Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

[Makaze]

21 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

 

I don't think this is entirely fair, because you came in halfway through the game, so you had a bigger picture then just his early game. If Fable is the type of player who needs a while to get going (which he clearly was in that game), that kind of thing really matters.

Sorry, but I'm not sheeping you on just a gutread. I'm willing to consolidate onto Fable if he keeps this unproductiveness up though.

I suppose you could be right if I had initial pings early in his ISO and then changed my mind that game, but I didn't get any tonally off pings from him at all.

Context and better tonal posts are not going to change whether the tone is genuine in the past or not.

[XnadrojX]

27 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

 

He could have tried deriving Athena's alligance from it? He could have tried starting an rvs wagon on me for the whole SB not shitposting thing? There were several things he could have done to move the game forward with it, yet he didn't.

I mean, Xnad was reacting seriously to obvious joke questions. The only other thing Athena could have done imo was continuing the joke, but I don't think that would have done anything either. I feel like at the end of their conversation, Athena walked away with a failed attempt to start anything, but at least a read on Xnad. Xnad got... nothing. No attempt to start anything, no read on Athena, nothing. In this situation, I'd expect Xnad to want more out of the conversation, while Athena got basicly all he was likely gonna get.

I guess that's something. Although it became nothing at the end of the conversation, so...

Uhm, no? All you did in that conversation was react with: this question is dumb. This question is dumber. Why are you being dumb? (in rvs)

That doesn't count as keeping an interaction going to me. Heck, if you were suspicious of Athena when you asked that "What are you trying to pull?", why didn't you vote him? Even if he was joking, why not continue with asking him why he was asking you all those question, since it doesn't seem like you were townreading him for the effort? I'm having trouble seeing this lack of intrest come from someone trying to solve the game.

Think this is a good point to correct my vote:

##Vote: @XnadrojX

Showing emotion == having said emotion? We analyzed the same thing, but we had different reasons for our conclusions.

Was this about me or Athena?

Does this count as trowing shade yet?

Indeed, it wasn't a normal flow of thinking. It was the amazing thinking of a proffesional internet detective with a degree in mathematics! Yes, yes, thank you, you are all lucky to have me!

In all seriousness though, I don't think my flow of thinking was that weird. Also, what do you think scum!me would be trying to pull here then? One more point for not putting in effort to solve the game I guess.
.

 

It wasn't obvious to me, it's really easy for you to say that as you superimpose your thoughts onto me. Yes I was suspicious. I don't always need my vote on someone to probe them. And regardless if my suspicion was fake or not, it doesn't change any point in your argument. I can't be bothered to pull up quotes for what's obviously you discrediting me, I responded their questions not knowing they were apparently "jokes", and asked why would they do what they were doing ("What are you trying to pull here?"). I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth. Apologies if you've simply misread, but I clearly recall athena_57 responding to my post (Which, if you recall, has a question about their intentions in it) with a "It's a joke". I'm having trouble seeing how you arrived at the mislead conclusions that you did. 

So athena_57 "townread" me for "showing annoyance"... you disagreed and said I was scum for "having annoyance"... but you said their point on me was valid because it's okay to "townread" people for "showing annoyance" but not "having annoyance"? Whaaat? This explains nothing. How would your "different reasons" to analyzing the exact same thing not contradict?

It was to athena_57.

About as much as this is right now (in terms of shade-throwing done)

Well I think your flow of thinking was weird. For one, "I'm scum for being annoyed, but your reasons (I'm town for showing annoyance) are good enough to not suspect you". For two, I asked a question, an obvious question with a question mark mind you, and apparently I'm the one who wanted to break off communication. I can find even more of these "leaps of logics" in your new post too. Like, how do you interpret "What are you trying to pull here?" as "Why are you being dumb?", or "I'm not putting effort to solve the game" when you're the one insisting on using flawed logic to attack me.

 

So let's say you're right about me not wanting to start anything out of the athena_57 thing, with the "new" information that I didn't know it was a joke. I asked a question, and athena_57 could do one of 2 things, namely, continue the joke, which does nothing, or drop the joke, which frees up clutter and allows game-related discussion to continue. Your posts are large but your whole case on me is based off your (deliberate or otherwise) misinterpretation of my post.

