Lianna and Rowan should have just been Eirika and Ephraim

[Jotari]

I don't really have anything against Lianna and Rown, they're pretty unnoteworthy OCs, but I also don't really see any reason why they need to exist. Heroes, I can see making a pair of OCs for as it's a grand collection game featuring most of all noteworthy characters in the series, but Warriors, you know we're not getting everyone from the outset, so why waste times on these OCs. Give us the originally twin pairing. Basically nothing would change about the plot, except maybe Darios being replaced by like Lyon or someone, and you know what, wouldn't that be really, really nice, seeing Eirika and Ephraim just chilling with Lyon? On that very same subject, the series has it's own Monsters Gallery, the four armed things aren't badly designed per se, but where are the revenants and mogalls and stuff?

[Thane]

Or just Alfonse and Sharena. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

Or just Alfonse and Sharena. 

I certainly wouldn't object to that but Heroes came out only half a year before Warriors, so I can see them not really knowing about Alfonse and Sharena during development (their designs are barely different to the extent that they probably could have gotten away with just renaming the characters and country).

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jotari

[CatManThree]

The Fire Emblem Warriors development team was overall lazy and cut many many corners. Honestly I'm almost surprised they didn't just reuse the Sacred Stones trio instead of making bootleg versions of em. In the end though, they wanted to make a set of OCs in a new setting they would mess around with and probably got lazy (like with various other things) and used Sacred Stones as framework instead of doing something brand new. There's also always the possibility that the similarities are by complete coincidence, which is still worth noting.

 

24 minutes ago, Thane said:

Or just Alfonse and Sharena. 

@Thane The development team already covered this to an extant. Apparently by sheer coincidence, both the Warriors and Heroes teams came up with and put together brother and sister OCs for their respective games without knowing about it for some time. If I recall correctly, during one of the interviews with the leading developers of FE Warriors, they mentioned how surprised both they and the Heroes team were to discover they both had the exact same idea, at a point where neither good exactly go back and change their respective characters.

Edited June 10, 2018 by CatManThree

[Etrurian emperor]

Eirika and Ephraim becoming the main characters would probably have led to Sacred Stones becoming part of the cast. I'd like that but I have a feeling the Nintendo marketing department really wouldn't since its neither the most popular nor relevant FE out there. 

Its a shame that they retreated into the comfort zone of the sword wielding lords after their earlier designs were deemed to similar to the Heroes siblings. An older sister with a big build and an axe, and a tiny younger brother with a speedy sword moveset might have been more interesting.  

[Shadow Mir]

No chance. One, that means you'd have to have more Sacred Stones characters among the cast, which I'm not really sure that Nintendo would've been okay with since Sacred Stones is neither popular nor relevant. Two, I consider all three of Eirika, Lyon and Ephraim lame as characters. ESPECIALLY the former two.

[Jotari]

52 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

No chance. One, that means you'd have to have more Sacred Stones characters among the cast, which I'm not really sure that Nintendo would've been okay with since Sacred Stones is neither popular nor relevant. Two, I consider all three of Eirika, Lyon and Ephraim lame as characters. ESPECIALLY the former two.

Well it's more popular and relevant than the nonexistance they pulled Lianna and Rowan from. Maybe they were expecting the two to become popular characters and launch a Warriors series, but I don't think they've really captured the hearts of anyone. And then what do you mean by lame? As in not an exciting unit in terms of moveset potential? Or just not an interesting character to your subjective tastes? Because if we're going down that road, then for me most of all the characters that got in are lame compared to a hypothetical Jugdral Wars that will never happen. And are Lianna and Darios really any better than Eirika and Lyon?

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Eirika and Ephraim becoming the main characters would probably have led to Sacred Stones becoming part of the cast. I'd like that but I have a feeling the Nintendo marketing department really wouldn't since its neither the most popular nor relevant FE out there. 

Its a shame that they retreated into the comfort zone of the sword wielding lords after their earlier designs were deemed to similar to the Heroes siblings. An older sister with a big build and an axe, and a tiny younger brother with a speedy sword moveset might have been more interesting.  

