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Should you level up your lords to above 50?


Hanes
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No, sure lloyd's level is harder and more annoying but in a future chapter you will fight the other brother, on a trone! So if you kill linus you will have to fight lloyd with the insane bonuses of the throne, no thank you ima get critted a lot, if you kill lloyd first on the other hand (BY having the lords be under level 50 as the sum of their levels) you will have to fight linus in the throne and hes easier to take down more tedious but not annoying as when lloyd dodged everything. Ive seen very few peopple say this and others say its better to get the linus version, why?

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You mean I'm not meant to level them up to 20 as soon as I can and then bench them for half the game! For reals, play the game twice and do both. Arbitrary systems for going to alternate maps are stupid, but alternate maps are still nice.

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Depends. If you want to recruit Geitz then Linus’s version could be worthwhile, but Lloyd’s map is easier (at least on HHM), you don’t have to train all three of Hector Lyn and Eliwood (two of whom are considered mediocre-bad), and Linus is not nearly as annoying as Lloyd in COD (actually you can ORKO him with base Jaffar with about a 50% success rate which is pretty cool). Overall I find Lloyd’s map to be overall much better to get

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I'd say that more people advise getting Linus's version of FFO since you can get Geitz, a good pre-promo warrior, and the only good warrior (though that's not saying much when your competition is Dorcas and Bartre...), as opposed to Wallace, whom is outclassed by Oswin. Also, fog of war maps stink.

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21 minutes ago, SMEDIA said:

I always got for the Linus map; fighting Lloyd on the Hector map is a bitch.

Really? I’ve always found Lloyd super easy on HHM since you can bait him down to right above the forts turn one and just wreck him turn two. Linus seems more annoying since you actually have to play the map to kill him.

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1 minute ago, Aut said:

Really? I’ve always found Lloyd super easy on HHM since you can bait him down to right above the forts turn one and just wreck him turn two. Linus seems more annoying since you actually have to play the map to kill him.

At the end of the day, he still is a swordmaster, and mobile swordmaster bosses in fog of war? Forget it.

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I like Geitz better then Wallace because while leveling up Bartre is needed in Hector mode if you want Karla, Geitz is the better Warrior.  Other then the fact I normally bench any lord not named Hector after they reach level 20.

8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

At the end of the day, he still is a swordmaster, and mobile swordmaster bosses in fog of war? Forget it.

Plus this.

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11 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

At the end of the day, he still is a swordmaster, and mobile swordmaster bosses in fog of war? Forget it.

Yes but he’s a really stupid swordmaster who’s positioned in the worst way possible. Both base Marcus (w/ Silver Lance and S lances) and base Hawkeye (w/ swordreaver) have 71 hit, which is about 83% true hit, and both do equal to or more than half of Lloyd’s health. If Ninian sings for one of them, the odds of success are super high, especially if Hawkeye uses a pure water (since I’m fairly sure that the light brand does magic damage in melee) since Lloyd’s hit is pretty bad if either are on a fort. It’s almost impossible to mess up.

Edited by Aut
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I don't level them up at all, let alone to 50 haha. Geitz is good but I don't find he's all that necessary in the modes in which you can reasonably level the lords that high, and the exp in HHM is so low early on that it's hard to level them up at all. (Hector notwithstanding, of course, because he'll probably be level 20 by that chapter. It's Eliwood and Lyn you have to consider).

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59 minutes ago, Aut said:

Yes but he’s a really stupid swordmaster who’s positioned in the worst way possible. Both base Marcus (w/ Silver Lance and S lances) and base Hawkeye (w/ swordreaver) have 71 hit, which is about 83% true hit, and both do equal to or more than half of Lloyd’s health. If Ninian sings for one of them, the odds of success are super high, especially if Hawkeye uses a pure water (since I’m fairly sure that the light brand does magic damage in melee) since Lloyd’s hit is pretty bad if either are on a fort. It’s almost impossible to mess up.

Except to get a swordreaver, I have to sidetrack from the objective since iirc, you can't get a swordreaver before this chapter. And I think this is ridiculously transparent damage control.