What does scum!you gain from doing this? Nothing. What does town!you lose from doing this? Many, many things. I can't see why you do this as scum, if you want me to be honest. But I can see many reasons why you wouldn't do this as town, and the things you lose doing this as town hurts much more than what you lose by doing this as scum. 

[Makaze]

32 minutes ago, Fable said:

Interesting that mak doesn't add the asterisk that last game was the only game he's ever played with me. 

I don't think it's necessary to undercut my alarm bells and instincts.

[XnadrojX]

Which brings us back to the original point, how was I, in any way, trying to break off interaction? What flow of thinking would you be in where you interpret "What are trying to pull here?", a perfectly legitimate question, as "Why are you being dumb?" as an attempt to cut off discussion?

 

And there's more logic that doesn't make sense. If athena_57 hopes to gain something out of it, they'd have more things to probe at. But they were joking around, and that's a form of interaction too. You're effectively telling me I'm scum for not being able to expand a joke into a meaningful, alignment-indicative conversation, when there was literally nothing to talk about at that point of the game.

 

[XnadrojX]

Actually, thinking about it, I can think of a reason you'd do all this as scum. It's easy towncred for creating a "talking point" of sorts, and your faulty logic doesn't involve any obvious fallacies and simply relies on a blatant misrepresentation of me. It's an easy way to push someone without needing to wait for someone to screw up. 

And now I'm trying to think of why you'd do this as Town, and I come at 2 conclusions. 1. You're trying to pressure me, which obviously isn't the case as you've announced your solidified scumread on me, and 2. You legitimately scumread me, which I don't see happening if you're Town given your entire reasoning for scumreading me is based off bad logic, which I'm very sure in my current understanding of the game that Town would not want to touch.

So pray tell, what town motive can you have in misrepresenting me, not just once, but continuously after I've made my defense, and push me based on that?

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

20 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

If you were to assume I'm town, who of the people who've voted me is the most suspicious to you?

I think they raised fair points on you, actually, aside from certain misunderstandings.

18 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Oh, also, since you asked me, how do you feel about Makaze?

I'm not too interested in his trains when they're gut or have no reasoning, but he's working his way I guess. Null.

13 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

@Satsuma You also mentioned you liked xnadrojx as a backup / info lynch, what info would you get from a flip?

It would give the pocket theory a bit more credence if Xnad flipped Town, for one.

[Athena_57]

4 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I think they raised fair points on you, actually, aside from certain misunderstandings.

 

It would give the pocket theory a bit more credence if Xnad flipped Town, for one.

Which points do you feel are still valid?

Like I said, it doesn't make sense for pocketing scum!me to vote him  almost immediately after the pocket attempt.

[Athena_57]

And how do you feel about nadroj besides feeling they're a good info lynch? Does their Bartozio case push you either way?

[Makaze]

Xnadroj is town. Don't think I said anything about them yet.

[Bartozio]

39 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

This feels contradictory? You're not surprised he needs a while to get going, yet are wiling to consolidate on him for unproductiveness?

He's a slow starter, so I'm willing to give him time to get going. This is why I said if he continues, instead of me outright suspecting him now.

There's a limit to how much time I'm willing to give him though, and that limit is less then a full day phase.

17 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I suppose you could be right if I had initial pings early in his ISO and then changed my mind that game, but I didn't get any tonally off pings from him at all.

Context and better tonal posts are not going to change whether the tone is genuine in the past or not.

Fair. It doesn't strike me as completely different, but tone is generally not something I'm great at remembering. I'll see if I have time to reread some of his ED1 posts that game.

24 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

It wasn't obvious to me, it's really easy for you to say that as you superimpose your thoughts onto me. Yes I was suspicious. I don't always need my vote on someone to probe them. And regardless if my suspicion was fake or not, it doesn't change any point in your argument. I can't be bothered to pull up quotes for what's obviously you discrediting me, I responded their questions not knowing they were apparently "jokes", and asked why would they do what they were doing ("What are you trying to pull here?"). I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth.

Apologies if you've simply misread, but I clearly recall athena_57 responding to my post (Which, if you recall, has a question about their intentions in it) with a "It's a joke". I'm having trouble seeing how you arrived at the mislead conclusions that you did. 

