Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

[Athena_57]

@Bartozio

Could you answer this?

37 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Also, what do you think of Mackc, anything beyond null?

 

[Bartozio]

33 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Also, what do you think of Mackc, anything beyond null?

Not really I'm affraid. He's generally distant as a player and struggling with reads and he's been town every single game...

His read on Junk feels somewhat towny, because he could have just struck to his reasoning of an entrance being NAI, so it's needless association as scum.

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

Okay

##Vote: XnadrojX

Huh, remind me to ask things of people more often.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

His read on Junk feels somewhat towny, because he could have just struck to his reasoning of an entrance being NAI, so it's needless association as scum.

Disagree actually, I feel town!him wouldn't give a shit, bus scum!him would want to please me? I like the Junk choice though.

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Disagree actually, I feel town!him wouldn't give a shit, bus scum!him would want to please me? I like the Junk choice though.

Town him would also want to get the ball rolling, and it's not like there was anything better to read up on.

[Athena_57]

4 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Town him would also want to get the ball rolling, and it's not like there was anything better to read up on.

Eh, perhaps it's NAI. I don't give him townpoints for it though, do you think scum!him would just refuse there? 

[Rapier]

9 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Bit of a lazy entrance imo. There's tons of game-relevant stuff to talk about.

Like for example, why hasn't SB posted a shitpost? Is it to shield his mentee Bartozio from an untimely RVS death? Is this alignment indicative?

Mentors' posts are limited to relevant in-game stuff, and only rarely. The only mentor who posted before didn't even read the rules, which is why he shitposted.

Unvote

##Vote: athena

I don't like you setting up people as scummy through faulty reasoning!

9 hours ago, athena_57 said:

I'll gladly bring up topics.

 

Bartozio and I have been opposing alignments in all 3 games I've played in. Does this mean we have a higher or lower than random chance to roll opposing alignments?

Perhaps this happening 3 times indicates it isn't random, but rather a law of nature and thus it will happen again.

Or perhaps 4 is a large enough number we can reasonably expect the law of large numbers to kick in.

In other words, what is the correct incorrect way of applying probability theory? 

 

Don't say "Just random...", cause that's a cop out.

4 is death. Which is a number associated to those who bring death. Namely, scums who kill people each Night Phase. Sounds familiar? Yeah, calling it: Athena, Makaze and Bartozio as a scum family (look how Athena tried to set up Bartozio as opposite to his alignment and thus disassociate from him!)

 

4 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

Are we really arguing that the amount of shitposts a mentor does might be alignment indicative? Ah well have to start somewhere.

 

3 hours ago, Mackc2 said:

You are exactly right, I want the conversation to get started so I can make meaningful comments cause currently I don't see anything that I can analyse seriously 

You avoiding any effort in starting the conversation so you can make "meaningful comments" while shunning others' attempt to create conversations isn't really helpful either. You could've at least expanded on your reads about Athena's vote (which you addressed as "well it makes no sense", but you drew no reads from his action, you just went there, pointed that out and left).

51 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

He seemed to be getting actually annoyed and didn't bother hiding it. I'd expect newer scumplayers want to hide their emotions. Do you agree/disagree?

Hiding emotions is hard, especially so for newer scumplayers. Wouldn't annoyance be a sign of crumbling to pressure?

21 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Okay

##Vote: XnadrojX

Wait what, you agree with Bart's reasoning then? Your vote felt like a 180º on your town read that I wouldn't expect to be so sudden.

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Eh, perhaps it's NAI. I don't give him townpoints for it though, do you think scum!him would just refuse there? 

I can see it happen, yeah. It feels like a clumsy way to please you.

Tbf though, the reason I said I wasn't sure was because I felt your interpretation also made sense. Thinking about it more though, him being town makes more sense.

Basicly, P(Mack is town, felt your question of entrances was dumb, but looked into it more anyway and actually found something) > P(Mack is scum, ignored your question at first, but felt like he had to answer the second time so came up with a decent reason to ignore it, then read up and came up with a read based on it anyway) > significantly likely.

