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Let's Compare the Localization of Fire Emblem Games!


Kirokan
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Does Bastain speak in, like, Haikus in the Japanese version, which was translated into iambic pentameter in English?

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15 hours ago, Corrobin said:

Does Bastain speak in, like, Haikus in the Japanese version, which was translated into iambic pentameter in English?

I'm curious about that myself. Will look into it xD

5 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I have another question; does Rhajat in the English version have been altered to be more like Tharja? I have been hearing allegations of the claims, but with concrete proof. 

Hmm, so do you mean she wasn't like Tharja in Japanese but became more like her in English? From what I recall she seemed the same to me in both versions... but it has been awhile. Character changes are harder to study since they take multiple instances across the game to analyze rather than specific segments. But I'll keep it in mind anyway. : )

@Interdimensional Observer

I revised my Black Knight article significantly (no changes to the conclusion, but added a lot more context, detail, etc) so feel free to give that a read too about him and Nados. : )

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I'm probably going to tweeze Tellius to the point there is nothing left, and I think I might be approaching that. But is this 2-2 Base Conversation with Nephenee, Lucia, Heather and Brom, simply country bumpkins being not very intelligent, or was there some actual wordplay at work in the Japanese? Because I can't think of any disease/infection in English that sounds/looks anything like "espionage". Although it could be along the lines of the "Sothe's children" or "Rancid butter" lines- NoA just added some color in line with the spirit of the Japanese.

Tweezing is what we do! Noted. I'll assume it has to do with more localization fun but let's see.

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Idioms tend to lack perfect equivalents in other languages, so what of Ranulf's use of "fish out of water" in his Ike support in PoR? 

Another good one! Thanks!

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And on the topic of idioms, ever heard of Bravely Default? The Swordmaster job's various skills all employ idioms and the like in Japanese, and also in English, the trivia section here compares the Japanese and the English. Just as a little something to feed your mind, without you having to analyze it yourself.

I played Bravely Default, and that figures, I was always a little mystified by the strange phrases the swordmasters had xD That makes sense...

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I recall Legends of Localization mentioning that Japanese sometimes likes leaving statements unfinished, but with a clear ending implied. This quip now that I look at this again, was probably such an instance. Translators, so the article said, are faced with a dilemma here of whether to fill in the blank and choose what to fill it in with, or leave it open. SS's translators clearly picked the latter option. And to be fair, I like it. Since no one choice of wording or meaning would suffice I think, leaving it open makes it pregnant with all possible answers all at once. "Therefore, I... will serve him unto death" or "will terminate his enemies", something either combative or emphasizing Selena's loyalty, whatever you could say, I think it would fall short of ambiguity's potency here.

 

They do. A lot. And it's a dilemma everytime... xD

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Just to point this out, characters can form supports at different rates with different people. Ike and Soren can support at an accelerated rate, Ike and Shinon however have a below average support speed, being that Shinon hates Ike, although Shinon actually hates Soren more and supports him at the slowest rate, type 04 (02 is average). Oliver, understandably, has the most 04 supports by a landslide, although surprisingly it isn't anywhere near everybody, just a bunch of Laguz , not even all of them, and Tanith and Tormod. This help can explain the hesitancy, downright disliking, and or surprised to come to like Oliver many characters with unique lines with him have.

That's pretty fun. I love it when gameplay fits into the lore/relations/mechanics that way.

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And to round out RD funnies, there is Shinon dismayed that Gatrie he thinks would flirt with a "tree in a skirt":

That entire support conversation has actually been requested multiple times (for good reason) so I'm curious too xD

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I've more or less read over all the PoR, Blazing and SS supports in the past and skimmed over them again. Barring a massive rewrite ala the Garcia-Dozla A, a not-so outstanding English phrasing of things (like pretty much all of the RD funnies being pointed out) differing from the Japanese to the same degree of those outstanding lines. Or some subtle loss of nuance in meaning from the Japanese (all of these cases would require reading the Japanese to determine, and rising sun runes aren't in my capacities obviously, I envy that they are for you), I'm unable to detect anything else that really stands out. If there are and someone else can point them out, good, but I cannot.

