Story changes in a Radiant Dawn remake?

[Lost Impact]

Just a thought I had. I already made a thread on Gameplay Changes, so what would you like to be changed in a remake of Radiant Dawn story-wise? These changes should not change any of the maps, but changes to playable characters are allowed, as well as character endings and support endings. 

[NinjaMonkey]

None, its fine as it is.

[smgrinus]

I think most people would like to see it available for digital purchase on Switch.  Both Tellius games are just fine as they are. 

[omegaxis1]

Expand Part 1, remove Part 2 as a side story, and readjust Part 4 and stop making it be so stupid in plot convenience. 

[Anacybele]

Just expand Micaiah's role a bit and explain the bloodpact a bit further, that's all I ask. And if it counts, give Ike and Elincia at least a platonic ending. And change Ike's normal ending, it's pure shit.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Anacybele

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Just expand Micaiah's role a bit and explain the bloodpact a bit further, that's all I ask. And if it counts, give Ike and Elincia at least a platonic ending. And change Ike's normal ending, it's pure shit.

And if the ending still has to be there, make it at least make a bit more sense as to why he would leave when he's basically leaving the Greil Mercenaries and his little sister. 

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

And if the ending still has to be there, make it at least make a bit more sense as to why he would leave when he's basically leaving the Greil Mercenaries and his little sister. 

Yeah, I suppose I'd be fine with this too.

[Brave Lance]

Make Micaiah look a little more like a capable leader and strategist, fix or replace the blood pact and explain a little more about why only certain people didn't get turned to stone. 

[Etrurian emperor]

Don't make Tormod get kidnapped by aliens. Just have him join the Laguz alliance because helping the Laguz is his primary goal in life. It makes no sense for him to avoid this conflict and it wastes the potential that Sothe can have by making him fight his best friend. 

[omegaxis1]

35 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Don't make Tormod get kidnapped by aliens. Just have him join the Laguz alliance because helping the Laguz is his primary goal in life. It makes no sense for him to avoid this conflict and it wastes the potential that Sothe can have by making him fight his best friend. 

That is true. I don't even get where the hell Tormod was in Part 3.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Don't make Tormod get kidnapped by aliens. Just have him join the Laguz alliance because helping the Laguz is his primary goal in life. It makes no sense for him to avoid this conflict and it wastes the potential that Sothe can have by making him fight his best friend. 

All the this.

 

I like Micaiah, and I like Yune, but I hate how Yune basically overwrites Micaiah's character completely. So, like, give Yune a body of her own. There's nothing really stopping her having one. She even briefly shows it off in a spiritual form in the ending, and she has proper character art. Just have a god pop out of the amulet, start telling them stuff and then vanish only to jump in and out whenever she feels like all Athos style. You wouldn't really need to change much at all, but Micaiah would feel more involved with the end game by virtue of, well, being more present during it. Also give Mixaiah a prf tome of some sort (other than Thani). She and semilord Robin are basically the only protgaonists that don't have a legendary weapon to call their own. Sephiran giving her Creddyland for the final battle against Ashera seems like the easiest fit.

Speaking of Sephiran, he really should have showed up at some point in the first half of the game. The first time the player actually sees him in game is during his boss fight. We got all his memories scenes which are really important for framing all his motivations, and there's one cg of him near the end of Part 1, but he himself never shows up even once. Have him just briefly appear during Pelleas' coronation or something to firmly establish this guy exists. This probably isn't a big issue if you played Path of Radiance first, but Radiant Dawn really should be able to stand on its own, even if it's a sequel, which for the most part it does pretty well. Also keep that scene in the Japanese version where he murders a bunch of rioters during the Serenes massacre.

I don't mind Pelleas being available only on a second playthrough, but give us him as a playable character earlier. Even from base of 4-2 would be better than during the map, as it would let you equip skills to him.

 

[Troykv]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Just expand Micaiah's role a bit and explain the bloodpact a bit further, that's all I ask. And if it counts, give Ike and Elincia at least a platonic ending. And change Ike's normal ending, it's pure shit.

I think at least some extra hints of his normal ending would be okay; like an special conversation before Chapter 4-5-Final with someone (that person would be Micaiah, Mist, and/or even Titania; but not Soren, because he already has the Memory Conversation in this chapter if you fit the criteria) talking about the subject.

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

All the this.