If that is actually readable.

[Athena_57]

9 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Wait what, you agree with Bart's reasoning then? Your vote felt like a 180º on your town read that I wouldn't expect to be so sudden.

[Athena_57]

3 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I can see it happen, yeah. It feels like a clumsy way to please you.

Tbf though, the reason I said I wasn't sure was because I felt your interpretation also made sense. Thinking about it more though, him being town makes more sense.

Basicly, P(Mack is town, felt your question of entrances was dumb, but looked into it more anyway and actually found something) > P(Mack is scum, ignored your question at first, but felt like he had to answer the second time so came up with a decent reason to ignore it, then read up and came up with a read based on it anyway) > significantly likely.

If that is actually readable.

Alrighty, gotcha. Don't necessarily agree, but I see your point.

[Mystic Arcanum]

A few things that stand out to me so far:

-Junk asking why there's no RVS vote from EvanManManMan but not asking about Fable's lack of RVS.

-Athena and Xnad’s entrances.

Xnad's feels off in the sense of his entrance post (at the bottom of page 2) feeling like forced casuality, and his comment to Athena here:

"Stating a fact isn't a cop out though.
 

Saying you have a higher than random chance to roll opposing alignments because you were rolling opposing alignments before is a logical fallacy.

Saying you have a lower than random chance to roll opposing alignments because you were rolling opposing alignments before is also logical fallacy.

The laws of probability says that each individual roll is independent of one another, what are you trying to pull here?

Also, you mentioned "a wealth of topics", this is just one topic and is pretty irrelevant to the game state on top of that."
feels disingenuous regardless of its accuracy. "What are you trying to pull here?" gives me mild shade-throwing vibes, as does your comment about how "this is just one topic and is pretty irrelevant to the game."

I like Athena much less though. I think she's trying way too hard to put forward "useful topics" and ask questions to look like she's scumhunting, but the questions themselves are things like:

"Like for example, why hasn't SB posted a shitpost? Is it to shield his mentee Bartozio from an untimely RVS death? Is this alignment indicative?"
Which is (1) a serious reach and (2) not alignment indicative even if sb is trying to shield his mentor. I also don't like your putting forth questions like this without offering any potential answers or your own thoughts on them.

His townread on Xnad also feels pockety, and I think he intended to use it to shut down the conversation with Xnad and dismiss his suspicions. When asked to elaborate on it by Bartozio he claims that the Xnad townread is because Xnad "wasn't hiding his annoyance" and that a "new scum player would hide their emotions." Neither Xnad nor anyone else in the game is a "newer player", and even if they were whether or not they were hiding their feelings would come down more to the player than their alignment-in fact Xnad doesn't even read to me as particularly annoyed in his response to you.

[Rapier]

@athena_57 You missed the point. You switched from a town read to a scum read right off the bat, and I don't really understand your reasoning process behind this change. Could you please explain what convinced you to switch?

 

[Mystic Arcanum]

@Rapier what are some examples of Athena trying to set up Bartozio as opposite to his alignment? I'm reading the interactions they have and finding it unlikely that a scum!Athena would so openly sheet their partner's vote.

[Mystic Arcanum]

Oh wait. Do you mean to say you think Athena's intentionally sheeping it for that purpose? 

If so, I'm not sure I agree that it would make them partners (nothing makes me think a scum!Athena would be any more likely to do it to town!Bartizio as opposed to scum!Bartozio).

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Rapier said:

@athena_57 You missed the point. You switched from a town read to a scum read right off the bat, and I don't really understand your reasoning process behind this change. Could you please explain what convinced you to switch?

 

Whilst Im not covinced by the "unwilling to participate in conv"-point, I missed the fact that he dropped the conversation despite shading me before.

[Rapier]

Just now, Fenrir Aesir said:

@Rapier what are some examples of Athena trying to set up Bartozio as opposite to his alignment? I'm reading the interactions they have and finding it unlikely that a scum!Athena would so openly sheet their partner's vote.