Oh really, they redesigned them? That description doesn't sound anything like the Heroes Lords though. Unless Anna is meant to be the older sister. Do you have a link to any images of the earlier designs?

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jotari

[Thane]

2 hours ago, CatManThree said:

The development team already covered this to an extant. Apparently by sheer coincidence, both the Warriors and Heroes teams came up with and put together brother and sister OCs for their respective games without knowing about it for some time. If I recall correctly, during one of the interviews with the leading developers of FE Warriors, they mentioned how surprised both they and the Heroes team were to discover they both had the exact same idea, at a point where neither good exactly go back and change their respective characters.

Sure, but it sure as heck would've been more convenient and coherent.

Personally I think that including OC's in a game like this where it's absolutely not needed is silly, and that we could've actually had every single lord + maybe Takumi and Leo for their popularity and weapon diversity. It would've made a lot more sense and appealed to the entire fanbase.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't hate Rowan/Lianna but yeah they don't inspire caring so of course I'd have preferred Eirika/Ephraim. I feel like they didn't do this because it would make one of the worlds (FE8 in this case, if we presume Lyon is replacing Darios and the Demon King is replacing Velezark) the "main" one.

4 minutes ago, Thane said:

Personally I think that including OC's in a game like this where it's absolutely not needed is silly, and that we could've actually had every single lord + maybe Takumi and Leo for their popularity and weapon diversity. It would've made a lot more sense and appealed to the entire fanbase.

This would have resulted in a player cast which is like 80+% men, and no less sword-focused than the one we got. This certainly would not have appealed to the entire fanbase.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I don't hate Rowan/Lianna but yeah they don't inspire caring so of course I'd have preferred Eirika/Ephraim. I feel like they didn't do this because it would make one of the worlds (FE8 in this case, if we presume Lyon is replacing Darios and the Demon King is replacing Velezark) the "main" one.

This would have resulted in a player cast which is like 80+% men, and no less sword-focused than the one we got. This certainly would not have appealed to the entire fanbase.

Well the Demon King wouldn't necessarily have to replace Velezark, but in the same vein, there is absolutely no reason at all for Velezark to be an original dragon. Like even less reason than Lianna and Rowan. Just stick the name Medeus on him like Tokyo Mirage Sessions did (and that game didn't care enough about the franchise to even maintain the character designs!). Or even Grima if you want to push Awakening. Hell I would have even accepted Anankos (though of course Loptyr would have been the best option as that would have actually worked as some form of explanation as to what happened to his body). It's not like Velezark ever even tries to do anything other than be a big scary dragon. Rowan and Lianna at least speak and are characters albeit undeveloped ones.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jotari

[Thane]

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

This would have resulted in a player cast which is like 80+% men, and no less sword-focused than the one we got. This certainly would not have appealed to the entire fanbase.

Precisely. It wouldn't be less sword-focused even with every main character involved, rather than with a lot of them excluded for no reason.

I didn't consider the gender ratio though, which would need to be fixed.

[Etrurian emperor]

35 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well it's more popular and relevant than the nonexistance they pulled Lianna and Rowan from. Maybe they were expecting the two to become popular characters and launch a Warriors series, but I don't think they've really captured the hearts of anyone. And then what do you mean by lame? As in not an exciting unit in terms of moveset potential? Or just not an interesting character to your subjective tastes? Because if we're going down that road, then for me most of all the characters that got in are lame compared to a hypothetical Jugdral Wars that will never happen. And are Lianna and Darios really any better than Eirika and Lyon?

Oh really, they redesigned them? That description doesn't sound anything like the Heroes Lords though. Unless Anna is meant to be the older sister. Do you have a link to any images of the earlier designs?

Oh no I meant that the axe sister and sword brother is something that should have happened since that would clearly differentiate them from Alfonse and Sharena without relying on the standard balanced sword lords that the Warriors twin ended up being. 

[Jotari]

34 minutes ago, Thane said:

Sure, but it sure as heck would've been more convenient and coherent.

