Ideas For Book 3

[Dandy Druid]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

None of those things particularly contribute to the Loki like personality though. People say she's a trickster but she hasn't really deceived or betrayed anyone, just worked for Surtr. I suppose she'll betray him soon, but as of yet all she's really done is cosplay as Anna and foreshadow an arc she might as well have been absent from.

I see your point there. She's been pretty underwhelming despite being named after a mythological trickster. Mischievous would probably be more apt, since all she really does is just tease people. A better name for her could have been Sigyn, Angrboda, Freya, or Hnoss for different reasons.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Dandy Druid

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

A better name for her could have been Sigyn, Angrboda, or Freya for different reasons.

It has been taken already in FE by the lady in the lower left corner:

Spoiler

Arvis would be very angry to see a woman with his mother's name dressed like that.

Although to be fair, we have two Arthurs already and a case of Altena and Athena. Unless Altena is Artena, which is to say a corruption of Artemis, who actually is also already used in FE.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It has been taken already in FE by the lady in the lower left corner:

  Hide contents

Arvis would be very angry to see a woman with his mother's name dressed like that.

Although to be fair, we have two Arthurs already and a case of Altena and Athena. Unless Altena is Artena, which is to say a corruption of Artemis, who actually is also already used in FE.

It's hardly like Cigyun would ever stand a chance of getting into Heroes. I'd probably vote her as least likely out of every plot relevant character. Even Victor could wield Valflame. Although some kind of Loptyr posessed Cigyun could be cool, albeit totally noncanonical. It would be nice to see what she's like (one probably assumes Deirdre clone, but she could be pretty different, she had an abusive husband and an affair that caused her to break the cardinal rule of her people. That's pretty intense), but yeah, she's never getting into Heroes.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

It's hardly like Cigyun would ever stand a chance of getting into Heroes. I'd probably vote her as least likely out of every plot relevant character. Even Victor could wield Valflame. Although some kind of Loptyr posessed Cigyun could be cool, albeit totally noncanonical. It would be nice to see what she's like (one probably assumes Deirdre clone, but she could be pretty different, she had an abusive husband and an affair that caused her to break the cardinal rule of her people. That's pretty intense), but yeah, she's never getting into Heroes.

Oh, I wasn't arguing for her inclusion, only pointing out Sigyun the name has already been used once. If there was a mature woman NPC who I wanted playable in FEH (not like there are many), it'd be Almedha, she did threaten to kill Micaiah ya know. And she is apparently rather strong according to Tibarn. Just pretend she got her powers back. A female Black Dragon shouldn't look too different from a male if Ena vs. the rest of the Reds is anything to go by.

This reminds me, what exactly would have driven Victor to suicide upon her running away? I'm not sure he found out about the Kurth affair from what little has been said of this piece of backstory. Did he actually feel guilt for all of his abuse and sexual misconduct? Did he actually regret no longer having her in his life? Or was the realization an object he owned had escaped from him was so absurd to his egotistical senses it drove him mad?

[Dandy Druid]

13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It has been taken already in FE by the lady in the lower left corner:

  Reveal hidden contents

Arvis would be very angry to see a woman with his mother's name dressed like that.

Although to be fair, we have two Arthurs already and a case of Altena and Athena. Unless Altena is Artena, which is to say a corruption of Artemis, who actually is also already used in FE.

Yeah I was skeptical to say Sigyn at first because the name was taken, but then I thought of Arthur (and Artur), and ruled that Sigyn is obscure enough to have her name taken.

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's hardly like Cigyun would ever stand a chance of getting into Heroes. I'd probably vote her as least likely out of every plot relevant character. Even Victor could wield Valflame. Although some kind of Loptyr posessed Cigyun could be cool, albeit totally noncanonical. It would be nice to see what she's like (one probably assumes Deirdre clone, but she could be pretty different, she had an abusive husband and an affair that caused her to break the cardinal rule of her people. That's pretty intense), but yeah, she's never getting into Heroes.

I think she'll be a lot like Nyna personality-wise. She's just a tragic figure from what we seen, stuck with an abusive man while being in love with another. 

Theoretically, they could make her a red tome unit and have her use dark magic. Or make her a staff user if she would be the same class as her daughter and granddaughter.

[Sunwoo]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This reminds me, what exactly would have driven Victor to suicide upon her running away? I'm not sure he found out about the Kurth affair from what little has been said of this piece of backstory. Did he actually feel guilt for all of his abuse and sexual misconduct? Did he actually regret no longer having her in his life? Or was the realization an object he owned had escaped from him was so absurd to his egotistical senses it drove him mad?

He was a massive hypocrite who thought it was his right to have multiple affairs but that his wife had no such right and that she'd shamed him.

