Who do you want to see as Echo characters?

[thecrimsonflash]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

I wonder if the Black Knight has any mild shot of being the Ike echo now that I've thought about it more. Same sword teacher etc.

He did get a mii fighter costume, this was alongside Chrom as the only other fire emblem mii fighter costume, that does imply the black knight had some legitimate thought put in regarding his appearance as a mii fighter, there is also the matter of him being a trophy in both brawl and wii u, he also was featured in smash tour as a trophy which let your smash attacks one shot on occasion, it wouldn't be the hardest thing ever as the black knight's radiant dawn model wouldn't need any massive tweeks for smash bros (new textures, soften out a few edges, and Ike's animations would only need minor changes, though animations are optional), he is also one of if not the most popular villains in fire emblem, then going from that, smash bros. has an unfortunate lack of villains, heroes also double dipped on his inclusion which implies some popularity. So I would say that including him as an echo fighter is in the air, it is not so unreasonable that is is outright off the table, but it may be more unlikely due to not being recent. 

I wonder if there is any way to get sales numbers for the mii fighter costumes?

edit: there is also his heroes starter pack deal, which nets you a 5* black knight, the only character to get this in heroes.

Edited June 24, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Jave]

I really don't see BK happening as an Ike echo. I feel the builds are way too different for BK to pull Ike's moveset in a believable way.

Looking through different possibilities, I think Mach Rider could be a good echo for Captain Falcon.

[MacLovin]

10 hours ago, Jedi said:

I wonder if the Black Knight has any mild shot of being the Ike echo now that I've thought about it more. Same sword teacher etc.

it's possible, but the character model would have to be bulkier though.

Hmn what about the possibility of Birdo as Yoshi's echo. 

[Lord_Brand]

I could see Groose being a Falcon Echo, which in my opinion is more fitting than Ganondorf on account of Skyloft's bird focus. Blaziken could also work well as a Falcon Echo.

Katt, Fay, and Miyu would work well as Fox Echoes, finally giving Star Fox some playable female reps. Katt's the most well-known after Krystal, so she's first in line, but Miyu was practically her prototype, so she could work as an alternate.

I could almost see a BotW-style Goron like Daruk as a DK Echo, with the big, muscular arms and stubby legs. They don't really have that slouched gorilla posture though.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Lord_Brand

[Florete]

So people keep mentioning Chrom as an Ike echo, but I don't think it will happen for a variety of reasons. However, I do think there's a way Chrom could be playable, a way even I would be fine with.

A Lucina alt.

Remember: Chrom and Lucina are supposed to have the same fighting style. Warriors keeps to this by having them with the same moveset. But we don't want a third (arguably 4th) Marth on the roster, right? Well, Chrom could be what Lucina was originally planned as and get in as an alt of her. Alts can have their own name, art, and voice acting, and he wouldn't be yet another FE roster slot.

[DisobeyedCargo]

Rex for Shulk

what about pachirisu for pikachu? I can see Pikachu definitely getting an echo, and pachirisu would be perfect. Popular Pokémon, cute electric rodent, similar sizes (I think), and owned by a main character of the Pokémon anime.

 

Linkle would be cool to see, but I don't see it being possible considering her main weapons are crossbows. well we did have links crossbow training

What about Bowsers various different forms from the M&L series? They might be able to work

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo
Dang strikethrough

[Etrurian emperor]

On 15-6-2018 at 1:04 AM, DisobeyedCargo said:

I could see Rex as an echo fighter for shulk

Rex as an echo fighter feels like a waste to me. You can do it but that means throwing out a more unique moveset that could combine him with Pyra.

There is another character in his game who would be ideal choice for a Shulk Echo fighter. 

Spoiler

Malos wields a monado after all. 

But overall I don't really want to see much echo fighter. They are a much less appealing option. Sure, you could easily turn dark Samus into an echo fighter of Samus but why would you? It means giving her a boring moveset instead of using her Phazon powers for something interesting. And this goes for most characters like that. Making them echo fighters is always the least interesting option. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Rex as an echo fighter feels like a waste to me. You can do it but that means throwing out a more unique moveset that could combine him with Pyra.