 

I like Micaiah, and I like Yune, but I hate how Yune basically overwrites Micaiah's character completely. So, like, give Yune a body of her own. There's nothing really stopping her having one. She even briefly shows it off in a spiritual form in the ending, and she has proper character art. Just have a god pop out of the amulet, start telling them stuff and then vanish only to jump in and out whenever she feels like all Athos style. You wouldn't really need to change much at all, but Micaiah would feel more involved with the end game by virtue of, well, being more present during it. Also give Mixaiah a prf tome of some sort (other than Thani). She and semilord Robin are basically the only protgaonists that don't have a legendary weapon to call their own. Sephiran giving her Creddyland for the final battle against Ashera seems like the easiest fit.

Speaking of Sephiran, he really should have showed up at some point in the first half of the game. The first time the player actually sees him in game is during his boss fight. We got all his memories scenes which are really important for framing all his motivations, and there's one cg of him near the end of Part 1, but he himself never shows up even once. Have him just briefly appear during Pelleas' coronation or something to firmly establish this guy exists. This probably isn't a big issue if you played Path of Radiance first, but Radiant Dawn really should be able to stand on its own, even if it's a sequel, which for the most part it does pretty well. Also keep that scene in the Japanese version where he murders a bunch of rioters during the Serenes massacre.

I don't mind Pelleas being available only on a second playthrough, but give us him as a playable character earlier. Even from base of 4-2 would be better than during the map, as it would let you equip skills to him.

 

I wonder if Micaiah possesed was mostly a thing to make the final part of the story flow faster (because there is in fact many stuff in where Micaiah would have done and said something; included the fact she heard the voices of her ancestors; but the only memories we saw are pretty much related with Sephiran's fall to darkness)... They pretty much only wanted to show the absolute neccesary stuff even if that ended up (sadly) making the game's protagonist (Micaiah) feel less important (than it actually is) in the end.

End-game Part 3 and Part 4 are so rushed story-wise despite feeling too long to play xD

I would like to have Creiddylad with Micaiah too; but I guess something about the weapon should change slightly to make it more effective in the final battle. (I guess the Creiddylad we see in Sephiran would be the same that we know; but when Micaiah holds the Creiddylad; it would technically be a different weapon, with a changed description and stats, despite having the same animation and name).

Reference for stats and description: https://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Creiddylad

Edited July 2, 2018 by Troykv

[Modamy]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

And change Ike's normal ending, it's pure shit.

 

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

And if the ending still has to be there, make it at least make a bit more sense as to why he would leave when he's basically leaving the Greil Mercenaries and his little sister. 

Ike's a warrior and his entire character is about becoming stronger and honing the skills passed down to him by his father. Now that his strongest rival on Tellius is dead and the only other opponents left for him are the Laguz Royals (who have better things to do than constantly sparring with Ike) why wouldn't he leave in search of opponents in other parts of the world. He doesn't have any obligation to stay with the Greil Mercenaries since their in good hands being lead by Titania and they built up enough of a reputation to do well in business and Mist is grown; she can take care of herself. Although all of that is assuming they didn't just go with him since I always found it a little ambiguous as to whether or not they also stayed in Tellius.

The only changes I would like in the story are to have Tormod show up in part 3 since it doesn't make sense why he wouldn't be involved in a war between his country and the Laguz alliance. Part 4's endgame essentially has five lead characters in Ike, Yune, Micaiah, Sanaki, and Kurthnaga so I would like to see all of them a bit more active in the story at that point.

Also the Creiddylad would suck as a prf for Micaiah so I don't think it's 11 might would be all that helpful for her unless the game went through some rebalancing to make magic better.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Modamy

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Troykv said:

I think at least some extra hints of his normal ending would be okay; like an special conversation before Chapter 4-5-Final with someone (that person would be Micaiah, Mist, and/or even Titania; but not Soren, because he already has the Memory Conversation in this chapter if you fit the criteria) talking about the subject.

I wonder if Micaiah possesed was mostly a thing to make the final part of the story flow faster (because there is in fact many stuff in where Micaiah would have done and said something; included the fact she heard the voices of her ancestors; but the only memories we saw are pretty much related with Sephiran's fall to darkness)... They pretty much only wanted to show the absolute neccesary stuff even if that ended up (sadly) making the game's protagonist (Micaiah) feel less important (than it actually is) in the end.

End-game Part 3 and Part 4 are so rushed story-wise despite feeling too long to play xD

I would like to have Creiddylad with Micaiah too; but I guess something about the weapon should change slightly to make it more effective in the final battle. (I guess the Creiddylad we see in Sephiran would be the same that we know; but when Micaiah holds the Creiddylad; it would technically be a different weapon, with a changed description and stats, despite having the same animation and name).

