Games you expected to like but didn't/liked but not as much as you thought you would

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Fire Emblem Awakening

This game went two steps back after the Tellius series.
(I don't Count the Akaneia Remakes because they are Remakes)
The gameplay leaves to be desired. Classic defend chapters or seize / rout with turnlimit do not exist as some staves and ballista do not. This game is simplified dramatically. Of course it also has some new neat ideas like pair-up, but these are executed poorly. The (auto) skills in lunatic (+) shall equal pair-up. A really bad Try to balance these difficulties. I consider lunatic (+) only as fake difficulty. The story after Gangrel's defeat is poor, but these aren't news to me, and I don't play FE for its story anyways. This game is not entirely bad but it wasted tons of potential.



Final Fantasy 6

Tons of people praised me the FF series. 6 was someone's favorite, so I started with this. ... It became a disaster. There was one boss
 

Spoiler

 

I didn't get all what to do in the second phase. The blitz attack did nothing aside of hurting myself.
I could beat him in my like tenth attempt without knowing how.
Fun fact: I just noiced that this boss music is used in the FE romhack Midnight Sun.
Anyways this game did not appeal me - aside of the music - so tried to get into other JRPGs.

 

[Etrurian emperor]

13 hours ago, Rapier said:

Have you tried reading this LP and attempting a run as Munster/Ireland? Everyone who picked CK2 up struggled with it in the start, it has one of the worst learning curves possible (as does Europa Universalis 4 and Victoria 2), but after reading that LP and attempting a playthrough in Ireland you'll pick things up in a steady pace.

 

Oh,  yeah, I forgot one game to my list:

Persona 3: Everyone and their grandmothers kept telling me how Persona was cool and all, so I decided to give Persona 3 a try. It's not a bad game, it has an interesting premise, but it's gameplay simply bored me. I plan on reading a LP of it to see if I can endure it better that way, but as far as gameplay goes I found it uninteresting. I haven't progressed enough to know the characters, so that might have been it too.

I heard that Ireland, Poland and Bohemia were the easiest starting factions. Because Medieval Ireland kinda bored me I went with Bohemia but faced the same problem.  But at the time I didn't have a lets play at hand. 

[Tamanoir]

14 hours ago, Rapier said:

Persona 3: Everyone and their grandmothers kept telling me how Persona was cool and all, so I decided to give Persona 3 a try. It's not a bad game, it has an interesting premise, but it's gameplay simply bored me. I plan on reading a LP of it to see if I can endure it better that way, but as far as gameplay goes I found it uninteresting. I haven't progressed enough to know the characters, so that might have been it too.

I totally agree with this one

I stopped really close to the end game years ago,, and don't feel like going back. The story is cool, the character are truly great, the music is cool.

...But I have to finish this goddamn dungeon (It's the Tartarus), going through boring floors after boring floors, and... well, I can't. It's not only boring, but really long as well. I would have as much fun with reading a phone book.

I think reading a LP is a better option in this case honnestly.

[MacLovin]

Shining Force 2 was a good one to pick up, even though I have yet to finish it.

While Peter is broken as fuck, the game's still relatively fun. Shame that the archers are kinda mediocre in it.

Didn't expect to enjoy the SRW series as much as I did. Although I've only played OG1+2 and J.

 

Fate Grand Order was a nice surprise. The story's fun and the characters are fine. Didn't expect to get sucked into the franchise like this though.

 

 

A game that I really didn't expect to get sucked into was fucking Chroma Squad. It's just.....fun.

[DragonFlames]

4 hours ago, Tamanoir said:

I totally agree with this one

I stopped really close to the end game years ago,, and don't feel like going back. The story is cool, the character are truly great, the music is cool.

...But I have to finish this goddamn dungeon (It's the Tartarus), going through boring floors after boring floors, and... well, I can't. It's not only boring, but really long as well. I would have as much fun with reading a phone book.

I think reading a LP is a better option in this case honnestly.

That's exactly how I feel about Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse's final dungeon. It's just so boring and drags on and on and on... A shame, since the game itself is great.

Another game I want to add to my list - and I am very glad this isn't a Persona forum, otherwise I'd probably get slaughtered - is Persona 4 Golden.
Don't get me wrong, the game is great, the music is cool (except the odd rap track here and there and the dungeon themes) and the story is very interesting. It's just that I made the mistake to play this only after playing and finishing Persona 5. I have to say, Persona 5 improved many things over Persona 4, especially when it comes to the dungeon design. Persona 4's dungeons are just bland an uninteresting, in my opinion. Adding on to that is that the tracks in the dungeons themselves loop every few seconds, which gets annoying really quickly.
"Well, what about the characters?" I hear you ask. This is probably the game's biggest weakness for me. Three of the main characters are absolutely insufferable (namely Yosuke, Chie and Teddie), one gets annoying after a while and is probably only there so the lonely people playing (and Yosuke) have something to nut off to (namely Rise), and sadly, these four are the characters that tend to get the most focus. To me, characters make or break a story, hence why I honestly can't bring myself to play Fire Emblem Fates anymore, because the main cast is absolutely atrocious, but I digress.
Needless to say, I haven't finished Persona 4 and I honestly can't motivate myself to go back to it.

