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Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER


Iris
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2 minutes ago, RADicate said:

Apologies if i was unclear in my post earlier (the one where i voted you initially). I'll lay it out for you what i was trying to say. At least in part your read on Athena was based on the fact that you believe they may have attempted to pocket Jordan. Unfortunately that line of thinking doesnt make sense if Athena flips their read on jordan and votes them a couple posts later. I dont get how that line of thinking still applied after Athena voted jordan post:initial TR. Thus your initial arguement fmpov was flawed as you ignored a vital piece of evidence. That wasnt me saying "Athena is town for voting xnad" but me saying "There was a hole in one of your initial arguements that you seemingly willfully overlooked". Granted given your confused reaction and me having to spell this out; im now more inclined to say that you genuinely didnt put 2 and 2 together there as opposed to my initial outlook on the situation. 

On a related not @Mackc2 , considering the fact that you agreed with my initial anaylsis and sheeped my reasoning onto fenrir; do his previous two most recent posts change your prospective on the situation at all? If so how?

RAD is town.

For @Fenrir Aesir in case it's STILL not clear: He's saying it makes no sense for athena to be trying to pocket someone by voting for them. Whether the vote is town clearing or not isn't the issue: Your STATED REASON for the scum read was a contradiction of the facts.

In other words, even if he believes you made a mistake, he'd like to know what your actual reasons are, in light of that fact.

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2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Not sure if mentioning your salt or someone else's.

Me? No, I don't care about this game yet. 

But most people lose their minds when they hear that unlike most people I don't jump at the first post I see and try to divine some great meaning from it.. 

I'm use to it though, not the first time and I'm sure won't be the last. 

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Just now, Fable said:

Me? No, I don't care about this game yet. 

But most people lose their minds when they hear that unlike most people I don't jump at the first post I see and try to divine some great meaning from it.. 

I'm use to it though, not the first time and I'm sure won't be the last. 

I think we should lynch him. I am not kidding.

Hoping people don't just ignore our exchange as a meaningless thunderdome.

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1 minute ago, Makaze said:

I think we should lynch him. I am not kidding.

Hoping people don't just ignore our exchange as a meaningless thunderdome.

Where's the thunderdome? 

I'm here meming and you're doing.....something.....I don't actually know what.

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Just now, Fable said:

Where's the thunderdome? 

I'm here meming and you're doing.....something.....I don't actually know what.

People will perceive it as such as consider both of our posts NAI when concerned with each other.

I don't want that to happen.

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2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I think we should lynch him. I am not kidding.

Hoping people don't just ignore our exchange as a meaningless thunderdome.

If things dont improve with him late D1 (since he said first half of D1 is zzzs for him) i'll happily sheep you. For now though.....

##Vote @SatsumaFSoysoy

What do you think about things; since your hanging out? 

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I'll humor the lunacy for a second though. 

Mak you haven't actually provided any reasons, you've just said "lynch Fable" over and over like that's suppose to mean something. I asked earlier about it and you ignored me, RAD asked and you ignored him. This doesn't sound like someone trying to discern an alignment it sounds like someone trying to force a lynch through saying "No but trust me though". 

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Not quite on board with a Fable lynch. I don't see the point when he's only interacted with Makaze and no one else. I'd rather lynch someone else like Xnad for D1, since that'll give us an idea about Athena, Bart and Fenrir.

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@RADicate I agree with their first point that changing his vote doesn't come up as a towntell however I am unconvinced by his confusion about your argument, and also while it isn't a town tell Athena changing vote still goes against the pocketing theory and they didn't directly Address that. 

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Votals (they're probably right):

Makaze (2): Rapier, Zeonth
Fenrir (2): XnadrojX, Mackc2
Fable (1): Makaze
RAD (1): Satsuma
XnadrojX (1): athena
athena (3): Rapier, Junk, Fenrir
Rapier (1): Evan
Satsuma (1): RAD

Reminder to do your vote formatting as is done here and stuff. Though it seems like people are doing this anyway, Iris just wanted to remind everyone mostly. https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/83798-training-mafia-30-interested-new-players-read-first-post-day-1/&do=findComment&comment=5244142

 

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hm yeah radicate's (and i guess athena's own) logic makes sense. Can't believe I missed that. Don't blame fenrir for it since I missed that as well. Still bothered by his vote on nadraj for reasons previously stated tho. @athena_57 I was referencing the part of fenrir's read which stated that your townread on nadraj felt like an attempt to get him to dismiss his suspicion on you through buddying. I felt further convinced because you never actually bothered to give a reason until later so it felt like the read was kind of just thrown out there. Although you're right that it doesn't make sense for you to try to buddy with nadraj and then suddenly try to confront him unless you somehow saw buddying with bart more advantageous but I have no evidence to support that. 