Personally I think that including OC's in a game like this where it's absolutely not needed is silly, and that we could've actually had every single lord + maybe Takumi and Leo for their popularity and weapon diversity. It would've made a lot more sense and appealed to the entire fanbase.

 

28 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I don't hate Rowan/Lianna but yeah they don't inspire caring so of course I'd have preferred Eirika/Ephraim. I feel like they didn't do this because it would make one of the worlds (FE8 in this case, if we presume Lyon is replacing Darios and the Demon King is replacing Velezark) the "main" one.

This would have resulted in a player cast which is like 80+% men, and no less sword-focused than the one we got. This certainly would not have appealed to the entire fanbase.

 

23 minutes ago, Thane said:

Precisely. It wouldn't be less sword-focused even with every main character involved, rather than with a lot of them excluded for no reason.

I didn't consider the gender ratio though, which would need to be fixed.

Let's examine such a roster. Purely lords + other major characters with diverse weapons.

Spoiler

 

Marth

Shiida (for Pegasus and Lance)

Tiki (for Dragon Stone)

Alm

Celica (for the purpose of gameplay she could equip tomes)

Sigurd (mounted)

Seliph (maybe mounted)

Leif

Roy

Eliwood (mounted)

Hector

Lyn (could be reconfigured into a bow lord, seems to be what Heroes is pushing)

Eirika

Ephraim

Ike

Micaiah

Chrom

Robin

Corrin

Leo (for mounted magic)

Takumi (for bow)

Azura (for lance and dancing)

Camilla (flying and axe)

 

That would give a roster with eleven sword users (with Celica being a tome user and Lyn being a bow lord, purely for the purpose of equipping items, they could still use swords in their moveset like Robin does in the base game), three lance users, two axe users, two bow users, four tome users and one dragon stone user, for a total roster of 22 (and 8/22 females). Base game has 23 characters, including DLC its 32 (13/23 and 16/32 female, excluding the avatar alts. You could frame the pre dlc roster as 10/23 men). So if we assume some of the lesser known lords could be worked as DLC then we're looking at eleven more spots that could be filled with the likes of females and non sword users. Workable, if one is prepared to accept the likes of Leif and Eliwood as DLC.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

44 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Or just not an interesting character to your subjective tastes?

LMC seems to display an utter dislike for SS. 

 

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Just stick the name Medeus on him like Tokyo Mirage Sessions did (and that game didn't care enough about the franchise to even maintain the character designs!)

Hey! I like TMS's designs! Well Medeus's wasn't amazing or anything, but the only time you ever see him is at the very end, so it's no big deal. 

 

The original Warriors Orochi- the intra-Warriors crossover, did need two OCs- Orochi for the villain that brings everything together, and Da Ji for the ever active servant of Orochi. So 100% no OCs sounds impossible. Could we have done without OC heroes though? Yes! 

Warriors Orochi just melds late 100s-early 200s AD China and mid-late 1500s-1615 Japan into one world. There, just world meld at the very first moment of the story, and no single FE world becomes the predominant one. About the heroes? Just as easy Dynasty-zie! Play the stories of Awakening/Ylisse, Fates (or Nohr and Hoshido each get their own story), and the story of Archanea. Each game gets its own tale right from the start, just as in WO1 and all DW games, and since they can all be progressed at their own pace separately of each other, no story or characters from a particular game are predominant.

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

LMC seems to display an utter dislike for SS. 

 

Hey! I like TMS's designs! Well Medeus's wasn't amazing or anything, but the only time you ever see him is at the very end, so it's no big deal. 

 

The original Warriors Orochi- the intra-Warriors crossover, did need two OCs- Orochi for the villain that brings everything together, and Da Ji for the ever active servant of Orochi. So 100% no OCs sounds impossible. Could we have done without OC heroes though? Yes! 

