Who deserves to be in the game the most?

[Icelerate]

Kris is easily the most deserving character not released that should be put into Heroes. Robin and Corrin have many versions yet the progenitor of the avatar system has zilch? That's preposterous! Also people keep on saying that all the main characters in Heroes are in but that's simply not true. The title of FE12 is New Mystery of the Emblem: Heroes of Light and Shadow. The title even references Kris, so in terms of importance, I don't see how he's less important than the likes of Lyn who most would agree is a main character. 

[Astellius]

I'd say Kris definitely deserves to be in the game, by virtue of being a main character for one of the games. That's an established and objective criterion. And they need to add both a male and female Kris.

Beyond Kris, I also say Selkie, for two reasons. First, we need beast units in the game, that's pretty clear to everyone. Second, she's the highest ranked character in the CYL 2 poll that's not in the game. That ought to be worth something, and, if there's another Farfetched banner sometime soon, she really should be on it.

I think there should be Laguz as well, and, were I to pick one, it would probably be Tibarn.

Binding Blade needs more new units. Milady would be a good candidate, in my opinion.

[MacLovin]

where the fuck is marcus.

like he's in two games. 

 

 

also i really want to see the hasha no tsurugi characters in some way. even if they're obscure, it's a nice reference.

[Icelerate]

FE6: Rutger, Milady and Marcus

FE7: Nils, Pent, Louise, Marcus and Erk

FE8:  Duessel, Cormag and Caellach.

Tellius: Ranulf, Tibarn, Haar and Jill

Edited June 7, 2018 by Icelerate

[SniperGYS]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

So for a long time we didn't have Leif in this game and it was really weird. Lesser characters from his very own game were getting in before him. It was pretty much accepted that he was the most deserving character that hadn't been added yet. So, now that Leif has been in for a few months, who is the new Leif? Of all the characters (or even alts, like Shield of Seals Marth perhaps) who are not in the game, who do you think should be.

Kliff

[JokesoftheMonth]

I’ve wanted Shinon in since they added Ike in. I’d like some other bow units to use besides B!Lyn and F!Takumi. But uh, other units I want in are

FE6:Dieck, Lugh, Murdock could be an Axe Armored Unit GHB, Rutger.

FE7: Nergal should be in by now, Marcus(This version is probably much more well known), Oswin should be here for being the best Armor Knight in the GBA games, and Erk would be nice.

FE8: Selena would be a nice GHB, same with Caellech. Knoll shouldn’t be cucked like he has.

There are too many Tellius units that should be in and I can’t think of anyone for Awakening and Fates.

[redtutel]

Sumia. She should've been a launch character

[Venmi]

I think laguz are the obvious choice.  That's a significant proportion of Tellius's cast, and they don't have a single representative in game.  Also, I like math, so...

We'll say Tellius has 73 characters, since only one PR character isn't playable in RD, so add one to RD's total.  I only really know Tellius, so if I mess up counts or miss an alt, I'm sorry.

In the below totals, seasonal and brave heroes are excluded.  I used the list of characters on Fire Emblem Wiki.  When I saw alts in the main game list, I excluded them.  I'm not promising no errors, but I did the best I could.

Also, props will be a little off since I only used playable game counts, and some of the characters included in FEH weren't playable.  However, it gives an idea.

Archanera: 30/59=0.51 in heroes

Valentina: 18-1=17, 17/38=0.45 in heroes (excluding Fallen Celica)

Judgral: 22-2=20 in heroes (excluding second Rein and Olwen)...  I have no idea how to count this one, I'll leave it to a game expert to figure out cast size.  I have no clue what the overlap (if any) is.

----It looks like there are 15/93=0.16 in heroes.  (Thanks @Baldrick!)  That makes Judgral the lowest.

Elibe: 38-2=36 in heroes (excluding L!Lyn and new Nino, including the two new ones for tomorrow).  Like Judgral, don't know the overlap, so I'll let someone else find the proportion.