If you (or other people) read my post as me saying you actually said Athena was being dumb (etc.), then I apologize, that was not my intent. I did actually interpred it as you reacting only to his factual questions, and not his intent (getting an rvs wagon going, or just any kind of thing to move the game out of rvs). Maybe I'm being dumb and it really wasn't that obvious and maybe we really have completely different ways of approuching rvs. I still find it an odd interaction from your part, especially since you seemed (from my PoV) fine with it ending without you having gained anything from it, not even a good read on Athena.

Yes, you had some suspision on him halfway through, and yes you pushed that. And yes, I read his response of "Joking". But... isn't that a pretty easy answer? Why did that stop all your suspision? And if it did, doesn't that mean you ended with no read on him? Why didn't you try to analyze whether jokingly approuching you was more likely to come from town or scum Athena?

24 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

So athena_57 "townread" me for "showing annoyance"... you disagreed and said I was scum for "having annoyance"... but you said their point on me was valid because it's okay to "townread" people for "showing annoyance" but not "having annoyance"? Whaaat? This explains nothing. How would your "different reasons" to analyzing the exact same thing not contradict?

He townread you for showing emotion at all, and didn't delve too much into why you would have those emotions in the first place. His point was valid in the sense that I can see him reaching that conclusion, even if I don't agree with it.

24 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

It was to athena_57.

About as much as this is right now (in terms of shade-throwing done)

I'm actually saying I think your scum, for what that's worth.

24 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

Well I think your flow of thinking was weird. For one, "I'm scum for being annoyed, but your reasons (I'm town for showing annoyance) are good enough to not suspect you". For two, I asked a question, an obvious question with a question mark mind you, and apparently I'm the one who wanted to break off communication.

I explained one. for two: reacting seriously to jokes like this is a pretty good way to stop them from continuing. A rvs wagon on me isn't going to start when you already explained why all of his reasons are reaching. If you actually didn't get he was joking, you didn't break of the interaction, sure.

24 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

I can find even more of these "leaps of logics" in your new post too. Like, how do you interpret "What are you trying to pull here?" as "Why are you being dumb?", or "I'm not putting effort to solve the game" when you're the one insisting on using flawed logic to attack me.

Considering you said that after (in my interpretation, annoyed) explaining why all of his topics were super reaching, I don't think it's such a weirt interpretation.

I do not consider my logic flawed, so even if it is flawed in your opinion, it doesn't make my comments a leap? Since I'm the one making them?

24 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

So let's say you're right about me not wanting to start anything out of the athena_57 thing, with the "new" information that I didn't know it was a joke. I asked a question, and athena_57 could do one of 2 things, namely, continue the joke, which does nothing, or drop the joke, which frees up clutter and allows game-related discussion to continue. Your posts are large but your whole case on me is based off your (deliberate or otherwise) misinterpretation of my post.

What does scum!you gain from doing this? Nothing. What does town!you lose from doing this? Many, many things. I can't see why you do this as scum, if you want me to be honest. But I can see many reasons why you wouldn't do this as town, and the things you lose doing this as town hurts much more than what you lose by doing this as scum. 

 

19 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

Which brings us back to the original point, how was I, in any way, trying to break off interaction? What flow of thinking would you be in where you interpret "What are trying to pull here?", a perfectly legitimate question, as "Why are you being dumb?" as an attempt to cut off discussion?

I feel like I explained this above, but let me know if you think I didn't.

19 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

And there's more logic that doesn't make sense. If athena_57 hopes to gain something out of it, they'd have more things to probe at. But they were joking around, and that's a form of interaction too. You're effectively telling me I'm scum for not being able to expand a joke into a meaningful, alignment-indicative conversation, when there was literally nothing to talk about at that point of the game.

He walked away with a read on you though.

I think I already said this before, but you could have easily sheeped his logic and voted me for SB not shitposting. Or ask why he isn't voting me at putting his money where his mouth is.

Or just vote him for only coming up with reaching reasons to vote someone. Or talk about people entering the thread without voting, like he and Mack did later on. Any of these would have moved the thread along more then what you did.

14 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

Actually, thinking about it, I can think of a reason you'd do all this as scum. It's easy towncred for creating a "talking point" of sorts, and your faulty logic doesn't involve any obvious fallacies and simply relies on a blatant misrepresentation of me. It's an easy way to push someone without needing to wait for someone to screw up. 

...Apart from the fact that I need a lot of "leaps in logic"....which clearly aren't fallacies...