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3 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

No, sure lloyd's level is harder and more annoying but in a future chapter you will fight the other brother, on a trone! So if you kill linus you will have to fight lloyd with the insane bonuses of the throne, no thank you ima get critted a lot, if you kill lloyd first on the other hand (BY having the lords be under level 50 as the sum of their levels) you will have to fight linus in the throne and hes easier to take down more tedious but not annoying as when lloyd dodged everything. Ive seen very few peopple say this and others say its better to get the linus version, why?

Even then, you can get Lloyd off the throne by talking to him with Nino (yet to my knowledge she cannot do the same in Linus's version of COD. Kinda strange, though he is more brash than his brother). Yes, he becomes a moving Swordmaster boss, but in this case you can easily set things up beforehand. I think Lloyd will not attack Nino after the talk, but I can't recall, so you may want to rescue her out of there anyway.

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5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except to get a swordreaver, I have to sidetrack from the objective since iirc, you can't get a swordreaver before this chapter. And I think this is ridiculously transparent damage control.

Convoy warp + trade chain = EZ swordreaver. Since I’m going to assume that you would’ve bought something from that store anyways (I mean why would you not) all it takes is 1 8 move unit or 1 7 move unit + any other unit, unless you can take from the convoy and trade during the same turn, in which case all it requires is 2 units, doesn’t matter which, any two units. It’s really not at all hard to do. I’m curious what you mean by damage control, since I feel like my case for it being trivial is pretty strong. If you think my argument is poor give me a reason.

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6 hours ago, Baron the Shining Blade said:

Even then, you can get Lloyd off the throne by talking to him with Nino (yet to my knowledge she cannot do the same in Linus's version of COD. Kinda strange, though he is more brash than his brother). Yes, he becomes a moving Swordmaster boss, but in this case you can easily set things up beforehand. I think Lloyd will not attack Nino after the talk, but I can't recall, so you may want to rescue her out of there anyway.

Oh wow, you can get him off the throne. I guess that's why it's a rout map despite having a throne. I never knew that.

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9 hours ago, Aut said:

Yes but he’s a really stupid swordmaster who’s positioned in the worst way possible. Both base Marcus (w/ Silver Lance and S lances) and base Hawkeye (w/ swordreaver) have 71 hit, which is about 83% true hit, and both do equal to or more than half of Lloyd’s health. If Ninian sings for one of them, the odds of success are super high, especially if Hawkeye uses a pure water (since I’m fairly sure that the light brand does magic damage in melee) since Lloyd’s hit is pretty bad if either are on a fort. It’s almost impossible to mess up.

You be correct. The thing that sometimes gets people confused about what the magic swords target in FE7/8 is that at range, they only use 1/2 Str while up close it is all of the Str stat. Hence if you move a magic user to melee against L or L, you'll see a damage uptick compared to attacking at range, and possibly mistake it as swapping to Def targeting.

Also, thanks for the ease of Lloyd killing tip. I always shoot for Linus mode, even using restore points to arena grind Eliwood and Lyn as needed in New Resolve. Now I have less to worry about with fielding two meh sword infantry and wasting precious unit slots. Still, I do prefer Linus's map's design, and Geitz I kinda like as a character besides in gameplay.

 

9 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

I don't level them up at all, let alone to 50 haha. Geitz is good but I don't find he's all that necessary in the modes in which you can reasonably level the lords that high, and the exp in HHM is so low early on that it's hard to level them up at all. (Hector notwithstanding, of course, because he'll probably be level 20 by that chapter. It's Eliwood and Lyn you have to consider).

I think with Lyn Mode it is reasonable to get Lyn to 10, so with a 20 Hector assumed, there is 30 of the needed levels. You only need 19 more (since Eliwood starts at 1), and grabbing Eliwood three or four in the chapters before you are limited in who you can field is wholly possible, so only 15 levels are an issue. But an issue they indeed are. 

 

Also, from what I've heard, and I can see why, Lloyd's map is better for LTC due to Lloyd (on Hector Mode at least, but probably also Eliwood Mode) is much quicker to reach and kill. Whereas for Ranked, Linus is better, guess it has to do with Tactics requirements being lenient enough to allow for significant arena use?