[Strullemia]

Darks Souls 2 is the only game that really comes to mind.

Lazy world building, cheap bosses, more hit detection issues, using a lot of enemies instead of using only a few enemies at once and no connected world. OH AND LET'S NOT FORGET THE SHRINE OF AMANA!! I played DS2 at launch and that place was easily worse than Blighttown ever was. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Hekselka

[Tuvy]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:04 PM, LuxSpes said:

 

In a way "this game is a not a good series 'x' game" is the opposing criticism to "games in this series are too formulaic" since the first criticism comes from people who want games in a series to stick to particular set of "gameplay rules" while the second one comes from people who want change in the series. 

Its like you took fire emblem, made it free roam with random encounters, and made the grid system hexagonal.

[Armagon]

8 hours ago, Czarpy said:

Shining Force 2 was a good one to pick up, even though I have yet to finish it.

While Peter is broken as fuck, the game's still relatively fun. Shame that the archers are kinda mediocre in it.

Didn't expect to enjoy the SRW series as much as I did. Although I've only played OG1+2 and J.

 

Fate Grand Order was a nice surprise. The story's fun and the characters are fine. Didn't expect to get sucked into the franchise like this though.

 

 

A game that I really didn't expect to get sucked into was fucking Chroma Squad. It's just.....fun.

Hey, just a head's up but i think you posted in the wrong thread. This is for games you'd thought you like but didn't/you did like them but not as much as you thought. Your post seems more suited for the "games you didn't expect to like" thread.

[ping]

On 29.5.2018 at 9:39 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Crusader Kings II

I always thought the Total War game could be a little bit bare bones when it came to their campaign. Its a lot of fun commanding huge armies and managing large empires but I wanted more. I wanted a fantastic politics system, have a larger amount of generals to manage and generally see the empire management aspect expended upon. Crusader Kings II had all of that and more.....so much more I immediately shut the game down when I realized there were far more options to ever keep track of. I repeatedly tried sitting down with the game only to get intimidated and boot up something simpler really quickly. 

CK2 is a weird case for me - I really, really enjoy Europa Universalis, so my first thought was "EU4 in an earlier timeframe with more internal focus? Sounds awesome!". But when I checked out some LPs, it looked more like a "hurr, hurr, I'm so evul" simulator to me. Kill your brothers, do horrible things in the name of religion, appoint a horse as your advisor and then eat it, castrate your prisoners, sacrifice 100 virgins to satan, isn't this fun?! I mean, some of the stuff is funny to see for the first time (I watched a developer's LP in which one of them ate the pope's husband. Due to a bug that they probably patched out immediately, but still), but I never saw anything that would keep me invested in the game.

I did try it out when the base game was given away for free recently, even with some success (started in Mume/Ireland, became king of Ireland and Scotland), but I didn't have the drive to continue when things got rough (pretender with more troops than I had, even including the mercenaries I would have been able to hire). I suppose it's not a bad game, but I'd much rather go for EU4 when I'm in the mood for some grand strategy. ;)

On 29.5.2018 at 8:15 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Rikku was fine in X. X-2 made her appearance and personality garbage though. Why on Spira did they think a Charlie's Angels-themed sequel was a good idea again? Salvation lay, if at all in gameplay sans MINIGAMES! alone here.

Rikku in X was a silly character in an honestly rather bleak setting. Her comedic relief scenes are a bit forced at times, but she generally makes sense as a character and I think that she bounces off of Tidus quite well. X-2 already has a very silly, so to keep Rikku being "The Silly One", they made her VERY silly to the point where sometimes one wonders if she has more than three brain cells in her head.

--

More on topic:
Final Fantasy VIII

I like pretty much all FF games of that era - V, VI, VII, IX, X - so I thought I would enjoy VIII as well.
Nope. I can't stand Squall as a main character. The player explores the ingame world through the protagonist and whenever said protagonist just goes "whatever." as soon as the world tries to interact with him, it just annoys me. Heck, even Cloud when he thought he was a big badass mercenary was cocky instead of completely aloof. I don't want to claim that Squall is a bad or unrealistic character as such, but he's just so damn frustrating to play as. :/ I've heard that he becomes better later in the game, but I never played far enough into it to register a change in his attitude.

