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How Distinct are Characters in the Same Story/Character Archetype?


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I was just thinking, how different is Roy from Marth? How about Roy from Eliwood? How about Marth and Roy from Seliph? Is there that much of a real difference between them? Or are they all compared to one another... generic?

By "archetypes" here, I don't mean just the usual accepted archetypes, Camus, Merric, Lorenz, Jagen, Red and Green Knights, but characters in general who without quite the formalized archetype nonetheless fall into similar sex and or: age, personality, and class groupings.

What exactly does it take to make a character distinct from another in some form of category? How does a character not feel generic without being entirely original within the context of FE? I guess this would be the philosophy of the creative arts question that lay at the center of my thoughts.

 

Part of this is obviously the details around which their personality is placed. Marth is a prince in exile seeking to liberate the world, Eliwood is just looking for his father, Roy is in his realm trying to ward off an evil invading empire. But outside circumstances alone can't do it, since otherwise I wouldn't feel Marth, Roy, and Eliwood to be samey.

Is it wholly about the personality? Forde and Sain could be considered to both fall a Red-Green Knight duo, but Forde and Sain are very different in how they express their casual behavior.

Part of it may be how sensitive one is to subtlety. Kent and Kyle are both the more serious knights of their duo, but Kyle seems more serious to me, yet not enough so to make me not think him to be generically like Kent who came before him. Am I just unable to pick up on more significant differences?

And that brings me to ask if a factor in this is just the matter of who you like and don't like? Will the individual be more able to notice differences amongst those they like than those who they don't, and therefore uniqueness is a just matter of taste? I like Hector, I can see feel differences between him and Ephraim and Ike, two other warrior-oriented lords. But could someone who isn't so into them not see the differences?

 

When you stack these factors together, you can create very distinctive characters. Soren and Merric are both Merrics, but the two have very different personalities, background details, and as result the differences aren't subtle so I can certainly pick them up. But I also happen to really like them both so it may be that I just pick up more on the differences because I inspect them so closely.

But I am more interested into what the minimum is to separate a character from accusations of being generic, what constitutes the bear minimum to feel genuinely unique?

 

I know we already have topic dedicated on archetype usage in this subforum, so go ahead and lock this if it is unnecessary. I just thought it was a different enough, but I won't question a locking.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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This was on the r/fireemblem slate for today's archetype discussion, but I feel like the Minerva archetype strikes the right balance between similarity and distinction. All of the characters fit a common mold and often share quite a few traits, but they're all written different enough to be memorable in their own way and the scheme is never too consistent.

Archetypes start to break down when the characters diverge too much. I'd argue Soren was the last true Merric; Ricken feels like he's gone too far in his own direction and Hayato is more derivative of him than he is of Merric. Gameplay also has an impact: when the characters of an archetype perform well for most players then they become more recognizable, and if they always underperform (Bord and Cord) then the archetype stands a good chance of being discontinued.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It depends on the type of archtypes.

Lords can usually be quite easily sorted in two archtype. You got the softer lords like Marth, Eliwood, Seliph and Roy who are all dutiful, polite, dislike war and generally take after Marth in most areas. The other lord archtype is those who take after Hector. These lords are gruffer, often depicted more as a fighter than a leader, headstrong and more strongly build than the ones based on Marth. Hector, Ike , Chrom and maybe Ephraim would be part of this second group. While not lords themselves I feel Siegbert and Shiro were designed with these two lord types in mind too. 

Now that I look back on them the cavalier duo's are actually pretty diverse from each other for such an established staple of the series. Kent, Forde and Kieran are all very different from each other despite wearing the same armor. Sain, Kyle and Oscar don't really have much in common with each other either. 

The Merics are very distinct from each other in terms of design, personality, age and hairstyles. Most share a young age but this can range from children like Lugh and Ricken, young teenagers like Erk and (visually) Soren and young adults like Azelle and Merric. In their personality Lugh is all smiles and sunshine, Soren all doom and gloom, Azele's shy and Erk is studious. The only Merics who really take after another Merric is Hayato who takes after Ricken so much he's only a hair short of being a direct Awakening clone like his daughter. 

The Lorenz archtype is great but also really samey. All are old man in big armors with prominant beards. Their personality and motivations are incredibly similar too. 

The Camus archtype is mostly the same too. Put Xander, Camus and Eldigan next to each other and they are all blonde knights, usually wearing at least some black and all are driven by the same sense of self righteous patriotism and knightly honor. While female its easy to see that Selena is supposed to be just the typical Camus but with breasts. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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  • 1 month later...

I'd like to stress how important the visual design is too. Unless it's blatant fan service (or your Ana), visual design is not something people typically comment on, or even realise that it's drawing them to the character, but it is of massive importance, maybe even more so than writing. Swap Eliwood and Hector's sprite around and you suddenly have two entirely new characters, even if every single word of dialogue is the same. It hey, a better example, just look at how much more popular female!Corrin is compared to male!Corrin despite being literally the same character.

TL:DR, characters will feel less generic if they literally look less generic.

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19 hours ago, Jotari said:

just look at how much more popular female!Corrin is compared to male!Corrin despite being literally the same character.

Looking back the male and female versions of Corrin and Robin being the same character has started to be a little weird. 

The two Morgan's share a name and some quirk but are clearly different characters with the male one being nice and dorky while the female one is bratty and slightly sadistic. The Kanna's have some difference in them too. 

So if two optional and fairly minor characters have varying personalities depending on their gender then why are the male and female versions of the main character just copypastes from each other in terms of personality?  

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Looking back the male and female versions of Corrin and Robin being the same character has started to be a little weird. 

The two Morgan's share a name and some quirk but are clearly different characters with the male one being nice and dorky while the female one is bratty and slightly sadistic. The Kanna's have some difference in them too. 

So if two optional and fairly minor characters have varying personalities depending on their gender then why are the male and female versions of the main character just copypastes from each other in terms of personality?  

Probably because they're sort of designed not to have any personalities at all because they're avatars...but that doesn't hold a whole amount of ground either as they clearly do still have personalities, even if they're not as extreme as the typical characters in the 3DS games. I guess what I'm saying is that the writers could afford to have more fun writing for Kanna and Morgan, while with Robin and Corrin they had possibly a strict limiter enforced due to the nature as avatars.

Edited by Jotari
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