Reference for stats and description: https://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Creiddylad

Oh Yune should definitely still appear for the tower scenes and be the one observing Lehran's memories. Basically none of that needs to change, Yune just needs her own body. Even if all of her and Micaiah's dialogue remain exactly the same (minus the shared body lines) meaning Micaiah's role isn't actually expanded at all, it would still feel like it's expanded purely from them being separate characters.

You're right, Micaiah would do all of 1 damage against Ashera's godly resistance stat. Rather than having Sephiran and Miaciah using separate Creiddylads, I'd rather Creddylad just got a buff to make it a more memorable weapon (which it should be if it's to be a one chapter only legendary weapon for Micaiah). Maybe ignoring half the enemy's RES.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

18 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Ike's a warrior and his entire character is about becoming stronger and honing the skills passed down to him by his father. Now that his strongest rival on Tellius is dead and the only other opponents left for him are the Laguz Royals (who have better things to do than constantly sparring with Ike) why wouldn't he leave in search of opponents in other parts of the world. He doesn't have any obligation to stay with the Greil Mercenaries since their in good hands being lead by Titania and they built up enough of a reputation to do well in business and Mist is grown; she can take care of herself. Although all of that is assuming they didn't just go with him since I always found it a little ambiguous as to whether or not they also stayed in Tellius.

...Did you even play the same games we did? Ike was never about just being strong and finding strong opponents to face, he was about carrying on his father's legacy, being able to avenge Greil's death by beating the BK, becoming a good leader for the Greil Mercs, and being there for Mist and the rest of his "family." He has all the obligation in the world to stay with the Greil Mercs and lead them! He doesn't want to keep facing strong opponents or explore the world, he wants to keep his father's mercenary company and legacy going and look after his sister. He's said so as much in both games. It makes no sense for Ike to ever want to leave because of how much he emphasizes wanting to stay a part of that family and keep leading the company for his father.

He even actually promised Mist at one point that he'd never leave. And the art book even says family is one of his biggest values. Why would he just abandon that value for no explained reason?

Edited July 2, 2018 by Anacybele

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Ike's a warrior and his entire character is about becoming stronger and honing the skills passed down to him by his father. Now that his strongest rival on Tellius is dead and the only other opponents left for him are the Laguz Royals (who have better things to do than constantly sparring with Ike) why wouldn't he leave in search of opponents in other parts of the world. He doesn't have any obligation to stay with the Greil Mercenaries since their in good hands being lead by Titania and they built up enough of a reputation to do well in business and Mist is grown; she can take care of herself. Although all of that is assuming they didn't just go with him since I always found it a little ambiguous as to whether or not they also stayed in Tellius.

The only changes I would like in the story are to have Tormod show up in part 3 since it doesn't make sense why he wouldn't be involved in a war between his country and the Laguz alliance. Part 4's endgame essentially has five lead characters in Ike, Yune, Micaiah, Sanaki, and Kurthnaga so I would like to see all of them a bit more active in the story at that point.

4

I am aware, and I even wrote a thread on reddit about why I think Ike had left, as he has become someone that seemed to enjoy a good fight and the loss of Zelgius really got rid of the best fight he ever had. However, it's way too subtle and still feels a tad out of nowhere. If they have to make him leave, at the very least, make it so that it feels like he really does want to leave and see the world out there. Because 

Sanaki I can understand, but where does Kurthnaga come into this? Apart from Dheginsea, he has no real role. Or maybe Dheginsea is all there is.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I am aware, and I even wrote a thread on reddit about why I think Ike had left, as he has become someone that seemed to enjoy a good fight and the loss of Zelgius really got rid of the best fight he ever had. However, it's way too subtle and still feels a tad out of nowhere. If they have to make him leave, at the very least, make it so that it feels like he really does want to leave and see the world out there. Because 

Sanaki I can understand, but where does Kurthnaga come into this? Apart from Dheginsea, he has no real role. Or maybe Dheginsea is all there is.

Dheginsea is a pretty big part of the end game. It's even gets higher billing than the Ike Zelguis grudge map, what with being the ante-penultimate chapter (yep, that's a word) and being the point in which Yune breaks out the big guns and starts blessing weapons.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Dheginsea is a pretty big part of the end game. It's even gets higher billing than the Ike Zelguis grudge map, what with being the ante-penultimate chapter (yep, that's a word) and being the point in which Yune breaks out the big guns and starts blessing weapons.

Well, if it gives Kurthnaga a chance to be more developed, show that he will become the new Dragon King, and how resolved he is to even fighting the goddess, I'm down with that. I mean, Kurthnaga has the names of two Fire Emblem characters, Naga and Kurth, the latter has Naga blood.