Thank you so much for the run through! I really appreciate it as it helps me with my list compilation with less time searching on my part and more time analyzing. : ) I'm really glad you share my passion in these trivial matters xD

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And as you should be aware, Vestaria Saga is expected to have an officially translated version come out this summer. We know nothing about who is translating it, and whether it'll be a machine translated typo terror that turns the end of the world into a marsupial, or whether it'll be a slow cooked masterpiece. It should be wordy though, apparently there was this Chapter 12x in the game, no battle, just reams upon reams of dialogue. If we see anything of interest, can we bring it to your attention?

I'm aware of this! Wish Kaga had let us do it xD Either way feel free to, but, these games i look at now I know the contexts pretty well, where as for that I wouldn't know the context without playing them...and so the issue is I'd have to probably play it first before being able to really figure any of that out. But I am interested in the game, so let's see!

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A request from Fates BR. When rescuing Kagero, there's a...humorous...exchange with the three siblings. When asked about Ryoma, Kagero says "I'm afraid--" but is immediately cut off by the siblings going all "OHMYGODHE'SDEADNOOO". And something about "building a monument to his honor".

What is this scene like in JP?

Please tell me there is no "monument" comment... Please let me regain my respect for Hinoka... Really, I expect the flying-off-the-handle shenanigans to be there, as it's a thing that happens often, but are the siblings more in despair than the "oops we're too late OH WELL" dismissiveness in the localization?

11 hours ago, Kirokan said:

I revised my Black Knight article significantly (no changes to the conclusion, but added a lot more context, detail, etc) so feel free to give that a read too about him and Nados. : )

Ahhhh more details, yes! This article has caused conflicting feelings in me.

I'm not bothered by how "awkward" the original is with soul+armor warping. It is what it is. And I despise localization changes. But. This particular convo is one that I've always really liked. They did a damn good job with it. The thing I like most about it is that Ike is all calm and collected instead of giving a knee-jerk "what did you say?!" response when BK says he let him win. The whole thing just works so damn well. I really like the convo and the plot info/characterization it provides. ...But I hate localization changes. ...Conflicting feelings, very strong on both sides. Note that I am not about to start hating (or even liking less) something that I've liked for so many years. I'm merely...acknowledging my feelings.

 

Going to chime in about FE10's extended script: you say you have it in the works, and I just want you to know I am looking forward to it! No rush, of course, just lettin' ya know there's at least one person excited! :3

Edited by Sock
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Interesting stuff! I second @Interdimensional Observer's  request for Marcia's quips.

Also, can make requests here for games other than FE? In Pokemon G/S/C you run into a Team Rocket grunt in Cerulean City that has an unusual way of speaking. Always wondered what that was like in Japanese.

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On 5/24/2018 at 12:22 PM, Sock said:

A request from Fates BR. When rescuing Kagero, there's a...humorous...exchange with the three siblings. When asked about Ryoma, Kagero says "I'm afraid--" but is immediately cut off by the siblings going all "OHMYGODHE'SDEADNOOO". And something about "building a monument to his honor".

What is this scene like in JP?

Please tell me there is no "monument" comment... Please let me regain my respect for Hinoka... Really, I expect the flying-off-the-handle shenanigans to be there, as it's a thing that happens often, but are the siblings more in despair than the "oops we're too late OH WELL" dismissiveness in the localization?

Ahhhh more details, yes! This article has caused conflicting feelings in me.