Persona 3

I've played 4 (the non-golden variant) first, enjoyed it quite a bit, then started P3. Meh. I really dislike that you can't control your teammates and that there's an additional fatigue mechanism to limit your Tartarus explorations beyond HP/Mana restrictions, so I dropped this game pretty quickly, as well.

 

[Slumber]

12 minutes ago, ping said:

Fantasy VIII

I like pretty much all FF games of that era - V, VI, VII, IX, X - so I thought I would enjoy VIII as well.
Nope. I can't stand Squall as a main character. The player explores the ingame world through the protagonist and whenever said protagonist just goes "whatever." as soon as the world tries to interact with him, it just annoys me. Heck, even Cloud when he thought he was a big badass mercenary was cocky instead of completely aloof. I don't want to claim that Squall is a bad or unrealistic character as such, but he's just so damn frustrating to play as. :/ I've heard that he becomes better later in the game, but I never played far enough into it to register a change in his attitude.

I'll add that one of the nice bits of FFVIII is that it does explain why Squall is the way he is, and it addresses how his current situation is getting him to care about the world and people around him. I actually do think he's one of the better developed FF protagonists. But if you hate his initial antisocial, apathetic self, then yeah. Not much to latch on to until about halfway through disc 2 that put tiny moments he's had up until that point into perspective.

It's like the inverse with me and Tidus, though I actually played through all of X, so I know there's no real light at the end of that tunnel aside from him dealing with his daddy issues. Every other one of his flaws(At least the ones that annoyed the hell out of me) is still there and out in the open at the end of that game.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Slumber

[Re: The weirdo.]

Its a popular choice, but xenoblade 2. 

the gameplay wasn't as interesting, and i tired of the fanservice very quickly.

[ping]

11 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'll add that one of the nice bits of FFVIII is that it does explain why Squall is the way he is, and it addresses how his current situation is getting him to care about the world and people around him. I actually do think he's one of the better developed FF protagonists. But if you hate his initial antisocial, apathetic self, then yeah. Not much to latch on to until about halfway through disc 2 that put tiny moments he's had up until that point into perspective.

It's like the inverse with me and Tidus, though I actually played through all of X, so I know there's no real light at the end of that tunnel aside from him dealing with his daddy issues. Every other one of his flaws(At least the ones that annoyed the hell out of me) is still there and out in the open at the end of that game.

bolded: That's what people keep telling me - Squall's character comes together later in the game. But I've also been told (by different people, obviously) that the overall plot of the game becomes utterly stupid and convoluted on disc 2. ;)

in general: I'll be the first to admit that this is about personal preference. In my eyes, Squall just denies every potentially interesting character interaction. Zell is stoked that they passed the graduation? Squall: "Whatever." Quistis takes him to the prime make-out spot HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE? Whatever. (and don't expect me to come up with more examples - it's been some time since I've played ;) ) It might be consistent and realistic, but for me, it's neither fun nor interesting.

Meanwhile, Tidus, despite his faults, makes an effort to explore the world and interact with other characters, playable or not. Yes, he tends to be be loud, impulsive and boastful about it (as long as Jecht isn't mentioned) and tends to get into facepalm territory at times, but at least he does and says something other than "whatever" and internal judging. I'd rather have a thousand HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA's, thank you very much. ;)

(also, that scene is surprisingly dark in retrospective if you're as dumb as me and didn't pick up on the game's hints before that point, considering Yuna's "I want my journey to be full of laughter" line)

[Slumber]

51 minutes ago, ping said:

bolded: That's what people keep telling me - Squall's character comes together later in the game. But I've also been told (by different people, obviously) that the overall plot of the game becomes utterly stupid and convoluted on disc 2. ;)

in general: I'll be the first to admit that this is about personal preference. In my eyes, Squall just denies every potentially interesting character interaction. Zell is stoked that they passed the graduation? Squall: "Whatever." Quistis takes him to the prime make-out spot HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE? Whatever. (and don't expect me to come up with more examples - it's been some time since I've played ;) ) It might be consistent and realistic, but for me, it's neither fun nor interesting.

Meanwhile, Tidus, despite his faults, makes an effort to explore the world and interact with other characters, playable or not. Yes, he tends to be be loud, impulsive and boastful about it (as long as Jecht isn't mentioned) and tends to get into facepalm territory at times, but at least he does and says something other than "whatever" and internal judging. I'd rather have a thousand HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA's, thank you very much. ;)

(also, that scene is surprisingly dark in retrospective if you're as dumb as me and didn't pick up on the game's hints before that point, considering Yuna's "I want my journey to be full of laughter" line)

The point with Squall, though, is that his friends and eventually romantic interest basically coax him into being a well rounded person. 

