General JRPG Topic

[Soledai]

Gba phantasia lol

Never quite had a problem with semi-auto. That never inhibits my ability to combo and more importantly, kill things. Semi or manual, I'm doing the same thing, so it made no difference to me

[Modamy]

It’s more that I hate control being taken away from me period. If I’m too far away from an enemy and hit the attack button I’d prefer to just whiff as opposed to my character starting to run over and attacking automatically. It’s part of the reason why I find the first two star ocean games pretty boring to play even though I do like the many optional recruitable party members in the game.

[Interdimensional Observer]

41 minutes ago, Soledai said:

Gba phantasia lol

So darned laggy in battle, for what? Crappy voice acting? And to think this is the only official English version.

 

After delaying for weeks, just by not playing it for no real reason whatsoever. I finished Digital Devil Saga 2.

Overall I've definitely enjoyed it. I do think it was a bit rushed though, the plot has a bunch of great ideas and characters, it just needed to give a bit more time to them. I like the game is more show and not tell, and it doesn't dwell on certain points, but some things are underdeveloped, and not all tell is bad. I heard the writer might have caught ill during development and had to have someone else finish the plot, which is a shame. The very end is where you can see more of the rushing.

On the final dungeon:

Spoiler

The final dungeon was a bit different, I expected it to be, well more like what first comes into mind when you think of the location of the final dungeon. But it had rather generous large karma terminals, that helped. I did overhaul my stratagem for random battles though, with so few enemies having weaknesses to exploit, which made devouring foes much more annoying/difficult; although the cost of the last sets of Mantras is so astronomical, getting AP is the very least of your worries. I gave Seraph Megido + Mind Charge + the ring that lets the wearer get two consecutive actions, most of the -dynes and the one Nerve spell, Item Find, and the Chakra Elixir to keep up the MP.  The other characters were practically worthless compared to Seraph. 

On bosses not the final:

Spoiler

The mandatory bosses, save for the very last one, were just kinda there and did nothing at all really, shame- I was expecting more from Indrajit/Meganada. Of the four optional bosses I could fight, well after defeating all but the final boss, I went and did Jack Frost, after grinding enough to encounter JF three more times to complete the quiz, with help from a guide, since there is no way I’d keep my sanity trying to complete the 100 questions without it. As boss, yeah JF is a joke, the quiz is the real challenge.

Speaking of having to grind random encounters to find the right enemy to unlock a super boss, why on earth did Atlus think it was okay to give the items needed to unlock two of them, who are necessary for unlocking the third, who on Hard is necessary for unlocking the fourth and final, and not make the item drops at all guaranteed? This said, when I got both items, after defeating Jack Frost, I decided to try my hand at Vishnu, thinking they would be the harder one of the two. Tried twice, first ended quickly, second went on for a while, but Cielo got reverted and ultimately that multi-hit almighty physical skill just destroyed me eventually. Null Critical lying and only reducing the chances of being criticaled is really mean, since one critical, and now you’re faced with another party nuke. If Null Critical actually blocked them 100% of the time, well with sufficient Debilitate and Charge, the chances of dying would be much slimmer. 

So failing Vishnu, I went to try Shiva instead. I will say I LOVE Shiva’s idle animation, introduces himself as Nataraja and he IS the Lord of Dance with that beat! Cielo, if only you could go from Dyaus to Shiva. As a boss, my first not-serious attempt just to check what he had ended in me being wiped out via physical attacks. The one time I fought him seriously, Psycho Rage + Dekunda + Power Charge + Mind Charge + Mind Eye + Ragnarok = DEAD. That is what lategame SMT bosses turn into when Salvation/Mediarahan means anything short of death or ailments is no threat to the player. And mind you, I was on Normal, with all my characters 80-78 level-wise, Hard would make this even worse.

On the final boss (SPOILERS duh!):

Spoiler

So being unable to tackle these two, and thus denied Seth, I turned to fighting the final boss, to get the story I had dragged out over with. I can return to the nightmarish superbosses later. Being as highly leveled as I was, with Debilitate and Charge and Mediarahan, plus Mind Charged Reincarnate for damage, the battle still kept me on my toes, but wasn’t too hard. The big issue is when the boss starts bringing out Absolute Zero, which I guess is drop to -4 for you, and +4 for it. I had Dekaja stones, but Dekunda doesn’t exist in such a form, and made recovering from AZ take longer. The boss was surprisingly inaccurate for a 90 Agility Seraph, Gale and Cielo, whiffing a lot, but it could deal some heavy damage over its 5 turns and from time to time some ailments.

