About Byleth aka "the teacher"...!

[Maimishou]

On 7/5/2018 at 11:36 PM, Flee Fleet! said:

I think having a silent avatar (with decisions to make choices) is better than having an avatar with an already established personality.

I don't. Yeah silent protagonist work for cases like Pokemon and Legend of Zelda but,  and I'm probably biased since Birthright was my first FE game, I think the way Fates handles avatars is exactly the way FE should handle them. Let them be the center of the story and have their own character but let us make decisions for them in regards to name, appearance, supports, etc.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Maimishou

[Flee Fleet!]

8 minutes ago, Maimishou said:

I don't. Yeah silent protagonist work for cases like Pokemon and Legend of Zelda but,  and I'm probably biased since Birthright was my first FE game, I think the way Fates handles avatars is exactly the way FE should handle them. Let them be the center of the story and have their own character but let us make decisions for them in regards to name, appearance, supports, etc.

A player is supposed to feel like he's the avatar, but you don't get that sort of feeling if the avatar has a predetermined personality (and worse, a personality that's far off from what yours is supposed to be). Which is why I think silent protagonists are better. Furthermore IS didn't really handle any of the avatars we had so far in a really good way (though I'm unsure about Corrin and Robin since I didn't play Awakening or Fates, but based on what most others said, they don't seem to be very liked due to the way they were handled...).

Of course, I respect your opinion. I just feel like silent protagonists are better.

[Chopper...]

2 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Furthermore IS didn't really handle any of the avatars we had so far in a really good way (though I'm unsure about Corrin and Robin since I didn't play Awakening or Fates, but based on what most others said, they don't seem to be very liked due to the way they were handled...).

You have to take into account that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar in FE in the first place, regardless of how it's handled, and that can cause some seriously biased opinions on the matter. For example, some people didn't like Awakening because of the different and new mechanics it brought, and instead of saying "it's not my thing", they will say "it's bad".

[FuranSuwa]

53 minutes ago, Chopper... said:

You have to take into account that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar in FE in the first place, regardless of how it's handled, and that can cause some seriously biased opinions on the matter. For example, some people didn't like Awakening because of the different and new mechanics it brought, and instead of saying "it's not my thing", they will say "it's bad".

Did I miss an interview stting that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar ? Last thing I knew was that Corrin and Daeren were very popular, F Corrin even one 1rst place in a popularity contest. Even from most social media I have never seen people hating on the avatars, just saying it should be better handled.

[thecrimsonflash]

10 minutes ago, FuranSuwa said:

Did I miss an interview stting that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar ? Last thing I knew was that Corrin and Daeren were very popular, F Corrin even one 1rst place in a popularity contest. Even from most social media I have never seen people hating on the avatars, just saying it should be better handled.

I don't recall anyone liking female corrin because she is an avatar though, it is purely because they consider her a waifu, and I have never heard anyone praise her for being an interesting character.

[SageOfAnys]

1 hour ago, FuranSuwa said:

Did I miss an interview stting that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar ? Last thing I knew was that Corrin and Daeren were very popular, F Corrin even one 1rst place in a popularity contest. Even from most social media I have never seen people hating on the avatars, just saying it should be better handled.

It's probably not half, but hate towards the avatar characters does exist, and those that do absolutely despise avatars are pretty vocal about it.

Robin is still somewhat divisive with people hating how they were handled during the Valm/Grima arcs in Awakening. Kris isn't talked about much due to not many people playing FE12, but those that did generally have a very, very negative opinion about Kris. And regarding Corrin, M!Corrin has one of the largest hatedoms I've ever seen in the FE fandom regarding a single character, literally rivaling Peri, Camilla, and Tharja. F!Corrin mostly gets a pass because she's considered "a cute waifu" and a some believe Corrin's personality better fits F!Corrin than M!Corrin and hate her less because of that.