[Jotari]

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Oh, I wasn't arguing for her inclusion, only pointing out Sigyun the name has already been used once. If there was a mature woman NPC who I wanted playable in FEH (not like there are many), it'd be Almedha, she did threaten to kill Micaiah ya know. And she is apparently rather strong according to Tibarn. Just pretend she got her powers back. A female Black Dragon shouldn't look too different from a male if Ena vs. the rest of the Reds is anything to go by.

This reminds me, what exactly would have driven Victor to suicide upon her running away? I'm not sure he found out about the Kurth affair from what little has been said of this piece of backstory. Did he actually feel guilt for all of his abuse and sexual misconduct? Did he actually regret no longer having her in his life? Or was the realization an object he owned had escaped from him was so absurd to his egotistical senses it drove him mad?

He did find out and didn't take it well. The fact that it was the Prince, the monarch he was supposed to serve that had cucked him probably made it sting twice as bad. From his perspective, how could he ever respect the future king when he knows he's banged his wife? He wrote a suicide note denouncing them both.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Jotari

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

35 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Yeah I was skeptical to say Sigyn at first because the name was taken, but then I thought of Arthur (and Artur), and ruled that Sigyn is obscure enough to have her name taken.

I think she'll be a lot like Nyna personality-wise. She's just a tragic figure from what we seen, stuck with an abusive man while being in love with another. 

Theoretically, they could make her a red tome unit and have her use dark magic. Or make her a staff user if she would be the same class as her daughter and granddaughter.

Hardin wasnt abusive. Heck hes the furthest you could get from that. Comparing who is arguably the kindest person in Archanea to Victor is insulting to the former

The story with him is literally he was basically the ideal king to the point that he manage to restructure Archanea in a ridiculously unrealistic pace and then he noted that Nyna was very distant from him. He wasnt chosen as the king entirely because Marth have Caeda- he is picked because of the 2 candidate, hes the one who shouldnt have any emotional baggage to deal with

Before he was crowned as the king of Archanea, Hardin was the one who protected Nyna for 3 years while at the same time preparing the Archanean League while defending Aurelis from Macedon

Even in FE3 itself theres a reason why Marth's goal was not to kill but to save Hardin. The thing with the conflict in FE3, just about everyone who knows the truth(Boah, Marth, and Nyna) realized Hardin is the victim of the situation. That is why when we met Nyna at the end of the game, she cried her heart out for ruining Hardin

Neither Nyna and Marth is exactly on the wrong mind, the closest one to that is Boah, who mostly represents what it means to be a royalty

Edited June 8, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Sunwoo]

You know, things like that make it sad that we can't save Hardin or Lyon or Julius or a certain Hoshidan ...

But we can save Idoun and Ashera. I sense something.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

12 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

You know, things like that make it sad that we can't save Hardin or Lyon or Julius or a certain Hoshidan ...

But we can save Idoun and Ashera. I sense something.

I mean im pretty sure you get the joke but

 

Nahh you need to be a tsundere asshole to be saved, and get a continent to conquer as a prize

 

In fairness Hardin is basically past the point of no return(the Gra chapter accentuates this) while that asshole was always viewed in a good light

Edited June 8, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Dandy Druid]

10 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Hardin wasnt abusive. Heck hes the furthest you could get from that. Comparing who is arguably the kindest person in Archanea to Victor is insulting to the former

The story with him is literally he was basically the ideal king to the point that he manage to restructure Archanea in a ridiculously unrealistic pace and then he noted that Nyna was very distant from him. He wasnt chosen as the king entirely because Marth have Caeda- he is picked because of the 2 candidate, hes the one who shouldnt have any emotional baggage to deal with

Before he was crowned as the king of Archanea, Hardin was the one who protected Nyna for 3 years while at the same time preparing the Archanean League while defending Aurelis from Macedon

Even in FE3 itself theres a reason why Marth's goal was not to kill but to save Hardin. The thing with the conflict in FE3, just about everyone who knows the truth(Boah, Marth, and Nyna) realized Hardin is the victim of the situation. That is why when we met Nyna at the end of the game, she cried her heart out for ruining Hardin

Neither Nyna and Marth is exactly on the wrong mind, the closest one to that is Boah, who mostly represents what it means to be a royalty

I never stated Hardin was abusive. The only thing I said was that Cigyn would probably be similar to Nyna in terms of personality. It was never my intention to compare Victor to Hardin, because I also see Hardin as a tragic character with Victor being more pitiful than anything. I can see where my word choice caused the confusion though, but that statement after the Nyna comparison was only to be applied to Cigyn. I'm sorry for the confusion.