14 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

And now I'm trying to think of why you'd do this as Town, and I come at 2 conclusions. 1. You're trying to pressure me, which obviously isn't the case as you've announced your solidified scumread on me, and 2. You legitimately scumread me, which I don't see happening if you're Town given your entire reasoning for scumreading me is based off bad logic, which I'm very sure in my current understanding of the game that Town would not want to touch.

 

14 minutes ago, XnadrojX said:

So pray tell, what town motive can you have in misrepresenting me, not just once, but continuously after I've made my defense, and push me based on that?

Actually believing said misrepresentation? Boring story, I know.

[Makaze]

3 hours ago, athena_57 said:

This feels contradictory? You're not surprised he needs a while to get going, yet are wiling to consolidate on him for unproductiveness?

Noting that this is a misrepresentation and that the answer simply restated the original post.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Noting that this is a misrepresentation and that the answer simply restated the original post.

Why would I phrase an intentional misrep as a question?

[Makaze]

4 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Why would I phrase an intentional misrep as a question?

Why would you phrase an intentional misrep at all? Bad question.

Why did you phrase an intentional misrep as a question? You will deny it was intentional, but I don't believe that. If you have a town reason, I'm open to hearing it.

[Rapier]

Ok so I got to read the topic again and I noticed a few things I skimmed over on my first time.

I’m reading Athena and XnadrojX’s interactions as the latter being blatantly oblivious to the former’s jokes and taking them seriously. I don’t think he is avoiding discussion because he bothered to answer Athena and even offered himself to comment on what he thought were “tons of game-relevant stuff to talk about”.

To be honest, page 3 could be summarized as “Athena is trying to get reads on others by joking around and people are trying to answer him seriously”. On retrospect, I like his effort on getting out of RVS and trying to promote discussions within the game, despite the lack of game-relevant content at that time. He also took the time to scumhunt before anyone else did and got a townread out of XsomethingX.

I still don’t agree with his logic on some reads/votes he made, though, such as his vote on Mack simply because he didn’t answer his inquiry in the 20 minutes timespan between his question and his vote. Expecting someone to answer you asap and blaming them for not doing so is bad logic, especially when you only give them 20 minutes to reply. I also don’t like how he gave XsomethingX a townread, then sometime later said he said he doesn’t give him townpoints for his previous behavior (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5243704 ) (that warranted a townread before), then sheeps Bartozio’s vote on the aforementioned player through a sudden 180º turn on his previous townread.

Actually, if I could summarize Bart and Athena’s interactions on page 3 and 4, they’ve been going back and forth questioning each other’s logic, but then conceding on each other’s points and ultimately forming a two people wagon on XsomethingX. Their interaction felt like a subtle attempt at buddying to me.

Speaking of XsomethingX, he seemed kind of defensive when Athena questioned him. I agree with Fenrir Aesir’s post where he finds odd that the former answered the later with “what are you trying to pull here?”. I don’t really like this reaction.

 

Honorable mentions:

Fable (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5243531) and Makaze are players who I can think of who only dropped in the thread for RVS styled shitposting even when there were discussions and votes happening. Ok, I need to check this out for pages 5 and further, but I’ll stop here because thinking is hard.

[Athena_57]

3 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Why would you phrase an intentional misrep at all? Bad question.

Why did you phrase an intentional misrep as a question? You will deny it was intentional, but I don't believe that. If you have a town reason, I'm open to hearing it.

I wanted to affirm whether he actually meant what he clarified in his second post. Had I asked "Do you mean until later on this phase?" he'd just say "yes" even if that weren't his original meaning.

[Makaze]

6 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Ok so I got to read the topic again and I noticed a few things I skimmed over on my first time.

 

I’m reading Athena and XnadrojX’s interactions as the latter being blatantly oblivious to the former’s jokes and taking them seriously. I don’t think he is avoiding discussion because he bothered to answer Athena and even offered himself to comment on what he thought were “tons of game-relevant stuff to talk about”.

 

To be honest, page 3 could be summarized as “Athena is trying to get reads on others by joking around and people are trying to answer him seriously”. On retrospect, I like his effort on getting out of RVS and trying to promote discussions within the game, despite the lack of game-relevant content at that time. He also took the time to scumhunt before anyone else did and got a townread out of XsomethingX.

