My problem with most legendary weapons

[DisobeyedCargo]

Pretty much all legendary weapons have this same issue

 

this is the legendary sword my family has safeguarded for millenia, surviving all this time due to magic surrounding it, oh you can only swing it 20 times before it's broken.

 

jsut give legendary weapons infinite durability! Does it really make sense that something like Tyurfing or Durandal should break? Why do they just not give them infinite uses considering you tend to not get them till endgame?

[Dismissed]

Two things: "game balance" and Hammerne. I call bull on the first one, as story should be integrated into gameplay. Whenever I hack an FE game, I make sure to make all legendary weapons indestructible.

The only legendary weapons that are indestructible are the Falchion, Ragnell, and Yato, and the last one's stretching it. Because of limited-use legendary weapons, I tend to hoard them until the final chapter in vanilla. Why can't we, as players, enjoy our hard-earned legendary weapons that show how far we've progressed (most of the time anyway)? I don't care if I got Excalibur in Chapter 4 or Aura in Chapter 2, they should be indestructible, dammit.

[DisobeyedCargo]

5 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

Two things: "game balance" and Hammerne. I call bull on the first one, as story should be integrated into gameplay. Whenever I hack an FE game, I make sure to make all legendary weapons indestructible.

The only legendary weapons that are indestructible are the Falchion, Ragnell, and Yato, and the last one's stretching it. Because of limited-use legendary weapons, I tend to hoard them until the final chapter in vanilla. Why can't we, as players, enjoy our hard-earned legendary weapons that show how far we've progressed (most of the time anyway)? I don't care if I got Excalibur in Chapter 4 or Aura in Chapter 2, they should be indestructible, dammit.

I know! They presumably have been stuck in some cave for 1000 years or over, so why are they so fragile despite lasting the poor storage conditions and such and appearing in supposedly perfect condition. 

It took the entire fujin Yumi in conquest, a whole legendary weapon to repair it, so yeah that things breakable.

theres also the other weapons the rainbow sage made, but for all we know they could have had like 20 uses if they didn't get rid of durability 

Edited June 17, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[Dismissed]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Sieg the third, Leo's ecology textbook, and that renamed electrified sword I gave to Matt Mercer in Fallout 4. I completely forgot about those.

My FE8 PME has tons of unbreakable personal weapons. The Binding Blade, a rapier, an ice tome, a bronze pen-sword, a brave-effect javelin, and a custom Killing Edge. There's also Orson's personal weapon which is so ridiculous. All have infinite durability, because otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Like seriously, has a legendary weapon ever been broken in fiction? Well, I guess there's Mjonir in the MCU, but the point is that breakable legendary weapons are rare in fiction. Heck, the only other series I can think of where legendary weapons could break is Elder Scrolls, which was ditched in Skyrim.

Why couldn't we have a system like FE4 or BotW, where once the legendary weapon breaks, it either has to be repaired or takes time to recharge?

[Flee Fleet!]

Falchion has infinite uses as mentioned before and the Judgral holy weapons have about 40 uses (and can be repaired too), at least.

 

The only reason I can think of as to why holy weapons have lower durability (or even durability at all) is because of them becoming weaker as years and generations pass (though this doesn't happen with the Falchion, iirc). Due to their old age they become more likely to break.

 

The gamplay reason is balancing so that the game doesn't become way easier than it should be, or at least that's what I think.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Flee Fleet!

[Interdimensional Observer]

In the context of FE6, the legendaries have such limited uses because of how early they come. Think Rutger and Dieck are amazing as is? Just imagine how much more they would be if they had an infinite uses 22 Mt sword after nine chapters into the game. 

In Shadow Dragon and New Mystery, you run into the issue of getting Parthia 6 and 8 chapters into the game respectively. Hauteclere comes in 10 and 8 respectively.