Although I will argue about the kindness thing. Lena was definitely the most congenial person in Archanea, helping the sick and poor because she had the power to do so. Hardin didn't do all of those things for Aurelius out of kindness, he did them out of duty first and foremost. Not saying it was only duty- kindess may have factored in- but there's no doubt that it would've been done regardless. He's still pretty noble though, and was kind during the War of the Shadows. But the kindest? I think it's Lena.

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

You know, things like that make it sad that we can't save Hardin or Lyon or Julius or a certain Hoshidan ...

But we can save Idoun and Ashera. I sense something.

Well in defense of egalitarianism, Ashera isn't actually saved, Ashunera is. The being that Ashera was, her thoughts, opinions and feelings was effectively erased to create Ashunera. Ashera and what she stood for was basically the poison in the equation that needed to be eradicated. She still exists in some form, but not as the same individual. A pretty different situation to Idoun or any imagined scenario where Hardin, Lyon or Julius get unpossessed. Destroying the identity of Ashera also came with the caveat of killing the relatively benign Yune.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

But we can save Idoun and Ashera. I sense something.

Ashera really wasn't "saved" though, and not for her own sake. Ashera was "killed", and either 200 or 1000 years later (the language of the post-credits scene makes it unclear) Ashunera returned, Ashera post-defeat somehow reuniting peacefully with Yune.

Killing Ashera would have been a terrible idea that Yune would have opposed, since she says she likes her. The whole point to the Thousand Year Covenant was to convince Ashera Yune did not need to be destroyed, as Lehran and the Three Heroes felt that doing so was unthinkable for some reason. And Part 4 RD, particularly the Hawk Army, makes it clear to the heroes that living beings need Chaos and Order- that which Ashera is supposed to represent.

Not obliterating Ashera was for the sake of the balance of Order and Chaos, and also happens to have let Ashunera return (none of them admittedly expected this), and bringing back the once great mother goddess is a greater good for the world than bring back a lone Divine Dragon, or some promising princes/emperor.

[Sunwoo]

The point was that Ashera is basically restored to her true self in the best ending where everyone survives. It just seems more than a wee bit coincidental on which two instances where the final boss doesn't completely die are.

[Jotari]

33 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

The point was that Ashera is basically restored to her true self in the best ending where everyone survives. It just seems more than a wee bit coincidental on which two instances where the final boss doesn't completely die are.

Well to nitpick, Medeus and Duma don't completely die either (and Mila doesn't get saved). Loptyr will always be out there in some form too. Those Earth and Divine dragons are basically indestructible. We had a thread about it a while back.

[Sunwoo]

Dragons are honestly kind of boring.

Also, don't get me wrong, I actually don't take as much issue with Ashera/Ashunera coming back 1200 years after the game, since she is actual divinity. It's just kind of coincidental.

[Interdimensional Observer]

19 hours ago, Lewyn said:

4. We realize through Helbindi how savage Muspell is and how difficult it is to make a living.  

Should have commented on this sooner, but I'm getting a little tired of poor resources villain nations. First Fates, then SoV, now FEH. 

To be fair, SoV is a remake of a game whose barebones plot did say Rigel was scarce, so they had to abide by that. So really, it has only been two new games in a row, but if FE16 has a poor resource foe and it isn't written well, then the idea is officially overused in FE.

Nor shall I ignore that the Kingdom of Thracia exists in Jugdral, Ilia's frozen soils demand mercenary work, Jehanna does too but for reasons of sand, and Daein isn't the most hospitable of countries either.

However! There is a difference with the not-Thracia other instances. Ilia and Jehanna are never primary villains, so they are a little more low-key about its dearth of food, they don't hog the plot.

Daein for whatever issues it may have due to clime and terrain, is never characterized solely as being a wasteland of struggle, it might not be as warm and cozy as Crimea or as big and diverse as Begnion, but it isn't that a terrible place to live. Micaiah is never heard speaking of how her army or people are on the verge of starvation. As for PoR Daein invasion- it happens over the course of the winter in a nation where presumably a lot of the grain is going to the war effort, starvation there is expectable. And I would argue the food issues there exist less to make a point about Daein life, as it is to humanize the enemy of PoR. Ashnard wasn't directly motivated by poverty to commence his Social Darwinistic schemes anyhow (at most, being raised in the culture of Daein would have indirectly leaned him that way- but we see plenty of ordinary Daeinians from across society who seem not to be at all like that).

If there is any country in Tellius that is resource poor, it would be Goldoa, described in the Recollections as desert. Yet Goldoa being at very most a couple thousand rugged dragons who can live for centuries, it should be within its comfortable carrying capacity. Goldoa is akin to Dolhr in Archanea, also described as being poor lands, but a Manakete population presumably even if forced onto such lands don't require the same resource consumption as humans owing to fewer numbers and greater natural resiliency. 