Warriors Orochi just melds late 100s-early 200s AD China and mid-late 1500s-1615 Japan into one world. There, just world meld at the very first moment of the story, and no single FE world becomes the predominant one. About the heroes? Just as easy Dynasty-zie! Play the stories of Awakening/Ylisse, Fates (or Nohr and Hoshido each get their own story), and the story of Archanea. Each game gets its own tale right from the start, just as in WO1 and all DW games, and since they can all be progressed at their own pace separately of each other, no story or characters from a particular game are predominant.

There's nothing wrong with the TMS Designs, but it just confuses me why you'd even have a cross over when you basically make the characters unrecognizable. Like, they could have changed the names of everyone except Tiki in Tokyo Mirage Sessions and no one would ever guess it was Fire Emblem inspired (for the plot at any rate, the Weapon Triangle worked well for the combat).

Having each game have it's playable plot would have been really great. What that would entail though is a much more sizable roster to fill out each plot line. And you know what, that totally would have been possible. They should have just made clones all over the place like they do for all the Gharnef villains in the main campaign, Lianna/Rowan, the two flying movesets they have four or five characters use. Clone movesets every where. Have it so the game basically has a roster of about 12 classes and then give us a full Fire Emblem sized cast with variance in characters arising from unique skills and weapons. Do away with the crest system that we've seen in other warriors games and make it so the crests are automatically part of characters. So like Fredrick can full his Awakening gauge quicker while Lex gets a longer time to deplete weakness meters. The differences would seem very small but would actually have a pretty big impact for tweaking how exactly you want to play a class (people would no doubt decry it as a lazy roster, but at the same time, just like Budokai Tenkaichi 3, people would adore it).

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jotari

[Modamy]

When I found out about Rowan and Lianna's characters the first thing I thought was "why aren't these just Ephraim and Eirika then"? The two just feel like discount knockoffs of two characters that aren't even that particularly great to begin with. It's also made worse by the fact that they were made less unique by the development staff by making them clones of one another and giving them swords instead of an axe and lance like originally planned.

Also I hate when people say that an all lords roster would have been boring. There is plenty about each of the lords to give them completely unique movesets and attributes. From magic swords, to elements that they're associated with, to being mounted, and their legendary weapons. The only things that would have needed to be done was dump the weapon triangle because of the lack of other weapon types and be creative with everyone movesets.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well it's more popular and relevant than the nonexistance they pulled Lianna and Rowan from. Maybe they were expecting the two to become popular characters and launch a Warriors series, but I don't think they've really captured the hearts of anyone. And then what do you mean by lame? As in not an exciting unit in terms of moveset potential? Or just not an interesting character to your subjective tastes? Because if we're going down that road, then for me most of all the characters that got in are lame compared to a hypothetical Jugdral Wars that will never happen. And are Lianna and Darios really any better than Eirika and Lyon?

From where I'm standing, Sacred Stones is also rather divisive. The lack of length and difficulty result in it getting a lot of flak. And yes, I would say that Lianna and Darios are better than Eirika and Lyon because the latter two aren't exactly a high bar to clear. After all, we ARE talking about a character who gave away a MacGuffin willingly despite there being no reason to, and a character who spent most of the game being supplanted in terms of relevance by the Grado generals, most of whom weren't exactly memorable or amazing as characters.

46 minutes ago, Thane said:

Personally I think that including OC's in a game like this where it's absolutely not needed is silly, and that we could've actually had every single lord + maybe Takumi and Leo for their popularity and weapon diversity. It would've made a lot more sense and appealed to the entire fanbase.

That wouldn't work for reasons already mentioned (too much men, and you'd still have a lot of swords). Basically, this sounds like a half measure that would solve nothing whatsoever.

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

LMC seems to display an utter dislike for SS. 

Because IS really didn't give it their best effort.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

From where I'm standing, Sacred Stones is also rather divisive. The lack of length and difficulty result in it getting a lot of flak. And yes, I would say that Lianna and Darios are better than Eirika and Lyon because the latter two aren't exactly a high bar to clear. After all, we ARE talking about a character who gave away a MacGuffin willingly despite there being no reason to, and a character who spent most of the game being supplanted in terms of relevance by the Grado generals for most of the game. 