Evan seems to make a random vote on rapier and then misreps my argument. Also why'd he vote rapier when he said that he liked the athena vote on me? PRESSURE TIME

##unvote

##vote @EvanManManMan

Athena is still number 2 cuz of the nadraj vote but I want evan to post more because as of right now his vote makes no sense, his misrepped my argument and also his post on pg2 came off as fake.

As for makaze vs fable

Makaze is idk, in the last game i played he was super confident. He seems to be the same this game. It's hard to differentiate how they would act as scum vs town to me. they are null for reasons i'll explain below.

I think fable played similarly last game I was in and he was town? IDK how he plays as scum though. I think he's null for the same reasons as makaze. None of their actions seem townie to me and the only thing I have to go off is their town meta but i've never seen their scum meta so yeah.

Radicate leans slight town for me. Don't think he would have dropped the fenrir thing as scum  so easily since he easily could have pushed fenrir on it IMO.

Everybody else is null

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Firstly, I would like to clarify that I did have suspicions about athena_57 with that early interaction and my "what are you trying to pull?" post, but I felt like I was overthinking it after they said it was a joke. I have a lot to say about it now though. Mainly:

12 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Disagree, I feel like being annoyed at someone trying to start an interaction with you is more likely to come from scum tbh. It felt to me like he was only reacting to you out of neccesity and broke it off as soon as possible, which is weird when you're at a point in the game where every bit of interaction you can get out of people is welcome information.

Vote: XnadrojX

You suddenly dropping a townread on him also felt weird to me, but your reasoning is good enough that I don't suspect you for it anymore (sheep me though).

12 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Okay

##Vote: XnadrojX

Other people have addressed this point but I most certainly, was not in any way attempting to break off interaction. In fact, if anyone was trying to break off interaction, it was athena_57 with the "it's a joke". Regardless if it's a joke or not, which no longer matters, this "reasoning" you bring up on me is just factually wrong.

Your reason for scumreading me is literally the reason athena_57 was townreading me, how do you view it as "good enough" for you not to suspect them?

You seem a little too easily convinced.

 

 

athena_57 just seems like they want to suck up to Bartozio, idk what to think about that.

But Bartozio just has such huge leaps of logic here, I can't see him feasibly arrive at the conclusions he did with any normal flow of thinking.

##Vote @Bartozio

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I'm just going to ignore the Makaze and Fable thing because despite how Makaze wants their and Fable's posts to not be viewed as NAI, it literally is NAI in every sense and I don't see how you can pull meaning from something that's not supposed to have meaning.

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12 hours ago, Rapier said:

Hiding emotions is hard, especially so for newer scumplayers. Wouldn't annoyance be a sign of crumbling to pressure?

This and the rest of your posts seem to be avoiding the topic of my alignment and just poking at everyone who has a read on me. Do you think I'm scum/town and why? 

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I'm going to get behind the pressure on EvanManMan to say I'd like to see something game-relevant from them too. 

Mackc2 feels town tonally from the responses to Makaze to their probing of Fenrir. Can't really see how Makaze scumreads him.

 

 

 

 

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Can't help but townread RADicate here, his probing of Fenrir feels genuine when it's honestly quite easy to just agree with stuff or call him out without much questioning. I'm going to wait until later in the Day to try to read Fenrir though, I'm interested to see how he's going to clear up the misunderstanding/miscommunication he had with RAD and I could see him feasibly make the posts as he did as scum trying to pocket me or town being the conspiracy theorist he likes to be.

Expanding on my point on Bartozio. he's also been responding to athena_57's questions and his general posting style just seems to be simple one- or two-liners. He wasn't not doing anything about the people he can't read or reads as null.

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Now that I think about it, this is the exact same development from SF Mafia Mafia 5... Athena votes for someone mildly inactive on Day 1, and stops the pressure in one back and forth. Then Bart comes in to weigh in on that same person, and Athena sheeps Bart. Then Athena gets called out for both backing off quickly and sheeping Bart. And Athena was scum that game.

I don't really like using meta, and there's probably going to be much more compelling reasons for a D1 lynch later, but I'd be down to test this pattern lol.

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4 hours ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

I don't think whether it was RVS or not matters either way, and the questions you asked Mackc/Bartozio aren't much better than the ones I quoted. Asking Bart what he thinks of Mack is a fairly generic question and NAI, and your questioning towards Mack is derived from him dropping in to comment and leaving-another reach in my opinion as you're making the argument that he felt the need to post without indicating what makes that scenario more likely than, for example, being unable to stay online or not finding anything of note.