Sacred Stones: 15-2=13, 13/33=0.4 (L!Eph and alt Erika excluded)

Tellius: 15-2=13, 13/73=0.18 (L!Ike and Zelgius excluded)

Awakening: 26-4=22, 22/49=0.45 (I'm a little iffy on this one...  M!Marth and second Chrom are obvious exclusions, but I'm not sure what to do with the Grimas.  I excluded both, but you could add them back in)

Fates: 41-2=39, 39/64=0.61 (Excluding Ryoma and Hinoka alts)

 

So...  I think Tellius (and Judgral) definitely deserve more representation.  Tellius ties for lowest count and has the lowest proportion by far.  Largest cast in the series (if I'm not mistaken) and the lowest (tied) count...  That's sad.  That's really sad.  It's tied with SS, which has a much smaller cast (and twice as high of a proportion included).  Tellius desperately needs more banners.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Venmi
Updated Judgral counts

[Baldrick]

13 minutes ago, Venmi said:

Judgral: 22-2=20 in heroes (excluding second Rein and Olwen)...  I have no idea how to count this one, I'll leave it to a game expert to figure out cast size.  I have no clue what the overlap (if any) is.

They share 6 characters (counting Briggid/Eyvel). FE4 has 47 playable excluding subs, FE% has 52, so that makes 93 in total.

15 of those characters are playable in Heroes, for 16% representation.

[Venmi]

7 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

They share 6 characters (counting Briggid/Eyvel). FE4 has 47 playable excluding subs, FE% has 52, so that makes 93 in total.

15 of those characters are playable in Heroes, for 16% representation.

Wow, a whole 5 of the Judgral characters in FEH aren't playable (oh wait...  I think I remember hearing Reinhardt wasn't playable)?  In that case, Judgral does have lower representation than Tellius by a bit.  With those two continents having the largest casts, that's terribly sad.  They both need more representation, so hopefully we'll see multiple Judgral and Tellius banners this year. 

I updated Judgral numbers in the post above since I needed to change the results a bit, as it's lower than Tellius.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Venmi

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Maybe they could have made more waves if they had crossed the waves. 

It's hard to like Archanea when all the international audience unable to emulate has gotten is Shadow Husk. I get the impression the War of the Heroes is just a much better game.

 

A principle to be agreed with.

 

To keep it short and ambiguous, there are several ways to define "deserves" here. One can be deserved on plot importance grounds, on gameplay awesomeness grounds, on popularity with the fans, and a combination of these factors. 

 

I'm actually not in the mood to do this simple checking and math right now, I should be, but FE Wiki lists picts of every character in Heroes, and until I start summoning, I can't get over my distaste for the artwork. Nonetheless, for anyone interested in doing the math (I would leave out Seasonal, New, and Legendary alts if I were they), here are the PC unit rosters per game. Add ~5-10 to the roster size per game to account for major villains and distinguished NPCs. You also need to account for how FEs 1&3 and 9&10 share most of their PC rosters, and most characters don't really change between games.

  Hide contents

Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light: 52

Gaiden: Alm’s Team: 16 Celica’s Team: 16 

Mystery of the Emblem: Book 1: 47  Book 2: 45

Genealogy of the Holy War: 1st Generation: 24 

2nd Generation: 25 

Thracia 776: 52 

Binding Blade: 54 

Blazing Sword: 43 (Hector Mode) 41 (Eliwood Mode) (41/39 per play through because Wallace/Geitz and Karel/Harken, and because with the exception of 1 con, Ninian and Nils are identical statistically, and you only have one at any time (barring the Link Arena in the Epilogue where they have no purpose), so I counted them as one)

Sacred Stones: 33 (not including Orson)

Path of Radiance: 47 

Radiant Dawn: 72 (not including the Black Knight, but including Lehran and Pelleas)

Shadow Dragon: 59 (Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light plus the 7 new characters)

Heroes of Light and Shadow: 77 (one sex of MU, includes final maidens, no BS only characters included)

Awakening: 49 (36 without kids, with one sex of MU and Morgan, including spot pass paralogues)

