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Merged Attack Stat vs Merged Magic Stat


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I'm planning an FE7 hack, and I decided to have hybrid classes such as Falcoknights with Staves, armored Battlemages that mix Axes and Anima, mounted Dark Knights using Lances and Darkness, and many more concepts. I was thinking, which would be more balanced, a merged Str/Mag in the form of one Power stat, or a merged Magic/Resistance stat just like in FE5? To be honest, I'd go with the latter as it makes more sense than having one's physical strength and magical ability be equal. What do you guys think?

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Forgive my lack of experience with rom-hacking, but is it not possible to just separate Strength and Magic into two stats? I'd figure that would be the best option.

If you were set on merging two stats, though, I'd go for merging Magic/Res. I haven't played FE5, but I feel like that'd be more balanced than combining Str/Mag into a single Power stat. With mixed weapon type classes in other games, the units in them are balanced (for their games) because you can't hit just as hard with a sword as with magic (usually). And as you said, it would be a bit weird IC for physical strength to be the same as magic ability.

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1 hour ago, alatartheblue42 said:

Forgive my lack of experience with rom-hacking, but is it not possible to just separate Strength and Magic into two stats? I'd figure that would be the best option.

If you were set on merging two stats, though, I'd go for merging Magic/Res. I haven't played FE5, but I feel like that'd be more balanced than combining Str/Mag into a single Power stat. With mixed weapon type classes in other games, the units in them are balanced (for their games) because you can't hit just as hard with a sword as with magic (usually). And as you said, it would be a bit weird IC for physical strength to be the same as magic ability.

FEBuilder is incompatible with the Str/Mag split hack. Also, yeah, the Mag/Res merge makes sense.

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1 hour ago, alatartheblue42 said:

it would be a bit weird IC for physical strength to be the same as magic ability.

Not necessarily for magic users as they could hypothetically channel magical energies into their muscles as opposed to their weapons to get physical results. However given most of the series' handling of melee/magic then it stands to reason that individuals have to dedicate their lives to a practice of one or the other for the best results. Those that mix are typically gifted individuals like Odin, Mist or Robin.

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14 minutes ago, Light Strategist said:

Not necessarily for magic users as they could hypothetically channel magical energies into their muscles as opposed to their weapons to get physical results. However given most of the series' handling of melee/magic then it stands to reason that individuals have to dedicate their lives to a practice of one or the other for the best results. Those that mix are typically gifted individuals like Odin, Mist or Robin.

That works, but not the other way around. So I think Mag/Res is the way to go.

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I really don't like the idea of the same stat determining magic and strength. I'm okay with it in Heroes where units will only ever have one weapon, but in GBA it just felt like classes were being limited in what they could do with it. While in Gaiden it just seemed weird to have frail priestess dealing massive damage with sword attacks. Or that equipping a sword increased power but doesn't(?) increase magic attacks even though they work of the power stat (to be honest, that'd feel weird either way).

I wouldn't like the combined Magic Res stat to be a standard for the series, however, I do find it interesting for an occasional game here in there. Especially in the way you can use Barriers or Holy Water to super charge your mages briefly. It made those items much more desirable when they're usually throw aways.

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37 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I really don't like the idea of the same stat determining magic and strength. I'm okay with it in Heroes where units will only ever have one weapon, but in GBA it just felt like classes were being limited in what they could do with it. While in Gaiden it just seemed weird to have frail priestess dealing massive damage with sword attacks. Or that equipping a sword increased power but doesn't(?) increase magic attacks even though they work of the power stat (to be honest, that'd feel weird either way).

I wouldn't like the combined Magic Res stat to be a standard for the series, however, I do find it interesting for an occasional game here in there. Especially in the way you can use Barriers or Holy Water to super charge your mages briefly. It made those items much more desirable when they're usually throw aways.

Huh, I haven't thought of that. I guess that's cool. Okay, I've decided that I'm going the Mag/Res route. If you think about it Gen 1 Pokémon had merged Mag/Res in the form of one Special stat.

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9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well Thracia just called it magic.

Yes, this was what I was planning. Calling it Resistance would be less fitting.

Also, @KnightOfNohr, didn't you volunteer to be my beta reader a while back? You haven't opened your connections yet.

So far, the hybrid classes I'm planning in my hack include:

Battlemage - Armored sorcerers that mix Axes with Anima. Promotes from Heavy (Axe Armor Knight).

Falcoknight - Pegasus riders that use Lances and Staves. Promotes from Pegasus Knight. (they'll make great healers with their naturally high Res)

Dark Knight - Riders who mix spears with spells. Promotes from Squire (Soldier) and uses Great Knight sprites.

Paladin - Holy warriors who wield divine Light to augment their martial prowess. Promotes from Cavalier.

Mage Knight - Versatile knights on horseback who use swords, spells, and staves. Promotes from Guardsman (sword infantry with a knightly flavor).

Adventurer - Wanderers who specialize in dealing and healing arrows in the knee. Promotes from <haven't decided>.

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Me personally I'm a fan of a single attack stat. Especially when it concerns hybrid classes which CAN be cool but depending on the game usually end up being good only at one of their weapon types. I really like the sound of sorceror like class that can wield axes that sounds awesome.

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Just now, SavageVolug said:

Me personally I'm a fan of a single attack stat. Especially when it concerns hybrid classes which CAN be cool but depending on the game usually end up being good only at one of their weapon types. I really like the sound of sorceror like class that can wield axes that sounds awesome.

Basically, the Battlemage class is a soldier of an army who can use both axes and anima to complement their armor. I got that idea from the Elder Scroll series.

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19 minutes ago, KnightOfNohr said:

I...don't know how to open connections.

Got to your account, click DocX, click Connections, the input the user you want to connect to, there you go,

Also, would you like your OC (James) to appear in the hack? I'll need his growth rates, class, and personality. I'm on a shortage of character ideas.

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A compromise suggestion I thought of is to have merged Magic and Resistance, but it's averaged with Strength on offense. Basically,

Attack (Physical) = Str + Weapon Mt
Attack (Magic) = (Str+Mag)/2 + Tome Mt
Defense (Physical) = Def
Defense (Magic) = Mag

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Hey, if GBABuilder works by just replacing a stat, couldn't one replace con with Magic to have true hybridization without any merged stats (I mean, you'd lose Con, which I care about, but the majority doesn't). Of course given Con doesn't have growth rates (or does it? It appears on the level up screen, maybe every character just has a 0% con growth) you'd have to assign it to resistance and make it a static stat like in Gaiden.

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3 hours ago, X-Naut said:

A compromise suggestion I thought of is to have merged Magic and Resistance, but it's averaged with Strength on offense. Basically,

Attack (Physical) = Str + Weapon Mt
Attack (Magic) = (Str+Mag)/2 + Tome Mt
Defense (Physical) = Def
Defense (Magic) = Mag

 

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Hey, if GBABuilder works by just replacing a stat, couldn't one replace con with Magic to have true hybridization without any merged stats (I mean, you'd lose Con, which I care about, but the majority doesn't). Of course given Con doesn't have growth rates (or does it? It appears on the level up screen, maybe every character just has a 0% con growth) you'd have to assign it to resistance and make it a static stat like in Gaiden.

Both these options require complicated ASM, while the Mag/Res thing alreadt comes from a nifty little patch I found a few years ago. I think Mag/Res is now the way to go.

Now all I need is for a mod to cloae this thread.

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