Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

[Iris]

Day 2: Automated Votals from #498 to #500

Not voting (11): athena_57, Bartozio, EvanManManMan, Fable, Fenrir Aesir, Junk, Mackc2, Makaze, RADicate, XnadrojX, Zeonth

Phase End

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[Fable]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Are you asking for someone else to give you a read to sheep?

Why not interact with Zeo yourself, by asking him something?

Your desperation to shade me is at about 11.

Need you to bring it down to at least an 8. 

[Makaze]

18 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

This feels overly snippy

Meh. I'm trying to avoid this, but they are not rhetorical questions. The only way I am going to be able to read Fable town is if he actually does what he is telling everyone else to do.

I'm getting the feeling people are just going to let him skate by complaining about no interaction without actually pressuring him to do any himself.

While it pings me that he is asking people to talk to him about Zeo without interacting with him (something that goes against everything he has been saying), my goal is to get him to actually do that interaction.

TL;DR I'm not making a political statement for the audience or trying to pick on him. I'm saying do it, actually talk to the person you're asking to sheep a read on. If you can't read their posts, generate some you can read, and try to get into their head.

Do you think I am wrong for wanting that, or are you just saying I should be more kind about it?

[Makaze]

I'm out until some other people post their intros and present reads (especially Fenrir and Bart).

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Meh. I'm trying to avoid this, but they are not rhetorical questions. The only way I am going to be able to read Fable town is if he actually does what he is telling everyone else to do.

I'm getting the feeling people are just going to let him skate by complaining about no interaction without actually pressuring him to do any himself.

While it pings me that he is asking people to talk to him about Zeo without interacting with him (something that goes against everything he has been saying), my goal is to get him to actually do that interaction.

TL;DR I'm not making a political statement for the audience or trying to pick on him. I'm saying do it, actually talk to the person you're asking to sheep a read on. If you can't read their posts, generate some you can read, and try to get into their head.

Do you think I am wrong for wanting that, or are you just saying I should be more kind about it?

If Zeo's not currently here I don't think it's wrong for him to try and engage others about it. Had zeo been online I'd agree.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your case, but both of you have been so caught up in this you're just framing all of each others content as bad to the point I can't take either  of your stuff on each other seriously.

[Fable]

I am literally trying to get discussion going right now. 

 

You trying to say otherwise is a joke.

[Fable]

Like sorry not all of us think we're automatically right all the time and want the opinions of other people. 

[Makaze]

I'm not trying to say otherwise! I'm saying ping Zeonth with questions he can answer when he gets here. I am not making a case, I am prodding you to do a specific thing.

This is very irritating because now no matter what I say or why if he reacts like its ridiculous, then it becomes ridiculous. If I ask a question, "Oh you're saying X about me now? LOL" That's not an answer, and I can't work around it, it's just shutting down the whole thing and ensuring this never moves on.

Take up the job of prodding him if you want, but please don't just let him skate by because he's doing this on purpose. I'm reaching out with content requests, that I believe, if he delivered, could help me change my read on him. And he's acting like everything I say is an attack, so it is, and my prods just end up looking like shade attempts. Why? Because you never get to see him deliver, I never get to digest the content, and nothing comes of it.

It's deliberately distracting from the point, and makes me want to leave the thread, like I tried to do just now. Let's see if I can again.

[Athena_57]

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Take up the job of prodding him if you want, but please don't just let him skate by because he's doing this on purpose. I'm reaching out with content requests, that I believe, if he delivered, could help me change my read on him. And he's acting like everything I say is an attack, so it is, and my prods just end up looking like shade attempts. Why? Because you never get to see him deliver, I never get to digest the content, and nothing comes of it.

It's deliberately distracting from the point, and makes me want to leave the thread, like I tried to do just now. Let's see if I can again.

This directed at me?

He made it clear he wasn't going to produce day 1, but would pick up on later days. This is what I remember from town!him as well.

I believe that if he's town he will start on his own. If he doesn't produce it solidifies a scumread on him, if he does we can discern his alignment from that. I do not see the point of prodding him to do shit all the time regardless of his alignment.

[Athena_57]

Note that I'm not opposed to you asking him questions, just don't overdo it.

[Fable]

Mak didn't ask me questions it was shade and basically asking for an itinerary for what I'm doing today which isn't how I do things, I'm generally very off the cuff and do things in real time. 

Now ask me what I think is important to do today well I've answered that already. 

I wanna figure out Zeo and Evan and sort out the Satsuma wagon and these are topics of discussion I wanna talk to people about and I've established that base and am just waiting for people to appear atp. 

[Zeonth]

1 hour ago, Fable said:

Mak didn't ask me questions it was shade and basically asking for an itinerary for what I'm doing today which isn't how I do things, I'm generally very off the cuff and do things in real time. 

Now ask me what I think is important to do today well I've answered that already. 

I wanna figure out Zeo and Evan and sort out the Satsuma wagon and these are topics of discussion I wanna talk to people about and I've established that base and am just waiting for people to appear atp. 

I’m mildly annoyed that I went to the trouble to read everything and post my thoughts just to be ignored. Ask away. And, reiterating a point I (and Maka) has made. This isn’t a real-time game, I do read over posts, especially ones I am pinged in. If you leave me questions I’ll answer when I’m not in class or at work. 