FE4- ah yes, the game that gives the legendaries infinite repairability, massive stat boosts, 30 Mt, and hands you in the 2nd Gen two of the three swords effortlessly, plus you'll likely have Yewfelle and if you choose to play things the right way, Forseti a few turns into Chapter 6. Not exactly balanced most would say even with the high repair costs.

 

If they're going to give you legendaries with infinite uses, they should make an effort to somehow balance them. Falchion save in FE1 is okay or good, but not great, as a weapon when not against dragons. PoR Ragnell comes very late so it isn't broken, RD Ragnell comes early enough that its infinite uses with Ike's great stats make it amazing even when considering the Ragnell is a worse Binding Blade statistically.

Solutions to balancing infinite-use legendaries could include:

1. They go the route of Awakening's Parallel/Exalted Falchion, where you have a Silver Sword/slightly stronger Silver Sword with command healing and wyrmslaying, but nothing too incredible. 
2. They follow in Fates's legendaries (excluding the Yato and the royal bros') and give them significant drawbacks that restrict their use. And also possibly limiting the classes that can use legendaries at all.
3. Making them finite uses but with a good deal of repairability outside of Hammerne. If balancing this purely with money isn't easy, an issue of FE4, then they could try making repairs require some special resource, like with the Champion weapons in Breath of the Wild. They have a great deal of durability, but need a Diamond for repairs.
4. Restrict all legendaries to certain characters and balance the power and effects of these weapons around the individual character's strengths and weaknesses.
5. Do something like Berwick Saga's ultimate magics: Pallas Serenia, Pallas Leia, Pallas Riana, and Starlight. Each of these has only 10 uses, which sounds very restrictive, but are balanced by the fact these spells regenerate 2 uses every time you move onto a new story chapter. The use count can't go above 10 though, so you're encouraged to pop a use or three in every chapter, and this is balanced by the uses not replenishing after side chapters.

[The Roger The Paladin]

Now this makes more sense than the accidental half-completed double-post. I personally like the idea of "breakable, but repairable" without hammerne.

21 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about Sieg the third, Leo's ecology textbook, and that renamed electrified sword I gave to Matt Mercer in Fallout 4. I completely forgot about those.

My FE8 PME has tons of unbreakable personal weapons. The Binding Blade, a rapier, an ice tome, a bronze pen-sword, a brave-effect javelin, and a custom Killing Edge. There's also Orson's personal weapon which is so ridiculous. All have infinite durability, because otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Like seriously, has a legendary weapon ever been broken in fiction? Well, I guess there's Mjonir in the MCU, but the point is that breakable legendary weapons are rare in fiction. Heck, the only other series I can think of where legendary weapons could break is Elder Scrolls, which was ditched in Skyrim.

Why couldn't we have a system like FE4 or BotW, where once the legendary weapon breaks, it either has to be repaired or takes time to recharge?

Hautclair, in the battle of Roland and Oliver. Mind you, it was hit with the unbreakable Durandel by Roland. Then there was Gram, the legendary sword wielded by Sigurd/Siegfried (the Norse hero of legend) and his father Sigmund before him (who died because it broke but it was reforged for Sigurd). Both cases being examples from actual legend.

[Paper Jam]

Narsil in "The Lord of the Rings" comes to my mind, although it was renamed Anduril when it was repaired.

Anyway, I think the weirdest thing about the legendary weapons is in the Elibe series, where no matter how many times Eliwood may have used Durandal or Hector Armads or Athos Forblaze or Aureola, they're in equally good repair when Roy finds them twenty years later.

[Dismissed]

14 minutes ago, Paper Jam said:

Narsil in "The Lord of the Rings" comes to my mind, although it was renamed Anduril when it was repaired.

Anyway, I think the weirdest thing about the legendary weapons is in the Elibe series, where no matter how many times Eliwood may have used Durandal or Hector Armads or Athos Forblaze or Aureola, they're in equally good repair when Roy finds them twenty years later.

They probably used Hammerne before sealing them away.