I also quickly understood the final boss’s design when I saw it, owing to some knowledge about Hinduism. Despite being called Brahmin, the design drew from Shiva mythos. It’s a giant pillar with five faces in a primordial void-like world. The pillar is a linga- the common non-humanoid representation of Shiva. In one myth, Vishnu and Brahma argue who is greater of themselves and then see a great linga appear. One god travels for a very long time (something beyond human comprehension) down to find the bottom of the linga, and the other goes to find the top. Eventually they both realize there is no beginning nor end to the linga- that it is infinite- that it is Shiva, and that Shiva is truly the greatest deity of all. The giant brain thing I don't think has anything to do with Hinduism or Buddhism by the way, just a more modern touch.

The faces are because in some humanoid depictions of Shiva, as well as on some more ancient lingas, Shiva is depicted with five faces/head, or three, sometimes four, but three always implies a fourth, and a fourth implies a fifth. Each face/head represents a different aspect of the divine, the fifth being the divine beyond human comprehension. That the final boss ended with this when I expected another form isn’t bad or anything, it put up a good fight, I just thought it’d get past the non-almighty element use, or at least mix them all up in one phase.

On the ending:

Spoiler

As for the ending, I understood the realization that God is Seraph and Seraph is God. It’s Hinduism and Buddhism, more Hinduism, at work here. In Hinduism, you have the Brahmin- the ultimate reality of the world, and the Atma- the individual self. The relationship between the Brahmin and the Atma has long been debated in Hinduism, and one common interpretation is the two are the same thing, one only need realize the unity of the two to attain Moksha- liberation, enlightenment. That the final boss is call Brahmin, not Brahma as the more common spelling for the deity is, may have been chosen with this in mind. Thus, if God is the Brahmin and the Atma is part of the Brahmin, then everyone is God.

The “one word” I didn’t get, which I assume was the Shan-ti they later showed by itself twice repeated on the screen, apparently means either inner calm, or forgiveness. Either works, they both appropriate for the ending and emphasizing what the world needs.

I didn’t exactly get why Schroedinger was identical to Seraph in their true form. Was Schroedinger simply mirroring Seraph, or is the being who has attained Moksha take an ideal, universal form and that is the form of Seraph? Seraph combines the masculine and feminine, another perfect union of the divine, and has the Atma mark on their head as a third eye. So I’m inclined to say Seraph is the perfected form. 

As for why Schroedinger exists and why they do as they do, I’m not sure. To use Buddhism, they’re either a Buddha or Bodhisattva who want to help the rest of humanity escape the cycle of suffering- which they basically do say outright in the area right before the final fight. I’m not sure if Hinduism has a similar concept, but I do know that Krishna in the Mahabharata takes form in the human world to teach Arjuna his meaning in life and the nature of the world.

The reincarnating of everyone was a happy move, which I’m fine with since the prospect of leaving everyone dead was rather sad. That the opening is in fact from the ending is neat, and not ruining the surprise, at least in the beginning, since you have zero idea what the opening is when the game starts. And only later, once you understand what everyone is and if you remember Fred’s name was said in the opening, does the possibility it is post-ending scene emerge. Fortunately, I forgot that and never seriously contemplated the opening.

I would make a number of tweaks if I could to DDS2, but let’s not focus on the negative. I’d give the game, with DDS1, you need both to understand the story, an 8.5, maybe not absolutely necessary if you like JRPGs, but certainly for SMT fans, and the plot in the second is quite good, and the characters in both are decent enough, and the music is solid.

 

Now, I think I'll take up FFIX on my PS3, and once I kill Ganon in Breath of the Wild (I should be plenty set even without the Divine Beasts slain if people can just speedrun it naked and with just a handful of weapons; again, put off on this game for no reason), I can turn my Switch into an XC2 machine.

