Jotari

Anyone else find Julius underwhelming?

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Julius is a unit who needs investment and support to milk his full potential. Thus, he's going to disappoint anyone expecting him to be used like Black Knight. He's basically Xander, but as infantry, a mage, and a res tank.

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10 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

Julius is a unit who needs investment and support to milk his full potential. Thus, he's going to disappoint anyone expecting him to be used like Black Knight. He's basically Xander, but as infantry, a mage, and a res tank.

He's like Xander in the way he has a unique weapon that gives him great niches, but you'll need to invest in him to actually get his max potential (at least Julius' base skill set is decent; Xander's sucks hard).

Edited by Troykv

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Julius is a unit with a very specific niche. He's not going to be amazing in the Arena. You can make him work, but he'll still fall short of other characters in any other role.

The combination of Loptous and Atk Ploy is amazing for him, probably more than some may realize. Debuffing Atk is stronger than buffing your own Def and Res because it has a greater effect against opponents that have weapon triangle advantage against you. The -11 Atk from the two effects translates to -13.2 damage if the opponent has weapon triangle advantage.

+1 Julius [=] (Loptous, Iceberg / Draconic Aura, Mirror Stance 2, Dull Ranged 3, Atk Ploy 3, Quick RIposte 3) with no buffs survives +10 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Dire Thunder, Moonbow, Death Blow 3, Quickened Pulse) [buffs nullified] with 1 HP remaining and kills on the counterattack if Reinhardt is hit with Atk Ploy beforehand. That's dumb levels of impressive.

Note that a build using his default Guard 3 needs Distant Def 3 instead of Mirror Stance 2 to survive and kill on the counterattack (without defensive buffs) if Reinhardt lacks defensive buffs and fails the kill if Reinhardt does.

 

I can see him being immensely useful in challenge content to wall magic for days.

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4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Julius is a unit with a very specific niche. He's not going to be amazing in the Arena. You can make him work, but he'll still fall short of other characters in any other role.

The combination of Loptous and Atk Ploy is amazing for him, probably more than some may realize. Debuffing Atk is stronger than buffing your own Def and Res because it has a greater effect against opponents that have weapon triangle advantage against you. The -11 Atk from the two effects translates to -13.2 damage if the opponent has weapon triangle advantage.

+1 Julius [=] (Loptous, Iceberg / Draconic Aura, Mirror Stance 2, Dull Ranged 3, Atk Ploy 3, Quick RIposte 3) with no buffs survives +10 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Dire Thunder, Moonbow, Death Blow 3, Quickened Pulse) [buffs nullified] with 1 HP remaining and kills on the counterattack if Reinhardt is hit with Atk Ploy beforehand. That's dumb levels of impressive.

Note that a build using his default Guard 3 needs Distant Def 3 instead of Mirror Stance 2 to survive and kill on the counterattack (without defensive buffs) if Reinhardt lacks defensive buffs and fails the kill if Reinhardt does.

 

I can see him being immensely useful in challenge content to wall magic for days.

Having essencially 44 Res (and like 46 against blue mages) it's quite fun, I wante to promote it for the fact that levels of res tanking are incredible.

Also his voice acting, both english and japanese, that cocky, bratty, edgy feeling, and I love it.

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Wait, it's not just mages.

Slap Fury 3 and Distant Def on him, and he survives a lot of physical ranged units.  Now I REALLY have to build him up.  This is insane!

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Male Corrin is always open for a support. Julius and him can be dragon buddies. 

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2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Slap Fury 3 and Distant Def on him, and he survives a lot of physical ranged units.  Now I REALLY have to build him up.  This is insane!

I am not so sure about that. If Atk Ploy does not hit the initiating enemy, Julius cannot really survive physical ranged enemies. HATF!Kagero and Sothe with Moonbow-Life and Death wrecks Julius. Brave Bow archers running Moonbow-Quickened Pulse also shuts him down. The cream of the archers running Firesweep Bow also shuts Julius down.

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5 minutes ago, XRay said:

I am not so sure about that. If Atk Ploy does not hit the initiating enemy, Julius cannot really survive physical ranged enemies. HATF!Kagero and Sothe with Moonbow-Life and Death wrecks Julius. Brave Bow archers running Moonbow-Quickened Pulse also shuts him down. The cream of the archers running Firesweep Bow also shuts Julius down.