FFVIII's story does get dumb, but I'd argue that it's not necessarily dumb in concept(I wouldn't argue, however), more just dumb in execution. The plot twist of the game basically comes out of nowhere, and buying the twist hinges on your ability to believe something that's hinted at once by a one-off NPC, and never brought up in the main story. There's also Irvine scenes that vaguely foreshadow it, but those scenes could have been telegraphing any number of things. 

If they integrated the reason why the plot twist matters into the plot, there'd probably be a whole lot less "Wow, this sure is stupid and out of nowhere" comments towards the twist. There are a number of ways it could have been executed better, but I don't inherently think it's a bad plot twist. 

As for Tidus, I'd actually argue that Tidus really doesn't interact well with Spira and most of the people around him. One of his first actions in the game is basically saying "Fuck your traditions" and nearly singlehandedly ends Yuna's pilgrimage before she can leave her goddamn home island. All because he heard she was in a room for a day. He had no details, and presumably the only thing going through his head was "BUT HOW CAN SHE PLAY BLITZBALL?!". And from then on, yes, he cares about Yuna and her pilgrimage, but every moment he can, he mentions how he just wants to go home and show everyone Zanarkand(Despite being told multiple times to not mention Zanarkand). Tidus' disregard for the world around him is a whole different flavor of shit. And while Squall eventually gets better in this regard, Tidus doesn't.

It was one of the things that really struck me when I replayed X years and years ago. Despite the puppy-dog demeanor and him always smiling, Tidus is a huge, inconsiderate asshole. The one moment of self-reflection I can think of is when he recalls how much of a jerk he must have seemed like when he was constantly prodding Yuna to cheer up and smile, which, as you said, is dark in hindsight. But again, notice that the only time he does this in regards to Yuna. All of the other awful shit he does in Spira? Never reflected upon, and we never get any sort of reasoning for why he's like this. He's just the type of guy who would tell everyone their religion is dumb(He's coincidentally right on this one, but this is divorced from the actual reason Yevon sucks), break all sorts of rules, encourage his friend to in-fight with his clan for saying mean things, and in general just boast to people that he's the most important sports star from the forbidden Holy Land every chance he gets, despite being told that it makes everyone upset. The biggest, non-spoilery revelation we get about his back story is that he hates his dad for being a self-centered drunk. At least Tidus didn't inherent the alcoholism. 

Tangent time: Compare him to Zidane from IX. Zidane is a similarly, happy-go-lucky type. He has his faults, as he's a horn dog teenage thief. He also genuinely wants to help people, has positive interactions in his world, and he's quick to realize when he goes too far. But unlike with Tidus, we learn that he's never felt like he's belonged in the world he loves, and he puts up a carefree attitude to cope. 

Spoiler

And when he learns that he's from another world, designed specifically to destroy Gaia, he's completely devastated. Literally and figuratively.

What we're shown of Zidane, we mostly love. And the parts we don't love are eventually explained and developed. Same idea with Squall, but the idea is more "Let's see if we can get you to love this apathetic mercenary". Tidus feels like the developers just wanted us to love him immediately, and accept that he won't change. 

I have a hard caring that Tidus has more to say in most situations than Squall. Because I just saw it done better in a previous game, and the things Tidus has to say are almost always baffling dumb. 

It's why I said that Tidus comes off as having the "inverse problem" as Squall. He may not have much to say initially, but I'd rather have somebody say nothing than constantly say something stupid. But I do accept that somebody who doesn't want to deal with a disc whole disc of trying to scrape the Teflon off Squall shouldn't feel as if they need to like him for getting better down the road. So sorry if it came off as "You shouldn't like Tidus, you should like Squall". I was more just trying to compare the two and explain why I like one and not the other. And since I don't want to spoil FFVIII, it ended up just becoming a Tidus rant. 

... At least Tidus is not racist. Thankfully we have Wakka for that. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Slumber

[Etrurian emperor]

9 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Tangent time: Compare him to Zidane from IX. Zidane is a similarly, happy-go-lucky type. He has his faults, as he's a horn dog teenage thief. He also genuinely wants to help people, has positive interactions in his world, and he's quick to realize when he goes too far. But unlike with Tidus, we learn that he's never felt like he's belonged in the world he loves, and he puts up a carefree attitude to cope. 