[Chocolate Kitty]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

In the context of FE6, the legendaries have such limited uses because of how early they come. Think Rutger and Dieck are amazing as is? Just imagine how much more they would be if they had an infinite uses 22 Mt sword after nine chapters into the game. 

ever heard of the ending winter

[DisobeyedCargo]

10 hours ago, Mad-manakete said:

Now this makes more sense than the accidental half-completed double-post. I personally like the idea of "breakable, but repairable" without hammerne.

Hautclair, in the battle of Roland and Oliver. Mind you, it was hit with the unbreakable Durandel by Roland. Then there was Gram, the legendary sword wielded by Sigurd/Siegfried (the Norse hero of legend) and his father Sigmund before him (who died because it broke but it was reforged for Sigurd). Both cases being examples from actual legend.

Yeah i clicked post on accident 

Genealogy would be. Good middle ground, easily reparable but breakable legendary weapons, but maybe not for unique proficient weapons, stuff like reginleif and wolf beil 

[illegal knight]

I think all of your ideas are valid basically according to the weapon's divinity, age, and lore. Including hammerne and repair feature in game.

We tries to take a middle ground for this. No need the blessing of Goddess Yune on late chapters for this problems. Just distinguish the weapons : divine weapons those able to used by any characters still breakable, but the prf divine weapons must be unbreakable. Non-divine prf weapons like Rapier doesn't count (still breakable). The several major characters beside the Lords, those usually members of royalties or depends on the scripts, may have their own prf divine weapons even it may heavily affects their alter-classes performances. Make those divine prf weapons becomes inventory-locked on the respective owners if necessary.

[SSbardock84]

Ah yeah, that really bothers me too. But it's part of what they tend to do. Stronger the weapon, the less durability it has. Does that logically make sense though? I mean, not really. But I can see why they do it. It still bothers me. There are some weapons I don't think should be breakable. Since I have a Minerva avatar I instantly thought of Hauteclere. That's a weapon that shouldn't be breakable. Along with Parthia, Mercurius, and Gradivus. Yeah, it's kind of dumb that those and others break.

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, SSbardock84 said:

Ah yeah, that really bothers me too. But it's part of what they tend to do. Stronger the weapon, the less durability it has. Does that logically make sense though? I mean, not really. But I can see why they do it. It still bothers me. There are some weapons I don't think should be breakable. Since I have a Minerva avatar I instantly thought of Hauteclere. That's a weapon that shouldn't be breakable. Along with Parthia, Mercurius, and Gradivus. Yeah, it's kind of dumb that those and others break.

The part that bothers me the most is that most of these weapons have lasted thousands of years stuck in a dank dark cave or otherwise bad conditions yet despite being found in literally perfect condition, if your not made of dragon fang you have 20 uses

 

 

[Griffinlwgameplayer]

I mean from a gameplay perspective it mainly makes sense that they would have limited durability, or come super late into the game (Ragnel from Path of Radiance comes to mind, since you get it soon before the boss fight with the Black Knight, which isn't far off from the end of the game) but from a story perspective the weapons should either be completely unbreakable, or last a very, very long time.

The holy weapons from 4, in particular, seem like they should have neverending durability considering they have lasted generations, but they are also able to be repaired by going to town and getting their blacksmith to repair it.

The legendary weapons in Blazing Blade also seem like they should last a very, very long time. But all of them have 20 uses, meaning they can be broken in as many as ten battles assuming all of them were double attacks. Which is quite pathetic to think about really. From a gameplay stance, it makes sense that Lyn's wouldn't be infinite given that it was given to her so early, and both Katti are said to not truly be legendary blades. But while the Mani Katti sorta makes sense, what with being sealed and all for a long time, how come the Sol Katti lasts a shorter amount of time? It's supposed to be the superior weapon but it lasts a shorter amount of attacks and is gifted to you at the final chapter where it makes sense for it to last forever.