Yeah after seeing armagons thoughts on this I agree with them on the whole rex echo for Shulk 

[The DanMan]

16 hours ago, Florete said:

So people keep mentioning Chrom as an Ike echo, but I don't think it will happen for a variety of reasons. However, I do think there's a way Chrom could be playable, a way even I would be fine with.

A Lucina alt.

Remember: Chrom and Lucina are supposed to have the same fighting style. Warriors keeps to this by having them with the same moveset. But we don't want a third (arguably 4th) Marth on the roster, right? Well, Chrom could be what Lucina was originally planned as and get in as an alt of her. Alts can have their own name, art, and voice acting, and he wouldn't be yet another FE roster slot.

Then why not just tweak some damage numbers and make him an Echo fighter?

I'd prefer if Echoes were just "premium alts" like that, but the Smash team seems to have decided otherwise-- I consider this very unlikely.

[Florete]

11 hours ago, The DanMan said:

Then why not just tweak some damage numbers and make him an Echo fighter?

I'd prefer if Echoes were just "premium alts" like that, but the Smash team seems to have decided otherwise-- I consider this very unlikely.

Because:

On 6/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, Florete said:

we don't want a third (arguably 4th) Marth on the roster, right?

Differences in play, no matter how slight, create differences in results, so they can't be alts.

[The DanMan]

7 hours ago, Florete said:

Because:

Differences in play, no matter how slight, create differences in results, so they can't be alts.

Sakurai himself said that Chrom wasn't included because he'd be too similar to Ike; if he got in as an Echo, he'd be one of Ike.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, The DanMan said:

Sakurai himself said that Chrom wasn't included because he'd be too similar to Ike; if he got in as an Echo, he'd be one of Ike.

Actually, what Sakurai said was: "When it came time to decide on a character from “Fire Emblem: Awakening”, I had even thought of a moveset for him. However in the long run, he was just in between Marth and Ike, so he wasn’t added.”

Him being closer to Ike comes from the Palutena's guidance conversation, but that shouldn't be considered definitive.

[Anacybele]

On 6/24/2018 at 2:30 PM, Jedi said:

I wonder if the Black Knight has any mild shot of being the Ike echo now that I've thought about it more. Same sword teacher etc.

Yeah, BK would make WAY more sense as an Ike echo than Chrom. He's much less boring too imo. BK is probably the only FE echo I'd be 100% cool with, actually.

[DisobeyedCargo]

29 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, BK would make WAY more sense as an Ike echo than Chrom. He's much less boring too imo. BK is probably the only FE echo I'd be 100% cool with, actually.

Wouldn't BK fight a lot differently due to his very heavy armor?

 

granted I'm not too far in POR so I'm probably missing some info, but that armour looks quite heavy  

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Wouldn't BK fight a lot differently due to his very heavy armor?

No. He and Ike had the same teacher, remember? Their fighting style is the same. Unlike Chrom's.

Also, that armor slows BK down less than one would think. It's a spoiler, but:

Spoiler

BK is Zelgius, if you don't know, and Zelgius is unusually fast, even in his armor. It's somewhat implied that it's due to his being bird laguz Branded. I wouldn't be surprised if he could jump and do Ike's Aether animation just fine. Though I could see him not being able to go as high.

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Anacybele

[DisobeyedCargo]

Just now, Anacybele said:

No. He and Ike had the same teacher, remember? Their fighting style is the same. Unlike Chrom's.

I know that

 

its just the BK is wearing a lot of very heavy armor, whereas Ike's seems very light in comparison. Heavy armor makes it more difficult to be fast in a fight 

[Anacybele]

Just now, DisobeyedCargo said:

I know that

 

its just the BK is wearing a lot of very heavy armor, whereas Ike's seems very light in comparison. Heavy armor makes it more difficult to be fast in a fight 

See my post edit, please.

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

See my post edit, please.

