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Is "Teacher" the avatar?


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15 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

I actually loved Berseria and Xillia (1), whereas the ones I despise with my entire being are Graces and Zesitira (I don't even consider DotNW a game). But I do consider the Tales of series to be similar to Fire Emblem in the sense of what I expect from a game. These games are NEVER going to be like Persona or Dragon Age or any of the major players, so as a standard I think Tales of is a good comparison for the games.

But I was more saying I really don't want them to do a silent protagonist at all, and I fear that if they DO it, it will come out being the mess that Ludger was from Xillia 2.

Well, at least we are agreed that Zestiria was bad. If anything, I despise it more than DotNW. The only character I liked was Rose (who was probably one of the best female leads after Tear, IMO). I hated the combat reworks. I despised that I was getting new combat tutorials constantly (to the point that I could not remember more than half of their mechanics). I found their difficulty spikes unpredictable, frequent, and absurd. And I can't even comment on the story, because I gave up on that disgrace of a game about 40 hours in (and had not grown to enjoy the story to that point).

 

Edit: 

Regarding Persona, IS did collaborate with Atlus to make SMT x FE. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked up some tips and tropes from them, seeing as how they are on good terms.

Edited by Etheus
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16 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Well, at least we are agreed that Zestiria was bad. If anything, I despise it more than DotNW. The only character I liked was Rose (who was probably one of the best female leads after Tear, IMO). I hated the combat reworks. I despised that I was getting new combat tutorials constantly (to the point that I could not remember more than half of their mechanics). I found their difficulty spikes unpredictable, frequent, and absurd. And I can't even comment on the story, because I gave up on that disgrace of a game about 40 hours in (and had not grown to enjoy the story to that point).

 

Edit: 

Regarding Persona, IS did collaborate with Atlus to make SMT x FE. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked up some tips and tropes from them, seeing as how they are on good terms.

I didn't even finish Zestiria tbh. I also stopped about 45 hours in. The story was incoherent and I hated Sorey with a passion. Though, I DO appreciate it (vaguely) on a secondplay through with a friend after finishing Berseria because I think it makes the game faintly more bearable. And I do love Rose (and Edna), so they definitely help. But DotNW I only got maybe an hour into the story and I could NOT stand Emil or Marta at all, like I just couldn't.

Well, I HOPE they picked up something, tbh, because I would love an FE game at a higher caliber. And an avatar character done right!

 

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19 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

I didn't even finish Zestiria tbh. I also stopped about 45 hours in. The story was incoherent and I hated Sorey with a passion. Though, I DO appreciate it (vaguely) on a secondplay through with a friend after finishing Berseria because I think it makes the game faintly more bearable. And I do love Rose (and Edna), so they definitely help. But DotNW I only got maybe an hour into the story and I could NOT stand Emil or Marta at all, like I just couldn't.

Well, I HOPE they picked up something, tbh, because I would love an FE game at a higher caliber. And an avatar character done right!

 

I think that the only thing that got me through most of DotNW until the disgusting difficulty spike at the final boss (he could 2 shot team members with auto-attacks, wtf) was that Emil was very fun to play as. Don't get me wrong. He had a terrible personality (as did Marta), but his combat animations and aerial-heavy combos just felt so very right. 

 

As a series, I consider Fire Emblem to be nothing if not ambitious. Ambition is the greatest strength and greatest folley of IS. Even when their risks fail, it speaks of an admirable desire to evolve their franchise that I think most of us here don't appreciate.

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17 hours ago, eclipse said:

Just how much armor did you want to remove? :P:

I think it's possible to make an effective main character avatar. . .but it would have to be an insanely ambitious game.  First, I think the player would have to have meaningful choices when it comes to certain decisions.  Second, those choices need realistic consequences.  The Conquest Chapter 16 choice would be an example of one such path - either recruit a character or get some items.  Now imagine if there were many more choices like that, but they affected things like who allies with you, which of your recruited units leave, what maps you play, etc.  If you decide to be the MC who's obnoxious, you end the game with no allies or something like that.  If you try to backstab people too often/curry everyone's favor, you're more likely to have your troops desert.  If you steadfastly stay with one side, it'll affect things like store prices, etc.