Zidane's my favorite of the FF main characters. But as for his faults, its not really commented on since it tend to be minor character but he's awful to NPC guards. He has a habbit of beating them up, one time doing it just so he could go flirt with Garnet. Then he locks the poor guy in a closet despite him being scared of the dark   I suppose Zidane is a good middle ground between the two typical FF main character archtypes of the Playstation era. He's cheery and happy like Tidus and Vaan but not exactly a dumb blonde like those two either, instead he's rather smart and cunning. Rather then a kid tagging along like those two he's more competent and clearly the lead most of the time. Like Squal and Cloud he got his own issue and self doubt, he's just not screaming it from the rooftops and using it as an excuse to be apathetic. 

 

[eclipse]

The fact that there's a goddamn debate over who is better between "go talk to a wall" Squall and "I lost my memories" Tidus should show how damn interesting the characters are.  As I haven't finished X or played VIII, I'm going to abstain from commenting on either of them (though I've lost the motivation to play the former because the story took a nosedive).

[Lief]

Fire Emblem Awakening

I was hyped for the playable avatar and being able to marry EVERY character in the lead up to its release, especially since I just got into FE through FE7 and FE8. While I still enjoyed Awakening, the map quality did nosedive after Pheros' map, and the story became more underwritten as well. In the end, I didn't enjoy it as much as Fates and SoV.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

FFVIII's story does get dumb, but I'd argue that it's not necessarily dumb in concept(I wouldn't argue, however), more just dumb in execution. The plot twist of the game basically comes out of nowhere, and buying the twist hinges on your ability to believe something that's hinted at once by a one-off NPC, and never brought up in the main story. There's also Irvine scenes that vaguely foreshadow it, but those scenes could have been telegraphing any number of things. 

If they integrated the reason why the plot twist matters into the plot, there'd probably be a whole lot less "Wow, this sure is stupid and out of nowhere" comments towards the twist. There are a number of ways it could have been executed better, but I don't inherently think it's a bad plot twist. 

 

And by plot twist you mean what exactly? I cleared FFVIII, but I can't recall quite what you mean. Is it

Spoiler

The Guardian Forces consume memories thing? That is out of nowhere, although I do consider it better than Rinoa becoming a Sorceress. And while it does play a plot role during the Time Compression at the end with them using the lighthouse as their foci to avoid being lost in the mess, it isn't a major one.

 

I might have said this before, but for me, it's Zell>Irvine>Quistis>Squall>>Selphie>>>>>Rinoa. Zell might be your standard young hotheaded punk, but he is also quite intelligent. Irvine and Quistis, well VIII doesn't really care about anyone not Squall-Rinoa (which I believe is why they said they dropped individual musical character themes for all the PCs), but they were likable enough. Selphie is out of place in VIII's world. Squall, yeah I can come to like and understand him outside of Rinoa, save for his very last decision. Rinoa started okay as a resistance leader, but once she melts into Squall's arms, she melts into the abyss of bad character- more offensive to me than practically anyone in X. At least Yuna had a noble mission and willingness to endure hardship and sacrifice apart from the awful romance.

As for FF protags as a whole, the whole first third of the series can be written off, more when you add the MMOs and Vaan probably. Cecil is a bit older and experienced than the norm, but I don't think IV in its old-fashioned ways is really driven by him at all, by Meteor Tellah has more personality than Cecil. Bartz is generic. Terra, well she is the Mystery Girl cliche in the protag role. She isn't bad, the problem is not until the beginning of the game does she have any humanity. She develops, but it's primitive development, because she hasn't really been conscious of her existence, "alive", until after the first boss is slain. I like her enough that I pity her fate in the original plans for the ending where she dies. Celes I don't recall really having enough screentime, if you consider her a second main protagonist in VI, to really develop, and certainly not Locke.

This leaves 7-15 to provide a real strong central protagonist. Cloud in VII itself is good, confident and badass on the surface, but a psychological issue beneath it (one not as complex as Fei Fong Wong's but still appreciable), and his fault of just constantly chasing after Seph-phir-ROTH! is given a fair, if plagued by poor word choice, explanation. Squall heads into edgelord territory, but he doesn't go there without reasoning behind it. Zidane and IX is like Ulysses- something I keep saying I get to, but haven't like half my gaming library. I'll leave the remaining ones unspoken of, primarily because I haven't played XII or XIII or XV.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[ping]

(little warning - I'll try to maneuver around FE10 spoilers, but I don't give any guarantees)

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

So sorry if it came off as "You shouldn't like Tidus, you should like Squall". I was more just trying to compare the two and explain why I like one and not the other. And since I don't want to spoil FFVIII, it ended up just becoming a Tidus rant. 

