

[Slumber]

38 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

I dunno, one thing I always look forward to in DQ games is the puns, 11 seems to have it pretty good in the pun department.

"Sham Hatwitch" nearly had me dying the first time I saw it. The puns are arguably stronger than ever.

Also, one thing I'll say, Sylvando is basically Big Gay Al from South Park, and he's amazing.

[henrymidfields]

On 9/6/2018 at 12:04 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Don't watch the DS2 anime though, from what I've heard, it gets excessively bloody.

Umm, really? I've just bought the DVD copy of the anime, and in the Australian classifications it's rated M (for Mature Audiences - guardian accompaniment recommended for those under 15 years old), which is also the rating for the more recent Fire Emblem and/or Zelda games. Anything showing significant amount of blood/gore is usually rated MA+ (which makes the accompaniment mandatory) - which most Grand Theft Auto games and Bayonetta get. Granted, I only watched the first 2 episodes, but they don't look that much violent either...

Edited September 11, 2018 by henrymidfields

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Umm, really? I've just bought the DVD copy of the anime, and in the Australian classifications it's rated M (for Mature Audiences - guardian accompaniment recommended for those under 15 years old), which is also the rating for the more recent Fire Emblem and/or Zelda games. Anything showing significant amount of blood/gore is usually rated MA+ (which makes the accompaniment mandatory) - which most Grand Theft Auto games and Bayonetta get. Granted, I only watched the first 2 episodes, but they don't look that much violent either...

Well... SPOILERS!

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Everybody but the MC dies sooner or later. That is what I meant.

Sure the ending revives them all, but that only means so much when most have been dead for several episodes.

 

This deviates massively from the actual game. At most, only 3 people can die pre-Saturday in DS2: Keita or Makoto, Jungo or Io, Joe or Otome (you're forced to save the other of these "or"s if the first dies- this is done for gameplay reasons). And then come Saturday and Sunday, up to 2 more people can die: the Anguished One and Ronaldo or Yamato, or Yamato and Ronaldo. 

That is only 5 of the 13 non-MC PCs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More to the point, the anime does not align faithfully with the game itself, with the spoilers bit being a severe case of deviation. I get there will be artistic license, but apparently it goes wayyyy too far. Do not judge the game based on the anime.

To bring up one instance that is still spoilers, but less spoilery:

Spoiler

The final boss make a literally two-seconds appearance, no actual battle with it occurs in the anime. And this isn't a totally random final boss like FE7's Fire Dragon, the final boss is an actual rational, powerful agent regarding what happens in DS2, and without whom the anime ending can't happen.

 

[henrymidfields]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well... SPOILERS!

More to the point, the anime does not align faithfully with the game itself, with the spoilers bit being a severe case of deviation. I get there will be artistic license, but apparently it goes wayyyy too far. Do not judge the game based on the anime.

To bring up one instance that is still spoilers, but less spoilery:

  Hide contents

The final boss make a literally two-seconds appearance, no actual battle with it occurs in the anime. And this isn't a totally random final boss like FE7's Fire Dragon, the final boss is an actual rational, powerful agent regarding what happens in DS2, and without whom the anime ending can't happen.

 

I got you now. The story got totally butchered in the anime. I'll keep that in mind as I go through the episodes and eventually the game.

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On a different note, I'm currently doing my second run of Persona 4 Golden, and I have some new observations. Initially I didn't like Naoto all that much compared to the other PC social links, or as I prefer to say it, their shared personal stories. For a game that seem to focus on deconstructed character traits, and particularly on the emphasis of everyday people from RL!Japan, and how they struggle with their personalities and their place in society, Naoto seemed to not have show these characteristics very well.

Spoiler

For example, Yosuke's story/Social Link is of him adjusting to rural life, and dealing with a community that is hostile, through no fault of his own, and losing what he thought to be the one who he thought he could live for. Chie is trying to come to terms with her lack of feminity - or the type of gender favored in Japanese society. Yukiko is coming to terms with both having a say in her life, and inheriting her parents' inn, which still is common in Japan. Kanji is facing his fears of rejections for not conforming to the gender norms - which is still quite rigid in Japan. And so on. Yet, Naoto's SL seem to focus more of her joy in detective work, with struggle with the gender roles vs career only comes out occasionally. An additional nitpick was that when she mentioned that she desired to become the tough and cool detectives in the stories, all of them being male; wait so she didn't read anything from Miss Marple?? (I was also going to point out Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries from Australia, but I would be surprised if anyone in Japan know them even now, let alone back in 2011. It would have been nice if Yu's possible responses in Naoto's SL referenced that, though.)

Through the second run, however, I have just realised that Naoto's story probably lies more within the main story. Firstly, Ageism and seniority is still a big thing over in Japan, and may end up being bigger with the increasingly aging population. Yet, being young did not stop Naoto and Yu with the rest of the Investigation Team from holding a corrupt detective accountable, and bringing him to justice. Perhaps the real moral of the story for Naoto is also from the main story:
 

Seniors are not infalliable (whether intellectually or morally), and should be questioned where their morality, professional skills are compromised. On the flip side, younger people have the right to be heard and to provide their narrative.

Furthermore, in Naoto's case, this is compounded with her being a career-driven female in a country that still has one of the highest gender gaps. (*) Yet Uncle and Detective Ryotaro took Naoto's skill seriously (based on various conversations from both Ryotaro and Naoto's), re-opened up the case against the rest of the police department's sentiments, and eventually chose to believe her over his more immediate colleague during the start of the ultimate confrontation in early December.

