Thany

Should there be big bosses in a fire emblem warriors sequel?

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I was talking about this with a group of people and it seems like something to wonder about, could a sequel work with having big bosses then just velezark ?

like if FE8, FE6, and FE10 were focuses, could we get big bosses like the demon king, Idoun, and Dheginsea? it would certainly be nice to have instead of Velezark only for big bossess.

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I'm glad they're not in, honestly. Just look at how Velezark gets handled here - spam dual strikes and Awakening until he goes down. It's rare you actually have to fight him with the proper mechanics.

 

Similarly, look at how they are in HW. They're generally considered a not very fun part of the game, and they're all over the place there. Fun the first time you fight them, but mostly they're more annoying than interesting. Granted, part of that is how you have to wait around until they do a thing that exposes their weak point in HW, while in FEW Velezark is more just "beat on him when you can", but still, Velezark isn't particularly fun or interesting most of the time either.

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N O

 

Okay, they can include the giant bosses as long as they're more like Velezark.  I'd take spam-to-death bosses over tedious ones any day of the week.  Just don't give us Hyrule Warriors giant bosses and I'll probably not complain.

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I feel if the bossess work like velezark and less like hyrule warriors bosses, it could work as long as they have a little something to them to be better, like a weakspot to hit to deal more damage, since its pointless if the giant bossess arnt a bit different from each other.

Edited by Thany

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The whole reason giant bosses exist in HW is as a reference to your standard Zelda bosses. Fire Emblem rarely has gargantuan foes, save as final bosses. And things like feral dragons, which are massive, could easily be made as generic Manaketes were it not for lil Tiki having the Dragonstone moveset tailored to her.

Although I'm not the most vehement critic of giant bosses in HW, I do think they could be made to work. Playing BotW makes me realize always fighting humanoids can get boring, but Musou isn't exactly built for fighting non-humanoids. The mechanics of the series need some serious modification to handle giant bosses, but at the same time they have to remain perfect for fighting what you'll be battling 99% of the time- humanoids. Mind you I haven't actually played FEW, so I can't say much of an improvement Velazquez is over HW giant bosses. 

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No. Just no. Giant Bosses worked in HW because of the type of series Zelda is. I very highly doubt that FE would make something like that work.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Honestly I don't want big bosses in FE warriors or it's sequel, unless it's done a lot better, because spamming attacks at it after already barely clearing a maps objectives and going over in time because of that is not something I'd enjoy, and while a part of FE, most of FE is warriors against warriors, so no giant bosses would make it better.

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its interesting reading these reactions, I feel like the bosses could be much better if it was done in a less tedious way, but I understand the many No I see.

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Fighting Velezark lost its gusto real quick, especially in the DLC maps where he's everywhere; such that it was always annoying after beating the main enemy hero of a map and seeing the HUD not disappear, which let me know that (with the exception of a few specific maps) I was about to fight Velezark again. And usually when I'm close to the 15-minute mark, DAMMIT! But my characters are so strong they easily take him down in less than 30 seconds.

So......I'd rather not have more of that in a sequel. In fact, I'd like to see more of the major human antagonists be major bosses with stronger movesets that require a bit of strategy to defeat; like, for instance, actually needing to block certain attacks to force an opening. I'd love to fight villains like Zephiel, Ashnard, Black Knight, Nergal, Hardin, etc. in such a fashion. And they all could be unlockable and playable in their own mode a la Ganondorf (at least if having them on the good side proves impractical as far as mid-battle character dialogue exchanges go).

 

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Maybe have the Dragon from FE7 but that's really the only one I can actually think of that doesn't feel wrong or that should be a playable character in some way. Maybe Ashnard because of how I can't see any pleasant conversations with him about joining forces or such (even though playing as him would probably be the most awesome thing ever).

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Instead of big bosses, they could have Lu Bu type of characters, that is terrifying force on the field, and appears invincible.

And there are plenty of characters in FE that could take Lu Bu’s role of invincible warriors. There’s Camus, Mathilda, Ishtar, Reinhardt, Seth, Jaffar, Ike, Black Knight, Grima-possed Robin, Ryoma and Xander. All these characters could be considered the Lu Bu of their games, hell, there’s a map in Warriors where Ryoma and Xander pretty act like Lu Bu and you have to avoid them.

Edited by Water Mage

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Nah, I don't really want MGS characters.

More seriously, Velezark's a slog without a full musou gauge and a complete joke with one; no thanks.

