Hawkwing

Dragons, Shapeshifters, Robots, and One-Man Armies? Discussion/Ideas about characters that won't use formations/generics.

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One of the more noticeable additions to the next Fire Emblem game is the fact that a group of generic soldiers now accompany a character. This should make battles seem larger than they were in the past, and the new formations option will undoubtedly add several new strategic options to the Fire Emblem gameplay we all know and love (for the most part).

It also means that there will undoubtedly be a few characters that buck this new mechanic by ignoring it altogether. The giant robot in the trailer already proves this, but it can't be the only example. And this thread will be about sharing ideas about what they could be and how they could work.

As for some of my own:

Dragons

It's very possible that manaketes will return, or at least, some form of a dragon will eventually join your side. In most works of fiction dragons tend to be quite large, and Fire Emblem isn't an exception, so a single dragon being able to stand up to an entire squadron won't be jarring. To make up for loosing formations, dragons could have different methods to attack instead, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. For example, they could swing their tail as a powerful but slow and easy to dodge attack, or they could use their claws for a faster and more accurate attack, but at the risk of harm due to being closer to the action. Their dragon breath could tear up low res units, but be near useless against those with a high resistance stat, and so on and so forth.

It's possible that dragonstones won't return, given that we don't know if this Fire Emblem game will have degradation, or they could appear and work similarly to how the did in the original Mystery of the Emblem, where dragons remained transform for several turns instead of a single battle at the cost of dragonstones having fewer uses.

Shapeshifters

We don't know whether or not shapeshifting units will return at this point, and it is very possible that they will work as normal squadrons, with the generics being other shapeshifters.

It's also possible that one or two shapeshifters will either be strong/violent enough that they don't need soldiers behind them, and/or they can transform into a wider variety of animals/classes than normal. This could mean that instead of formations, they have transformations, and can turn into a different creature on a whim to best handle the situation. Whether they will be limited to animals, other classes (like Xane), or bizarre and otherworldy creatures (or all of the above) is up to debate.

Assassins/Thieves

It's hard to see characters like Jaffar or Gaius leading a group of soldiers, considering their skill set lies elsewhere. However, assassins and thieves could still have their use in this game, while still not being front-line units. For assassins, it's possible that they will have the ability to ignore formations, or at least, downplay their bonuses/advantages (if the generics bring any) and will have special abilities that target the enemy commander, such as sniping them from a distance, sneaking in during the chaos of a battle to kill the commander, impersonating a generic soldier and either taking temporary control of an enemy unit and/or getting a better shot at assassinating a commander without having to deal with the generics first. Despite these abilities, they still won't be one-man armies, and can't hold out in longer fights.

As for thieves, the formations menu could replaced with actions such as pick-pocketing (gaining gold from enemy generics, and the more there are, the more money you'll get) stealing (obviously taking an item or weapon from an enemy) or possibly even capturing (we'll have to wait and see if this mechanic returns or not, as well as how it will function). This makes them a high-risk, high-reward kind of class because you will have to place them next to an enemy unit in order for them to activate their skills, but the benefits could very well be work it.

 

That's only a few ideas. What are your thoughts on characters that won't command a squadron of their own for one reason or another?

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I kind of feel like Healers/Stave users wouldn't have troops either. It seems like all the troops wield the same weapon types as the unit they're following and it would be a bit weird/funny to see a whole hoard of healers running around together like that.

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24 minutes ago, Troublesome Knight said:

I kind of feel like Healers/Stave users wouldn't have troops either. It seems like all the troops wield the same weapon types as the unit they're following and it would be a bit weird/funny to see a whole hoard of healers running around together like that.

We already see evidence against this as Dimitri has a squad of sword welders despite wielding a lance himself, so healers could easily get a small group of "guards"

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I can't really see dragons, shapeshifters, or thieves having squadrons under their commands. Although if shapeshifting units are like the laguz, taguel etc. I could see other shifters in their squad kind of like in Radian Dawn part 3's prologue where Skrimir and Ranulf have a massive horde of generic laguz charging the enemy with them. Thieves not having squads could just be to further limit their combat potential which makes sense since the class isn't meant for combat in the first place. Also the prospect of assassins being able to ignore formation mechanics (whatever those may be) to directly attack or affect the commander sounds interesting and give the class an actual niches, instead of silencer/lethality, that actual makes me want to use them.

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8 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

We already see evidence against this as Dimitri has a squad of sword welders despite wielding a lance himself, so healers could easily get a small group of "guards"

now that you point it out, I just realised how painfully inefficient is is to give common foot soldiers a weapon as expensive as a sword.

anyways, I would love to see the mystery of the emblem manakete mechanics return, they are the only reason who I would even so much as glance at mystery, to have the dragons be able to maintain their commanding presence outside of battles is something I really want back.

 

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To be honest, I always imagined that games on a larger scale (I.E. not FE7 or Sacred Stones or the early parts of Path of Radiance but rather games like Genealogy, the latter half of Alm's Route in SoV, and Radiant Dawn) had more generic soldiers we just weren't seeing supporting the units we did. As it stands, to me this is largely just validation of a long-running head-cannon.