I know he's dependent on Atk Ploy.  But given that his survivability goes through the roof if he manages to hit it, it says quiet a bit about his stats.

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I currently have mine equipped with Mirror Strike and Quick Riposte for dual phase utility, though I have been considering transforming him into a dedicated enemy phase magic wall via F!Morgan's Mirror Stance. 

Mine is also Ally Supported with Ishtar, with the latter carrying Res Tactic in the C slot for better ploying potential.  

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Look they missed the boat making him infantry instead of armor, so they have a lot less stat points to work with.  However what if his Tome provided +3 def instead of +3 res, then they took away 5 res and put into def.  Now he has with his tome effective defense of 30 and effective res of 36.  With atk ploy 3, 35 def, 41 res.  Now that seems like pretty good mixed bulk, now he wouldn't be as insane in tanking blue mages but he can now tank physical hits much better.  Especially with drive speed support so he doesn't get doubled.  

Speaking of mirror stance, F morgan is likely to be in the upcoming stance banner.  I want Mirror stance 2 on my Julius, but I will need to pull 2 F Morgans, since I want to keep one cause flying mage and to ally support with M Morgan.  

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16 hours ago, Zhu Qiao said:

Mine is also Ally Supported with Ishtar, with the latter carrying Res Tactic in the C slot for better ploying potential.

Buffs expire before the Res comparison and re-activate after the Res comparison, so Res Tactic is doing nothing for his Ploy activation.

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2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Look they missed the boat making him infantry instead of armor, so they have a lot less stat points to work with.  However what if his Tome provided +3 def instead of +3 res, then they took away 5 res and put into def.  Now he has with his tome effective defense of 30 and effective res of 36.  With atk ploy 3, 35 def, 41 res.  Now that seems like pretty good mixed bulk, now he wouldn't be as insane in tanking blue mages but he can now tank physical hits much better.  Especially with drive speed support so he doesn't get doubled.  

Speaking of mirror stance, F morgan is likely to be in the upcoming stance banner.  I want Mirror stance 2 on my Julius, but I will need to pull 2 F Morgans, since I want to keep one cause flying mage and to ally support with M Morgan.  

He's a GHB unit. Once that happens, they are going to be a cut below because limited merges and a massive deficit in at least one stat to make players savor something better by paying for it. Yes, even the Black Knight is massively weak Res. Broke units need to be paid for. The Julius you say "they should have done" would have basically been Halloween Henry for reds. And what's Halloween Henry? Oh yeah, a 5* exclusive seasonal alt. 

He was never an armor to begin with anyway. 

If you don't want to be underwhelmed, asking IS to scrap GHB's is the first step. . 

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1 hour ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

He's a GHB unit. Once that happens, they are going to be a cut below because limited merges and a massive deficit in at least one stat to make players savor something better by paying for it. Yes, even the Black Knight is massively weak Res. Broke units need to be paid for. The Julius you say "they should have done" would have basically been Halloween Henry for reds. And what's Halloween Henry? Oh yeah, a 5* exclusive seasonal alt. 

He was never an armor to begin with anyway. 

If you don't want to be underwhelmed, asking IS to scrap GHB's is the first step. . 

Well then I'd prefer they don't have final boss characters as GHB.  Rather have minor characters from games, or minor bosses.  Also he wouldn't be Halloween Henry his BST would still be what it is currently making him not a great choice for arena like Henry is.  Nor would he be able to have that high speed along with great mixed bulk naturally, Julius needs help from teammates.  

Fallen M Robin isn't an armor either, but they made him one anyways so they can make his power through the roof.  I feel Julius is shafted here, when you look at Fallen Robin and Hardin.   Now I want an alt version that is an armor with great mixed bulk that is summonable.  

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56 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Well then I'd prefer they don't have final boss characters as GHB.  Rather have minor characters from games, or minor bosses.  Also he wouldn't be Halloween Henry his BST would still be what it is currently making him not a great choice for arena like Henry is.  Nor would he be able to have that high speed along with great mixed bulk naturally, Julius needs help from teammates.  