[eclipse]

2 hours ago, Soledai said:

Gba phantasia lol

You mean "eclipse's introduction to the Tales world"?  Because it was.

[Rapier]

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

You mean "eclipse's introduction to the Tales world"?  Because it was.

I'm... sorry.

I mean, my introduction to Kingdom Hearts was Chain of Memories (GBA), and the game that actually got me into KH was Days, so...

[eclipse]

14 minutes ago, Rapier said:

I'm... sorry.

I mean, my introduction to Kingdom Hearts was Chain of Memories (GBA), and the game that actually got me into KH was Days, so...

I LIKED Chain of Memories, too. ;/

[Modamy]

I recently decided to start messing around with Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions again after several failed attempts to play the game and I'm having an easier time. I've got a better grasp on the mechanics, but not entirely and the clunky and kind of slow feeling of this game constantly annoys me. I want to finish this game since people call it one of the best JRPGs. I'd like to know how you guys feel about it and maybe hear some advise from those who played it.

[eclipse]

43 minutes ago, Modamy said:

I recently decided to start messing around with Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions again after several failed attempts to play the game and I'm having an easier time. I've got a better grasp on the mechanics, but not entirely and the clunky and kind of slow feeling of this game constantly annoys me. I want to finish this game since people call it one of the best JRPGs. I'd like to know how you guys feel about it and maybe hear some advise from those who played it.

I will keep my comments to the gameplay.

The camera issues can be annoying, as can the friendly-fire aspect of spells.  However, each class has its own strengths and weaknesses, and learning how to leverage them makes things a little more interesting.  The special characters are pretty powerful (well, most of them), and a couple outright break the game in half.  There's a lot of freedom in the game when it comes to how you want to tackle a problem.  Save often, because every now and then the encounters reach Bastard Mode.

Here's commentary on the story.

[Soledai]

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

You mean "eclipse's introduction to the Tales world"?  Because it was.

eclipse's introduction was pretty rough.

Dazzle me, what was your next tales and how big of a leap was it in terms of gameplay?

[Armagon]

@Interdimensional Observer moving our Baten Kaitos discussion from the backlog thread to here to where it's more on-topic

53 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Also, you have some rice right? Just one of these is fine. Once it ages, you'll have the first component of the healing item.

I do not. Not sure what you mean by aging though. Is it like the picture cards where you have to wait 10 minutes for them to develop?

Quote

Do note it'll take up until before the final dungeon to complete them both. Also, some enemies randomly drop constellation fragments, you'll have to kill them until you get the piece, fortunately you can't choose to not pick them up when they drop, and none of the enemies are permanently missable. I can provide a list of these monsters, names without locations shouldn't be an issue, right? Other pieces are tucked away in treasure chests, dropped by bosses, found by examining things and talking to people in towns, and a few simple and pretty easy anytime fetch quests. 

A list of the monster names would be nice. Locations are fine too as long as they aren't too spoilery.

Quote

There is one piece you might be able to permanently miss though. Basically in Diadem, after the hoopla is over there, but before leaving for the next island, you'll want to volunteer doing some cleanup. Complete all of this, it isn't hard or long at all, and you'll get the constellation as a reward from talking to the head of the cleanup. If you don't do the cleanup, the next time you return to Diadem, you'll be able to give the guy who would've give you the constellation a small flower or something. He might reward you with the constellation, but he might not, since there are a couple other rewards the cleanup gives and the guy will randomly only give you one of them from the flower.

 

Alright, i'll keep an eye out.

Oh by the way, in order to Class Up, you need a Class Up Magnus and i already did that with Kalas but i wasn't actually aware that i had one of those until i Class'd Up. I'm guessing you get Class Up Magnuses from bosses?

[Interdimensional Observer]

32 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Alright, i'll keep an eye out.

Oh by the way, in order to Class Up, you need a Class Up Magnus and i already did that with Kalas but i wasn't actually aware that i had one of those until i Class'd Up. I'm guessing you get Class Up Magnuses from bosses?

Sometimes they're found in treasure chests too, but none obscurely located thank goodness. I can provide when they become available if you update me on your progress, just to make sure you don't miss them. 