• Fire Emblem Fates Overall Total:
  • Shared Characters on all Paths: 14- 9 Adults (one sex of Corrin, plus Anna, minus Izana) and 5 children (one sex of Kana)
  • Birthright Exclusive Characters: 27- 19 adults (includes Izana) and 8 children
    • Total Birthright Roster: 41
  • Conquest Characters: 26- 18 adults (includes Izana) and 8 children
    • Total Conquest Roster: 40
  • Revelation Roster: 64 (not counting Scarlet)

SoV: Add Faye and Conrad to Gaiden, so 34, adding the Cipher quartet makes it 38

 

Vaida does hold Nils hostage for a total of two minutes in Unfulfilled Heart. We could also include Blucius, since he joins alongside Nils in Lyn Mode (the two even interact) in Siblings Aboard. Or Rath, Isadora or Heath, since they join in Kinship's Bond, the chapter where you have to defend a collapsed Nils.

If they're going to reference FE7 maps when Nils comes, well the two that really say Nils to me are Siblings Aboard and Kinship's Bond.

  Reveal hidden contents

Or, if they were to choose to emphasize Nergal and his connection to Nils- their doubly forgotten tie of father and son- what would be a better map to reference than Hector Chapter 19xx: A Glimpse in Time, the infamously annoying to unlock chapter where this is heavily implied?

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't even need to check to know Thracia is the least represented. The only original Thracia characters (as in not also being Genalogy characters) are Olwen and Reinhardt, and unlike Mystery of the Emblem and Radiant Dawn, Thracia doesn't share 90% of its cast with the previous title.

[Interdimensional Observer]

56 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

They share 6 characters (counting Briggid/Eyvel). FE4 has 47 playable excluding subs, FE% has 52, so that makes 93 in total.

 

I'd count Brigid and Eyvel separately, since they're different classes, using different weapons, with their memories wiped out, having established themselves as a totally different person. Eyvel could exist without being Brigid quite easily, and some would even say that the tie is unnecessary and messes up Jugdral a little by sparing another person from Belhalla, by means of an unexplained thing called a Gesh.

And I could see someone making the case for two Finns- 776/Gen 2 "Mature" Finn, and Gen 1 "Young" Finn.

The difference visually isn't as big as RD Ike and PoR Ike, but it notable. Gen 1 Finn is Quan's promising squire, Gen 2/776 Finn has lived through a lot and has had to keep his liege's lone surviving child alive through plenty of peril for years, although I've never played T776, so I'm not sure how changed he is.

 

For Elibe, I wouldn't say there is any real overlap, since Blazing is E.C. 980, and 999 is the year of Binding (yeah real creative- 777 was better). The characters who are shared by both games are greatly changed. Bartre is a brawler in both games, but in Blazing, books hurt his brain, while in Binding he is a loving father. Marcus is only middle-aged in Blazing, while he is really old in Binding. Karel in Blazing is the Sword Demon hungry to cut down everyone, in Binding, he is much older and has forsaken his bloodlust to become the Sword Saint. Eliwood and Hector both appear as NPCs in Binding, neither gets much screentime, but they're both kinda important nonetheless (and they're both playable in Trial Maps), and let me just say Eliwood, 17 in 980, looks really really bad for a 36-year old in Binding.

So if take the 36 Elibeans and compare this to the combined Binding-Blazing rosters: 44 + 54 = 98. So we have a little over a third of the Elibean cast, but this excludes villains and important NPCs. Adding them in and getting to like 115, it is slightly under a third.

 

To think on Archanea, the only ones who don't return as PCs in New Mystery are Jagen, Gotoh, Hardin, and Boah. So let us add them to New Mystery's 77 PC cast, and count Kris twice, once for each sex. This brings things up to 82. 30/82 = 36.59%

If we look to add in villains, well the NM number includes Michalis, since he became playable. We should add Camus (Sirius is him, but the mask makes the difference), Medeus, Gharnef, Dark Emperor Hardin, and the three assassins who aren't playable. (We can exclude Jiol as a pathetic little old man nobody will be remiss about, and Lang the same. I excluded Uther, Darin, and Brendan from my Elibe count for the same reason.) Palla, Catria and Est will count, but they also effectively double as Valentians since they don't really change between games.