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3 hours ago, Aut said:

Convoy warp + trade chain = EZ swordreaver. Since I’m going to assume that you would’ve bought something from that store anyways (I mean why would you not) all it takes is 1 8 move unit or 1 7 move unit + any other unit, unless you can take from the convoy and trade during the same turn, in which case all it requires is 2 units, doesn’t matter which, any two units. It’s really not at all hard to do. I’m curious what you mean by damage control, since I feel like my case for it being trivial is pretty strong. If you think my argument is poor give me a reason.

Because it'd take a HELL of a good argument to override the mobile Swordmaster boss in fog of war part... which you failed to deliver on. Miserably, at that.

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4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because it'd take a HELL of a good argument to override the mobile Swordmaster boss in fog of war part... which you failed to deliver on. Miserably, at that.

I was going to try, but realized there was really no much difference between the two. The main elements are simply going for Wallace or Geitz. FoW vs not FoW and Lloyd or Linus for boss choice. Otherwise, the only advantage might be normal vs hard mode for S ranking. The normal mode stats are identical for turn count, but Lloyd's route requires more EXP in less time and more funds. However, Hard mode grants you quite a bit of turns for a bit more exp and a highly higher funds ranking. If you add up all items with Geitz recruitment and stealable items your funds ranking is actually about 3500 gold short. Otherwise, Linus's chapter in hard mode does allow for probably a rather fast clear, but I would say its risky with two heroes near him and a bolting sage in front. Plus, you still need to get to the far corners to get the items to meet the fund ranking, steal the gem, and keep going. You could potentially save quite a few turns on Linus's mode over lloyd's. 

The other advantage is that in going for S ranking its actually good to train your lords for the EXP throughout the game, but when you start getting to the high levels needing on average lv17 per lord I think that's sort of hard to fit in all of those levels by that time.

I always thought Linus's level was neat, but... his hard mode bonuses are not even quite on the same level as Raven/Guy. I suppose maybe you'd want this route for getting Geitz on a 0% playthrough lol

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9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because it'd take a HELL of a good argument to override the mobile Swordmaster boss in fog of war part... which you failed to deliver on. Miserably, at that.

Dude, what the hell. You aren’t even giving me an argument to counteract mine, you’re just insulting my argument. Like I said, mobile fog of war swordmaster is to Lloyd’s detriment, since he’s basically guarenteed to put himself in an awful position. He goes right next to the fort/forts, and you have two units that at base are pulling decent hit on him with good survivability. Lloyd has 35 hit (~25 true hit) 8 crit against Hawkeye, and he needs two hits and a crit to kill him (or two crits but that’s really unlikely). In two rounds of combat, the odds of Lloyd killing Hawkeye is 1%. If we assume that you dance for Hawkeye twice, then have Marcus attack, the chance of success is approximately 97%. This isn’t even bringing up healing Hawkeye, if you do that, the chance of success is, well, still 97 % (since Lloyd is so unlikely to kill Hawkeye either way.) How is a strategy with a 97% success rate a miserable failure of an argument. Because it seems to me that you’re just ignoring the solution shown to you.

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41 minutes ago, Aut said:

Dude, what the hell. You aren’t even giving me an argument to counteract mine, you’re just insulting my argument. Like I said, mobile fog of war swordmaster is to Lloyd’s detriment, since he’s basically guarenteed to put himself in an awful position. He goes right next to the fort/forts, and you have two units that at base are pulling decent hit on him with good survivability. Lloyd has 35 hit (~25 true hit) 8 crit against Hawkeye, and he needs two hits and a crit to kill him (or two crits but that’s really unlikely). In two rounds of combat, the odds of Lloyd killing Hawkeye is 1%. If we assume that you dance for Hawkeye twice, then have Marcus attack, the chance of success is approximately 97%. This isn’t even bringing up healing Hawkeye, if you do that, the chance of success is, well, still 97 % (since Lloyd is so unlikely to kill Hawkeye either way.) How is a strategy with a 97% success rate a miserable failure of an argument. Because it seems to me that you’re just ignoring the solution shown to you.

Well, as I see it, Geitz and not dealing with a fog of war map is better over the long term than getting a marginally easier boss in the future. Simply put, I think fog of war is just that damn bad. About the only good thing about Lloyd's map is that it's better for LTC and speedruns.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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12 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, as I see it, Geitz and not dealing with a fog of war map is better over the long term than getting a marginally easier boss in the future. Simply put, I think fog of war is just that damn bad. About the only good thing about Lloyd's map is that it's better for LTC and speedruns.