They tend to have fancy names. And typically a loose theme of sorts to them. Xelha's are all bird statues. Check and see the Gathering (the compendium of all possible attainable Magnus) and see if they are located in their own distinct section, I would expect they would be. If you guess you have a Class Up Magnus, check to see if it is with the rest. Or just read the card's description- it should say it I believe.

32 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I do not. Not sure what you mean by aging though. Is it like the picture cards where you have to wait 10 minutes for them to develop?

Just one card of Uncooked Rice, a store might sell it for cheap, it is easy to get.

As for aging, it is much like photography, except it causes things to become a totally different Magnus. Take some Bananas for instance, with time, they'll age into Rotten Bananas- not good since you can't heal with them anymore then, you throw them at enemies for damage. And those Flame Swords, if you don't see them anymore but find more Short Swords in your inventory- they lost their flame. The Light Saber is the only other attack Magnus that degrades, and both weapons allude to the degeneration in their descriptions.

But not all aging is a bad thing. Pow Milk with time becomes Pow Yogurt, and then Pow Cheese- each is needed for sidequests. Grapes become the stronger healing Deluxe Sweet Wine which becomes Vinegar later (which is too sour for healing- it's water/ice damage). 

Peaches go in a different direction, with a couple hours, they become a decent attack anyone can use. if you're willing to farm these (one location has baddies that drop them) and leave the game running overnight a couple times, then with tens upon tens of hours, well you need never fear death I will say. A normal playthrough sans intentional time wasting might never see the final product though, or only at the very end. The longest time anything takes to age by a very very very long shot is the Shampoo, which becomes Splendid Hair, this requires over like 200 hours of playtime. It doesn't do anything, just unlocks the Sound Test in full, including the last tracks you can't normally listen to there since they only play in and post-final boss- when you lose access to the Sound Test. Of course this is the age of YouTube, so don't bother with this.

Aging can be annoying with the healing items often being perishable food, but it takes several hours for it to degrade, and again, not all of them do. 

 

I'll get to the constellation fragments tomorrow or something.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Soledai said:

eclipse's introduction was pretty rough.

Dazzle me, what was your next tales and how big of a leap was it in terms of gameplay?

Symphonia was next.  I liked Phantasia better.

[Armagon]

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Sometimes they're found in treasure chests too, but none obscurely located thank goodness. I can provide when they become available if you update me on your progress, just to make sure you don't miss them. 

Yeah, i'd like that so i don't miss any. Speaking of progress, i just landed on the second island. 

Also, i don't know what i did but i had a Mineral Water Magnus but then i did something and it changed into a special magic attack, when normally, Mineral Water just has a 66% chance of healing poison. I don't know what i did, and i haven't been able to replicate it. All i know is that i did something.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 hours ago, eclipse said:

Symphonia was next.  I liked Phantasia better.

Well Symphonia was the first to make the transition to 3D, it was in retrospect a rough transition and it hasn't held up so well. And narratively, Symphonia has a lot more, but simplicity can be a good and better thing, particularly if you find Symphonia too cliched and too long.

 

50 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Also, i don't know what i did but i had a Mineral Water Magnus but then i did something and it changed into a special magic attack, when normally, Mineral Water just has a 66% chance of healing poison. I don't know what i did, and i haven't been able to replicate it. All i know is that i did something.

 

That was a Spirit Attack. Randomly, one of Kalas's Magnus when attacking may become one- there is one for each non-neutral element. This is you the Guardian Spirit giving Kalas some of your power, resulting in a powerful, cool looking attack with nice voice quip, its power scaling appropriately to wherever you're at. Later, it's probably worth forsaking one if it messes up a combo, but as long as it isn't a boss or anything, go ahead and fire it off, it's still quite strong and awesome.

 

59 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, i'd like that so i don't miss any. Speaking of progress, i just landed on the second island. 

Well for the second island, Kalas's Class Level 3 is in a chest in the first dungeon, an easy to find one. Gibari's 3 is obtained after the second boss of the island. Xelha's is after the first boss of the island, you'll need to push a remnant of the boss a few times to make a path accessible to obtain it. You can then collect that boss remnant as a Quest Magnus, but the little sidequest that uses it doesn't appear until very late in the game, and as I don't know whether the remnant will respawn if you throw it away, so if you want to complete the sidequest and not have a "wasted" Quest Magnus slot all that time, don't pick it up, even if you examine it, you can choose not to collect it with no issue.