This is true, it is possible but much more challenging.  I think Tactics Ogre: LUCT did a good job with making your decisions alter the story, path, other characters.  I like your ideas here, and I hope if they go with the main character being the focus and avatar, they implement some of these.  If they do it like this I would be fine and even supportive of MC avatar.  

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4 hours ago, Lewyn said:

This is true, it is possible but much more challenging.  I think Tactics Ogre: LUCT did a good job with making your decisions alter the story, path, other characters.  I like your ideas here, and I hope if they go with the main character being the focus and avatar, they implement some of these.  If they do it like this I would be fine and even supportive of MC avatar.  

 i mean tactics ogre is a legendary game but there's a reason there have not been any games to ever match it. Matsuno has no peers.

it'd be unreasonable to expect IS to match the kind of storycrafting that Matsuno was capable of.

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I'm expecting teacher to be an avatar and to be honest I kind of want them to be the main character, similar to Corrin in Fates. I know it's an unpopular opinion but I like how Birthright at least handled them. You can design them and make choices for them while still letting them have their own character, even if it is a bit of a generic one. I'd love to see what kind of character the teacher has and see them grow as the main character. If they aren't a main character that'd be fine as well but at the very least I'd like them to have a character of their own despite being an avatar.

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I agree with @Sunsurge. I prefer the approach with Robin as oppose to Corrin. The other FE:A characters has the right balance importance as Robin. I hope FE:3H will be the same with some improvements. 

8 hours ago, Etheus said:

A good example of how to handle a silent protagonist would be the Persona franchise. If FE can base its avatar on that, we may have a success on our hands.

That would be great if this happens. 

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20 hours ago, LorisaGoldfish said:

The "I will return here someday, my teacher. Promise me that you won't forget me," bit at the end of the trailer leads me to believe that if Teacher is in fact the Avatar, they might be more plot relevant than what most people seem to want.

The fact they're named after a demon lord already has me expecting them to be ageless/the reincarnation of something and upstage the final act of the game.

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5 hours ago, bufkus said:

 i mean tactics ogre is a legendary game but there's a reason there have not been any games to ever match it. Matsuno has no peers.

it'd be unreasonable to expect IS to match the kind of storycrafting that Matsuno was capable of.

Yeah Tactics Ogre LUCT, particularly that astounding PSP remake is just among the absolute most brilliant and incredible game experiences one can have.  One of the definite must plays of not just the genre, but among all games.  It is just beyond sad that the Ogre series never got many entries, and likely will never get another game.  Can you imagine how Ogre Battle, the super micro managing RTS, shook the SNES at the time?  Jesus.  He also was doing the similar Final Fantasy Tactics series, but even that looks to have ended a long time ago.  

This is the thing it isn't companies, but great visionaries/individuals that make memorable games.  Why so many great indie games have come out in recent years, thanks to making games being much easier due to all the tools available.  Fire Emblem did have this with Shouzou Kaga a man of great ambition and vision.  Teaming up with producer/genuis innovater Gunpei Yokoi (responsible for creating the game boy, virtual boy, working on Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus and Metroid) they put out the first 4 games in the series.  Taking leaps in game design each time, and trying to craft memorable stories/characters as well as constantly stretch what these type of games could do.  

Yes these games are very old and 20-30 years from then it is easy to go, well this wasn't good or that.  However this was the golden age of Fire Emblem, where the series was ambitious and trying with each entry to do more and more.  Where it had clear direction.  Where it wasn't concerned with oh will adding more boobs make more money, or do people like avatars or not, or whatever.  It was a man and a vision of what he thought the games should be, as any great artist toils at their work to fulfill their personal ambitions and desires.  

 

 

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13 hours ago, Etheus said:

I don't think I'd hold up Tales as an example series for much (good or bad) anymore. Vesperia was the last great Tales game, IMO, with every game since ranging from decent, if unremarkable (Xillia, Graces, Berseria) to legitimately among the worst games I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing (Zestiria and Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World). 