I'm not bothered by how "awkward" the original is with soul+armor warping. It is what it is. And I despise localization changes. But. This particular convo is one that I've always really liked. They did a damn good job with it. The thing I like most about it is that Ike is all calm and collected instead of giving a knee-jerk "what did you say?!" response when BK says he let him win. The whole thing just works so damn well. I really like the convo and the plot info/characterization it provides. ...But I hate localization changes. ...Conflicting feelings, very strong on both sides. Note that I am not about to start hating (or even liking less) something that I've liked for so many years. I'm merely...acknowledging my feelings.

 

Going to chime in about FE10's extended script: you say you have it in the works, and I just want you to know I am looking forward to it! No rush, of course, just lettin' ya know there's at least one person excited! :3

I'll try to find the scene in question in Fates BR, but do you happen to remember the specific chapter by any chance? That will help save time and significantly narrow my search (as it requires swimming through the game script files, coding and all xD)

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging your feelings! It understandably causes a conflict, especially when it's something we've known for such a long time. I'm also working on formulating an article in Japanese for Japanese fans talking about these changes to see what they think of it. After all many of these sorts of articles don't really consult or inform the Japanese side! I think it may be fun. : )

As for the extended script, I'm happy there's at least one person! It's going slowly but surely. The conflict comes from whether I should do the entire thing or only the additional bits not found in the localization. The issue with the entire thing is, put simply, time. The issue with only the missing pieces is that localization still may have changed some important nuances from other places...see the issue? I know SF translated bits primarily in part 4, and my colleague amielleon covered other bits and pieces. So I have to organize what they did (and didn't) do, then figure out which parts of the script remain and translate those.

Basically, it's quite the undertaking, especially since it's all done simply out of passion and wanting to share the results with the like..six fans (you included) who care xD (on top of all these other things I'm doing...)

But it will come along, one day! (Watch them remake the game with the full script anyway by then...ahhhhh)

19 hours ago, Scoot said:

Interesting stuff! I second @Interdimensional Observer's  request for Marcia's quips.

Also, can make requests here for games other than FE? In Pokemon G/S/C you run into a Team Rocket grunt in Cerulean City that has an unusual way of speaking. Always wondered what that was like in Japanese.

Yes you can! Though I prefer games I'm familiar with since context is important. Thankfully, I love Pokemon, especially Gen II (and did one article on a different guy already, actually, in that game), and did a few other articles on it already. I vaguely remember the guy you're talking about. Do you remember any specific lines he says? If not, not worries, I'll do some research. But anything to save valuable time is always helpful! : )

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@Kirokan I found a game script, but if you just want the dialogue:

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Oops! I so sorry! You not hurt, okay? I very busy. No time for talking with you. Not good for me if seen by somebody.

Oh no! You seen me already! I make big mistake! Hey, you! Forget you see me, okay? You see, hear, know nothing, okay? Bye, kid! Nothing! Bye-bye a go-go!

Hey, kid! Me am a TEAM ROCKET member kind of guy! Come from another country, a trainer number one, me! Think I did, if stop the energy, be big panic for here people! Secret it is my mission, so tell you I not! But! If win you do versus me, a man I be and mine secret to you I tell. Hey, kid! Battle begin we do!

Ayieeeh! No, no, no, believe it I can't! Strong very much be you! Match I am not to you! OK. Tell you mine secret will I. MACHINE PART steal by me, hide it I did in GYM of the CERULEAN. Inside water put it I did. Look for in water of GYM at. Boy, but you forget me not! Beat you for sure will TEAM ROCKET. Come from JOHTO will they, mine friends, yes. Will revenge they are. ... You say what? TEAM ROCKET bye-bye a go-go? Broken it is says you? Oh, no! Should I do what now on from, me?