The third island will bring everyone up to Class Level 4, except for the one PC who doesn't join there, they'll get it from the boss of the first dungeon after they join. Kalas's 5th level item comes very early, the rest won't get theirs' until significantly later, one coming a little too late if you ask me. The 6th and final Class Level, when 9 cards on offense will become a thing (but you'll only have 5 seconds to pick your first card or lose your turn), isn't available until just before the final dungeon, all of which are located in the areas for everyone's character sidequest.

By the way, I messed up slightly with that Diadem forced game of numbers thing- the good guy values are: 4, 2, 1, and 0.5, no 3. 

 

12 hours ago, Armagon said:

A list of the monster names would be nice. Locations are fine too as long as they aren't too spoilery.

Quote

The monsters are, in order of appearance:

Shawra- the bat thing that is the first enemy type encountered in the game- drops Vela

Albireo- droopy bird thing- drops Triangulum

Blood Leaf- recolored bat thing- drops Ursa Major

Filler- recolored bat thing- drops Cepheus

Ray Moo- recolored droopy bird thing- drops Hercules

Flobo- another recolored droopy bird thing- drops Delphinus

Badwin- this is the last of them, another bat- drops Canis Major

See the pattern? I never noticed it before. "If it has wings and flies, the stars it hides." If you need a way to remember this.

 

And two more bits about the photography, I forgot that monsters also have their own lighting level, add to the area's to get the base value before factoring the adjustments you need to make. Not that the game actually tells you the exact lighting levels of anything- again, don't stress photography too much. Also, you can use a camera on a PC, you'll get a boring cheap photo 95% of the time, the remaining 5% gives a rare photo with an optimal value of 10000 Gold. And, for people who want to complete the Gathering, there is one headache-inducing moment, which I won't get into.

[eclipse]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well Symphonia was the first to make the transition to 3D, it was in retrospect a rough transition and it hasn't held up so well. And narratively, Symphonia has a lot more, but simplicity can be a good and better thing, particularly if you find Symphonia too cliched and too long.

The split world thing was interesting, and it looked good for its time.  What I didn't like was the character designs, how the story was presented (it turned into quite the clusterfuck towards the end), and a certain choice.

Spoiler

. . .because it asked me to choose between two of the better characters in the game.  Why can't I have both of them, and kick Lloyd out?  It's not a good thing when Lloyd's my least favorite character of the bunch.

 

[henrymidfields]

All right, I've finished P4G, and I can say that I enjoyed almost every moment of it. A lot of feels to the game, and the first game in ages that I nearly cried, especially with Nanako. I'm just going to put my verdict here. Spoilers ahoy!

Spoiler

Story/Characters

The story made me wonder why I didn't take this up sooner. Not only did it have the perfect sense of lightheartedness and darkness for my first Persona game, but I say it is an excellent example of how one doesn't need dark and edgy portrayals of a well-thought out story with thought-provoking themes.

Firstly, the media portrayal of the serial killings and Nanatame reminded me a number of cases how the media was able to manipulate me. For example, back in 2006, there was the Aneha Architectural Office scandal where the main architect made false structural engineering calculations - and keep in mind that this was in Japan where this is serious business for obvious reasons. I remember that the media portrayal back then focused on the architect's supposed lavish lifestyles, and talked about how his buildings would collapse even in a fairly minor earthquake - except I found out later on that he committed the fraud in order to pay for his sick wife, and that the buildings he designed actually withstood the 2011 earthquake. While there was no doubt that the architect committed a offence, this reminded me that even facts as published by the media can end up being exaggerated, or otherwise abused. It also reminded me that we tend to see suspects as "guilty until (and sometimes even when) proven innocent" - something where is prevalent in Japan, but I'm sure is also common in other First-World societies.