You don't even need resource dearth for a mercenary nation. Kilvas is a mercenary nation, but its lands according to the Recollections are fertile; although the Bird Tribe doesn't engage in agriculture, just hunter-gather living. King Kilvas's ambitions according to PoR (before the Backstab Pact), are driven simply by a desire to expand his tiny island nation.

 

12 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Dragons are honestly kind of boring.

By this point, the series has overused them in unimaginative ways recently. Duma and Mila were better left as gods. And honestly, turning Naga into what FE13 did with her is starting to attract my distaste. Jugdral is cool since the dragons are only there in the remote background- all that exists of them as being presently is the soul-tomes of Forseti and Loptous- and the conflict is rather human beyond that. Goldoa of course has the best integrated group of dragons in all of FE, since the pedestal they stand on is palpably lower than in previous games. They're the only still living dragon civilization we ever see at all.

 

13 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

But the kindest? I think it's Lena.

Indeed she is, she is the number one source of employment for veterans of the War of the Heroes. Lena's Convent Orphanage™ employs herself, Julian (who is never officially said to marry her in his ending- what?), Minerva, Maria, and probably half of the rest of the Archanean cast either work part-time for it or volunteer. By the time of Grima's coming out party, the megacharity has been corrupted into a giant fraud where your money is used by a cult to unlock the Dragon's Table so Grima can munch on Medeus and his fellow Earthies locked away underneath.

[SSbardock84]

New characters such as the Muspell girls, Fjorm's brother (expecting him sooner), and Veronica. I'm also expecting Bruno to return, but not as a playable character. Honestly, I don't know beyond that. Shifting/moving map sounds interesting and probable. If we're still playing maps in Muspell, I'd like to see the feature of getting injured from fire on certain spots return. If there's a fire kingdom and an ice kingdom, then shouldn't there be an earth and wind kingdom? Maybe not, but if so I'd like to see those.

[Sunwoo]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

By this point, the series has overused them in unimaginative ways recently. Duma and Mila were better left as gods. And honestly, turning Naga into what FE13 did with her is starting to attract my distaste. Jugdral is cool since the dragons are only there in the remote background- all that exists of them as being presently is the soul-tomes of Forseti and Loptous- and the conflict is rather human beyond that. Goldoa of course has the best integrated group of dragons in all of FE, since the pedestal they stand on is palpably lower than in previous games. They're the only still living dragon civilization we ever see at all.

Goldoa's dragons were honestly pretty well integrated into the game. Mostly because the dragons in Tellius weren't divinity or godlike beings, they were just an exceptionally powerful and long-loved tribe of laguz.

I take back some of what I said. Dragons being the equivalent of gods or divinity and having reality warping or godlike powers in FE is what is boring and overdone.

[Ice Dragon]

21 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although to be fair, we have two Arthurs already and a case of Altena and Athena. Unless Altena is Artena, which is to say a corruption of Artemis, who actually is also already used in FE.

Altenna's name is a portmanteau of Artemis and Athena and mirrors her adoptive brother Areone's name being a portmanteau of Ares and Orion.

[Sentinel07]

Way things are going, I'm guessing Book 2 has quite a ways to go, assuming it's going to encompass the entire Nifl vs. Muspell plot.

[Dandy Druid]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Indeed she is, she is the number one source of employment for veterans of the War of the Heroes. Lena's Convent Orphanage™ employs herself, Julian (who is never officially said to marry her in his ending- what?), Minerva, Maria, and probably half of the rest of the Archanean cast either work part-time for it or volunteer. By the time of Grima's coming out party, the megacharity has been corrupted into a giant fraud where your money is used by a cult to unlock the Dragon's Table so Grima can munch on Medeus and his fellow Earthies locked away underneath.

Lena and Julian were never explicitly stated to marry? Oh yeah, I guess they weren't. Well I guess it's implied then. Lena is the Patron Saint of Employment.

And man... that second half sounds similar to some "charity companies" in real life...

[Othin]

35 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

Way things are going, I'm guessing Book 2 has quite a ways to go, assuming it's going to encompass the entire Nifl vs. Muspell plot.

The notification board described this as the climactic battle of Book 2, so I don't think so.

We may still have a couple of chapters of Book 2 left, though. Book 1 still had chapters after the climactic battle with Veronica.

[Jotari]

43 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Altenna's name is a portmanteau of Artemis and Athena and mirrors her adoptive brother Areone's name being a portmanteau of Ares and Orion.

Huh, so the really Engrishly sounding Artena is more accurate...I think I'm just going to stick to calling her Altena though. Artena sounds a bit strange.

[Midnox]

A very needed request for book 3: PLEASE, KILL THAT GENERIC ASSHOLE WHO'S CRUEL FOR THE LULZ ALREADY