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Volke29

2018 and just digging into this! Character advice?

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Hello everyone! 

I bought this game for the DS a while back CIB. So many knockoffs of it ... any who. 

I just want to know people's thoughts on characters in this game. Rolf, for example in PoR, is an absolute god but was thought to suck by many back when the game released (and even today). I'm just wondering who is overlooked. Also wondering what major missables there/characters/items are. Bummer about online shop as it closed in 2014. 

Any other advice would be cool. I've destroyed PoR and Radiant Dawn (got that on release!) countless times over. Also, all 3DS games, too. 

One more thing -- is there some sort of challenge in this game a la Apotheosis? That was my favorite challenge of any FE game. I love the ultra hard maps. Thanks. 

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Go for Hardin. He's a cavalry you get pretty early on. He's got reliable bases and growths, and very early access to silver weapons. He also has an amazing turban. 

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1 hour ago, Volke29 said:

One more thing -- is there some sort of challenge in this game a la Apotheosis? That was my favorite challenge of any FE game. I love the ultra hard maps. Thanks. 

Nope. However, 5-Star Hard, Merciless Mode, is quite brutal, that should suffice instead of an Apotheosis. Particularly if you don't Warpskip later on.

 

1 hour ago, Volke29 said:

I just want to know people's thoughts on characters in this game. Rolf, for example in PoR, is an absolute god but was thought to suck by many back when the game released (and even today). I'm just wondering who is overlooked. Also wondering what major missables there/characters/items are. Bummer about online shop as it closed in 2014. 

Wolf and Sedgar start with terrible bases and promoted already, but for some very strange reason have growths exceeding what anyone else have. It makes no sense, but they're very good if you train them. 

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The Christmas cavaliers rarely go wrong if you train them.  Ditto with Barst (though if you need a Hammer RIGHT NOW, Bord will do for a map or two).

I suggest playing through Normal's Prologue.  Yes, it'll be easy, but it's four maps, and you get an additional bit of story.  Then, you can restart the game on a more competent difficulty.

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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wolf and Sedgar start with terrible bases and promoted already, but for some very strange reason have growths exceeding what anyone else have. It makes no sense, but they're very good if you train them. 

Wolf and Sedgar have crazy growths because in FE1 Horsemen weren't the promoted from Hunters and were there own class as were Knights and Generals which is why they have carzy growths to make up for how they are prepromoted.

If you don't mind reclassing, make Jeigan a Dracoknight, he does very well as one. Barst is really the only good axe user in the game, the others are meh at best. Caeda is amazing thanks to her Wing Spear which is basically a rapier. Don't use it too much, but also don't worry if you run out since you can buy more later. You also need Caeda for recruiting a lot of characters.

Just in general, experiment with reclassing, some units work really well as other classes that you might not expect.

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5 hours ago, ΔZZ said:

Wolf and Sedgar have crazy growths because in FE1 Horsemen weren't the promoted from Hunters and were there own class as were Knights and Generals which is why they have carzy growths to make up for how they are prepromoted.

And yet they are the only prepromotes that got this treatment, even though every other prepromote has bases in the same ballpark as Jagen.

 

Anyway, it's probably worth nothing that weight is counteracted by strength, just like in Tellius except even more redundant.

Classes that have no promotion like Thieves and Lords can go up to Level 30 instead of 20. Units with those classes are also incapable of reclassing.

It's a bit unfortunate that you play the game on the DS. Since Nintendo's old online services are down, it is no longer possible to obtain any items from the online shop. This means that some weapons as well as the Falcon Knight class are completely unavailable now. The Wii U virtual console surprisingly does allow accessing the online shop. That's not something you usually see on Virtual Console rereleases.

For whatever reason the game does not display the effects that Dragonstones have on the user's stats. My guess is that they initially designed the interface with actual transformations in mind, like in Mystery of the Emblem. In any case, it's important to keep in mind that the Firestone and the Divinestone give +4 speed while the Magestone gives -1 speed. However if you play the game on higher difficulty levels Manakete with displayed 20 speed can actually have up to 26 speed instead of 24 as one would think. Also unlike normal weapons, a Dragonstone will use up durability each time a Manakete enters battle, regardless of how often they actually attack.

Unfortunately, unlike Echoes, Shadow Dragon shoehorned the weapon triangle into a game that clearly wasn't designed for it. Which is bad news for Sword users as the vast majority of enemies will use Lances.

Edited by BrightBow

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On 7/1/2018 at 11:44 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Go for Hardin. He's a cavalry you get pretty early on. He's got reliable bases and growths, and very early access to silver weapons. He also has an amazing turban. 

That's good to hear! I literally just got him and really dig his look. This has perhaps the most horseman* of any FE game I've played. 

On 7/1/2018 at 12:10 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wolf and Sedgar start with terrible bases and promoted already, but for some very strange reason have growths exceeding what anyone else have. It makes no sense, but they're very good if you train them. 

I saw Wolf's growth rates on this website and was blown away. He is totally weak, but players like Wolf, who are crazy weak but later become Gods are my favorite FE characters. 