Secondly, it was a "Power of Friendship" story that actually felt strong and beautiful. Sure, Yu and his friends all teamed up and saved the day, but they still had to work for it, and there was a chance that it could have totally backfired (read: bad ending with an implied broken fellowship), especially during December when they initially suspected Nanatame as the serial killer, and everyone's feelings were running high due to a related drama with Yu's cousin. In addition, they also need to work together to build each other's trust, in which the most obvious being Yu's social link with his friends. There were doubts and personal dramas among the group (though perhaps not to the same level as P5 or P3), not least because they were human beings with actual flaws, weaknesses, and secrets as well as strengths, in addition to being non-professional sleuths (except for Naoto/Uncle Ryotaro, but the former had other issues that affected her detective capacity, and the latter lacked a Persona). And yet, Yu and Co's friendships beautifully withstood all of that and provided the needed character development. In many ways, the synergy of the Investigation Team really reminded me of my own friends that I still keep in touch even when we are now physically apart. While I ended up dating Yukiko for this run, I am now looking forward to dating Chie, Rise, and Naoto on my NG+ runs.

In top of this the True End that I attained really wrapped up the story nicely, with everyone getting closures that they deserved. The town community started to work together after a long decline, Nanako and Uncle Ryotaro started to move on with their lives after Aunt Chisato passing away, and everyone in general came out all the stronger. And this was after a lot of soul-searching, a lot of thinking, and a lot of battles in the search for the real killer - a happy ending that just naturally came out without being seemingly forced. It was really heartwarming to see all of this in both the ultimate true epilogue of P4G and in the first few chapters of Dancing All Night too.

 

Lore

While there are still many parts of the Persona lore and Jungian theory behind that I don't know about, one thing that interested me was how the various mythological and religious characters were portrayed and interpreted in P4G. The Personas comes from various religions and cultures - including one from Australia (Mokoi) - with all of the actual info from the Compendium, and that provoked my interest in the various myths that shaped up various cultures to this day.

 

Gameplay

While Atlus has long been known as the king of difficult games, I was pleasantly surprised by how easily approachable with P4G. While I did end up spending numerous hours grinding my levels, the battles themselves were hardly stressful in Very Easy mode, with most enemies going down in 1-2 turns if I employed some basic strategies - which was a good thing as I wanted to focus more on how the story and the characters develop. Thankfully, Atlus seemed to have inherited this approach in game design for Dancing All Night, and apparently ditto for Arena and Arena Ultimax. The dungeons were nothing special, gameplay-wise, but they hardly were a pain to get through either. As for the everyday life-planning, I certainly had fun thinking about which attribute or Social Link should I raise - should I go to my basketball practice with my clubmate and raise his SL, or should I hang around with one of the Investigation Team members? Should I study to further my knowledge during the evenings, or shall I do my part-time job (and raise my diligence/courage)? It also helped that the gameplay is tied onto Yu's character-writing and storyline, and I look forward doing the same thing once I get around to P3P and P5.

Conclusion

If you want to get into the Persona series, I strongly suggest starting this one before moving to any other. While it is comparatively lighthearted story ending on a high note (provided that you make the correct decisions during two crucial points - the game will tell you when), it has a lot of substance that made me cry and think as well. I found P4G a good story on it's own, and I think it made me emotionally prepared to take on P3 and P5, which I am looking forward to.

[Dismissed]

To be honest, I think Final Fantasy 6 is better than 7. Just saying.

[DragonFlames]

11 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

To be honest, I think Final Fantasy 6 is better than 7. Just saying.

And 12 puts both of them to shame. hides from angry mob

Then again, some, if not all, of the superbosses in Final Fantasy (especially 10 and 12) have "Bullshit Difficulty" written on neon signs plastered on their foreheads, so I guess it all evens out?