That wouldn't work for reasons already mentioned (too much men, and you'd still have a lot of swords). Basically, this sounds like a half measure that would solve nothing whatsoever.

Because IS really didn't give it their best effort.

So what are you saying? You think a sizable portion of the profit base would outright refuse to buy the game if Eirika and Ephraim were on the boxart as opposed to two characters they'd never heard about before? People are critical about the game (there's not a single game in the series that a vocal number of people in the fanbase aren't heavily critical of), but it's no where near that decisive.

Now that being said, I don't think having Eirika and Ephraim on the cover would actually change sales all that much, the majority of the people who would appreciate it would probably  buy the game regardless. But I don't think it would hurt the sales in any major way among the people who don't know or don't care who they are. What it would really come down to is whether the character designs of Eirika and Ephraim are more aesthetically pleasing to the masses when compared to that of Rowan and Lianna. And I wouldn't even begin to hazard a guess as to whether they are or not.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jotari

[Jedi]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

LMC seems to display an utter dislike for SS. 

For Fire Emblem in general you mean. I don't think i've ever seen him display any sort of fondness or like for anything FE related ever.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Jedi

[thecrimsonflash]

I will give an unpopular opinion and say that while I couldn't give less of a crap about rowan and lianna as characters, I do think that we needed a new continent to bring these games together, the reason being that if Ephraim and Erika were the main characters the story would need to start in Renis, and that would turn this into a sacred stones game, it would demand to many questions, where is seth, myrrh, fado, dussel, etc. I just don't think they could have done it without completely changing the roster (not that I would object to that) and sacred stones isn't that unpopular, it is my second favorite fire emblem and many people have a fondness for it's castat the very least.

@Jotari I agree with you on the whole out of nowhere part though, I also do think that Erika and Ephraim would have sold at least a few copies and some of those who refused to buy the game due to the roster may have been more willing to look into it otherwise, so I guess that what I am trying to say is I think it would have made the game sell better, but it also would have made the story worse. also regarding your roster, I think it looked pretty good, it had a good overall game representation, cut out a good chunk of fat (I think it is too soon for so many clones) and was satisfying enough to satisfy fans across the series, my only objections are ryoma and xander's absence, it seems wrong to put the inferior little brothers in while ignoring the true pseudo lords and lyn using bows, I understand why, but it just doesn't feel right to me.

3 hours ago, Jedi said:

For Fire Emblem in general you mean. I don't think i've ever seen him display any sort of fondness or like for anything FE related ever.

yeah, just don't try to claim that thracia and genealogy weren't the worst thing ever, a constitution based weight system could work in theory, or durability improves some of the strategic elements of the series when properly implemented, I guess now it's sacred stones has a fanbase, but don't bring these up and he'll leave you alone, don't see him say much else though.

[CatManThree]

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

No chance. One, that means you'd have to have more Sacred Stones characters among the cast, which I'm not really sure that Nintendo would've been okay with since Sacred Stones is neither popular nor relevant. Two, I consider all three of Eirika, Lyon and Ephraim lame as characters. ESPECIALLY the former two.

Sacred Stones is actually rather popular, particularly on the more casual side of the fandom. A few more naive fans sometimes even tend to go around spouting the same irrational nonsense that some Telius fanboys go on about, claiming the game "flawless and perfect". Though I honestly have to say I haven't really seen this crowd around on Serenes though.

As for your statement about the gameplay, most people don't really complain about it or give it  too much flack in that regard. The game wasn't designed to be difficult, it was made to be a simple, casual game easy for the player to mess around with. It mostly suffers from some of the weird balancing of some lower base stats set around the expectation that the player is gonna be grinding.

Lastly, your statements about Eirika, Ephraim, and Lyon, to be blunt, does neither add  anything to or prove your point. Simply stating that in your opinion the three are lame characters without any context whatsoever doesn't do anything on its own.

Edited June 10, 2018 by CatManThree

[Erureido]

I can see it. Rowan and Lianna took a lot from Ephraim and Eirika's personalities, and even Darios has some of Lyons' major characteristics.