 

I still don’t agree with his logic on some reads/votes he made, though, such as his vote on Mack simply because he didn’t answer his inquiry in the 20 minutes timespan between his question and his vote. Expecting someone to answer you asap and blaming them for not doing so is bad logic, especially when you only give them 20 minutes to reply. I also don’t like how he gave XsomethingX a townread, then sometime later said he said he doesn’t give him townpoints for his previous behavior (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5243704 ) (that warranted a townread before), then sheeps Bartozio’s vote on the aforementioned player through a sudden 180º turn on his previous townread.

 

Actually, if I could summarize Bart and Athena’s interactions on page 3 and 4, they’ve been going back and forth questioning each other’s logic, but then conceding on each other’s points and ultimately forming a two people wagon on XsomethingX. Their interaction felt like a subtle attempt at buddying to me.

 

Speaking of XsomethingX, he seemed kind of defensive when Athena questioned him. I agree with Fenrir Aesir’s post where he finds odd that the former answered the later with “what are you trying to pull here?”. I don’t really like this reaction.

 

 

 

Honorable mentions:

 

Fable (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5243531) and Makaze are players who I can think of who only dropped in the thread for RVS styled shitposting even when there were discussions and votes happening. Ok, I need to check this out for pages 5 and further, but I’ll stop here because thinking is hard.

 

I think you have misread my intentions if you think my votes were random. I did post a meme but I am serious about my reads.

[Makaze]

5 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

I wanted to affirm whether he actually meant what he clarified in his second post. Had I asked "Do you mean until later on this phase?" he'd just say "yes" even if that weren't his original meaning.

Acceptable.

[Athena_57]

10 minutes ago, Rapier said:

I still don’t agree with his logic on some reads/votes he made, though, such as his vote on Mack simply because he didn’t answer his inquiry in the 20 minutes timespan between his question and his vote. Expecting someone to answer you asap and blaming them for not doing so is bad logic, especially when you only give them 20 minutes to reply. I also don’t like how he gave XsomethingX a townread, then sometime later said he said he doesn’t give him townpoints for his previous behavior (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5243704 ) (that warranted a townread before), then sheeps Bartozio’s vote on the aforementioned player through a sudden 180º turn on his previous townread.

 

Actually, if I could summarize Bart and Athena’s interactions on page 3 and 4, they’ve been going back and forth questioning each other’s logic, but then conceding on each other’s points and ultimately forming a two people wagon on XsomethingX. Their interaction felt like a subtle attempt at buddying to me.

You may not have gotten to my post on this yet, but I never scumread nadroj. I saw Bart's vote as an opportunity to start a 2-man wagon, which applies a lot more pressure than a two separate votes.

[Athena_57]

I'm not moving my vote there yet since he's probably sleeping at the moment and I would still like Fenrir to come back, but Satsuma for me is a scumread on par with Fenrir.

Whilst his shading is probably NAI, it's still not something I want scum!him to get away with. His responses to me were dissatisfactory and did not seem aimed at either having a conversation or moving the game forward. I'm their biggest scumread, yet they don't have anything to say on me besides saying there were good points made against me. I've replied to most of these points already and am awaiting replies from the people who've made them, if he agrees with these points he should be able to answer these questions himself.

Overall seems uninterested in gamesolving and appears to be answering my questions out of necessity.

Additionally, I'm probably biased here, but I'm still annoyed by his meta post on me. When told by me this was bullcrap and confronted by Junk on his not backing this up with a vote, his reply was:

10 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I just found the Athena thing kinda funny, and apparently I didn't remember it 100% accurately.

He just shaded me for no real reason, gets called out and basically says "lol, whoops"

Finally, I'm bothered that they mentioned nadroj was a good info lynch but never bothered to look into his content.

[Makaze]

6 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

I'm not moving my vote there yet since he's probably sleeping at the moment and I would still like Fenrir to come back, but Satsuma for me is a scumread on par with Fenrir.

Whilst his shading is probably NAI, it's still not something I want scum!him to get away with. His responses to me were dissatisfactory and did not seem aimed at either having a conversation or moving the game forward. I'm their biggest scumread, yet they don't have anything to say on me besides saying there were good points made against me. I've replied to most of these points already and am awaiting replies from the people who've made them, if he agrees with these points he should be able to answer these questions himself.

Overall seems uninterested in gamesolving and appears to be answering my questions out of necessity.