Huge bummer there is no optional ultra hard map. I get there is a crazy difficulty setting, but just not for me. I get if others dig that stuff, tho. 

On 7/1/2018 at 9:09 PM, BrightBow said:

Anyway, it's probably worth nothing that weight is counteracted by strength, just like in Tellius except even more redundant.

Classes that have no promotion like Thieves and Lords can go up to Level 30 instead of 20. Units with those classes are also incapable of reclassing.

It's a bit unfortunate that you play the game on the DS. Since Nintendo's old online services are down, it is no longer possible to obtain any items from the online shop. This means that some weapons as well as the Falcon Knight class are completely unavailable now. The Wii U virtual console surprisingly does allow accessing the online shop. That's not something you usually see on Virtual Console rereleases.

For whatever reason the game does not display the effects that Dragonstones have on the user's stats. My guess is that they initially designed the interface with actual transformations in mind, like in Mystery of the Emblem. In any case, it's important to keep in mind that the Firestone and the Divinestone give +4 speed while the Magestone gives -1 speed. However if you play the game on higher difficulty levels Manakete with displayed 20 speed can actually have up to 26 speed instead of 24 as one would think. Also unlike normal weapons, a Dragonstone will use up durability each time a Manakete enters battle, regardless of how often they actually attack.

Unfortunately, unlike Echoes, Shadow Dragon shoehorned the weapon triangle into a game that clearly wasn't designed for it. Which is bad news for Sword users as the vast majority of enemies will use Lances.

Thank you for the informative info! Yea, bummer about the online shop, but I'm a weird retro collector; I only collect what I want to play. On the flip side, one day Nintendo's digital copies will no longer work, while I'm still slaying enemies with my DS lol! (I say that in a friendly, joking way btw!) 

regarding thieves ... is it worth it to max them out? I like thieves in general, but I get the feeling they aren't good in this game. Thanks again! 

Edited by Volke29

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On 7/1/2018 at 1:18 PM, eclipse said:

The Christmas cavaliers rarely go wrong if you train them.  Ditto with Barst (though if you need a Hammer RIGHT NOW, Bord will do for a map or two).

I suggest playing through Normal's Prologue.  Yes, it'll be easy, but it's four maps, and you get an additional bit of story.  Then, you can restart the game on a more competent difficulty.

I can't stand fighters/pirates in FE games. But I dig Barst and I've decided to roll with him and ditch everyone else pretty much. 
 

Loose party formation right now: 

- Wolf

- Hardin

- Frey

- Marth

- Lena 

- Ogma (he's cool!) 

- Navvara (sword dude, don't know spelling, also cool!) 

- Barth

- Cain / Abel 

- The princess on the flying mount (forget her name ATM)

- Also, when I get her, Est. I hear she is supposed to be A+. 

Need a magic user or two. Just got one; forget his name, too. I'm sure this lineup will change. 

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Merric for potential, Wendell for giggles.

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6 hours ago, Volke29 said:

regarding thieves ... is it worth it to max them out? I like thieves in general, but I get the feeling they aren't good in this game. Thanks again! 

Yeah, they're not great thanks to their low bases and lack of promotion gains. Their growths are fine in theory, but since they get less levels then other units it's not that much of an advantage.

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THis game has playable balistae and a character who is able to duplicate any other party member. Both are great. It is worth noting that you don't get ranged magic untill the final chapter, but there are a wide variety of different kinds of balistae, including one effective against flyers, and one effective against other balistae.

IMO, caeda is the best flyer. the Wing spear is broken.

Est has high growth rates but joins massively underleveled. You have to baby her to use her, but she apperently turns out great if you do (think nino or mozu, only without tricks like turning her into a dlc class).

FYI, Sedgar is broken as a general (wolf might be too. have not tried) he takes minimal damage from almost anything (and can still use bows).

THe only two magic users you need are lena and meric. the only A rank tome is enemy exclusive, so Wexp is not that much of an issue. THere is a female exclusive tome with the same wierd restriction as excaliber, so you want a male and a female magic user.

THe only advantage thieves have is the ability to unlock things without keys (stealing is not a thing in this game). Marth gets the ability to unlock chests later. HOnestly, I just deploy a thief just for lockpicking when I need one, without bothering to level him up.

 

Edited by sirmola

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I'd recommend Navarre and Ogma. They pretty much soloed many maps for me. Merric is also a good character to train since you need him later on for a certain boss that can only be beaten by magic. 

I still think Navarre is the best unit once trained, he also does well when reclassed too. Although he does require some favoritism he's worth it in the end. 

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4 hours ago, Lost Impact said:

I'd recommend Navarre and Ogma. They pretty much soloed many maps for me. Merric is also a good character to train since you need him later on for a certain boss that can only be beaten by magic. 

I still think Navarre is the best unit once trained, he also does well when reclassed too. Although he does require some favoritism he's worth it in the end. 

Correction: Said boss can only be beaten by a specific magic spell. Nothing else works.

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You also don't actually have to fight that boss at all. It's beneficial for sure but it's hardly as crucial as it was in the original game.