Not far enough in the game yet 

 

I'll take your word for it 

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Not far enough in the game yet 

 

I'll take your word for it 

Yeah, I think the only differences between Ike and BK if BK is an echo would be weight, hitboxes, Aether jump height, and maybe a small difference in speed with Ike being the slightly quicker of the two. Not including things like the Final Smash and taunts/victory animations, of course.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Anacybele

[Dai]

I really kinda don't see the Black Knight tossing Alondite into the air, leaping up after it, and spinning a few times in the midst of the air before swinging down. It just...looks really silly to imagine. Maybe everything *but* Aether. And even then, Neutral B would certainly need to be different.

[Jave]

Yeah, I don't see BK as an Ike echo at all. Lore wise it makes sense, but gameplay wise I just don't see it. The size, weight and hitboxes are just far too different, and while I presume it could work if BK gets plenty of changes, at that point it doesn't really qualify as en echo anymore.

I think Micaiah as a Zelda echo has a better shot than BK as an Ike echo.

[Baron the Shining Blade]

5 hours ago, Dai said:

I really kinda don't see the Black Knight tossing Alondite into the air, leaping up after it, and spinning a few times in the midst of the air before swinging down. It just...looks really silly to imagine. Maybe everything *but* Aether. And even then, Neutral B would certainly need to be different.

I don't remember exactly what hack it was, but there's one for SSB4 that inserted BK (probably over Ike's model) and they gave him warp powder as his Up B (appeared to be basically Mewtwo's Teleport but a bit faster and w/ the warp texture) and the ranged shockwave as his Neutral B (w/ his true-to-home, over-the-shoulder slashing animation and everything, but with Cloud's Blade Beam as the shockwave, I think). That was pretty much the only noteworthy stuff I saw in his moveset.

The warp powder makes sense and the fact that it drains BK's strength could be disregarded since Smash is more than willing to sacrifice a bit of historical accuracy to make movesets work. ....Or if you really wanted, he could have a debuff that greatly reduces his damage and knockback for 5 seconds whenever he uses his Up B. It'd have to be a pretty solid recovery to make up for it.

Whether it's his Neutral B or Side B, I want the shockwave to be somewhere in his moveset (but not Ike's custom up B "Aether Wave", please. That did not do it justice). It can be chargable, but the charge cannot be saved. I'd say make it normally as fast as Cloud's Limit Blade Beam, but without the extra slashes and with less knockback.

I've suddenly got the urge to fill in the rest of BK's moveset, so let's see here...

Down B: either Counter, or he momentarily brings out Wishblade for a unique attack. I know there's the idea switching between a sword and lance moveset , but as much as I would like to see that, I wouldn't expect Sakurai to go to that much trouble for an Echo Fighter. So I think a lance attack Down B would suffice.

Side B: one of Ike's custom Side B's from SSB4, Unyielding Blade, since that one's slower but stronger and has super armor.

Final Smash: Eclipse. Or I like to call it, "B****slash Deluxe". If BK gets that first hit in, he proceeds to use Eclipse on his opponent(s), yes all five delicious slashes to the face. If that's too drawn out for you, he could use the map version instead. Less b****slashing, but that's ok.

Taunts:

1. Side Taunt: He points Alondite towards his opponent(s), turns it sideways, and says "At your ready." Just like Zelgius does in The Crossing cutscene in RD just before facing Ranulf.
2. Up Taunt: Holds his sword upwards towards his chest, like if he were about to proc a crit in RD.
3. Down Taunt: Similar to Ike's down taunt but he plants Alondite gently, keeps his hand resting on the hilt instead of folding his arms (resembling Ike's official SSB4 render), and gives a more sinister "hmph".