 

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2 hours ago, Kirokan said:

I'll try to find the scene in question in Fates BR, but do you happen to remember the specific chapter by any chance? That will help save time and significantly narrow my search (as it requires swimming through the game script files, coding and all xD)

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging your feelings! It understandably causes a conflict, especially when it's something we've known for such a long time. I'm also working on formulating an article in Japanese for Japanese fans talking about these changes to see what they think of it. After all many of these sorts of articles don't really consult or inform the Japanese side! I think it may be fun. : )

As for the extended script, I'm happy there's at least one person! It's going slowly but surely. The conflict comes from whether I should do the entire thing or only the additional bits not found in the localization. The issue with the entire thing is, put simply, time. The issue with only the missing pieces is that localization still may have changed some important nuances from other places...see the issue? I know SF translated bits primarily in part 4, and my colleague amielleon covered other bits and pieces. So I have to organize what they did (and didn't) do, then figure out which parts of the script remain and translate those.

Basically, it's quite the undertaking, especially since it's all done simply out of passion and wanting to share the results with the like..six fans (you included) who care xD (on top of all these other things I'm doing...)

But it will come along, one day! (Watch them remake the game with the full script anyway by then...ahhhhh)

The scene is at the end of Ch10. Sorry, not sure why I didn't say that.

I can't begin to imagine how huge of a project the extended script is.

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3 minutes ago, Sock said:

I can't begin to imagine how huge of a project the extended script is.

SF has it stated that the additional text is about 5% of the total script of the game. Of course, you have to find that 5% anywhere and everywhere in the haystack of standard script. The Extended Script I believe I heard is oxymoronically shorter in some of the early Part 1 chapters! :wacko: And NoA actually added some lines in a few places too I think, not a lot and not too meaningful, but some, like the "Don't forget Lekain is probably still alive" bit Micaiah and Sothe say in 4-P.

Whoever thought that, as has been stated in some interview, that more casual players want less dialogue to read had some really funky logic. The best I can rationalize it, is that the "casual" player just wants to slaughter enemies with their favs and are too immature/gameplay-oriented to care about plot. There might be such casual players, but more often, I'd think a casual player would be playing for story first and foremost nowadays. The concept of two separate scripts was one problematic idea, and think the same can be said for the things hidden on a 2nd playthrough, since the Nasir-Gareth Base Conversation at least provides some really important lore. 

 

One thing I wonder, but severely doubt the Extended Script would hold, is a regnal number for Elincia. Sanaki is the 37th Empress of Begnion, Pelleas is the the 14th King of Daein, two of the three Beorc kingdoms have their numbers of monarchs known, but Elincia, despite me looking over the English scripts of PoR and RD alike, and the official timeline, never do they say what number Elincia or her father Ramon is! It's so annoying! One little detail!

If Daein and Begnion are anything to go on, and Begnion has an average rule of 17.361 over the 36 Empresses prior to Sanaki. 405-646 taken as the period of Daein's first 13 kings, we get an average of 18.538 years per ruler, very similar. So if we define 390-645 as encompassing Crimean history pre-Elincia and divide that by 18 years per monarch on average, then Elincia should be the 15th monarch of Crimea I'd predict. But if only I had an actual number!

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1 hour ago, Scoot said:

@Kirokan I found a game script, but if you just want the dialogue:

 

Thanks! I had actually found it earlier from the same game script, but for some reason SF isn't letting me edit my posts...xD Thanks!

1 hour ago, Sock said:

The scene is at the end of Ch10. Sorry, not sure why I didn't say that.

I can't begin to imagine how huge of a project the extended script is.

That's a big help, thanks! Will add it to the to-do list.

Yes... but it will be rewarding I'm sure, and more importantly, a great reference document.

44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

SF has it stated that the additional text is about 5% of the total script of the game. Of course, you have to find that 5% anywhere and everywhere in the haystack of standard script. The Extended Script I believe I heard is oxymoronically shorter in some of the early Part 1 chapters! :wacko: And NoA actually added some lines in a few places too I think, not a lot and not too meaningful, but some, like the "Don't forget Lekain is probably still alive" bit Micaiah and Sothe say in 4-P.