Fallen M Robin isn't an armor either, but they made him one anyways so they can make his power through the roof.  I feel Julius is shafted here, when you look at Fallen Robin and Hardin.   Now I want an alt version that is an armor with great mixed bulk that is summonable.  

There are three armor mages in the game. Winter Tharja, Halloween Henry, and Valentine Lyn. All have a BST of 165. I see no reason why they would give him less BST or more BST than them. Winter Tharja is already quite a terror, making many players clamor for Fjorm just to take her down. Julius would be basically powercrept W!Tharja with his tome's effect. He'll be given 27 Spd and maybe 25 or 27 DEF depending on whether they wanted to use his Final Chapter version or the one in Chapter 10 in FE4. ATK and HP would be given slight adjustments. His effective defense would be 31 or 33 DEF except against Marth, etc. . 

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3 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

There are three armor mages in the game. Winter Tharja, Halloween Henry, and Valentine Lyn. All have a BST of 165. I see no reason why they would give him less BST or more BST than them. Winter Tharja is already quite a terror, making many players clamor for Fjorm just to take her down. Julius would be basically powercrept W!Tharja with his tome's effect. He'll be given 27 Spd and maybe 25 or 27 DEF depending on whether they wanted to use his Final Chapter version or the one in Chapter 10 in FE4. ATK and HP would be given slight adjustments. His effective defense would be 31 or 33 DEF except against Marth, etc. . 

I was talking about my re allocating some stat points but keeping him infantry mage with same BST idea.  That way he isn't an armor, doesn't have access to insane armor skills, much lower BST, but at the same time if they did it like I suggested he could still be a good mixed tank and make great use of his tome.  Also the dragon weakness is pretty serious, any falchion user will make minced meat of him, while W! Tharja just destroys them with ease.  Too bad he can't have dragon buffs, just the bad part of being a dragon.  

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4 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

He's a GHB unit. Once that happens, they are going to be a cut below because limited merges and a massive deficit in at least one stat to make players savor something better by paying for it.

Merges, yes, but stats no. What are you expecting with any of the units being introduced or are already in the game? 50/40/40/40/40 stat spreads? Is Michalis shit because he's a slow, hard-hitting, 1-range physical tank like Alfonse (regular), Arden, Bartre, Cherche, Chrom (regular, paladin, and winter), Dorcas, Eldigan, Ephraim (regular and promoted), Frederick (regular), Gerome, M!Grima, Gunter, Hector (regular and Valentine's), BH Ike, Lukas, Oboro, Seliph, adult Tiki, Xander, and Zephiel? No, because that's a type of stat spread. Some of them can tank magic well too like Dorcas, M!Grima, Oboro, Seliph, and Zephiel or ignore their low speed to double on the offensive like any of the armors and both Ephraims. Granted, most of them are armors who already have the highest BST even before the boosted BST nonsense and have access to Bold Fighter while other have access to skills that make it easier for them to do other things like Berkut's Lance, Divine Tyfing, unique refined and Flame Siegmund, and unique refined Eckesachs.

Or is Ogma shit because he's so goddamned min-maxed by having high HP, attack, and speed and almost high defense at the cost of having the lowest base neutral resistance? If the only thing you need him to do is fight physical units that aren't Felicias using Felicia's Plate, then I see no problem in his nonexistent resistance. That's why you have 3 other units or the rest of your brigade to deal with units that Ogma, a physically-inclined sword infantry has trouble with. It's a type of stat spread and one that's still found today on units like Ares and Siegbert. Even Sigurd who if he didn't have Divine Tyrfing and Crusader's Ward, would probably keel over to any kind of magic when his base resistance is 17.