The only avatar I don't see significant hate for is Mark, but even Mark is still frequently criticized for being so inconsequential that people forget that they exist when playing.

Even then, I'm pretty sure that many people who claim to not want/hate avatars don't actually hate them, period. They probably just lack faith in IS's capabilites of producing a good avatar considering their previous shoddy track record.

[Chopper...]

1 hour ago, FuranSuwa said:

Did I miss an interview stting that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar ? Last thing I knew was that Corrin and Daeren were very popular, F Corrin even one 1rst place in a popularity contest. Even from most social media I have never seen people hating on the avatars, just saying it should be better handled.

I'll use this as an example (the poll varies only slightly from time to time, it seems): 

Half and half. I'm glad you have never seen the hate, but it also baffles me that you haven't. It's one of the most common complains since the existence of Kris. Some even like to quote Shouzo Kaga, who once said Fire Emblem should never have a self-insert character. I didn't say the avatars weren't popular, there's a reason we still have them. But they're infamous also.

[Dandy Druid]

A teacher that doesn't talk... LOL

I'm ok with them being silent if they are an avatar though. Reminds me of the Persona protagonist.

Although I do wonder how supports will work with them though? Perhaps it'd be like SoV's base conversations?

[Chopper...]

29 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

A teacher that doesn't talk... LOL

I'm ok with them being silent if they are an avatar though. Reminds me of the Persona protagonist.

Although I do wonder how supports will work with them though? Perhaps it'd be like SoV's base conversations?

Here! This is an example I showed a few posts back of how (weirdly) the supports go for a silent avatar:

Spoiler

 

Silent Robin was an option in the japanese version, and you can't understand what Emmeryn says but you get a very good idea of how it all goes.

Might be improved in 3H if they do go for it again, though.

[Flee Fleet!]

10 hours ago, Chopper... said:

You have to take into account that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar in FE in the first place, regardless of how it's handled, and that can cause some seriously biased opinions on the matter. For example, some people didn't like Awakening because of the different and new mechanics it brought, and instead of saying "it's not my thing", they will say "it's bad".

I mean, I know many people don't want another avatar in FE, but that's mostly because of their lack of faith in IS due to the way they handled all the avatars so far (including Mark, who's basically non existent).

[Florete]

21 hours ago, Chopper... said:

You have to take into account that half of the fandom don't like having an avatar in FE in the first place, regardless of how it's handled, and that can cause some seriously biased opinions on the matter. For example, some people didn't like Awakening because of the different and new mechanics it brought, and instead of saying "it's not my thing", they will say "it's bad".

Citation needed. The fans on the internet are not nearly the majority.

20 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

I don't recall anyone liking female corrin because she is an avatar though, it is purely because they consider her a waifu, and I have never heard anyone praise her for being an interesting character.

It's extremely unlikely that female Corrin made it to the top of popularity polls on being "a waifu" when most people will have chosen Corrin's gender to match their own, thus male players would not even see her.

[Chopper...]

18 minutes ago, Florete said:

Citation needed. The fans on the internet are not nearly the majority.

That's why statistics are a thing.

18 minutes ago, Florete said:

It's extremely unlikely that female Corrin made it to the top of popularity polls on being "a waifu" when most people will have chosen Corrin's gender to match their own, thus male players would not even see her.

They don't need to play as her to make her a waifu, only to see her and like her design, although I know of people who played as F Corrin because she was their waifu.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Chopper...

[thecrimsonflash]

5 hours ago, Florete said:

Citation needed. The fans on the internet are not nearly the majority.

It's extremely unlikely that female Corrin made it to the top of popularity polls on being "a waifu" when most people will have chosen Corrin's gender to match their own, thus male players would not even see her.

to add to @Chopper...'s response, it is not uncommon for guys to pick the girl in RPGs, if you did a poll you could easily a good eighth of the guys questioned answering yes to using a female avatar, there are also those who make a second playthrough with the other sex, both would have gotten plenty of exposure regardless of demographics. 