Whoever thought that, as has been stated in some interview, that more casual players want less dialogue to read had some really funky logic. The best I can rationalize it, is that the "casual" player just wants to slaughter enemies with their favs and are too immature/gameplay-oriented to care about plot. There might be such casual players, but more often, I'd think a casual player would be playing for story first and foremost nowadays. The concept of two separate scripts was one problematic idea, and think the same can be said for the things hidden on a 2nd playthrough, since the Nasir-Gareth Base Conversation at least provides some really important lore.

One thing I wonder, but severely doubt the Extended Script would hold, is a regnal number for Elincia. Sanaki is the 37th Empress of Begnion, Pelleas is the the 14th King of Daein, two of the three Beorc kingdoms have their numbers of monarchs known, but Elincia, despite me looking over the English scripts of PoR and RD alike, and the official timeline, never do they say what number Elincia or her father Ramon is! It's so annoying! One little detail!

If Daein and Begnion are anything to go on, and Begnion has an average rule of 17.361 over the 36 Empresses prior to Sanaki. 405-646 taken as the period of Daein's first 13 kings, we get an average of 18.538 years per ruler, very similar. So if we define 390-645 as encompassing Crimean history pre-Elincia and divide that by 18 years per monarch on average, then Elincia should be the 15th monarch of Crimea I'd predict. But if only I had an actual number!

The stranger part to me is you can skip that dialogue just as well as this regular dialogue with the simple press of the Start/+ button. xD

I'll keep an eye out for that, but that's the kind of detail localization wouldn't miss, I'd hope!

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15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

There might be such casual players, but more often, I'd think a casual player would be playing for story first and foremost nowadays.

Tell me, what exactly are you basing that on?

Anyway, as far as requests go, I'd like to know what Aversa says in the Japanese version of Chapter 22 about Excellus. For reference here's what she says in the localised version when she fights the Avatar:

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Aversa: "Yes, I promised him the Plegian throne in exchange for the Emblem... He jumped at the offer! Well, as much as the fat little piggie could jump... Men are all the same. Learn their ambition, and you have them by the- Oho... Well, perhaps Excellus was a bit different in that respect..."

 

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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Since I last posted, two more articles for fun. Both involve Bartre and Karla!

FE7:

On 5/26/2018 at 10:40 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

Anyway, as far as requests go, I'd like to know what Aversa says in the Japanese version of Chapter 22 about Excellus. For reference here's what she says in the localised version when she fights the Avatar

Ooh that does sound interesting. I'll make the assumption it's much more colorful than the original is, knowing 8-4, but let's see! Noted it down.

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The Bartre bits are neat. Japanese certainly has information per character density as one of its written benefits, how difficult is it to type though? And the second instance is why it'd be a good idea for translators to have an actual copy of the game (hacked to remove all difficulty/gameplay concerns) set to the part they're translating. But admittedly with multiple translators, and perhaps translators writing out of chronological order (I could understand this), it'd be a real challenge to set up, so I get why they can't do that.

FE7 was the first FE to come aboard, and Nintendo typically doesn't make text-heavy games, so I can understand any hiccups FE7 had. Not to say the Aenir mistake was totally excusable.

 

One little RD bit happened to pop in my mind, from 4-3:

Spoiler

Sanaki:
“I don’t understand. How can you be a goddess and not know? I thought gods were perfect beings who knew everything!”

Yune:
“Gods? Perfect? Where did you get that idea? You haven’t met a lot of gods, have you?”

Sanaki:
“Well, no. But divinity created life from nothing! Surely only perfect beings could do that!”

Yune:
“We did create life, and can do many things that you creatures of flesh can’t. But that doesn’t make us perfect. It just means we can make mistakes on a much grander scale… We’re not what you’ve been taught, and we’re much closer to you skin-wearers than some will admit. But we do make mistakes… Sometimes we make terrible mistakes. Sometimes all it takes is one emotional outburst, and the entire world is drowning underwater!”

The issue here I'm not sure if the Japanese can resolve, but perhaps you could check?