Every character has to have some kind of weakness of some kind because when you concentrate as many stats into a couple areas, something is going to be lacking. Granted, armors, melee and ranged, have stupid amounts of BST to work with, especially after boosted BST became the norm for everyone, but ranged cavalry, and speed doesn't really matter to them anymore when Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter exist, but the point still stands where the ones who are slow would need those skills to follow-up or Wary Fighter to prevent follow-ups from anyone who isn't using an applicable -breaker on them. Anyway, this applies to all units, story, GHB, TT, summonable, regular, seasonal, whatever. I have no idea where you're going with that just because Julius or any of the GHB units being GHB units mean they will have a massive deficit in a stat when that's applicable to all the units. M!Grima and Hardin arguably have the best weapons and stat spreads, but even then, they could have had more. M!Grima's base speed could have tanked for higher defense or resistance and the same for Hardin or his HP could have tanked so he could have had more raw defense or even speed. They are formidable foes, but even then they are not immortal gods unless that's what you want as summonable units like Surtrs with Muspellflame which at that point would spell the death of the game. Why use anyone else when you can have a team of literally invincible armors?

4 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

Yes, even the Black Knight is massively weak Res.

And Zelgius's resistance isn't? The difference between their resistance is 3; Zelgius has 21 resistance to the Black Knight's 18. Or Amelia for that matter since at the time of the Black Knight's release, she was basically the Black Knight with -1 HP and +4 Res and no Alondite or Distant Counter axe. At best, Amelia's base resistance is below average while the Black Knight and Zelgius's are low.

4 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

If you don't want to be underwhelmed, asking IS to scrap GHB's is the first step. .

Yes, and have even less content in Heroes and making it harder for new players who could easily access some neat units like Arden, Arvis, Berkut, Legion, groom Marth, Saias, Valter, and Zephiel in addition to the freebie map units and occasional free quest units. Those units might suck ass in arena except for Berkut because of his coveted lance, but for PvE, they are useful.

You know what would be better? Adding the goddamned GHB and TT units and Kaze, a Grand Conquest unit of all things, into the regular summoning pool and maybe seasonal pool -- not sure how they would do this -- for NY! M!Corrin, Valentine's Eliwood, and groom Marth. They could be locked to neutral stats only and that would still be okay when you can access shit like Berkut's Lance, Barb Shuriken, and Atk, Def, Panic, and Spd Ploy every now and again more easily instead of only having limited uses or needing to rely on summoning some 5* unit or Goad Cavalry from 4* Camus and Finn instead of needing to promote Reinhardt. Oh, and we'd finally have B Tomebreaker in the summoning pool. Stat-wise, some of them are fine like Legion is offensively a +Atk Raven because the developers decided to screw him over by 1 attack point instead of letting him have 35/35 offenses like how Ogma got screwed by 1 speed point. If they weren't locked to neutral stats, then having GHBs around doesn't hurt them. If anything, it would make them stronger like you would be guaranteed at least three copies of a GHB unit. For some units like Navarre, you'd be up to seven copies if you played since launch. Navarre's not that great, but a free +7 Navarre would still be pretty good.

Masked Marth is a problem since they decided it was a great idea for a unit to have no freaking passives, but with how "important" masked Marth is to the Tempest Trials, they might as well make it so you can gain a merge by using masked Marth to complete 5 rounds or something once every Tempest Trials. Lucina and masked Marth got powercrept stat-wise, but an easy +10 neutral Lucina who has access to unique refined Awakening Falchion and Seal Falchion is still pretty good all things considered.

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Were Julius armoured, or even worse, dragon, I would have never used him or promoted him. Same for Arvis.

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3 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Were Julius armoured, or even worse, dragon, I would have never used him or promoted him. Same for Arvis.

How come? Armored Julius or Dragon Julius could be more powerful due to higher BST. Same with armored Emperor Arvis.

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3 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

How come? Armored Julius or Dragon Julius could be more powerful due to higher BST. Same with armored Emperor Arvis.

Because there is enough armoured bullshit in the game already. Them being stupid doesn’t stop them being annoying to use.

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2 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Because there is enough armoured bullshit in the game already. Them being stupid doesn’t stop them being annoying to use.

I understand armor being hard to use, but if Julius was a ranged dragon in the sense that he could have like 153-155 BST as opposed to 151 like a mage then he would pretty much be around the same, except just better.

Personally I think it would be even better though if he was a DC Dragon with Loptous and much higher BST considering that he's supposed to be insanely powerful as Loptyr, whereas right now he's very underwhelming.