I recall Zero in a commentary over smash bros ultimate said that he always picks the girl in pokemon.

Edited July 8, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[MyBoyHector]

23 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

A teacher that doesn't talk... LOL

I'm ok with them being silent if they are an avatar though. Reminds me of the Persona protagonist.

Although I do wonder how supports will work with them though? Perhaps it'd be like SoV's base conversations?

There are other ways to communicate then just verbally, the Teacher might use sign language, interpretive dance, or Morse Code via eye blinking. :P

As for the Avatar discussion, I don't mind the MU (Avatar, or what other term you want to use), I don't mind if its talkative or quiet, I just hate it when its suddenly the lord's personal whipping boy or uber hero for no reason. Robin while was a nice character is an example of that. In the end, a MU that doesn't shift the focus from the main characters ultimately is the best MU.
 

[Dandy Druid]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:07 PM, Chopper... said:

Here! This is an example I showed a few posts back of how (weirdly) the supports go for a silent avatar:

  Hide contents

 

Silent Robin was an option in the japanese version, and you can't understand what Emmeryn says but you get a very good idea of how it all goes.

Might be improved in 3H if they do go for it again, though.

Oh I see. I guess it can work then. I wonder how it will be received by most people though.

6 minutes ago, MyBoyHector said:

There are other ways to communicate then just verbally, the Teacher might use sign language, interpretive dance, or Morse Code via eye blinking. :P

As for the Avatar discussion, I don't mind the MU (Avatar, or what other term you want to use), I don't mind if its talkative or quiet, I just hate it when its suddenly the lord's personal whipping boy or uber hero for no reason. Robin while was a nice character is an example of that. In the end, a MU that doesn't shift the focus from the main characters ultimately is the best MU.
 

lol at blink code. For this avatar, IF they are one, I hope they stay their supportive role.

[Florete]

5 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

to add to @Chopper...'s response, it is not uncommon for guys to pick the girl in RPGs, if you did a poll you could easily a good eighth of the guys questioned answering yes to using a female avatar, there are also those who make a second playthrough with the other sex, both would have gotten plenty of exposure regardless of demographics. 

I recall Zero in a commentary over smash bros ultimate said that he always picks the girl in pokemon.

Female Corrin would not get so popular from this small portion of the fanbase. And consider something else: that Japanese poll where Corrin ranked #1 for females also had Leo rank #1 for males, which is definitely the result of female voters.

Additionally, guys who prefer to choose the female avatar probably don't see Corrin as "a waifu" in the first place.

[Lau]

My experience with silent protagonists is limited to Mark from Blazing Blade, Link, and the Pokemon protags, but honestly? I'd prefer a fully voiced Byleth in the same way Kris, Robin and Corrin were. I'm sorry, but I feel like having a silent avatar just makes them...pointless?  Especially if they're going to be playable.

Link and the Pokemon protags work because you play exclusively as them. Mark was very forgettable because, well, he didn't speak and he wasn't playable.

Honestly, I don't even want Byleth to be an avatar. Not because I don't like avatars - I have a love/hate relationship with them - but because he has so much potential to be a fully fleshed out character from his name alone. And I love his design.

So, please don't make Byleth a silent avatar, I don't even relate to avatars anyway because I could never see myself in a medieval fantasy setting, flesh him out a bit like Robin.

 

 

[Chopper...]

21 hours ago, MyBoyHector said:

There are other ways to communicate then just verbally, the Teacher might use sign language, interpretive dance, or Morse Code via eye blinking. :P
 

Hahahhahahaha, best post yet.

11 hours ago, Lau said:

Honestly, I don't even want Byleth to be an avatar. Not because I don't like avatars - I have a love/hate relationship with them - but because he has so much potential to be a fully fleshed out character from his name alone. And I love his design.