"Some" sounds plural, implying multiple gods, which may mean Tellius has actual real gods we don't see. Then again, "some" could just be referring to the haughty Ashera, who with Yune gives us two deities, the bare minimum for plurality, and yet that is still plurality. That "We did create life", if interpreted to just mean life's creation insofar as the story Yune later tells in the Tower of Guidance details it, would just mean Ashera and Yune. Yune here with Sanaki referring to Ashunera as a "we" since they were Ashunera when one and technically you could argue her actions were their actions.

There is the other issue here of Yune possibly just making up the "gods" to cheer up Sanaki or just exaggerate. But I kinda doubt this given the seriousness and sorrow Yune has as this conversation goes on, right after the last of these lines, or rather during them and it's noticed right afterwards, Yune's emotions get out of hand and she starts a localized sandstorm.

 

On 5/26/2018 at 1:40 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

Anyway, as far as requests go, I'd like to know what Aversa says in the Japanese version of Chapter 22 about Excellus. For reference here's what she says in the localised version when she fights the Avatar:

Quote

Aversa: "Yes, I promised him the Plegian throne in exchange for the Emblem... He jumped at the offer! Well, as much as the fat little piggie could jump... Men are all the same. Learn their ambition, and you have them by the- Oho... Well, perhaps Excellus was a bit different in that respect..."

 

Is this the line that makes people think Excellus is a eunuch? Reading "a bit different" as meaning without genitalia is taking things a bit far, it could simply mean he isn't into sex, and being an ugly mage, and mages tend to be nerds, that could be the case. And eunuchs IRL tend not be lone individuals, they were a societal group that was employed since time immemorial in dynastic China and to lesser extents through India into the Middle East, if Excellus was a eunuch, where are his fellow castrati serving Grima or Walhart? 

Of course, even if Excellus isn't into sex, he is into molestation, as one of my absolute least favorite and juvenile lines in Awakening, nay from all of FE goes: "I do so enjoy inappropriate touching..." (Chapter 17 to be precise). By Ashunera (I do not take Naga as my god) I pray that is English only!

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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Regarding Bartre's "You don't even have a weapon!"

I offer a different perspective to consider: Bartre is chastising himself. I imagine him staring at his hands in utter disbelief when he says that. And then Karla is all "Do you still want to fight? ...Nevermind, I've had enough." Dunno if he'd be more likely to say "I don't even have a weapon!" or "You don't even have a weapon!" when talking to himself. Is it even remotely believable that he'd use second-person?

Just a different take on the situation. A character referring to himself in second-person in an unvoiced game doesn't go over well with a one-off line like that (as we can see), so I'm inclined to believe it was some sort of mix up.

Also, I'm confused about the start of the convo. In the video, Karla says "What is it? Prepare yourself!" and Bartre immediately reacts. This doesn't make sense to me. Would Bartre be able to react fast enough to a surprise attack from Karla? Not to mention, he doesn't have a weapon to counter with even though he thinks he does (out of instinct), so wouldn't that end badly? ...Of the two, I'd say Bartre would be more likely to attack out of the blue.
Karla: What is it?
Bartre: Prepare yourself! YAA! ...Hm? What the? I don't even have a weapon!
It's also funnier, since his surprise attack failed. It just doesn't make sense to me to say "What is it?" right before "Prepare yourself!" ...Are you asking what this person wants or are you just attacking everything that moves? Make up your mind!

I don't know, I'm kind of rambling.

Edited by Sock
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16 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

One little RD bit happened to pop in my mind, from 4-3:

  Hide contents

Sanaki:
“I don’t understand. How can you be a goddess and not know? I thought gods were perfect beings who knew everything!”

Yune:
“Gods? Perfect? Where did you get that idea? You haven’t met a lot of gods, have you?”

Sanaki:
“Well, no. But divinity created life from nothing! Surely only perfect beings could do that!”