The Archanean total then becomes 89, which can be rounded up to 90 if choose to separate Earth Dragon Medeus and Shadow Dragon Medeus, or something. 30 of 90 is exactly one third. 

 

And thank you @Venmi for your help.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer
Forgot Jagen retired to advisor

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd count Brigid and Eyvel separately, since they're different classes, using different weapons, with their memories wiped out, having established themselves as a totally different person. Eyvel could exist without being Brigid quite easily, and some would even say that the tie is unnecessary and messes up Jugdral a little by sparing another person from Belhalla, by means of an unexplained thing called a Gesh.

And I could see someone making the case for two Finns- 776/Gen 2 "Mature" Finn, and Gen 1 "Young" Finn.

The difference visually isn't as big as RD Ike and PoR Ike, but it notable. Gen 1 Finn is Quan's promising squire, Gen 2/776 Finn has lived through a lot and has had to keep his liege's lone surviving child alive through plenty of peril for years, although I've never played T776, so I'm not sure how changed he is.

 

For Elibe, I wouldn't say there is any real overlap, since Blazing is E.C. 980, and 999 is the year of Binding (yeah real creative- 777 was better). The characters who are shared by both games are greatly changed. Bartre is a brawler in both games, but in Blazing, books hurt his brain, while in Binding he is a loving father. Marcus is only middle-aged in Blazing, while he is really old in Binding. Karel in Blazing is the Sword Demon hungry to cut down everyone, in Binding, he is much older and has forsaken his bloodlust to become the Sword Saint. Eliwood and Hector both appear as NPCs in Binding, neither gets much screentime, but they're both kinda important nonetheless (and they're both playable in Trial Maps), and let me just say Eliwood, 17 in 980, looks really really bad for a 36-year old in Binding.

So if take the 36 Elibeans and compare this to the combined Binding-Blazing rosters: 44 + 54 = 98. So we have a little over a third of the Elibean cast, but this excludes villains and important NPCs. Adding them in and getting to like 115, it is slightly under a third.

 

To think on Archanea, the only ones who don't return as PCs in New Mystery are Gotoh, Hardin, and Boah. So let us add them to New Mystery's 77 PC cast, and count Kris twice, once for each sex. This brings things up to 81. 30/81 = 37%

If we look to add in villains, well the NM number includes Michalis, since he became playable. We should add Camus (Sirius is him, but the mask makes the difference), Medeus, Gharnef, Dark Emperor Hardin, and the three assassins who aren't playable. (We can exclude Jiol as a pathetic little old man nobody will be remiss about, and Lang the same. I excluded Uther, Darin, and Brendan from my Elibe count for the same reason.) Palla, Catria and Est will count, but they also effectively double as Valentians since they don't really change between games.

The Archanean total then becomes 88, which can be rounded up to 90 if choose to separate Earth Dragon Medeus and Shadow Dragon Medeus, and then add one more (I could see a Marth with the Binding Shield being viable- his sprite in the older games did change upon obtaining the Fire Emblem). 30 of 90 is exactly one third. 

 

 

More importantly for Heroes, Briggid and Evyel would play completely differently, which is good justification for an alt. Different name, different design, different playstyle, different motivations, I call different character (and put me in the camp of that plot twist being detrimental, although for this discussion it's neither here nor there).

[Baldrick]

52 minutes ago, Venmi said:

Wow, a whole 5 of the Judgral characters in FEH aren't playable (oh wait...  I think I remember hearing Reinhardt wasn't playable)?  In that case, Judgral does have lower representation than Tellius by a bit.  With those two continents having the largest casts, that's terribly sad.  They both need more representation, so hopefully we'll see multiple Judgral and Tellius banners this year. 

I updated Judgral numbers in the post above since I needed to change the results a bit, as it's lower than Tellius.

Yeah, Reinhardt is one of 3 summonable non-playable characters from Jugdral. It's crazy that with the whole cast of FE5 to work with, and Leaf/Nanna perfectly capable of selling the banner on their own, IS felt two alts were needed.

Tellius certainly isn't helped by having a third of its cast inexplicably snubbed.