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I'd rather not include something that makes me single handedly rank Hyrule Warriors below several other Musou games.

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On 5/23/2018 at 9:41 PM, Baron the Shining Blade said:

Fighting Velezark lost its gusto real quick, especially in the DLC maps where he's everywhere; such that it was always annoying after beating the main enemy hero of a map and seeing the HUD not disappear, which let me know that (with the exception of a few specific maps) I was about to fight Velezark again. And usually when I'm close to the 15-minute mark, DAMMIT! But my characters are so strong they easily take him down in less than 30 seconds.

Have you tried fighting him in Story Mode with the Infernal Blessing and without killing the Dark Crystal Dragons?

Under those conditions, the fight was reminiscent of the Mobile Armors of the Gundam Warriors that couldn't really be cheesed at all and depending on which, can be decent to challenging to outright punishing that scales with the mission difficulty (Dark Gundam being the worst).  At that empowered state, the stagger system is outright ineffective until you reach the final  health bar(haven't tested without the blessing due to overleveling but if it's any indication...)

But really, in regards to FE:W, I can't help but think that reception towards Velezark (and big bosses, by extension) would be less negative if he didn't appear so often, and within a game mode where completion time separates an A from an S rank. That, and there's the general AI that leaves much to be desired, in how easily it is to dodge enemy attacks, which makes even human enemies seem like a joke.

If they treated big bosses like they did in the Gundam Warriors series, I'm all for it. Just let there not be only one.

Edited by Motendra

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I am more than fine with there being only one, just lower his appearence rate a bit.

 

Giant bosses were kind of th worst part of HW, honestly, and I'm glad the FEW had only one and had him very managable thanks to dual strikes and such.

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I don't think giant bosses are a fit for FE Warriors outside of the obligatory big bad endgame dragon.

Speaking purely about game mechanics in regard to Warriors games in general and not about the FE setting specifically, I'd be fine with giant bosses as long as they A) are mostly relegated to story mode and very rarely appear in adventure/history mode and B) play more like an actual boss battle, with you needing to use unusual tactics such as the terrain or specific weak spots to defeat them rather than just spamming attacks (FE Warriors) or waiting for them to randomly expose their weak point (HW Warriors).

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I'd actually love to see more giant bosses!  Yeah, Velezark was handled pretty poorly with how repetitive he could get, but that problem could actually be elevated with the addition of more dig bosses.  Imagine:

Grima: A boss so large that he creates a new platform in the center of the stage that you have to climb on to get up to him (or use a teleport or something), and once you're on him, it's a gauntlet of Risen until you finally get to his head, where you have to fight both the draconic head and the possessed Vessel of Robin.

Anankos: He's split into five parts like he is in Fates, so in order to get to his heart, you have to whittle him down like Ganon from Hyrule Warriors, but unlike Ganon, his heart (the humanoid form) can fight back.

Duma: A laser-firing, stomping, surprisingly mobile monstrosity that can only be dealt the final blow with an anti-dragon weapon (the map would make you select at least one Falchion/anti-dragon weapon wielder before you start), and who summons Witches and other magical units to aid him in battle.

The Dragon from FE7: Something other than a dark dragon, so they should emphasize the fire aspect of him.

Idunn: She's surprisingly easy when you get to her, but she's more of a supporting cannon for Jahn, who's more of the tanky fighter, and won't let you get to Idunn without killing him.

Fomortiis: Something that isn't a dragon, so he should definitely go in there.

Those are just a few ideas I have, but I think they could be really interesting if they were further fleshed out - I think big bosses have potential in FE Warriors, they just needed more variety (and maybe to be broken up by some more human-sized bosses...Where's Berkut when you need him ;n;)

Edit: I suck at spelling ;-;

Edited by Soleater

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1 hour ago, Soleater said:

I'd actually love to see more giant bosses!  Yeah, Velezark was handled pretty poorly with how repetitive he could get, but that problem could actually be elevated with the addition of more dig bosses.  Image:

Grima: A boss so large that he creates a new platform in the center of the stage that you have to climb on to get up to him (or use a teleport or something), and once you're on him, it's a gauntlet of Risin until you finally get to his head, where you have to fight both the draconic head and the possessed Vessel of Robin.

Anankos: He's split into five parts like he is in Fates, so in order to get to his heart, you have to whittle him down like Ganon from Hyrule Warriors, but unlike Ganon, his heart (the humanoid form) can fight back.