As far as I see it, Geitz is the only good thing about going to Linus’s FFO. Lloyd’s map is significantly easier since it’s barely even a map at optimal speeds, fog of war or not, Linus is much less annoying to deal with than Lloyd in COD, and most importantly, I don’t have to train Lyn and Eliwood, both of whom are bad. I find getting Hector to level 20 by the time that map comes up a bit of a stretch, much less Eliwood and Lyn having an average level of 15 or higher, which you 100% need in order to get Linus’s FFO. Last time I played HHM Raven was level 14 going into LL, and I consider Raven significantly better than Eliwood and Lyn, just to give you an idea. So pardon me when I say that I think Geitz is not worth the trouble, especially since he’s basically the only good thing about going to his map.

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On 6/10/2018 at 10:09 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd say that more people advise getting Linus's version of FFO since you can get Geitz, a good pre-promo warrior, and the only good warrior (though that's not saying much when your competition is Dorcas and Bartre...), as opposed to Wallace, whom is outclassed by Oswin. Also, fog of war maps stink.

Saying that he's a good warrior and yet saying that he's not much is pretty much saying that he's not worthy.

That being said, I have not recruited him so I don't know how he is in the end. But he's a good bow user so he'll dish out those fliers easily.

As for the OP, it really depends on you. If you want a change from the usual, then go for it. It shouldn't be difficult to get Lyn to lv 20 fully at Lyn's tale so that already solves one of the problems.

 

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17 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Saying that he's a good warrior and yet saying that he's not much is pretty much saying that he's not worthy.

Way to misread there. I said that while Geitz is the best warrior, it's not much of a contest since his competition is pretty bad.

3 hours ago, Aut said:

As far as I see it, Geitz is the only good thing about going to Linus’s FFO. Lloyd’s map is significantly easier since it’s barely even a map at optimal speeds, fog of war or not, Linus is much less annoying to deal with than Lloyd in COD, and most importantly, I don’t have to train Lyn and Eliwood, both of whom are bad. I find getting Hector to level 20 by the time that map comes up a bit of a stretch, much less Eliwood and Lyn having an average level of 15 or higher, which you 100% need in order to get Linus’s FFO. Last time I played HHM Raven was level 14 going into LL, and I consider Raven significantly better than Eliwood and Lyn, just to give you an idea. So pardon me when I say that I think Geitz is not worth the trouble, especially since he’s basically the only good thing about going to his map.

Well, the exp argument is more understandable than the "it's an easier map" one (by which I actually mean I'm more accepting of it). As for Linus being easier, he's easier to double, sure, but...

On 6/10/2018 at 10:36 AM, Aut said:

Linus is not nearly as annoying as Lloyd in COD (actually you can ORKO him with base Jaffar with about a 50% success rate which is pretty cool).

...I call bullshit on the stuff I bolded. One, Linus has a luck stat. Two, Silencer is less likely to trigger against bosses. Meaning that 50% success rate you're bragging about? Try closer to 10% (base Jaffar has 28 crit against him - which translates to a 7% chance it works).

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34 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, the exp argument is more understandable than the "it's an easier map" one (by which I actually mean I'm more accepting of it). As for Linus being easier, he's easier to double, sure, but...

...I call bullshit on the stuff I bolded. One, Linus has a luck stat. Two, Silencer is less likely to trigger against bosses. Meaning that 50% success rate you're bragging about? Try closer to 10% (base Jaffar has 28 crit against him - which translates to a 7% chance it works).

I still stand by that it’s an easier map, since you can beat it quite quickly with a really good chance of success, and the other map is, if nothing else, significantly longer (I.E. doesn’t end turn 2), so there are more chances for things to go wrong.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Jaffar does have about a 50% chance to ORKO. With the brave sword (and FIlia’s might). High damage at a kinda OK hit rate (I think it’s a bit more than 65). Approximately a 50% chance of killing him. Pretty nice (and he can kill on enemy phase if player phase fails). I didn’t even factor in crits, since he has that hoplon guard.

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