A good example of how to handle a silent protagonist would be the Persona franchise. If FE can base its avatar on that, we may have a success on our hands.

And here I thought I was the only one who viewed Vesperia as the last great Tales game. :D

Seriously, Symphonia, Abyss, and Vesperia are 3 of my favorite JRPG's, and I can't believe how after all that the franchise just tanked. Graces F was a disgrace in every way (lame characters, dumb combat, average everything else).

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I remember that Eldelgard requested his instruction before battle started, so yeah basically same situation as with Mark.

3 hours ago, The DanMan said:

The fact they're named after a demon lord already has me expecting them to be ageless/the reincarnation of something and upstage the final act of the game.

I think his name is meant to be symbolic, rather then literal (and we had demon lord possession done with Robin already). 

Apparently Ham son Noah invoked Beleth/Byleth and with it's help wrote book of mathematics. So perfect name for "Sensei". Plus this demon has "power over love". Which obviously fit FE tacticians, right?

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I'll say this much, if Teacher is the Avatar (which seems to be mostly a certainty now) then he already has my vote for best default look for an Avatar yet.

Seriously, he looks so much cooler than Robin and Corrin, and unlike the latter, he's actually wearing shoes and not wearing armor that looks like a bodysuit.

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23 hours ago, The DanMan said:

The fact they're named after a demon lord already has me expecting them to be ageless/the reincarnation of something and upstage the final act of the game.

I actually wouldn't mind a plot twist where it's revealed all the player's choices were all just an act prior to his/her turning point, and Beyleth is revealed to have his/her own character and personality - that he/she was never really the player all along. It would be an interesting plot event to occur in a story, though it would put a definite downer on subsequent playthroughs.

Edited by Arcphoenix
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I've seen games that try to do this before; it really depends on how well it's telegraphed prior to the change. If it literally comes out of the blue, that inhances the shock value at the cost of any realism. Part of the fun with that is going back through the dialogue and picking out the little hints beforehand. So with a protagonist like Beyleth, I'm not sure how well that can be portrayed if we want him to be under the control of the player.

 

That being said, there is one game that I feel did something similar very well. I won't name names because I don't want to spoil anything, but the twist there was very well handled.

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On 6/13/2018 at 9:48 PM, The DanMan said:

The fact they're named after a demon lord already has me expecting them to be ageless/the reincarnation of something and upstage the final act of the game.

soo pretty much robin 2.0

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On 6/12/2018 at 4:57 PM, Florete said:

I think so. The character was the one being controlled, looked somewhat androgynous, and never spoke. Reeks of an avatar.

Dmitri and Claude never spoke either, so that's not much to go on.

On 6/12/2018 at 6:26 PM, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Its pretty much confirmed there's an Avatar.

Where?

On 6/12/2018 at 6:39 PM, NinjaMonkey said:

Why would they have you create a MU, and not make them the main character. Oh, and before someone brings up Mark, you don't get to customise their appearance at all.

That's not the same as saying that there definitely is a MU. So which is it? Is it a MU for sure or not?

Well Mark, Kris, and even Robin weren't the main characters of their games. And no, it's not confirmed. Everyone's just assuming.

On 6/12/2018 at 7:26 PM, YingofDarkness said:

The fact that they named the three main lords, but just keep Bayleth and Teacher screams Avatar to me. At least it seems like they are going to be taking a backseat this time, and just instructing the lords. As to whether or not they could be a Jeigan, they could be but they could also just start out at level 1 like the others have. After all being a teacher does not mean that they have actual combat experience. They could have just come out fresh from military school and are teaching the lords about how tactics work. They might have even taken the job specifically because it would give them the combat training they sorely lack. It would be cool to have them be a Jeigan though, and it would fit more with the idea of the Avatar taking a backseat to what is going on.

They didn't name any of the lords in the narration.

On 6/12/2018 at 10:04 PM, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Plus they even mention interacting with other characters and building relationships so yep S-Supports are pretty much a given and likely romantic events.

You could interact with other characters and build relationships in FE7 too, but it didn't have S-Supports.