I only wonder then how would they change Sacred Stones' story to incorporate those other characters from Fire Emblem series. The best I can think of is a route similar to Heroes where you have two OCs who can summon heroes from other worlds in a manner similar to Heroes: one is a hero, the other is a villain. 

4 hours ago, Jedi said:

For Fire Emblem in general you mean. I don't think i've ever seen him display any sort of fondness or like for anything FE related ever.

Levant has been much more positive about Shadows of Valentia from what I've seen of him in SF though, so I don't wouldn't say he dislikes FE in general.

[NinjaMonkey]

9 hours ago, CatManThree said:

The Fire Emblem Warriors development team was overall lazy and cut many many corners.

You expected anything different from Koei Techmo? After all, they've been doing that for years now.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

There's nothing wrong with the TMS Designs, but it just confuses me why you'd even have a cross over when you basically make the characters unrecognizable. Like, they could have changed the names of everyone except Tiki in Tokyo Mirage Sessions and no one would ever guess it was Fire Emblem inspired (for the plot at any rate, the Weapon Triangle worked well for the combat).

The weapon triangle actually fixed one of the big issues of physical attacks in SMT, namely there usually is only one, maybe two phys elements (Phys and Gun), and that they can rarely target weaknesses. In the post-Nocturne era of Press Turns (and to a lesser extent Demon Co-op and whatever Persona uses), targeting weaknesses is a big deal. And throw in rarer access to Almighty skills, which is a major issue when things that resist physical and later outright block it (Grimekhala and Rangda to name two perennial foes in this group), and enemies with Counter/Retaliate, and physical is even worse off. Its only advantage is against anything that isn't weak to magic, and where provided the enemy isn't physical-resistant too or the player has phys Almighty access, phys can via crits or some Kannuki Throw/Multistrike/Hassou Tobi broken skill outdo magical damage sources. Of course, these circumstances are typically quite select, and quite late in game. HP is a less costly resource than MP in some of the games where physicals consume HP, but this isn't the case at all in all of them- Tyranny is infinite MP in DS and you have plenty of MP in DDS.

TMS via the Weapon Triangle of FE had four physical weapon types, and it even included Str-using elemental skills. Thus, there is virtually nothing that can block all physical damage, and it is the equal to magical harm. The issue of TMS actually is there is little to differentiate the two types of damage owing to the elemental strikes, and that only Itsuki, Tsubasa, Kiria have any real access to magic. Overload on Eleonora and Touma's lol Maragi is barely anything. 

But ahem, let me get to something FEW-related.

 

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Having each game have it's playable plot would have been really great. What that would entail though is a much more sizable roster to fill out each plot line. And you know what, that totally would have been possible. They should have just made clones all over the place like they do for all the Gharnef villains in the main campaign, Lianna/Rowan, the two flying movesets they have four or five characters use. Clone movesets every where. Have it so the game basically has a roster of about 12 classes and then give us a full Fire Emblem sized cast with variance in characters arising from unique skills and weapons. Do away with the crest system that we've seen in other warriors games and make it so the crests are automatically part of characters. So like Fredrick can full his Awakening gauge quicker while Lex gets a longer time to deplete weakness meters. The differences would seem very small but would actually have a pretty big impact for tweaking how exactly you want to play a class (people would no doubt decry it as a lazy roster, but at the same time, just like Budokai Tenkaichi 3, people would adore it).

I later after posting realized the class diversity issue with separate stories as well- Shadow Dragon pre-DLC had no Axe-user and it still lacks a Bow. However, back before FEW was actually a thing, I thought loads of clones with small differences would work as well. This game already has clones in it, it just doesn't choose to embrace them all the way, or lacked the funds to make that many more character models. That is another thing that differentiates it from WO, since all those character models and movesets could be imported from SW and DW.