[Reality]

Playing the two RPGs on the SNES mini (played FF6 years ago with more positive opinion)

Secret of Mana - I still like the atmopshere and the tone of the story, but it's kind of annoying compared to most other ARPGS - There are several very frustating bosses early on (the third boss comes to mind), the game feels more linear than most - The implementaiton of Magic is ... kind of a cop out, it's annoying that there are attacks that you can't dodge by position (that also freeze time) and later in the game when you have access to it yourself, it feels like you use it primarily to cheese things with invincibility frames rather than damage them. Features a weird and bizarre weapon damage type / monster resistance system - that made me think that base damage was a lie or that damage ranges were really extremely broad - The exception  is the sword, which unfairly gets neutral or positive damage on pretty much everything in the game - The weapon level up system also further discuorages using all of the alternatee weapons on top of never knowing whetehr an enemy was resiting it or you just hit them during their block animation. Puzzles take too long to appear in the game - most of the first half has very boring dungeon design due to this. The stupid Scroll Lock thing was bad enough in multiplayer where you can at least talk to the other person, but in singleplayer it's even more nonsencial, forcing liberal use of charather switches to get the AI unstuck... the AI also had a habit of fighting everything on sight, preventing use of "stun and run" to save time due to the scroll lock. I couldn't come up with much of a solution besides keeping them dead for long periods of movement, and only taking care of them for bosses, etc. 

FF 6 - I've always felt this game was a little bloated, but that it was definately a good game, although nowhere near eclipsing FF7-10 games as it's fan's often suggest. However it's gameplay was startlingly non-reactive for my replay. I feel like in the majority of fights enemies (and even bosses) have 3 attacks that do basically nothing to your party, and 1 attack that actually deals damage (usually 1 shotting 1 member or taking 60-80% off everyone).  This basically meant that the game encouraged playing on autopilot other than an occasionl "healing/revival" turn, but there is no sense of topping off health or anything to prevent deaths in advance, since the game is SO FREE the rest of the time, and relied so heavily on spike damage from singular big attacks rather than anything else the boss did mattering due to wearing you down etc. The SNES-mini preserves the infuriating tutorial design of the original - Gau having a tutorial but the other gimmicky charathers (especially Sabin due to his introductory boss fight) is nonsensical. In general, having a mix of unique charathers and a couple of normal charathers is annoying because it just led me to favor the normies over the others (pick thing from command list, use attack,). You do occasional get to make use of the splitting party for things like the World of Ruin 3 door/switches, but It wasn't reaelly enough of an encouragement to make me use everyone, especialy since I didn't really need to level them up to prepare them for it. I went with the formula - 12 on level healing items between every dungeon, 2 on level MP restores, armor/weapon updates every 3rd town - Seemed to fit this game pretty closely up until Magitek Research Facility, then pulled ahead. Game was too easy in general, although I was prepared for that from my old playthrough.  Game partially implements a Chrono Trigger - esque chest content upgrade system with locations it expects you to revisit ... but without text (Chrono Trigger's peek inside) it's more obscure and you get punished for playing dungeons throughly the first time. 

In short, kind of a big reminder of my rant about FF5 being a paradigm shift into "breadth not depth" and combining light RPG type mechanics into mainstream RPGs. FF6's gameplay was simultiousnly simple and rough around the edges, and didn't really hold my interest, but I only needed a single weekend to blow through it.

 Most memorable moment - When I first resuced Celes I forgot to get her equipment and took her and Locke Bare-handed through the cave up to the digging-machine boss which then  one shot both of them in turn due to not having the magic immunity. She still played out her dialogue about having the Rune Sword to protect herself.

[Slumber]

On 6/15/2018 at 8:41 AM, Purple Mage said:

To be honest, I think Final Fantasy 6 is better than 7. Just saying.

A lot of people think like you. 

I mostly like 7 more because of the nostalgia I have for it. I played 7 when I was like 9 or 10, and I have a lot of memories playing through it with some friends.

I didn't play 6 until the GBA version. I enjoyed it, but my feelings towards it aren't nearly as strong. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

On 6/15/2018 at 6:41 AM, Purple Mage said:

To be honest, I think Final Fantasy 6 is better than 7. Just saying.

Agreed. I played both as an adult. Never got past disc 1 of 7 despite multiple attempts. 6 I played start to finish. Neither breaks my top five final fantasy games, but I'll always remember 6 having a scene so depressing I cried:

Spoiler

The scene where Celes, our player character at that point of the game, attempts to kill herself after repeatedly failing to save Cid on the island after the world had ended. I was floored when I learned this was just one outcome of an RNG minigame, since it seemed so intentionally written for this part of the game. 

 

[Armagon]

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Agreed. I played both as an adult. Never got past disc 1 of 7 despite multiple attempts.