Additionally, I'm probably biased here, but I'm still annoyed by his meta post on me. When told by me this was bullcrap and confronted by Junk on his not backing this up with a vote, his reply was:

He just shaded me for no real reason, gets called out and basically says "lol, whoops"

Finally, I'm bothered that they mentioned nadroj was a good info lynch but never bothered to look into his content.

I actually like that case.

[Fable]

[Rapier]

2 hours ago, athena_57 said:

You may not have gotten to my post on this yet, but I never scumread nadroj. I saw Bart's vote as an opportunity to start a 2-man wagon, which applies a lot more pressure than a two separate votes.

Wait, so... uh, why did you vote someone you had no scumread on? That makes no sense.

Also, @Fenrir Aesir, did I answer your question wrt AIs?

 

-------------

Honestly, what the hell was page 5? EvanMan³’s posts made no sense at all and he dropped a vote on me out of nowhere. I don’t even know if I should ask him about it because it feels like lazy trolling. I sheep Fable hard about this thread making my head hurt.

I’m not liking Makaze’s interactions with Mack. The former did give me lazy vibes before when he made a RVS-worthy post on page 4, when we finally got out of RVS, and it wasn’t a strong indicative of alignment IMO, but later on he spends two pages in a back-and-forth with Mack and…. Doesn’t get anywhere with his line of questioning. This is the pinnacle of his justification for questioning Mack. I still don’t get where he wanted to get at or what his interactions with Mack provided to him reads-wise. How is determining whether Mack is being  intentionally lazy provide any alignment tell? How does it help scumhunting for Town in general?

@Fable

snips at Mack (and, to be fair, at a bunch of other players too, but this is the closest to him outing a read that I got back then) but I don’t see him pushing the later for it, nor pursuing his reads in any manner. He also accused Makaze of pointing others as wolf randomly but never pushed a case on him for it. Sometimes he chimes in to post something snarky that is not related to the game (or, at least, doesn’t bring anything concrete to the table for us to discuss), but that’s it. I’d like to see a more active stance from him, at the very least. No, don’t tell me  you got no reads because your snips show you do have opinions.

 

@Mackc2

if you "wanted to vote someone other than Evan", why did you spend so much time voting him instead of going for the person you claim you wanted to vote? Why did Makaze have to press you for you to switch, and why did you feel like switching at that specific time? I’d also like you to elaborate on how it makes Fenrir Aesir scummy in your opinion.

@RADicate

how is Athena switching his vote later on an indicative that he “did not want to pocket xskrawkcabx” (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5244494)? If anything, from what we can draw from the chronology of events, what made Athena go back and vote him was Bart’s later interactions and ultimately agreeing with the logic that he presented for Jordan to be scum. Thus, it is entirely possible that Athena wanted to pocket him then, but chose otherwise when there was a change of plans.

My opinion is similar enough to Fenrir’s. When Jordan asked Athena where he wanted to get at with his line of reasoning, he simply replied to “ok, you read as town”, which is not a proper reply about his intentions. He dismissed him far too quickly, which was picked on by Bart later, which made Athena go back to Jordan and decide to sheep Bart into voting him. What Junk said is true, his approaches toward other members ultimately got nowhere and he had to be pressed by Bart to rethink about xdude and vote him again, for example.

Speaking of @Junk, what do you plan to achieve by voting Ewan? I mean, there’s much more content available from other players, which you have been addressing, whereas Ewan seems to be trolling around at best. I don’t really see how voting him is constructive.

Ah, guess what, I’ll go eat something then probably play Mario Party and hope I’ll be there before D1 ends (I stopped on page 8).

RADicate, Junk and Fenrir are probably Town.

[Rapier]

@Junk, sorry, I failed hard at bbcoding when I tried to mention you in the aforementioned post.

[Fable]

RAD

Rapier/Mack/Athena/Bomb Moss 

Fenrir/Zeo/Junk/Bart/Satsuma

Makaze/Evan

I don't know how I feel about the fact that my top wolf read is shading my other wolf read lol. 

[RADicate]

3 minutes ago, Fable said:

RAD

Rapier/Mack/Athena/Bomb Moss 

Fenrir/Zeo/Junk/Bart/Satsuma

Makaze/Evan

I don't know how I feel about the fact that my top wolf read is shading my other wolf read lol. 

I do hope I get more than this coming from your slot today. With the epic ITS TIME and the tidal wave crashing NGL i was hyped for a bit more.