Also, Warriors Orochi 3 did away with the separate stories thing, but still lacked a single-game focus. Besides the initial world merge established back with WO1, it chose to feature three "main" characters: Ma Chao, Sima Zhou, and Hanbei Takenaka. Hanbei is the lone Samurai Warriors rep of the three. Ma Chao and Sima Zhou are both Dynasty Warriors, but they represent different parts of the series. Ma Chao was apparently quite a star in the older pre-6 games, although he has lost some popularity and luster more recently. Sima Zhou originated in DW7, the most recent mainline title up to that point, and was the main character for most of the story of the brand new Jin faction. So in a way, you could call Ma Chao- Marth, Sima Zhou- Lucina, and Hanbei- Corrin. 

They are accompanied prominently by the OC Mystic (mythological or pseudo-historical figure from Japan or China) Kaguya, and of course others in the 100+ roster come and go in the plot. But the important thing is, no single aspect of the roster: the Mystics, the Samurai, any of the Dynastic factions of Wei, Wu, Shu, Jin, Other; nor the non-Musou crossover characters like Ryu Hayabusa of Ninja Gaiden, ever dominate things completely.

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

So what are you saying? You think a sizable portion of the profit base would outright refuse to buy the game if Eirika and Ephraim were on the boxart as opposed to two characters they'd never heard about before? People are critical about the game (there's not a single game in the series that a vocal number of people in the fanbase aren't heavily critical of), but it's no where near that decisive.

Now that being said, I don't think having Eirika and Ephraim on the cover would actually change sales all that much, the majority of the people who would appreciate it would probably  buy the game regardless. But I don't think it would hurt the sales in any major way among the people who don't know or don't care who they are. What it would really come down to is whether the character designs of Eirika and Ephraim are more aesthetically pleasing to the masses when compared to that of Rowan and Lianna. And I wouldn't even begin to hazard a guess as to whether they are or not.

I wouldn't go that far. And I would know quite a bit about the fact that people are heavily critical of certain games in the franchise, with at least 5 games that I have no love for (both of the Jugdral games, SS, Shadow Dragon, Sword of Seals).

I don't think it would have much of an effect, but frankly, I can't think of any good reason for them to be in, seeing as their game was released in 2004 (in Japan).

8 hours ago, Jedi said:

For Fire Emblem in general you mean. I don't think i've ever seen him display any sort of fondness or like for anything FE related ever.

That's an obvious exaggeration, even if I think Shadow Dragon was the worst thing ever, and so bad it single-handedly made FE fall out of favour in my book. And you don't earnestly think I'd be here if I did dislike FE that much, now do you? If that was the case, I either would've  not stayed here for as long as I did, or I would not have bothered to join in the first place.

4 hours ago, CatManThree said:

Sacred Stones is actually rather popular, particularly on the more casual side of the fandom. A few more naive fans sometimes even tend to go around spouting the same irrational nonsense that some Telius fanboys go on about, claiming the game "flawless and perfect". Though I honestly have to say I haven't really seen this crowd around on Serenes though.

As for your statement about the gameplay, most people don't really complain about it or give it  too much flack in that regard. The game wasn't designed to be difficult, it was made to be a simple, casual game easy for the player to mess around with. It mostly suffers from some of the weird balancing of some lower base stats set around the expectation that the player is gonna be grinding.

Lastly, your statements about Eirika, Ephraim, and Lyon, to be blunt, does neither add  anything to or prove your point. Simply stating that in your opinion the three are lame characters without any context whatsoever doesn't do anything on its own.

Fair enough. I still think the game has lots of room for improvement though.

4 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

yeah, just don't try to claim that thracia and genealogy weren't the worst thing ever, a constitution based weight system could work in theory, or durability improves some of the strategic elements of the series when properly implemented, I guess now it's sacred stones has a fanbase, but don't bring these up and he'll leave you alone, don't see him say much else though.

As for those:

• I don't consider Genealogy and Thracia the worst thing ever as far as FE goes; that honor goes to SD. I do think they're not much better, though.
• Saying a con-based weight system could work in theory is one thing. Making it work in practice is another thing entirely. And after IS's repeated failures with it, I'd be a damned fool to believe they could make it work.
• Durability is something that could be better handled indeed; as it is, it leads to hoarding and the "Too Awesome To Use" trope rearing their ugly heads.