Victory Poses:

1. He raises his sword past his non-dominant shoulder then brings it back down (RD victory pose). BK says, "You were a fool to challenge me."
2. He plants Alondite on the ground, both hands on its hilt (PoR official artwork) and says, "You were no match for a Rider of Daein." If using a Zelgius alt, he says "You were no match for the Commander of Begnion." If he wins against Ike, BK says, "Well fought, son of Gawain." while Zelgius adds a line to make another RD reference, "Well fought, son of Gawain. My dream is realized at last!"
3. He points Alondite out to his side (like when he first unsheathes it after offering Ragnell to Greil in PoR), then sheathes it. BK says, "No challenge? No...resistance?" (you all know this one, I hope) while Zelgius says in an almost berating tone, "You only wasted my time..." (RD's The Crossing cutscene once again)

24 minutes ago, Jave said:

Yeah, I don't see BK as an Ike echo at all. Lore wise it makes sense, but gameplay wise I just don't see it. The size, weight and hitboxes are just far too different, and while I presume it could work if BK gets plenty of changes, at that point it doesn't really qualify as en echo anymore.

I think Micaiah as a Zelda echo has a better shot than BK as an Ike echo.

BK/Zelgius is of course my first dream roster character, and I've always known that it had little chance of actually happening. Even with renaming of Echo Fighters suddenly making them more acceptable plus having had a Mii Fighter costume, I still do not hold my breath. Personally I think BK as an Echo Fighter can actually work pretty well. Likelihood is one thing, but c'mon, Ridley is playable now. Anything (that still abides by the golden rule) is possible.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Baron the Shining Blade

[Troykv]

53 minutes ago, Jave said:

Yeah, I don't see BK as an Ike echo at all. Lore wise it makes sense, but gameplay wise I just don't see it. The size, weight and hitboxes are just far too different, and while I presume it could work if BK gets plenty of changes, at that point it doesn't really qualify as en echo anymore.

I think Micaiah as a Zelda echo has a better shot than BK as an Ike echo.

I can imagine BK working with a moveset similar to Ike's... but the Zelgius's proportions makes this hard (specially because he would need to use the armor, and that makes him even bigger xD).

With Micaiah technically they would only need to make Zelda a bit smaller and change a bit the physics of the dress... and that it xDU.

[thecrimsonflash]

5 hours ago, Troykv said:

I can imagine BK working with a moveset similar to Ike's... but the Zelgius's proportions makes this hard (specially because he would need to use the armor, and that makes him even bigger xD).

With Micaiah technically they would only need to make Zelda a bit smaller and change a bit the physics of the dress... and that it xDU.

Micaiah as a zelda echo would require plenty of changes to make it believable, thani over din's fire would still need a completely different hurt box and new particle effects, a black knight or meg model (and subsequent animations) for rescue over phantom slash, and altered animations for rewarp and barrier, they could be combined with a light tome to allow for damage on close enemies. By the time we are done I do think the work necessary evens out or turns to BK's favor due to how many new assets need to be created for micaiah, with bk as an Ike echo, just size Ike up and they could stop there and most wouldn't give a crap.

@Baron the Shining Blade BK is one of those characters that I have wanted in smash for quite some time, I doubt it would ever happen, but I am still holding out, the mii fighter costume was really nice, but I would like to see him get a promotion, he borders on being the most popular villain in the series, and he also does have that special deal in heroes, so he is at least vaguely relevant.

[Troykv]

2 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

Micaiah as a zelda echo would require plenty of changes to make it believable, thani over din's fire would still need a completely different hurt box and new particle effects, a black knight or meg model (and subsequent animations) for rescue over phantom slash, and altered animations for rewarp and barrier, they could be combined with a light tome to allow for damage on close enemies. By the time we are done I do think the work necessary evens out or turns to BK's favor due to how many new assets need to be created for micaiah, with bk as an Ike echo, just size Ike up and they could stop there and most wouldn't give a crap.

@Baron the Shining Blade BK is one of those characters that I have wanted in smash for quite some time, I doubt it would ever happen, but I am still holding out, the mii fighter costume was really nice, but I would like to see him get a promotion, he borders on being the most popular villain in the series, and he also does have that special deal in heroes, so he is at least vaguely relevant.

I understand your point...

But I still think Black Knight would look weird with Ike's animations xDU