 

PEDIT: @Interdimensional Observer @Jotari

That's true, but for the purposes of representation I don't think we need both Briggid and Eyvel, unless the alternative is another Reinhardt. As far as canon coloured bows go, she'd make a perfect red bow.

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Yeah, Reinhardt is one of 3 summonable non-playable characters from Jugdral. It's crazy that with the whole cast of FE5 to work with, and Leaf/Nanna perfectly capable of selling the banner on their own, IS felt two alts were needed.

Tellius certainly isn't helped by having a third of its cast inexplicably snubbed.

 

PEDIT: @Interdimensional Observer @Jotari

That's true, but for the purposes of representation I don't think we need both Briggid and Eyvel, unless the alternative is another Reinhardt. As far as canon coloured bows go, she'd make a perfect red bow.

Uh. I'd rather coloured bows just didn't exist. Leave it Lyn exclusive. Or, if it has to be done, use it to prop up lesser units that aren't otherwise interesting like Ronan. Briggid's Bow would be Yewfelle which should be interesting enough on its own.

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Or, if it has to be done, use it to prop up lesser units that aren't otherwise interesting like Ronan.

Ronan? Not interesting? How is the Outlaw/Adventurer who came nine games too early not interesting? 55 Spd and Res growths to 15 Str and 5 Def is spectacular! Move over global warming because Ronan's Glacies will turn Muspelheim into a giant snowball! He'd tank practically every mage in the universe. Although outside of the Glacies hits, his arrows wouldn't be able to penetrate Tharja's sheer fabric, and he would be sent to the ER every time somebody else sneezed.

The reasons behind colored bows... to fill in the void that was ranged physical colored attacks? That is the only thing imaginable. Since it can't be bow units are all the same and we have too many and coloring them is the only way to diversify them. Otherwise we should have swords in Roy G. Biv, Colorless, brown, black, white, and teal.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ronan? Not interesting? How is the Outlaw/Adventurer who came nine games too early not interesting? 55 Spd and Res growths to 15 Str and 5 Def is spectacular! Move over global warming because Ronan's Glacies will turn Muspelheim into a giant snowball! He'd tank practically every mage in the universe. Although outside of the Glacies hits, his arrows wouldn't be able to penetrate Tharja's sheer fabric, and he would be sent to the ER every time somebody else sneezed.

The reasons behind colored bows... to fill in the void that was ranged physical colored attacks? That is the only thing imaginable. Since it can't be bow units are all the same and we have too many and coloring them is the only way to diversify them. Otherwise we should have swords in Roy G. Biv, Colorless, brown, black, white, and teal.

I'd rather bow units were diversified by giving us someone like Ronan (yes, I'm now arguing opposite to what I just said about him, he was a bad example, I think Thracia was just on my mind) or armoured bow units (Xavier please). Lyn is also the only mounted archer currently, right? There's plenty you can do to make them different from each other. That's like saying all the sword units are the same because we haven't diversified them by making a blue sword yet. Physical Coloured Ranged attacks should be implemented by givings us Spears and Tomahawks.

[Interdimensional Observer]

23 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Lyn is also the only mounted archer currently, right?

Nope Vroy, or Laroy, whatever you want to call him, also is one I believe. But it is a personal peeve of mine we don't have Sin, Sue, Dayan, Rath, Wolf, Sedgar, Selphina, Robert, Roberto, FE12 Beck, Midir, Lester, Deimne, Astrid, or Hayden (yes, the last is pretty minor). Or the semi-potential candidates of Castor, Warren, Neimi, Python, and Severa to name a few of these.

Over a year in and none of these people. Why? To make Lyndis more special.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Nope Vroy, or Laroy, whatever you want to call him, also is one I believe. But it is a personal peeve of mine we don't have Sin, Sue, Dayan, Rath, Wolf, Sedgar, Selphina, Robert, Roberto, FE12 Beck, Midir, Lester, Deimne, Astrid, or Hayden (yes, the last is pretty minor). Or the semi-potential candidates of Castor, Warren, Neimi, Python, and Severa to name a few of these.

Over a year in and none of these people. Why? To make Lyndis more special.