[Junk]

##vote @Bartozio

deadline thoughts are pretty much the same except for a few things. I find bart's satsuma vote  bad because voting for consolidation seems eh when there were a few hours left in the phase.  I feel like he could have tried harder for a fable lynch  since consolidation didn't seem urgent. Makaze is somewhat similar but i'm pretty sure I remember makaze having some suspicion of Satsuma at the very least far before deadline whereas bart never mentioned him until the consolidation post. Fenrir is townie.  His case is definitely original and idk why scum would choose RAD over just the typical "well someone was probably scum on the satsuma wagon". The thing that makes me hesitate about RAD being scum is actually his unvote at the end which fenrir didn't like. Rad could easily just do nothing IMO. No one seemed to dislike his satsuma vote. Unless he thought that people would suspect him just because he was on the satsuma wagon I don't really see any reason for the unvote (as scum). 

 

Everyone else is still null except for evan (already talked about why he's scummy) and athena who i'll consider a minor scumread at this point (down from a major scumread). Their answers to my questions have been okay. Can't say i've found anything they've done super townie but nothing super scummy either. 

 

 

@Fablewhy aren't you voting for bart?

[Junk]

Same with makaze. Unless I missed something fable still seems to be your favored read but no vote (unless I missed you giving a reason and if so sorry)

[Mackc2]

Dammit rapier was one of the people I finished ISO'ing 

[Fable]

@Junk

Because I want to give him a chance to explain himself first. 

[Mackc2]

@RADicate Why did you originally join Satsumas wagon and why did you get off 3 minutes from deadline?

[Mackc2]

@Bartozio Why did you decide to vote Satsuma? You had expressed a null opinion on them. 

[Mackc2]

Going to just clear up a few things, D1 my post that athena responded too was just posted for the sake of posting,I didn't have a plan for it and I got bored waiting for a response and went to play a game. I changed my vote to Fenrir Aesir after Makaze's prodding because I felt I needed to get a non rvs vote in but I was too lazy to actually do any scumhunting myself so I just sheeped Rad cause I thought it was a good point. With Bart I made the first post before I finished reading through their interactions, my opinion on bart has changed again. Just don't expect me to be consistent, if I flip flop a lot its because I am confused. I think that answers most of the questions I have been asked? I have also ISO'd about half the players now and will post some of the results now. 

[Makaze]

7 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Going to just clear up a few things, D1 my post that athena responded too was just posted for the sake of posting,I didn't have a plan for it and I got bored waiting for a response and went to play a game. I changed my vote to Fenrir Aesir after Makaze's prodding because I felt I needed to get a non rvs vote in but I was too lazy to actually do any scumhunting myself so I just sheeped Rad cause I thought it was a good point. With Bart I made the first post before I finished reading through their interactions, my opinion on bart has changed again. Just don't expect me to be consistent, if I flip flop a lot its because I am confused. I think that answers most of the questions I have been asked? I have also ISO'd about half the players now and will post some of the results now. 

This post is probably town.

[Mackc2]

Lets start with
Athena-Townread- If he is scum trying to push the Satsuma wagon he wouldn't point out that Satsuma's play matches his town play like he did in post 182. His push on Satsuma felt very town, It looked like he was conflicted on his alignment and probed him before finally deciding he saw him as scum. Also he just generally reads town, for example post 215 shows something I think only town would ask. 

This next one isn't relevant because he is dead but I am going to share it anyway so people can get a better idea how my thought process works.
Rapier-scumlean-Their progression on Athena felt forced, almost like they where actively looking for points to lynch them on. Other scumreads where nothing special. 
Evanmanman-scumlean-Not sure if hypocrisy counts as a scumread but I found it interesting that their main point on Fable was that they are 'more concerned with being scumread than why they are being scumread' but in post 379 he asks makaze ' Are you still suspicious of me?' not something like 'Why where you suspicious of me.'
Xand-townlean- I don't have much here their tone just generally seemed town. 
Bartozio-scum- Town Bart doesn't have any reason to continue poking Xanjarox after the second vote. He doesn't seem to listen to Xan's answers. He swapped tactics after he started getting heat for his tunnelling I can't discern any reason to do this that suggests scum or town, if anyone has ideas feel free to say them. I have a few more problems with them that stops them from getting my vote right now. I will get back to them later. 
Rad- Their lack of content makes it hard for me to get any sort of read. 
 

[Fable]

wolf!mack killing rapier then wolf reading him would be some lol level WIFOM and I like his reads so probably just village. Where are you finding post numbers though because I don't see them? 

Because the one thing I take issue with is you saying athena said satsuma was matching his village play when I remember taking issue with the fact he was saying the opposite at one point and I didn't think that was accurate. 

[Makaze]

He might be using one of my scripts that adds post numbers.

Check the Mafia Headquarters thread, it has some nice stuff.

[RADicate]

1 hour ago, Mackc2 said:

@RADicate Why did you originally join Satsumas wagon and why did you get off 3 minutes from deadline?

Not checking votals atm but iirc i was actually the first vote on the wagon. I actually just voted it to apply some pressure for them to get some content out. They were ghosting the thread at the time of my lynch and i asked them something along the lines of "Hey since you're hanging around whatchu think about things" (thats prolly not word for word).

As for why i got off; i wanted to avoid a hammer on the slot as i thought i still had an hour more before the DL hit. And didnt wanna that nonexistant hour to go to waste.

[Mackc2]

7 minutes ago, Makaze said:

He might be using one of my scripts that adds post numbers.

Check the Mafia Headquarters thread, it has some nice stuff.

Oh I have been using your ISO program, I can link the actual posts I have refered to if that would be better
 

2 minutes ago, RADicate said:

As for why i got off; i wanted to avoid a hammer on the slot as i thought i still had an hour more before the DL hit. And didnt wanna that nonexistant hour to go to waste.

And why did you not revote them after you found out the truth about the deadline?