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4 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

if he was a DC Dragon

I would throw up. Dragons, dragons, knights, knights, armoured dragons, dragons again… It’s time to slow down with that. Not everything must be bursting apart at seams with BST or meta compliance.

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11 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

I understand armor being hard to use, but if Julius was a ranged dragon in the sense that he could have like 153-155 BST as opposed to 151 like a mage then he would pretty much be around the same, except just better.

Personally I think it would be even better though if he was a DC Dragon with Loptous and much higher BST considering that he's supposed to be insanely powerful as Loptyr, whereas right now he's very underwhelming.

Dragons roll with 157 BST or more except for Ninian at 149. Ninian was likely nerfed because she would be a really broken unit otherwise. Well, the atmosphere is also something she is not compatible with. More common are dragon with 162 BST.

Julius' BST is the second highest for a red mage, tied with Bridal Tharja and one behind Lyon.

Julius was a mixed tank but "beatable" with Celice+Dancer

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43 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Merges, yes, but stats no. What are you expecting with any of the units being introduced or are already in the game? 50/40/40/40/40 stat spreads? Is Michalis shit because he's a slow, hard-hitting, 1-range physical tank like Alfonse (regular), Arden, Bartre, Cherche, Chrom (regular, paladin, and winter), Dorcas, Eldigan, Ephraim (regular and promoted), Frederick (regular), Gerome, M!Grima, Gunter, Hector (regular and Valentine's), BH Ike, Lukas, Oboro, Seliph, adult Tiki, Xander, and Zephiel? No, because that's a type of stat spread. Some of them can tank magic well too like Dorcas, M!Grima, Oboro, Seliph, and Zephiel or ignore their low speed to double on the offensive like any of the armors and both Ephraims. Granted, most of them are armors who already have the highest BST even before the boosted BST nonsense and have access to Bold Fighter while other have access to skills that make it easier for them to do other things like Berkut's Lance, Divine Tyfing, unique refined and Flame Siegmund, and unique refined Eckesachs.

Or is Ogma shit because he's so goddamned min-maxed by having high HP, attack, and speed and almost high defense at the cost of having the lowest base neutral resistance? If the only thing you need him to do is fight physical units that aren't Felicias using Felicia's Plate, then I see no problem in his nonexistent resistance. That's why you have 3 other units or the rest of your brigade to deal with units that Ogma, a physically-inclined sword infantry has trouble with. It's a type of stat spread and one that's still found today on units like Ares and Siegbert. Even Sigurd who if he didn't have Divine Tyrfing and Crusader's Ward, would probably keel over to any kind of magic when his base resistance is 17.

Every character has to have some kind of weakness of some kind because when you concentrate as many stats into a couple areas, something is going to be lacking. Granted, armors, melee and ranged, have stupid amounts of BST to work with, especially after boosted BST became the norm for everyone, but ranged cavalry, and speed doesn't really matter to them anymore when Bold Fighter and Vengeful Fighter exist, but the point still stands where the ones who are slow would need those skills to follow-up or Wary Fighter to prevent follow-ups from anyone who isn't using an applicable -breaker on them. Anyway, this applies to all units, story, GHB, TT, summonable, regular, seasonal, whatever. I have no idea where you're going with that just because Julius or any of the GHB units being GHB units mean they will have a massive deficit in a stat when that's applicable to all the units. M!Grima and Hardin arguably have the best weapons and stat spreads, but even then, they could have had more. M!Grima's base speed could have tanked for higher defense or resistance and the same for Hardin or his HP could have tanked so he could have had more raw defense or even speed. They are formidable foes, but even then they are not immortal gods unless that's what you want as summonable units like Surtrs with Muspellflame which at that point would spell the death of the game. Why use anyone else when you can have a team of literally invincible armors?

I wasn't clear, but the stats comments was in part about the lack of IVs. I also failed to mention that IS doesn't put a lot of broken ass skills on GHB units. A lot of the units with the similar stat spread to Michalis have skills to mitigate their weaknesses. IS puts out these units, especially GHB units, just to whet the player's appetite for a superior mergable alternative with better skillsets in the summoning pool, generally speaking. 