It's all good, as far as I'm concerned. ;) It's not my intention to convince you that Tidus were "better" than Squall, I just want to convey why I personally like him better. As a notice - I agree with you and @Etrurian emperor that Zidane is so much better than Tidus. Out of the PS1/2 protagonists, I'd list my preferences as Zidane > Cloud > Tidus > Vaan > Squall, although calling Vaan a "main character" is quite the stretch. He's just the kid with the camera. ;)

And yes, Tidus is a fucking moron and starts out extremely self-absorbed. But to be fair, dude's been neglected to an abusive degree by both of his parents (by his father because Jecht has a rather fucked-up plan how to make a child strong, and by his mother because from what little we see from her, she just didn't care about Tidus as much as about Jecht) and then became the Cristiano Ronaldo of Zanarkand, presumably getting his ego stroked at every street corner. I'm not a psychologist, but it doesn't surprise me that the kid likes everything being about himself.

About Tidus becoming better - there honestly isn't much opportunity for him to interact differently with anyone after The Reveal. Yuna takes over the story almost completely - right now, I can't think of any major interactions after this that aren't about her and/or about how to deal with Sin permanently. And Tidus doesn't exactly have any incentive to treat the Yevonites with any more respect than he used to. ;)

The way I see it, Tidus changes from "I want Yuna" to "I want to save Yuna", and after The Second Reveal, he even accepts very quickly that a future with Yuna isn't in the cards. It even mirrors Jecht coming to terms with that there's no way back for him and and his conclusion after that. The game honestly isn't super subtle about Jecht and Tidus going through similar development during their pilgramages. ;)

[DragonFlames]

As someone whose introduction to Final Fantasy was X, I can say this about Tidus (Tie-dus or Tee-dus? I always called him Tee-dus): He's in a completely different world from the one he knows, there's a religion he has no clue about and no one really bothers explaining things to him beyond "You can't do that" (except Wakka). And here's the thing: If you just keep telling people they aren't allowed to do something and then never bother explaining WHY it would be bad if they did it anyway, chances are they are going to ignore you.
He also stops talking about "his" Zanarkand to anyone but his companions when it is clear they start to believe him.
About him being inconsiderate about the whole pilgrimage thing: Why wouldn't he be? No one explained to him what the pilgrimage would eventually lead to, despite him making it VERY clear that he has no clue about stuff, so why should he know anything about anything? It's basically the same reason Luke in Tales of the Abyss is the way he is in the beginning of the game. He's ignorant, because he doesn't know and no one in his group ever bothers explaining stuff to him properly, despite the multiple times he asks for an explanation.

Then again, my favourite Final Fantasy game is Final Fantasy XII, so what worth does my opinion have?

[Lerandel]

I'm going with Might & Magic IX.  I was expecting to like it, unaware of its unreleased state, and just could not get into it. The game was understandably a pre-beta at best, and it shows. Both the publisher and developer went bankrupt during the development of this game, causing it to be released prematurely.

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

As someone whose introduction to Final Fantasy was X, I can say this about Tidus (Tie-dus or Tee-dus? I always called him Tee-dus): He's in a completely different world from the one he knows, there's a religion he has no clue about and no one really bothers explaining things to him beyond "You can't do that" (except Wakka). And here's the thing: If you just keep telling people they aren't allowed to do something and then never bother explaining WHY it would be bad if they did it anyway, chances are they are going to ignore you.
He also stops talking about "his" Zanarkand to anyone but his companions when it is clear they start to believe him.
About him being inconsiderate about the whole pilgrimage thing: Why wouldn't he be? No one explained to him what the pilgrimage would eventually lead to, despite him making it VERY clear that he has no clue about stuff, so why should he know anything about anything? It's basically the same reason Luke in Tales of the Abyss is the way he is in the beginning of the game. He's ignorant, because he doesn't know and no one in his group ever bothers explaining stuff to him properly, despite the multiple times he asks for an explanation.

Then again, my favourite Final Fantasy game is Final Fantasy XII, so what worth does my opinion have?

Spoiler

The problem is that he makes EVERYTHING about himself.

Yes, I'm aware he's in a world that's not his own(Sort of). But his lack of understanding the world around him is more him absolutely ignoring things people keep telling him and less him being awestruck by a culture and lifestyle completely different from his own. Yeah, he eventually stops mentioning Sin and Zanarkand, but after how hours of everybody telling him to stop, and after how many blank/baffled stares? And them not explaining why things are bad isn't an excuse. Either Tidus is COMPLETELY socially/mentally inept, or they flat-out just don't have rules in dreamfart Zanarkand whatever fiction the Fayth conjured him to have. If you go to a new country, no matter how culturally foreign, and somebody tells you "Hey, don't pee on our sacred statues", you don't go to pee on the statues anyway because they never explain why peeing on sacred statues are bad. You won't do it because any well-adjusted human can step back and see "Oh, whoops. They clearly care deeply for these sacred statues". Tidus gets told to not pee on sacred statues and starts chewing diuretics. I've NEVER seen a character in a fish-out-of-water story like him, and that's not a good thing. Not being told to do something, and then doing it anyway because nobody explained why you shouldn't is something kids do when they think they're being clever.