To answer your second question here: Yes.

I think it IS pretty important why you chose the joke post. Even if the difference between a complete joke and a generic question is small in your eyes, the way you chose to format your case on me currently is completely ignoring game-relevant stuff I've posted and misrepping my RVS jokes as faked scumhunting.

If you look at the timeframes between Mackc's post and mine, there's less than 5 minutes. If he was going to leave immediately, why bother to make the post? I felt it wouldn't go anywhere, and that he didn't want to discuss it. Therefore, the conclusion I arrived at was that the post was made for the sake of making a post.

Seriously? Then how do you think the game should've started?

4 hours ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

I would consider Xnad's question of "What are you trying to do here?" to be, if he's town, a suspicion. This ties into what Junk was saying about your reply of "It was a joke" feeling dismissive and is why I agree with him that the post in which you do that/townread him feels more like it's you trying to shut down the conversation as opposed to him. Your voting him on the same page without a reply is something I can see coming from scum!Athena if you were looking for a way to revoke the townread after seeing Bartozio mention how said townread felt weird (regardless of whether or not Bartozio himself suspects you for it-what I'm saying is that in the scenario where you're scum the switch to voting Xnad would be out of paranoia that others would find the townread weird but not like the reasoning). Can you walk me through what the motivation/rationale is for town!you to townread and then vote him?

Do you then not think my posts were a joke? Do you think I was honestly reading into shitposting mentors? I think "It's a joke" pretty much sums up what was going on there.

The rationale was pressure. I didn't have a scumread on the guy, but felt two votes on one wagon were adding more pressure than two seperate votes.

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

RAD is town.

+1

1 hour ago, XnadrojX said:

Other people have addressed this point but I most certainly, was not in any way attempting to break off interaction. In fact, if anyone was trying to break off interaction, it was athena_57 with the "it's a joke". Regardless if it's a joke or not, which no longer matters, this "reasoning" you bring up on me is just factually wrong.

Your reason for scumreading me is literally the reason athena_57 was townreading me, how do you view it as "good enough" for you not to suspect them?

You seem a little too easily convinced.

 

 

athena_57 just seems like they want to suck up to Bartozio, idk what to think about that.

But Bartozio just has such huge leaps of logic here, I can't see him feasibly arrive at the conclusions he did with any normal flow of thinking.

##Vote @Bartozio

Yup, the reasoning was wrong. Also, you're right in that I was ending the conversation there. You were taking my jokes seriously and I decided I got out of the conversation what I wanted (a mild townread), so I ended the conversation before your annoyance turned into anger.

My vote on you was to see how you'd react under pressure. Speaking of which, whilst I can see your point on Bart and think the OMGUS-y vote is likely to come from town, I think the excessive vocabulary in the bolded sentence is a bit weird?

The same point could've easily been made without using terms like "huge leaps of logic" and I'm wondering whether this is just the way you talk or scum inflating the situation.

I like your other posts and agree with them for the most part.

##Unvote

56 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Junk is probably town this game.

Could you expand on this? I'm trying to sort out the people who've voted me. I think Rapier's vote on me was good, his point was correct (there was no change of opinion on my end) and I think his vote came from a good place in that it was meant to evoke reactions. Fenrir's is more iffy, especially because I dislike him using my RVS as evidence, and also ignoring my vote when giving his pocket theory. 

This leaves Junk. I originally wanted to take a look at the most sheepish vote on me, but I think I sort of liked their stuff so far. If you could explain why he's town to you, that'd be great.

On this note, I'll be rereading Junk, but for now, this was the most iffy vote on me and I'd be surprised if zero scummembers joined in on this.

##Vote @Fenrir Aesir

20 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Now that I think about it, this is the exact same development from SF Mafia Mafia 5... Athena votes for someone mildly inactive on Day 1, and stops the pressure in one back and forth. Then Bart comes in to weigh in on that same person, and Athena sheeps Bart. Then Athena gets called out for both backing off quickly and sheeping Bart. And Athena was scum that game.

I don't really like using meta, and there's probably going to be much more compelling reasons for a D1 lynch later, but I'd be down to test this pattern lol.

Bruh, please. When I started questioning him, literally everyone was mildly inactive. In fact, I chose to question someone who was online at the time so I could interact. Isn't this basically the exact opposite from what you're describing here? Also, in that game me hopping back on wasn't a sheep vote.

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16 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Also, @Makaze, my apologies if I missed this, but is your scumread on Fable just for his lack of coöperation? Because that's NAI, he did the same thing as town in IDNSFMM5.

I remember you were also gutreading him scum, but is that enough to make him your prime lynch candidate?

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