Vroy/Laroy, I assume that's the fancy dressed Roy alt, I actually have him, he just slipped my mind. I should use him more often, he's actually pretty good. Anyway, point being, there's plenty that can be done to make Bow users more interesting without shoving them into the weapon triangle.

[SSbardock84]

Honestly any laguz character.

[Medeus]

Generally any of the Laguz, but The Royals, Ranulf, Skirmir, Dheginsea, Nasir, Ena and Kurthnaga are the ones who really need to get into the game soon. 

In terms of the other playable characters, the only main character left is Kris, but in terms of secondaries there are still a notable batch left such as Nyna, Nils, Lucia, Flavia and Basilio. Villain-wise also have a good few major ones left like Medeus, Rudolf, Gharnef, Travant, Murdock, Nergal, Ashnard, Sephiran, and Walhart.

[Jotari]

You know, despite the popularity of the 3DS games and high ratio of represented characters, their villain line up is basically nonexistant. None of the principal villains in Awakening, Gangral, Walhart, Aversa or Validar have made it in. On Fates side, no Garon or Anankos. Iago and Hands also seem like they could be important enough to appear. Then on Shadows of Valentia, there's no Jedah, Rudolf or Duma. Out of...85 3DS characters, only Grima, Fallen!Takumi and Berkut represent the antagonists. And I suppose Ryoma, Xander and Fallen!Celica you could count, but they're all playable heroes too. I'm not really saying any of these characters deserve to get in, as the 3DS games have a much higher ratio compared to other games, but I do find it kind of strange. It's like the 3DS games have a much higher number of characters, yet the same absolute number when it comes to villains, compared to other games. Aversa in particular it seems strange they haven't jumped on, as she'd just sort of suit the Heroes aesthetic (fanservice appearance, a personal weapon with Aversa's Night and a unique skill with Shadow Gift (though I don't know what it would do in Heroes)).

Edited June 8, 2018 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You know, despite the popularity of the 3DS games and high ratio of represented characters, their villain line up is basically nonexistant. None of the principal villains in Awakening, Gangral, Walhart, Aversa or Validar have made it in. On Fates side, no Garon or Anankos. Iago and Hands also seem like they could be important enough to appear. Then on Shadows of Valentia, there's no Jedah, Rudolf or Duma. Out of...85 3DS characters, only Grima, Fallen!Takumi and Berkut represent the antagonists. And I suppose Ryoma, Xander and Fallen!Celica you could count, but they're all playable heroes too. I'm not really saying any of these characters deserve to get in, as the 3DS games have a much higher ratio compared to other games, but I do find it kind of strange. It's like the 3DS games have a much higher number of characters, yet the same absolute number when it comes to villains, compared to other games. Aversa in particular it seems strange they haven't jumped on, as she'd just sort of suit the Heroes aesthetic (fanservice appearance, a personal weapon with Aversa's Night and a unique skill with Shadow Gift (though I don't know what it would do in Heroes)).

Well Fates's villains are seen as being some of the weakest around, including them would be to direct referenced of the trainwreck plot. Garon at the least could work though, he has a decent appearance (though I don't like his beard) and the Bolverk. 

Jedah, Rudolf, Duma, Nuibaba- even with the artbook background information, none of these are all that appealing I think. Berkut being young and brash might give him an appeal these prunes who eat themselves to stay regular do not.

It is an inexplicable issue that Awakening still doesn't have its big baddies though, since Validar aside, they aren't terrible. Aversa indeed is very appealing in many ways, I'm afraid the flying red tome means she'll be summonable instead of GHB, thanks Rein and DEH. And since everyone but Validar (and Excellus, who we shall ignore) is also a PC via Spotpass, they could be easily released as summonables instead of GHB as well. Walhart released alongside Basilio and Flavia would be cohesive, referring to that one scripted battle.

[Book Bro]

I really don't want Validar, but the other Awakening villains are really late. They could do a Plegia banner with Aversa, alt Tharja or Henry, Emmeryn, and GHB Gangrel and I imagine it would be pretty hype. 

[Vince777]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

The only original Thracia characters (as in not also being Genalogy characters) are Olwen and Reinhardt

Saias, yo.