And him being inconsiderate comes back to it all being about him. He's mad that nobody told him about what the pilgrimage meant, but after and before he can reconcile this, he's still acting more or less the same way. He might be a little more considerate towards Yuna, but other than that he's the same old Tidus for most of the game, pretty much right up until the very end. So again, I don't think him being kept in the dark about a key detail suddenly excuses or explains his inconsiderate/selfish nature. I'm not even really mad here that he brings the attention back to himself when he can, I'm more mad at the ways he does it. He's just such a prick about somethings, and he's a prick with a stupid grin on his face, thinking he's being nice.

And again, it's made worse because I don't think the writers thought they were writing a character like this. I think they were trying to make Tidus a genuinely nice character who did silly, out-of-character things sometimes because he's stupid. "Oh look at him, he's acting like a monkey and taking peoples' things while the people on the ship are on the look out for a world-ending catastrophe that could attack at any moment. What a guy!"

Outside of just the things he does, there are a bunch of things narratively that all add up and rub me the wrong way about Tidus. Like him ultimately being written as a tragic character.

Anyway. Funny you mention FFXII. I've spent a lot of the last 12 years wondering if I like it or not. After playing the ZIJS version and eventually the Zodiac remaster, I think it's actually one of my favorite FFs.

That's basically a game that could go in both this thread, and the other, since I initially expected to like it, didn't really, then played the ZIJS expecting more rigid character progression to not add a whole lot, but actually ended up loving it.

So don't think your opinion isn't worthwhile because you like an unpopular FF. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Slumber

[DragonFlames]

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The problem is that he makes EVERYTHING about himself.

Yes, I'm aware he's in a world that's not his own(Sort of). But his lack of understanding the world around him is more him absolutely ignoring things people keep telling him and less him being awestruck by a culture and lifestyle completely different from his own. Yeah, he eventually stops mentioning Sin and Zanarkand, but after how hours of everybody telling him to stop, and after how many blank/baffled stares? And them not explaining why things are bad isn't an excuse. Either Tidus is COMPLETELY socially/mentally inept, or they flat-out just don't have rules in dreamfart Zanarkand whatever fiction the Fayth conjured him to have. If you go to a new country, no matter how culturally foreign, and somebody tells you "Hey, don't pee on our sacred statues", you don't go to pee on the statues anyway because they never explain why peeing on sacred statues are bad. You won't do it because any well-adjusted human can step back and see "Oh, whoops. They clearly care deeply for these sacred statues". Tidus gets told to not pee on sacred statues and starts chewing diuretics. I've NEVER seen a character in a fish-out-of-water story like him, and that's not a good thing. Not being told to do something, and then doing it anyway because nobody explained why you shouldn't is something kids do when they think they're being clever.

And him being inconsiderate comes back to it all being about him. He's mad that nobody told him about what the pilgrimage meant, but after and before he can reconcile this, he's still acting more or less the same way. He might be a little more considerate towards Yuna, but other than that he's the same old Tidus for most of the game, pretty much right up until the very end. So again, I don't think him being kept in the dark about a key detail suddenly excuses or explains his inconsiderate/selfish nature. I'm not even really mad here that he brings the attention back to himself when he can, I'm more mad at the ways he does it. He's just such a prick about somethings, and he's a prick with a stupid grin on his face, thinking he's being nice.

And again, it's made worse because I don't think the writers thought they were writing a character like this. I think they were trying to make Tidus a genuinely nice character who did silly, out-of-character things sometimes because he's stupid. "Oh look at him, he's acting like a monkey and taking peoples' things while the people on the ship are on the look out for a world-ending catastrophe that could attack at any moment. What a guy!"

Outside of just the things he does, there are a bunch of things narratively that all add up and rub me the wrong way about Tidus. Like him ultimately being written as a tragic character.

Anyway. Funny you mention FFXII. I've spent a lot of the last 12 years wondering if I like it or not. After playing the ZIJS version and eventually the Zodiac remaster, I think it's actually one of my favorite FFs.

That's basically a game that could go in both this thread, and the other, since I initially expected to like it, didn't really, then played the ZIJS expecting more rigid character progression to not add a whole lot, but actually ended up loving it.