My first two quotes on Athena were joke votes made to draw reactions from him (and thus, that "he's trying to set Bartozio as opposite to his alignment" point wasn't serious), but since you asked:

Bartozio and I have been opposing alignments in all 3 games I've played in. Does this mean we have a higher or lower than random chance to roll opposing alignments?

This is what he said.

[Athena_57]

2 hours ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

I like Athena much less though. I think she's trying way too hard to put forward "useful topics" and ask questions to look like she's scumhunting, but the questions themselves are things like:

"Like for example, why hasn't SB posted a shitpost? Is it to shield his mentee Bartozio from an untimely RVS death? Is this alignment indicative?"
Which is (1) a serious reach and (2) not alignment indicative even if sb is trying to shield his mentor. I also don't like your putting forth questions like this without offering any potential answers or your own thoughts on them.

Why did you grab an RVS joke to prove my questions are bad, and not an actual question, like the ones I asked Mackc/Bartozio?

Do you think it's a bad thing to be reaching during RVS?

[Junk]

I missed fable not doing rvs because I saw evanman's post and went back to look to see if he had voted rvs. I actually feel suspicious about his comment now though because it feels like it's trying to come off as somewhat confused despite the fact that the comment was 2 pages into the game. Basically it comes off as fake to me.

I disagree with bart on xnadroj. I don't really see how he was trying to drop the conversation? Nadroj responds to athena and then athena states that it was a joke. What is he supposed to do there? I don't feel like nadroj is trying to avoid interaction in general because athena soon makes a new post and nadroj asks some question to athena. This applies to athena's vote as well, even if athena adds that nadroj tried to throw shade on him but then dropped the convo, I don't get how you can really respond to a response that is so minimal. IN FACT, I actually feel like athena dropped the conversation because his response of "it was a joke" basically dismisses all of what nadroj said. I do think that athena is telling the truth about joking but I would have preferred to see a bit more addressing what nadroj actually said rather than "he's town". I can't find scum intent in bart's vote so it doesn't bother me too much but athena's vote does bother me a little bit because it feels hypocritical to say that nadroj dropped the convo when athena's response was so minimal.

I do think fenrir raises an interesting point about athena's townread on nadroj as well. 

Rapier's logic on athena comes off as a little reachy to me but I think being reachy is fine ed 1 cuz we don't have much to go off of.

I think bart's stance on mack is good. As for mack's read on me idk how not making a joke is alignment indicative and uh as for my question being "forced" idk it's not forced. The quality of the questions won't be the best since it was page 2 but I figured it was worth asking anyway.

so as of right now it goes athena>evanman cuz he's made like 1 post on page 2

##unvote

##vote athena

[Athena_57]

7 minutes ago, Junk said:

so as of right now it goes athena>evanman cuz he's made like 1 post on page 2

Why Evan over Satsuma/Makaze/Zeonth who all have like 1 post? Why over Fable who you appear to scumread?

[Junk]

because their posts aren't suspicious to me? and why am i scumreading fable?

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Junk said:

because their posts aren't suspicious to me? and why am i scumreading fable?

 

13 minutes ago, Junk said:

I missed fable not doing rvs because I saw evanman's post and went back to look to see if he had voted rvs. I actually feel suspicious about his comment now though because it feels like it's trying to come off as somewhat confused despite the fact that the comment was 2 pages into the game. Basically it comes off as fake to me.

^^^^

[Junk]

that was in reference to evaman sorry.

[Athena_57]

Or is that referring to Evan? My bad in that case.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Junk said:

that was in reference to evaman sorry.

Sniped. Okay, that makes sense, never mind then.

[Athena_57]

3 hours ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

His townread on Xnad also feels pockety, and I think he intended to use it to shut down the conversation with Xnad and dismiss his suspicions. 

 

16 minutes ago, Junk said:

I do think fenrir raises an interesting point about athena's townread on nadroj as well. 

It doesn't make sense for scum!me to pocket him, only to vote him within the same page without awaiting a reply.

Also, there were no suspicions in the first place.

[Makaze]

Fable and Evan are scum.

I am unmoved on this point.

Please sheep my vote (or consolidate on Evan).