[Modamy]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...Did you even play the same games we did? Ike was never about just being strong and finding strong opponents to face, he was about carrying on his father's legacy, becoming a good leader for the Greil Mercs, and being there for Mist and the rest of his "family." He has all the obligation in the world to stay with the Greil Mercs and lead them! He doesn't want to keep facing strong opponents or explore the world, he wants to keep his father's mercenary company and legacy going and look after his sister. He's said so as much in both games. It makes no sense for Ike to ever want to leave because of how much he emphasizes wanting to stay a part of that family and keep leading the company for his father.

He even actually promised Mist at one point that he'd never leave. And the art book even says family is one of his biggest values. Why would he just abandon that value for no explained reason?

Caineghis:
“Ah, Ike. Your work out there was superb.”

Ike:
“Hey, you aren’t quite over the hill yet yourself. You know, I always wanted to go one-on-one with you, just once.”

Caineghis:
“Hah, I would have expected you’d had your fill of fighting.”

Ike:
“I’ve had enough kill-or-be-killed to last me a lifetime. But something simpler, some way of testing our respective strengths…”

Caineghis:
“You mean controlled matches, with all the little rules they have. In a peaceful world, we need such things. Especially we laguz. Without a fight now and then, we go a bit strange in the head.”

Ike:
“That’s the honest truth. I’d rather try to order a river to change course than stop a bunch of rampaging laguz!”

Ike's conversation with Caineghis in the epilogue is there to show that he wants to fight strong opponents, but not through warfare. Ike enjoys fighting just not to the death.

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Sanaki I can understand, but where does Kurthnaga come into this? Apart from Dheginsea, he has no real role. Or maybe Dheginsea is all there is.

I think that's more than enough. Each part of endgame resonates the most with each of the characters I pointed out. 1 with Micaiah, 2 with Ike, 3 with Kurthnaga, 4 with Sanaki, and 5 with Yune. Each of those points in Endgame serve to cap off those characters personal arcs.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Caineghis:
“Ah, Ike. Your work out there was superb.”

Ike:
“Hey, you aren’t quite over the hill yet yourself. You know, I always wanted to go one-on-one with you, just once.”

Caineghis:
“Hah, I would have expected you’d had your fill of fighting.”

Ike:
“I’ve had enough kill-or-be-killed to last me a lifetime. But something simpler, some way of testing our respective strengths…”

Caineghis:
“You mean controlled matches, with all the little rules they have. In a peaceful world, we need such things. Especially we laguz. Without a fight now and then, we go a bit strange in the head.”

Ike:
“That’s the honest truth. I’d rather try to order a river to change course than stop a bunch of rampaging laguz!”

Ike's conversation with Caineghis in the epilogue is there to show that he wants to fight strong opponents, but not through warfare. Ike enjoys fighting just not to the death.

I think that's more than enough. Each part of endgame resonates the most with each of the characters I pointed out. 1 with Micaiah, 2 with Ike, 3 with Kurthnaga, 4 with Sanaki, and 5 with Yune. Each of those points in Endgame serve to cap off those characters personal arcs.

I'm not saying Ike can't enjoy a good spar every now and then. But that doesn't mean he wants it so bad that he'll give up his family and everything he'd prepared himself for throughout at least PoR in order to get those spars. I feel like Ike just abandoning all that kills the point of his development into a strong leader and good warrior to keep the Greil Mercs going for years and years, at least until he would pass the torch onto one of his children or an apprentice or something.

Also, his ending didn't even say anything about looking for strong opponents. It just said he went to explore lands unknown, which was never something he ever indicated wanting to do.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Caineghis:
“Ah, Ike. Your work out there was superb.”

Ike:
“Hey, you aren’t quite over the hill yet yourself. You know, I always wanted to go one-on-one with you, just once.”

Caineghis:
“Hah, I would have expected you’d had your fill of fighting.”

Ike:
“I’ve had enough kill-or-be-killed to last me a lifetime. But something simpler, some way of testing our respective strengths…”

Caineghis:
“You mean controlled matches, with all the little rules they have. In a peaceful world, we need such things. Especially we laguz. Without a fight now and then, we go a bit strange in the head.”

Ike:
“That’s the honest truth. I’d rather try to order a river to change course than stop a bunch of rampaging laguz!”

Ike's conversation with Caineghis in the epilogue is there to show that he wants to fight strong opponents, but not through warfare. Ike enjoys fighting just not to the death.

I think that's more than enough. Each part of endgame resonates the most with each of the characters I pointed out. 1 with Micaiah, 2 with Ike, 3 with Kurthnaga, 4 with Sanaki, and 5 with Yune. Each of those points in Endgame serve to cap off those characters personal arcs.