Duma: A laser-firing, stomping, surprisingly mobile monstrosity that can only be dealt the final blow with an anti-dragon weapon (the map would make you select at least one Falchion/anti-dragon weapon wielder before you start), and who summons Witches and other magical units to aid him in battle.

The Dragon from FE7: Something other than a dark dragon, so they should emphasize the fire aspect of him.

Idunn: She's surprisingly easy when you get to her, but she's more of a supporting canon for Jahn, who's more of the tanky fighter, and won't let you get to Idunn without killing him.

Fomortiis: Something that isn't a dragon, so he should definitely go in there.

Those are just a few ideas I have, but I think they could be really interesting if they were further fleshed out - I think big bosses have potential in FE Warriors, they just needed more variety (and maybe to be broken up by some more human-sized bosses...Where's Berkut when you need him ;n;)

Its nice to see some of these ideas, most of these ideas sound like the fit better in story mode rather then history mode tho. but still its pretty nice to read.

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5 minutes ago, Thany said:

Its nice to see some of these ideas, most of these ideas sound like the fit better in story mode rather then history mode tho. but still its pretty nice to read.

Probably, but that necessarily isn't a bad thing, looking at how lackluster story mode was in FE Warriors...I mean, I can't be the only one who thinks that the game only really starts when you get History mode.  *shrugs*

Though, if you can throw Velezark in every History mode map, I don't see why you can't throw in saaaaay Duma or the FE7 Dragon in other stages, but that's just me ^^

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On 5/23/2018 at 5:04 PM, Thany said:

its interesting reading these reactions, I feel like the bosses could be much better if it was done in a less tedious way, but I understand the many No I see.

I think giant bosses wouldn't work because in general, FE is rather lacking in the big bosses department (pretty much all gargantuan enemies are final bosses and/or dragons). That is not a lot of variety... especially compared to Zelda. As a result, I'd say it'd get stale quickly.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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Whether giant or not, I want more bosses that I actually need to read and counter, as opposed to just spamming a move or gauge against.

The lack of interesting opponents is pretty much the main reason I rank FEW below HW despite liking Fire Emblem far more than Zelda.

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25 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Whether giant or not, I want more bosses that I actually need to read and counter, as opposed to just spamming a move or gauge against.

The lack of interesting opponents is pretty much the main reason I rank FEW below HW despite liking Fire Emblem far more than Zelda.

Speaking from other Warriors game not having played FEW, I can see what you mean here. Officers on the lower difficulties do get chopped down almost effortlessly, which they more often require some effort in HW.

However, I do think HW went a little too far with making officers resistant to attacks sans WPS. It is very easy, and in cases almost guaranteed to lack the attack to deal good damage outside of WPSes to officers, you need to be highly leveled, have a lot of good attack skills, or an elementally effective weapon to smack officers for non-negligible damage. And given how effective just guarding taking no damage until the enemy exposes their weak point is, it isn't like countering them is all that difficult. The only challenge is a horde of officers.

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On 25/05/2018 at 2:09 AM, Motendra said:

If they treated big bosses like they did in the Gundam Warriors series, I'm all for it. Just let there not be only one.

I'd quite enjoy that. In fact, when you think about it, there are several ways to introduce giants in FEW as a new enemy type that could be summoned every so often.

A giant Stoneborn could be an interesting inclusion since they're not exactly small normally and the size of the one in Fates' opening could be an interesting view of it.

And since there's all sorts of magic and such in Fire Emblem what's to say that new things can't be done like enchanting a common monster class enemy and supersizing it?
Even then, I don't see why seem to have this whole mentality of "Final Bosses can't be mid-game enemies" when FEW already did something similar with Gharnef, Validar and Iago. Fine, they're not the final boss of their respective games but they all largely contribute to the buildup to it, being the biggest threat next to it. (Well, not Iago, but you see my point.)

There ARE things that can be done, and I'm sure they could be done well. It just means a little creativity on it.

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Weeeell.......on the one hand giant bosses can be a major pain in the neck, at the same time there are some giant bosses that exist within the various Fire Emblem universes that could be cool to fight. Such as the Demon King from Sacred Stones, Dhegnesia from Radiant Dawn, the Earth Dragon Gharnef from Shadow Dragon, the dark god Lopto in FE4, etc. and while not giant other bosses which would make for some stellar boss fights are king Ashnard from Path of Radianc, Emperor Hardin from FE3, Michalis from Shadow Dragon.

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