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On 7/3/2018 at 11:55 PM, sirmola said:

THis game has playable balistae and a character who is able to duplicate any other party member. Both are great. It is worth noting that you don't get ranged magic untill the final chapter, but there are a wide variety of different kinds of balistae, including one effective against flyers, and one effective against other balistae.

IMO, caeda is the best flyer. the Wing spear is broken.

Est has high growth rates but joins massively underleveled. You have to baby her to use her, but she apperently turns out great if you do (think nino or mozu, only without tricks like turning her into a dlc class).

FYI, Sedgar is broken as a general (wolf might be too. have not tried) he takes minimal damage from almost anything (and can still use bows).

THe only two magic users you need are lena and meric. the only A rank tome is enemy exclusive, so Wexp is not that much of an issue. THere is a female exclusive tome with the same wierd restriction as excaliber, so you want a male and a female magic user.

THe only advantage thieves have is the ability to unlock things without keys (stealing is not a thing in this game). Marth gets the ability to unlock chests later. HOnestly, I just deploy a thief just for lockpicking when I need one, without bothering to level him up.

 

 

I haven't invested in Sedgar, but have been giving Wolf a lot of kills lately. Hard to level him early on, but when he levels, almost every stat increases. Gave him a forged bow to help with kills. 

I've been using Merric and Lenna. Need a mage and healer. Rhys in PoR turned out to be a great unit later on, hoping Lenna goes similar path. Thanks for insight. 

 

EDIT: Cain & Abel are seriously falling behind. They have been demoted to B squad. 

Edited by Volke29

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Just another thing to point out, promote healers asap. Healers have horrible growths in this game and just be healing and doing combat rarely if at all. For magic users, Merric, Wendal and Linde are all you need. Magic is pretty meh in this game since, with the exception of Excalibur (IIRC), no magic has effective bonus against anything, and SD is full of horses, armours and later on fliers, so effectiveness damage is key (Which is why the Wing Spear is so good).

As for your Cain and Abel falling behind, just use Hardin. He is by far the best cavalier in the game.

As for Est, later on when you get her, she needs babying, but she can get quite a few levels in her join chapter since it is full of cavs and she has the ability to use Ridersbane out of the gate sow with a little care, she can easily level up and she turns out great. Est is actually one of the better Ests ironically. Speaking of Est, if it can fly, use them. Fliers are amazing in this game.

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Just an update from me here .... finished the game a bit ago and man, it is perhaps the least memorable FE game I've ever played. I'm sure it was something special for its time, but this is perhaps my least favorite FE game. 

Moved on to FE Conquest (played Birthright first years ago) and I am totally digging it. Love the challenge. It's just too bad there isn't some crazy hard DLC map like there was in Awakening. 

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4 hours ago, Volke29 said:

it is perhaps the least memorable FE game I've ever played. I'm sure it was something special for its time, but this is perhaps my least favorite FE game.

I'm afraid not, it wasn't received too favorably, the 12th game didn't receive localization for a reason, it just wasn't great. None of the characters were really fleshed out, though really that's primarily due to a lack of supports that the game desperately needed. It was made too faithfully to the original and didn't expand as much as it should have.

Honestly if somehow Shadow Dragon/New Mystery hadn't happened, I'd think it would deserve the Echoes treatment, as I think that kind of recreation would have really helped the game. Though since it's too recent I'm sure that's a long-shot at this point.

Edited by RookofSpades

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Shadow Dragon is such a disappointment. Besides the modernization of the interface (which is crazy important of course) I feel like saying that pretty much every change was for the worse. Like for example, most stats and growths are recreated from how they were in the original game. But in the rare cases were they deviate from that, the changes don't seem to make any sense. Wolf and Sedgar got those crazy growths that no other prepromote in the game has. Linde's growths got heavily gimped, despite joining as a level 1 mage late into the game. And Samson and Arran got their level raised from 1 to 10 while keeping their actual base stats unchanged.

As for bosses, Medeus got crazy high speed now, even on Normal Mode. In order to avoid getting double attacked by him, Marth needs to reach level 21 on average. He couldn't even get that many levels in the original game. The game still makes the Falchion out to be required to defeat Medeus, yet in this version of the game Marth is hilariously bad at actually dealing with him. Considering this, I wonder why they even bothered to add a bonus chapter that gives you a weakened Falchion if you failed to get the real one.

And to say nothing of the missed story potential. Especially in hindsight in regards to Mystery of the Emblem, where Hardin serves as the main antagonist. Like, just try to imagine what the remake would look like if they decided to treat Hardin similar to Clive or Saber in Echoes. There are some good moments that were added but they all feel very isolated, not really part of a greater whole.

The whole game just feels super half-baked.  In fact, they even recycled most of the weapon and item icons from Mystery of the Emblem and left them mostly unchanged. Even the Falchion, despite the sword being redesigned so that the gem is in the blade and not in the hilt. ...as if the yellow/green palette wouldn't have been reason enough to change that icon.

Edited by BrightBow

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