You almost make me feel like Part 2 should have been about Sanaki, instead of Elincia (Elincia ends up stealing like all of the Begnion playable characters anyway for some reason).

Edited July 2, 2018 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Modamy said:

Caineghis:
“Ah, Ike. Your work out there was superb.”

Ike:
“Hey, you aren’t quite over the hill yet yourself. You know, I always wanted to go one-on-one with you, just once.”

Caineghis:
“Hah, I would have expected you’d had your fill of fighting.”

Ike:
“I’ve had enough kill-or-be-killed to last me a lifetime. But something simpler, some way of testing our respective strengths…”

Caineghis:
“You mean controlled matches, with all the little rules they have. In a peaceful world, we need such things. Especially we laguz. Without a fight now and then, we go a bit strange in the head.”

Ike:
“That’s the honest truth. I’d rather try to order a river to change course than stop a bunch of rampaging laguz!”

Ike's conversation with Caineghis in the epilogue is there to show that he wants to fight strong opponents, but not through warfare. Ike enjoys fighting just not to the death.

@Anacybele Already knows. I showed her the same thread and explanation. But that doesn't fully exude that Ike left his sister and the mercenaries, which is still out of character for Ike. He did promise Mist that he wouldn't leave her, and Mist clearly wanted that promise upheld in RD.

3 minutes ago, Modamy said:

I think that's more than enough. Each part of endgame resonates the most with each of the characters I pointed out. 1 with Micaiah, 2 with Ike, 3 with Kurthnaga, 4 with Sanaki, and 5 with Yune. Each of those points in Endgame serve to cap off those characters personal arcs.

2

I think Sanaki would still have a lot of merit on 1 as well since that's where she gets told straight up that she's not the Apostle.

Oh yeah, another thing I want. There to be a bit more development of Micaiah's past. She's lived for some time now, despite how she appears. Maybe get memories of her mother that Sanaki never did, or that she mentions that she once had a sister, but cannot remember her anymore. Just understand what happened with Micaiah in the past, and the case about Micaiah and Sanaki's parents. What happened with them?

[Anacybele]

Yeah, and omegaxis and I did have a conversation about this very topic, so I'm aware of some things.

I would have less issue with the ending if we were just given a damn reasonable explanation instead of it coming out of nowhere and giving a DAMN good reason for Ike to break a promise he made to his damn sister of all people!

Which reminds me, and this would actually go for PoR too, I'd like Ike and Mist's relationship as siblings explored more. As much as I love Ike and the character writing of Tellius in general, one of the few flaws, imo, is how underdeveloped their relationship is. They care about each other, but it's not shown much. They don't even have any support conversations or many base conversations where they interact! I think Ike interacts with Elincia and Soren more than he does his precious little sister and Mist seems to interact more with Rolf than her big brother. Let us see them doing some usual amusing sibling bickering or something to show how hard it is to cope with the loss of their father and such. Show us them growing closer by being able to overcome those things!

The best we got here was their conversation during the ship scene in PoR where they got marooned at Goldoa. And that wasn't much.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, and omegaxis and I did have a conversation about this very topic, so I'm aware of some things.

I would have less issue with the ending if we were just given a damn reasonable explanation instead of it coming out of nowhere and giving a DAMN good reason for Ike to break a promise he made to his damn sister of all people!

Which reminds me, and this would actually go for PoR too, I'd like Ike and Mist's relationship as siblings explored more. As much as I love Ike and the character writing of Tellius in general, one of the few flaws, imo, is how underdeveloped their relationship is. They care about each other, but it's not shown much. They don't even have any support conversations or many base conversations where they interact! I think Ike interacts with Elincia and Soren more than he does his precious little sister. Let us see them doing some usual amusing sibling bickering or something to show how hard it is to cope with the loss of their father and such. Show us them growing closer by being able to overcome those things!

And yet, outside of Ephraim and Eirika, it's probably the best developed sibling relationship any main character has in the series.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Jotari said:

And yet, outside of Ephraim and Eirika, it's probably the best developed sibling relationship any main character has in the series.

I disagree. I felt even Tellius had better sibling relationships in the form of Oscar, Boyd, and Rolf. I loved those three and their relationship so much that they're my favorite siblings in the series. You have to dig a bit to find everything on them, but it's there. From Boyd's story to Ike about how Oscar left the knights to care for his brothers after their dad died, to Rolf and Boyd bickering more than once throughout both games, to discovering Rolf's mom in Begnion and Rolf choosing to stay with his brothers, it's so touching!