While questioning the (mainly male-centric) seniority is something shown more explicitly in Persona 5, I feel that to a minor extent it also exists in Persona 4 through the above plot.

I still have problems with Naoto's lack of characteristics that graced the others. For example, it would have been better if her Social Link showed her struggles to be heard in the Inaba Police Department amongst the male-centric police force, and Uncle Ryotaro's struggle to convince his colleagues to take Naoto more seriously. That would be a much better deconstruction of her archetype as an ace - where being a skilled genius does not always help when one has to fight against vested interests and prejudices.

(*) As late as 2017, Japan ranked below 110th in the Global Gender Gap Index, which is behind many countries, and on par with the Middle East in general. Pretty shocking for what is supposed to be the longest first world democracy outside of the western world. Most western countries (Europe, USA, Australia/NZ) seemed to have scored at least around 50th and above. This article from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation has an interactive map showing the ranks, and has the link that can direct you to the homepage of the GGGI report.

 

But at least now I feel that I appreciate her better as someone who defies the senior-and-male-centric society in Japan, something that is the right direction and message that Atlus took the game's resident tomboy with.

[Res]

I’m 25 hrs into DQ11 and I’m loving it. Actually the first time I’ve bothered to play anything on the PS4 (couldn’t wait for the Switch version!).

I’d be curious to know of your complaints, @Slumber The only real complaint I have so far is how awfully repetitive the music is. There’s so few tracks!

Sylvando is the standout character by far.

Not only are the puns still great (and did you notice the Cobblestone inhabitants all have geology related names?) but the Hotto residents’ haikus and the mermaids’ rhyming couplets are really well done!

[DragonFlames]

12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

More to the point, the anime does not align faithfully with the game itself, with the spoilers bit being a severe case of deviation. I get there will be artistic license, but apparently it goes wayyyy too far. Do not judge the game based on the anime.

To bring up one instance that is still spoilers, but less spoilery:

  Reveal hidden contents

The final boss make a literally two-seconds appearance, no actual battle with it occurs in the anime. And this isn't a totally random final boss like FE7's Fire Dragon, the final boss is an actual rational, powerful agent regarding what happens in DS2, and without whom the anime ending can't happen.

 

Wow, that sucks. That really sucks.
I made it a habit not to judge games based on their anime (Tales of Zestiria the X was arguably better than the actual game, though, and the Tales of the Abyss anime was solid enough), so there's no danger for me there.

On another note, has anybody here ever heard of a game called Shining Resonance Refrain before? It apparently came out in July and I played a demo of it yesterday. It looked pretty interesting, like Stella Glow meets 7th Dragon with Ys gameplay. I'm thinking about getting the game proper in the near future.

[Slumber]

10 hours ago, Res said:

I’m 25 hrs into DQ11 and I’m loving it. Actually the first time I’ve bothered to play anything on the PS4 (couldn’t wait for the Switch version!).

I’d be curious to know of your complaints, @Slumber The only real complaint I have so far is how awfully repetitive the music is. There’s so few tracks!

Sylvando is the standout character by far.

Not only are the puns still great (and did you notice the Cobblestone inhabitants all have geology related names?) but the Hotto residents’ haikus and the mermaids’ rhyming couplets are really well done!

As a quick snippet of what I'll be getting at:

1. The overworld being so linear, segmented and guided is really a turn off. I've always loved Dragon Quest games because they felt like a big adventure. Often you only have vague ideas of where to go, and figuring everything out is up to you. Sometimes you come across areas that you aren't ready for early in the game that you can come back to later, or there are multiple places you can go to at once and you can complete the games in different orders. The only ones where this didn't really happen in were 7, which had narrative reasons for this, and 9, which was structured in more or less the same way as 11, which I gave some slack for for being a handheld game. The addition of a mini map with quest objectives all over it is part of the problem, and it's hard to "organically" explore to world, which is part of what made past DQ games feel like adventures. 
2. The combat is pretty restrictive early in the game. The ways you can build your characters is pretty limited, and it's really difficult to get a grasp on what roles characters can fill. Your Monk character will be a better Healer than your Healer, your all-around Support character will be a better Rogue than your Rogue beyond the ability to steal, your all-around offensive character will make a better physical offensive character than your character that's strictly limited to physical offense... Stuff like that. The only character that is really clearly defined up until a certain point is your Mage.
3. There's just a ton of shit in the game that doesn't really add anything. The ability to move in combat is more of a nuisance than not, and it doesn't change anything about the gameplay for the better. Once you realize you can turn it off, and by doing so find out that the free-roaming in combat actually gets rid of the cinematic camera angles in combat? It's baffling that it's included, and that it's the default option. Jumping, similarly, is very underutilized, and the fact that most vertical traversal in the game is done with button prompts only makes it more confusing. It really only amounts to finding a small handful of chests in cities, and those are rare. 
4. The included Draconian Challenges are fine for the most part, but they REALLY didn't play test the Super-Strong Enemies challenge. There are some insane difficulty spikes in the game, due to how stats work in the game and that this challenge equates to a flat 30% stat buff to enemies. Some bosses cross stat thresholds that they clearly weren't supposed to cross at those specific points in the game(Random bosses that narratively aren't a big deal getting up to six turns for every player turn by mid-game). 

I will say, by and large, the second half of the game addresses a lot of the issues I pointed out in points 1 and 2. But I still think that these things aren't super great that you have to be about 40+ hours for it to really start feeling like a Dragon Quest game. To me, at least. 3 and 4 continue to be problems throughout the game, though. As does the unfortunate music. 

This game makes me hope that Square-Enix remakes the rest of DQ3 with this level of polish, though.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Slumber