Yune:
“We did create life, and can do many things that you creatures of flesh can’t. But that doesn’t make us perfect. It just means we can make mistakes on a much grander scale… We’re not what you’ve been taught, and we’re much closer to you skin-wearers than some will admit. But we do make mistakes… Sometimes we make terrible mistakes. Sometimes all it takes is one emotional outburst, and the entire world is drowning underwater!”

The issue here I'm not sure if the Japanese can resolve, but perhaps you could check?

"Some" sounds plural, implying multiple gods, which may mean Tellius has actual real gods we don't see. Then again, "some" could just be referring to the haughty Ashera, who with Yune gives us two deities, the bare minimum for plurality, and yet that is still plurality. That "We did create life", if interpreted to just mean life's creation insofar as the story Yune later tells in the Tower of Guidance details it, would just mean Ashera and Yune. Yune here with Sanaki referring to Ashunera as a "we" since they were Ashunera when one and technically you could argue her actions were their actions.

There is the other issue here of Yune possibly just making up the "gods" to cheer up Sanaki or just exaggerate. But I kinda doubt this given the seriousness and sorrow Yune has as this conversation goes on, right after the last of these lines, or rather during them and it's noticed right afterwards, Yune's emotions get out of hand and she starts a localized sandstorm.

 

I feel like it's  because Japanese words are pluralized or singular by context, so probably the way the localization went about it. Still may be interesting to look into! The "some" there may also refer to the more dedicated senate/zealots who wouldn't admit gods to be closer to men than they realize.

1 hour ago, Sock said:

Regarding Bartre's "You don't even have a weapon!"

I offer a different perspective to consider: Bartre is chastising himself. I imagine him staring at his hands in utter disbelief when he says that. And then Karla is all "Do you still want to fight? ...Nevermind, I've had enough." Dunno if he'd be more likely to say "I don't even have a weapon!" or "You don't even have a weapon!" when talking to himself. Is it even remotely believable that he'd use second-person?

Just a different take on the situation. A character referring to himself in second-person in an unvoiced game doesn't go over well with a one-off line like that (as we can see), so I'm inclined to believe it was some sort of mix up.

Also, I'm confused about the start of the convo. In the video, Karla says "What is it? Prepare yourself!" and Bartre immediately reacts. This doesn't make sense to me. Would Bartre be able to react fast enough to a surprise attack from Karla? Not to mention, he doesn't have a weapon to counter with even though he thinks he does (out of instinct), so wouldn't that end badly? ...Of the two, I'd say Bartre would be more likely to attack out of the blue.
Karla: What is it?
Bartre: Prepare yourself! YAA! ...Hm? What the? I don't even have a weapon!
It's also funnier, since his surprise attack failed. It just doesn't make sense to me to say "What is it?" right before "Prepare yourself!" ...Are you asking what this person wants or are you just attacking everything that moves? Make up your mind!

I don't know, I'm kind of rambling.

It's okay to ramble!

So some others have brought this up as well. What if Bartre is just chastising himself in the second person? I want to research some of his other dialogue to see if there's weight to it. I think the choice of second person would be, if giving the translators the benefit of the doubt, a stab at you, the player, too. "You don't even have a weapon [equipped on me!]"

As for why Karla says that, the player would make Bartre go talk to her, so he would be approaching her already. I went to look at the English script but I can't actually find any that cover the scene... since I was wondering if she speaks before that or not. But in Japanese, she says,

どうした?
早く構えるがいい。

What is it? Come on already.

I think it just implies, since she's in the arena, both are probably in there fighting. When you think of it that way, it makes sense she'd ask him why he's just standing there before he makes his attack...with no weapon. xD

But I should add this to the post anyway since it's a popular theory.

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4 hours ago, Kirokan said:

When you think of it that way, it makes sense she'd ask him why he's just standing there before he makes his attack...with no weapon. xD

Now I get it. Thanks.