So don't think your opinion isn't worthwhile because you like an unpopular FF. 

I do see and agree with a lot of your points about Tidus. He's far from being my favourite FF protagonist, either.

The thing that always stuck with me about FFXII is that it's vastly different from any game I had played up until that point. It's story and world feel a lot more grounded than most other JRPGs - the world especially is one of my favourites from any game I've ever experienced. I would legit want to live there.

[Slumber]

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I do see and agree with a lot of your points about Tidus. He's far from being my favourite FF protagonist, either.

The thing that always stuck with me about FFXII is that it's vastly different from any game I had played up until that point. It's story and world feel a lot more grounded than most other JRPGs - the world especially is one of my favourites from any game I've ever experienced. I would legit want to live there.

That's something Ivalice is known for. Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story and FFXII all tell very grounded stories, the world seems a lot more cohesive than... just about any FF story, and they manage to make the politics interesting, despite all of these games taking place in a very fantastical world.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

That's something Ivalice is known for. Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story and FFXII all tell very grounded stories, the world seems a lot more cohesive than... just about any FF story, and they manage to make the politics interesting, despite all of these games taking place in a very fantastical world.

Interesting is a pretty relative term. I could find Final Fantasy XII interesting, if anything bloody happened. But the entire game consists of the party walking around the world (instead of flying when they already have an airship) not getting involved in politics and not really doing much else.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I didn't want to answer this thread since games I dislike are often for conceited or otherwise personal reasons. Plus I genuinely enjoy a lot of bad games on a regular basis. Few things ever get to me and I'm not the type to have high expectations for any game. But after writing a bit I discovered I've definitely been burned in relatable ways. So here we go.

Resident Evil 6 - I was big into the Resident Evil series up until this game came out when I was in high school. It was Resident Evil 5, but committing the cardinal sin of taking itself too seriously. I'm sure I could have fun playing this co-op, the combat is still very goofy, but the lack of weapon upgrades or choosing what weapons to use really killed my single player engagement. Plus the game is just too damned long with all four campaigns considered. Like 20 hours. I guess that explains why they didn't make any moves to make a replayable experience.

Tales of Symphonia - My only experience with this series. I got forty to sixty hours into the game only holding right and pressing X (PS3 version) with maybe two or three game overs. I never played as the other characters either. Perhaps I am at fault for not willingly embracing the extent of the game's systems, but I felt like the game was just as disinterested in its mechanics. Pressing right and X is all the game had ever asked of me with its braindead encounters. The first act of the game was textbook Final Fantasy X in terms of plot and characterizations. The second act I wasn't really paying attention to the new characters and settings. Then they gave me the airship and world travel and I lost track of what I was supposed to be doing. I'm sure I could hop back in and finish that playthrough but I feel like I seen all this game has to offer. Trial after trial with no substance.

Every Kingdom Hearts spinoff -Why is 2 so great? Kingdom Hearts 2 Critical Mode is one of the most satisfyingly challenges in any action game I've played. Instead of just making enemies deal more damage while you deal less, Sora is given numerous incredible abilities at the start so that you can enjoy early game challenges with a seemingly late game character that just happens to die quickly. It's also very fun and engaging how all your drive forms, magic spells, and summon find a use within the game's encounters. And I do mean all of them. You are rewarded immensely for having great knowledge of the game's systems. And Kingdom Hearts spinoffs don't have this attention delivered to its combat, nor do they have a critical mode that does anything but tweak damage values. BBS and DDD have incredibly overpowered abilities you can craft and then spam to get through any encounter or superboss. Abilities like the Surge skills in BBS or Balloonra in DDD. Craft a full command deck of those and you're set. There's just no nuance to fights. I also hate that every spinoff besides BBS is just trying to retell KH1's story by reusing its worlds, characters, and enemies. These games are a chore to finish and I'm surprised that I did finish so many of them. Oh and I'm mad that I put down money on the PS3 versions of these games because wow those load times are atrocious. I wish I could trade them in for the PS4 versions that were actually optimized for the system.

Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon - I'm still trying and failing to enjoy this game. I did beat it start to finish when it came out, but I can't get past chapter 3 on my replays. It's so mediocre. So unambitious. So ugly to look at. All the new content added to the game is deliberately hidden from the player (gaiden chapters and the prologue). And why not include Book 2? This game is a worse value than the eight dollar download of FE3 on Japanese Virtual Console that I'm uncomfortably reminded we don't have. I see people make comparisons between Shadow Dragon and Echoes and it sets me off. You'd have to have no critical eye for video games if you think these games took the same approach to the source material.

Oh and as long as I'm posting here. Don't @ me. I don't want to "debate" my opinions with anybody.