On 6/13/2018 at 12:06 AM, Humanoid said:

When I first started Awakening, I remember being annoyed when Chrom kept stealing my thunder. "Whose game is this anyway?", I wondered. Turns out it was his.

Obviously I now know that even having a player character was considered off-the-wall for the series, but it does mean I have no firm opinion on whether a PC is desirable or not, and likewise don't mind whether they're a central or more peripheral figure in the plot.

I do love choice and consequence though, and while obviously no one is expecting Obsidian or CDPR levels of agency, I'd like to see some "boots"-like choices at minimum. I certainly do remember being annoyed at Awakening's fake choices.

Someone on reddit made a really good post about how Awakening's fake choices were intentionally fake. If you read the dialogue right after Emmeryn dies, Chrom says something about how he felt helpless to do anything, kind of like how whatever choice you made wouldn't make a difference.

On 6/13/2018 at 4:39 AM, Azurodin said:

Between TheLostWhisperer and I analyzing the trailer over and over, we realized that right at the end when Byleth crits her voice is different from the narrator's. We've already confirmed Christina Vee is the narrator who is Edelgard/Edgelord's voice and the fact that she specified who she played (in a Twitter post) implies somebody else voices Byleth. Not to mention her voice only came in at the exact moment she critted, so this could justify her being female despite the general assumption that it's a male. Therefore this could mean they, regardless of gender,  could be playable besides another stand in role and given how androgynous he/she appears to look (could tie to demonic backstory given name) it seems fitting for the avatar.  

To me it just sounds like normal intonation when someone puts more force behind their words. It still sounded like Edelgard.

13 hours ago, Arcphoenix said:

I actually wouldn't mind a plot twist where it's revealed all the player's choices were all just an act prior to his/her turning point, and Beyleth is revealed to have his/her own character and personality - that he/she was never really the player all along. It would be an interesting plot event to occur in a story, though it would put a definite downer on subsequent playthroughs.

It wouldn't even have to be the player's choice. If Byleth was just acting as their teacher to get them to trust him and help him reach his goal before he betrays them it would make for an interesting plot.

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2 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

We actually seen Eldelgard asking  Sensei to give orders in battle, right before player took control. Yes we are Byleth.

Exactly...this isn't hard to grasp...

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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9 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

We actually seen Eldelgard asking  Sensei to give orders in battle, right before player took control. Yes we are Byleth.

Not necessarily. If Byleth is the tactician then he would be giving out the orders in the world. He'd be like a medium for our directions.

Edit:

Are people really asking a obivious question these question be pissing me pff for real. It like in ypur face he is the MU he a silent lead ypu actually pick what he says(ftom what we have seen so far) it not that to see he is the avatar.  

Dmitri and Claude haven't spoken yet either. I'm just saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Edited by immatx
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16 minutes ago, immatx said:

Not necessarily. If Byleth is the tactician then he would be giving out the orders in the world. He'd be like a medium for our directions.

Medium for our direction =  avatar.

Definition of word doesn't get any simplier then that.

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1 minute ago, Tenzen12 said:

Medium for our direction =  avatar.

Definition of word doesn't get any simplier then that.

No, an avatar is a physical representation of the player. This would just be a way for the players orders to seem like they were actually coming from someone in the game.

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Really what tipped me off to the fact that byleth was an avatar was the fact that edelgard kept referring to someone as "teacher" or "instructor" which we can most likely assume to be byleth based on the dialogue where he tells her to work on axe training. Not too long before that we see his name is indeed byleth so it really begs the question as to why she would constantly refer to them as teacher rather say their name or Master byleth or something. My guess is because Byleth's name is either not finalized or you can customize and in that case they need something to call you with pre-recorded lines and "teacher" or "instructor" is perfect for that. it's kind of like how they refer to the protagonist in P5 as joker to avoid saying his real name.

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4 minutes ago, immatx said:

No, an avatar is a physical representation of the player. This would just be a way for the players orders to seem like they were actually coming from someone in the game.

Again that's same thing. By your definition Robin or Kris wouldn't be avatar either.

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