Wait, there are seven discs in Final Fantasy 7?

[Interdimensional Observer]

30 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Wait, there are seven discs in Final Fantasy 7?

They meant disc 1 of Final Fantasy 7, the actual game is only three discs. FFVIII is 4 discs, which I think is the same for IX (and is also the same number for the totally unrelated game Legend of Dragoon). Blame it not necessarily on dungeons and whatnot, and more on the movie sequences consuming a lot of space. I think I remember hearing, don't know how accurate it is, but you could fit all the places that become inaccessible on Tales of Symphonia's Disc 2 on one disc with the rest of the game were it not for the few movie sequences.

 

And @Glennstavos

Spoiler

9 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

The scene where Celes, our player character at that point of the game, attempts to kill herself after repeatedly failing to save Cid on the island after the world had ended. I was floored when I learned this was just one outcome of an RNG minigame, since it seemed so intentionally written for this part of the game. 

Agreed. The "successful" outcome is just so boring and uninspired by comparison, and Cid doesn't even do anything if rescued. My guess is that they wrote the failure version first, but wanted to include a "good" outcome if you really tried and wanted a happy outcome. Even though the true writing goodness here is letting Cid die. They didn't even bother to give you something nice like the Genji Glove you can get much earlier in the game if you deny Banon's request for assistance three times.

VII's opening, well Midgar is both tight at times, but also slow with things like the Cloud crossdressing segment. Once you get past Midgar, things slow again and I don't think they pick up for a bit.

I didn't like how FFVII began making minigames a part of the FF experience. They aren't terrible here, but I didn't need them. VII laid the precedent for X and X-2 though, where minigames become much too prevalent and unlocking the true power of ultimate weapons. I'm fine with Triple Triad, I'm fine with minigames as a whole, just don't make them mandatory or hide really good stuff behind them. If I wanted to play something for minigames, I buy Mario Party, not an RPG.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

(and is also the same number for the totally incredible game Legend of Dragoon). 

Fixed that for you. I may not have finished 7 but Legend of Dragoon I'm totally into. FF7 would have me more engaged if there were more SHOUTING during battle. Xenoblade Chronicles has the right idea.

Quote

VII's opening, well Midgar is both tight at times, but also slow with things like the Cloud crossdressing segment. Once you get past Midgar, things slow again and I don't think they pick up for a bit.

I didn't like how FFVII began making minigames a part of the FF experience. 

Just to be clear the last area I got to was the Saucer. Err, whatever they call the golden casino area with all the minigames. I do remember getting stuck in Midgar once. The game's graphics and signposting is so poor I didn't know I could walk up to this one wall and start making the climb to Shinra HQ in order to progress the story. That's one of my bigger gripes with the game graphics being so poor that the environments are actively confusing to navigate. And good luck looking for the magic passage through because the game has random battles all the damn time. 

There's a classic final fantasy game where finding a secret passage with no hints is necessary to progress. 5 I think. It reminds me of that

Edited June 17, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Modamy]

12 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Just to be clear the last area I got to was the Saucer. Err, whatever they call the golden casino area with all the minigames. I do remember getting stuck in Midgar once. The game's graphics and signposting is so poor I didn't know I could walk up to this one wall and start making the climb to Shinra HQ in order to progress the story. That's one of my bigger gripes with the game graphics being so poor that the environments are actively confusing to navigate. And good luck looking for the magic passage through because the game has random battles all the damn time. 

There's a classic final fantasy game where finding a secret passage with no hints is necessary to progress. 5 I think. It reminds me of that

The Golden Saucer (you got close). The pre rendered backgrounds used in FF7 are definitely an issue. It's hard to tell what some of the environments are supposed to be and whats traversible or not. I recently played through the game and remember getting stuck on a point where you have jump off a ledge onto a swinging pendulum thing with really precise timing.

Most games that are regarded as "masterpieces" tend to be good but not to live up to the hype. Final Fantasy 7, Chrono Trigger, and as I'm now in the process of finding out Final Fantasy Tactics (maybe one day I'll get back to Xenogears and find out if that deserves to be on this list as well). I think it's always for the best to go into those kinds of games with a completely neutral mindset and just ignore anything anyone else told you about them.