Can we add dragon stones to the mix? Why do they break? According to the lore in some of the games, a dragon stone is the power of a dragon condensed into a small stone, allowing them to maintain human form, and still release their power by activating the stone. So.... if it breaks does that mean they lose all that power inside the stone and themselves? do they change back to full dragons until they make a new one or do they lose the power to become dragons?

Basically, durability doesn't make sense for stones, or legendary weapons

[Jotari]

I'd rather my legendary weapons be buff and brittle rather than sturdy but useless.

 

[ChiefStrudel]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'd rather my legendary weapons be buff and brittle rather than sturdy but useless.

 

I agree. Fire Emblem is easy enough as it is. I like the limited use of legendary weapons, it makes me really think about when I use them. Players hoarding them isn't the fault of the game. You should be forced to use them sparingly. If they're made indestructible, what is traded to keep from trivializing the game difficulty?

[Nowi's Husband]

I'm not a fan of durability in general, but especially so for the legendary weapons.  It was really crazy in SS, they legendary weapons had their own battle theme and everything and still broke quickly.  I think the RD system is an acceptable compromise, you still had to hoard them till the end but in the final battles they become unbreakable.  

[Blues LeSharpe]

I agree that legendary weapons should have infinite durability. When playing through Blazing Sword the first time I recognized that the story was building up to me collecting the legendary weapons and I naturally assumed they would be indestructible. I figured that, along with some advantage over a specific enemy, would be their main reasons to exist. I can understand some of the named weapons having limited durability but the ones that are legendary national treasures that have survived centuries shouldn't have the same weakness. I get that it's for balance, but as you said, if they're received near the end of the game there's especially no reason for it. Now that I think about it, if balance is the issue a new mechanic similar to the Master Sword in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild might work. Legendary weapons could be strong and unbreakable, but their effectiveness could go on a cooldown at some point to prevent them from being overused. On the other hand, there could also be a certain condition that needs to be met to utilize the weapon's full potential. I'm not wild about durability going away completely, but I think this would be a nice way to balance things.

[X-Naut]

I have more of a problem with how long I have to wait to get them most of the time than the weapons being breakable.

[Shadow Mir]

On 6/17/2018 at 9:45 AM, DisobeyedCargo said:

It took the entire fujin Yumi in conquest, a whole legendary weapon to repair it, so yeah that things breakable.

What about in Birthright? The Yato winds up getting broken by the final boss in that one too.

[DisobeyedCargo]

14 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What about in Birthright? The Yato winds up getting broken by the final boss in that one too.

I dunno

 

i think it just kinda magically repairs itself 

 

but still yato is breakable 

[Nora]

I'm honestly a bit mixed on Legendary Weapons being breakable.

When getting a Legendary Weapon early within the game, it makes sense on a balancing view point to have durability on the weapons, since it'd be super easy to have a powerful weapon early on with unlimited usage.  As for Legendary Weapons that are gained later within the game, it's kind of silly to have durability on the weapons, since they serve as a reward for making that fun into the game, only to have it break.  Easily the biggest offender is the Binding Blade, which is pretty much Roy's saving grace (unless you get really lucky with level ups), but it's 20 uses.

[Tetragrammaton]

I like breakable and repairable legendary weapons.

It's kind of like Superman and Green Lantern need recharge after a decisive battle.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Nora said:

I'm honestly a bit mixed on Legendary Weapons being breakable.

When getting a Legendary Weapon early within the game, it makes sense on a balancing view point to have durability on the weapons, since it'd be super easy to have a powerful weapon early on with unlimited usage.  As for Legendary Weapons that are gained later within the game, it's kind of silly to have durability on the weapons, since they serve as a reward for making that fun into the game, only to have it break.  Easily the biggest offender is the Binding Blade, which is pretty much Roy's saving grace (unless you get really lucky with level ups), but it's 20 uses.

Well the other option for Roy is to feed him a ridiculous number of those purchasable stat boosters. Which is more fun than it sounds, especially if you give Roy like 15 movement.