43 minutes ago, Kaden said:

And Zelgius's resistance isn't? The difference between their resistance is 3; Zelgius has 21 resistance to the Black Knight's 18. Or Amelia for that matter since at the time of the Black Knight's release, she was basically the Black Knight with -1 HP and +4 Res and no Alondite or Distant Counter axe. At best, Amelia's base resistance is below average while the Black Knight and Zelgius's are low.

+3 Res is basically what is given by Fury. While insignificant against, say ,Reinhardt, it can mean the difference between surviving or dying against other red attackers or if there is a unit with triangle disadvantage attacking to get a kill. Zelgius also has +3 DEF at neutral over his Black Knight form. A -DEF/+RES Zelgius is basically Black Knight with a free +6 to Res. Amelia has +5 Res over Black Knight, actually. Her 23 Res can be raised to 29 for certain enemies via Close Def 3 or Distant Def 3. Or if some is is partial to using Triangle Adept on her, that is significantly magical bulk against blues. 

43 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Yes, and have even less content in Heroes and making it harder for new players who could easily access some neat units like Arden, Arvis, Berkut, Legion, groom Marth, Saias, Valter, and Zephiel in addition to the freebie map units and occasional free quest units. Those units might suck ass in arena except for Berkut because of his coveted lance, but for PvE, they are useful.

You know what would be better? Adding the goddamned GHB and TT units and Kaze, a Grand Conquest unit of all things, into the regular summoning pool and maybe seasonal pool -- not sure how they would do this -- for NY! M!Corrin, Valentine's Eliwood, and groom Marth. They could be locked to neutral stats only and that would still be okay when you can access shit like Berkut's Lance, Barb Shuriken, and Atk, Def, Panic, and Spd Ploy every now and again more easily instead of only having limited uses or needing to rely on summoning some 5* unit or Goad Cavalry from 4* Camus and Finn instead of needing to promote Reinhardt. Oh, and we'd finally have B Tomebreaker in the summoning pool. Stat-wise, some of them are fine like Legion is offensively a +Atk Raven because the developers decided to screw him over by 1 attack point instead of letting him have 35/35 offenses like how Ogma got screwed by 1 speed point. If they weren't locked to neutral stats, then having GHBs around doesn't hurt them. If anything, it would make them stronger like you would be guaranteed at least three copies of a GHB unit. For some units like Navarre, you'd be up to seven copies if you played since launch. Navarre's not that great, but a free +7 Navarre would still be pretty good.

Masked Marth is a problem since they decided it was a great idea for a unit to have no freaking passives, but with how "important" masked Marth is to the Tempest Trials, they might as well make it so you can gain a merge by using masked Marth to complete 5 rounds or something once every Tempest Trials. Lucina and masked Marth got powercrept stat-wise, but an easy +10 neutral Lucina who has access to unique refined Awakening Falchion and Seal Falchion is still pretty good all things considered.

Do note that I was responding to someone else wishing a unit was broke. Giving Julius the armor or Myrrh treatment means no GHB and having to summon for Julius. IS is not giving that level of unit out for free if they can help it. THEY, not me, are not going to give those TT, GHB, and Grand Conquest units out until much later in the game's life. I, sure, can benefit from all of the GHB, TT, etc units being in the summoning pool, but IS isn't going to have that level of generosity. 

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I don't have intent promote Julius anytime soon, but definitely not because he would be "underwhelming". He is extremely solid magic tank, with right build me might be even best for bussiness. I dare say GBH unitsthat are solid in their niche is much better then if we got  Meta Cancer instead Don't get me wrong I like meta cancer, but i got it covered already So I certainly need great specialists now.

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9 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

Dragons roll with 157 BST or more except for Ninian at 149. Ninian was likely nerfed because she would be a really broken unit otherwise. Well, the atmosphere is also something she is not compatible with. More common are dragon with 162 BST.

You seem to not understand how stat totals work in this game.

Ninian has -8 in level-1 stats for being a dancer, which is why her stats are lower then the others'.

The trainee dragons have trainee boosts on top of their normal class modifiers, which are a -8 in level-1 stats and a +30% to growth rates.

All of the dragons released from Myrrh onward also have "Gen 2" boosts. The non-fliers receive +1 in level-1 stats, and all of them receive +10% to growth rates.

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