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21 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Is this the line that makes people think Excellus is a eunuch? Reading "a bit different" as meaning without genitalia is taking things a bit far

Seeing as the un-interrupted line would be " Learn their ambition, and you have them by the balls", I don't see how you could interpret "Excellus is a bit different" in any other context besides "Excellus is a eunuch, and thus has no balls to be grabbed by".

Quote

And eunuchs IRL tend not be lone individuals, they were a societal group that was employed since time immemorial in dynastic China and to lesser extents through India into the Middle East, if Excellus was a eunuch, where are his fellow castrati serving Grima or Walhart?

Just because they "tend not to be lone individuals", doesn't mean that all eunuchs are social butterflies. Oh, and just because something happens a certain way in real life doesn't mean that it has to happen that way in works of fiction.

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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41 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Seeing as the un-interrupted line would be " Learn their ambition, and you have them by the balls", I don't see how you could interpret "Excellus is a bit different" in any other context besides "Excellus is a eunuch, and thus has no balls to be grabbed by".

Aversa is using a figure of speech, they are often not literal. Unless you actually mean it can rain cats and dogs (and not even when Volug and Lethe get added to FEH will that be literally true). Aversa calls Gangrel a pig in that quote, and last time I checked, he looked and behaved nothing like a real one. Nor did we ever see her literally holding Gangrel's Levin Sword and Energy Drops, despite the fact she was manipulating him the entire time we saw the two together.

Excellus could just not be into sex, does he look and behave like he necessarily would? That would make him different from Gangrel, and most men, whom Aversa is accusing here of being capable of being sexually manipulated and are sex-driven.  If Excellus isn't into sex, then Aversa cannot metaphorically grab him by the Bolgacahones.

 

44 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Just because they "tend not to be lone individuals", doesn't mean that all eunuchs are social butterflies. Oh, and just because something happens a certain way in real life doesn't mean that it has to happen that way in works of fiction.

I do not mean they like to be buddy buds. Eunuchs do not occur naturally in nature, either there is a freak accident, doubtful, or somebody had to take a knife and remove the nether regions to create a eunuch with a specific purpose in mind for doing so. Unless it was a freak accident/incident, Excellus were he a eunuch, would likely have become one for the benefit of an administration, except administrations using eunuchs need more than just one, they need scores of them. And where are these other eunuchs and administrations demanding them? With Awakening's abundant world building?

Even if real history and fiction do not have to align, if Excellus were a eunuch, I'd expect them to state it a little more clearly than just an offhand remark from Aversa. Even though they made no big deal about it in Digital Devil Saga 2, Angel is stated multiple times in clear language to be a hermaphrodite. Why didn't Excellus get as much as that?

There is absolutely nothing confirming Excellus to be a eunuch in the slightest, he has as much evidence of being a eunuch as he does a traffic light robot. Given how strange it would be to have one person who is mentioned indirectly in a figure of speech to be a lone eunuch in a world, I have every reason to believe he is not! Immovable as a mountain I shall be here.

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11 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Excellus in Japan is identified as an Okama, basically. Excellus resembles the stereotypical depiction of one in anime.

*Thinks they heard the word before and looks up the definition*

What? He is supposed to be gay? Now he is just plain offensive! And like Kyza, he certainly doesn't come off as one in English. Thank goodness actually. Rather have a molester over a gay stereotype who happens to also be evil, which is a pretty low bar.

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

*Thinks they heard the word before and looks up the definition*

What? He is supposed to be gay? Now he is just plain offensive! And like Kyza, he certainly doesn't come off as one in English. Thank goodness actually. Rather have a molester over a gay stereotype who happens to also be evil, which is a pretty low bar.

Basically and yes it is offensive.

Spoiler

latest?cb=20110212224205

A stereotypical okama, note the picture has the exact same hairstyle and face as Excellus.

You can still see some of the stereotype even in the localization.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
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