Feels nice.

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In the Total War series stealth units can come in a squad that is smaller in size compared to other units.  Maybe represent it with lower HP or that they take extra damage if surrounded?

 

As for healers and their retinue they can do it like in Dawn of War or Langrisser.  Characters can have their squad customized to fit the needs of the battlefield. 

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32 minutes ago, Mad-manakete said:

To be honest, I always imagined that games on a larger scale (I.E. not FE7 or Sacred Stones or the early parts of Path of Radiance but rather games like Genealogy, the latter half of Alm's Route in SoV, and Radiant Dawn) had more generic soldiers we just weren't seeing supporting the units we did. As it stands, to me this is largely just validation of a long-running head-cannon.

Feels nice.

Same.

Although, on the topic of this thread, what I'm really hoping is that at some point, the game bucks this mechanic altogether.I hope that for some reason you're eventually alone with your closest knights, and then you're attacked without time to call your troops ala the Black Knight-Micaiah chapter in Radiant Dawn. You suddenly wouldn't be able to use the formation mechanic, which would add to the OH CRAP of the ambush.

I'm also hoping for a multi-part endgame: one with the squadrons, and one of the traditional Fire Emblem only-the-chosen-may-enter maps, where the mechanic is dropped again, but I'm not sure if that's likely since it's probably going to be the game's signature thing?

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8 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

What are your thoughts on characters that won't command a squadron of their own for one reason or another?

Artillery / Ballistician unit (not character). Well, not commanding a squad of troops, but crews. Reloading, reposition, etc. Long-ranged single AoE attack.

Witch class. Single-AoE magic. Teleport : how can the Witch able to bring her troops along with her? If she able to do it, she may teleporting, not only her pairing-ups, but entire ally-unit from the start.

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36 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

What about Dancers?

Instead of there being a single dancer, it could be a band of traveling performers, with musical instruments and other small circus acts alongside dancing to inspire a unit to move twice. One or two members could know self-defense, meaning they still have the option to attack and defend, even if they won't be that good at it.

That, or they might be replaced by military musicians, which could be interesting as they were historically used to order attacks, retreats, etc., so it's possible that they could provide specific bonuses to a unit depending on what song they play.

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3 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Instead of there being a single dancer, it could be a band of traveling performers, with musical instruments and other small circus acts alongside dancing to inspire a unit to move twice. One or two members could know self-defense, meaning they still have the option to attack and defend, even if they won't be that good at it.

That, or they might be replaced by military musicians, which could be interesting as they were historically used to order attacks, retreats, etc., so it's possible that they could provide specific bonuses to a unit depending on what song they play.

Maybe no dancers but soliders carrying the army's colors (flag) and being a "banner" unit. They could literally use the rally skills from FE Awakening and boost your stats! Or something like that

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I really hope they won't be present on every map, since not all battles should be of a grand scale. I hope we do get some missions that are more sneaky with an elite force like Lucia chapter in Radiant Dawn. So I hope all of the normies are only present when it makes sense for them to be there.

As far special units, I could see a healer traveling with many other healers because someone needs to patch up the other generics. As for shifters, I could see them leading them a pack of other shifters, since they usually come from a tribe or a country, with the taguel being a special case. As for dragons, they can be standalone, since dragons are supposed to be fierce foes in lore.

5 hours ago, Corrobin said:

What about Dancers?

I could see a dancer being standalone. All it takes is 1 to lift the spirits of many.

If not, they could lead a pack of dancers, like a dance squad or troupe. Or it could be a band with 3 or 4 defined characters making 1 unit on the battlefield. It could be interesting if you're allowed to rotate who takes the lead, with each member having a different bonus, i.e. Member 1 raises attack, Member 2 raises avoid, and so on and so forth. It would also be interesting to start with one member and rescue/gather more members throughout the game, and the more members you get, the more people you can refresh at a time.

1 hour ago, Tediz64 said:

Maybe no dancers but soliders carrying the army's colors (flag) and being a "banner" unit. They could literally use the rally skills from FE Awakening and boost your stats! Or something like that

Like rallymen or a drumline? That could be cool. But I think from a visual standpoint, some sort of music troupe would be more interesting. But that's just me. I like the visual contrast of a music troupe; it's like a the saying/trope of beauty residing in chaos, with music being beauty and war being chaos.

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12 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

Maybe no dancers but soliders carrying the army's colors (flag) and being a "banner" unit. They could literally use the rally skills from FE Awakening and boost your stats! Or something like that

 

Like pic related I suppose!

 

9coru9h.jpg

 

 

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To be honest, I hope that there would be more advanced tech in this game. FE14 teased us with Mechanists and robotic puppets and Tank Ballistician, if only they bring back the Archanea Ballistician, that would be cool. Robotic enemies are confirmed anyway, as seen in the trailer, possibly hinting either a golem situation like the Stoneborn in fates or more advanced technology compared to other FE continents.

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I have no evidence to support my hypothesis but I think the dudes surrounding the units are a representation of HP that can be used in formation to add minor buffs

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