I was talking with a friend precisely about this, starting with the meaning of his name, which is very cool; he does have a lot of potential. Also, isn't Byleth a boy's name? I tought they had to had names that could be used for both genders. Although I don't know if Corrin or Robin are only boy's names, to be honest, nobody's called that where I come from. I know Kris is.

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Chopper...
Grammar...

[Lau]

4 hours ago, Chopper... said:

Hahahhahahaha, best post yet.

I was talking with a friend precisely about this, starting with the meaning of his name, which is very cool; he does have a lot of potential. Also, isn't Byleth a boy's name? I tought they had to had names that could be used for both genders. Although I don't know if Corrin or Robin are only boy's names, to be honest, nobody's called that were I come from. I know Kris is.

 

I haven't a clue about Byleth, but Robin is definitely a unisex name - Robin Williams was an actor, Robin Wright is an actress. I guess most females with the name have it spelt 'Robyn'. My mum is friends with a woman called Corrin, but I'm not sure if it's spelt the same way.

[Chopper...]

10 minutes ago, Lau said:

I haven't a clue about Byleth, but Robin is definitely a unisex name - Robin Williams was an actor, Robin Wright is an actress. I guess most females with the name have it spelt 'Robyn'. My mum is friends with a woman called Corrin, but I'm not sure if it's spelt the same way.

Ohh, I see!! So they are really unisex.

Well, in regards to Byleth, the name comes from a demon king who commands legions and holds great knowledge, and I felt it was more of a male-only name because it comes from a male demon, but I guess that's not necessarily the case, and we could still have an avatar named that way, male or female.

Fun fact: This demon is also known to be able to give its conjurer all the love of both men and women that the conjurer desires. And there's a movie where Byleth is referred to as "the demon of incest".

It's like everything about the name references the avatars of FE, such a perfect name, haha 

[Lau]

12 minutes ago, Chopper... said:

Ohh, I see!! So they are really unisex.

Well, in regards to Byleth, the name comes from a demon king who commands legions and holds great knowledge, and I felt it was more of a male-only name because it comes from a male demon, but I guess that's not necessarily the case, and we could still have an avatar named that way, male or female.

Fun fact: This demon is also known to be able to give its conjurer all the love of both men and women that the conjurer desires. And there's a movie where Byleth is referred to as "the demon of incest".

It's like everything about the name references the avatars of FE, such a perfect name, haha 

*gasp* Could Byleth be following in Corrin's footsteps? Could we be seeing back-to-back bisexual Lords? Hahah!

Ahhh, I just really like Byleth. He's definitely my favourite out of the four main characters.

[Chopper...]

5 minutes ago, Lau said:

*gasp* Could Byleth be following in Corrin's footsteps? Could we be seeing back-to-back bisexual Lords? Hahah!

Ahhh, I just really like Byleth. He's definitely my favourite out of the four main characters.

Mine too!! I loved his design!! And yes, hahahaha, I think we'll be getting a second round of bisexuality in this new game 

[thecrimsonflash]

I can't wait for more incest.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Since SMT always having silent protags was brought up, which I bear with, and understand given most mainline titles have alignment choices, there was one instance where the protag was silent, only for some very interesting scenes to not be silent at all. Unfortunately, the protag being silent then made something very different that happened after that not quite felt to be what it is supposed to be.

 

5 hours ago, Lau said:

*gasp* Could Byleth be following in Corrin's footsteps? Could we be seeing back-to-back bisexual Lords? Hahah!

 

Please give them more options than just stalker reborn and a liker of innuendo. At least three distinct homoromantic pairings per sex.

 

5 hours ago, Chopper... said:

Well, in regards to Byleth, the name comes from a demon king who commands legions and holds great knowledge, and I felt it was more of a male-only name because it comes from a male demon, but I guess that's not necessarily the case, and we could still have an avatar named that way, male or female.

I do like Ars Goetia, that big Medieval demonology fanfic. FE could afford to borrow more names from it.

 

I don't really care too much for Robin, rather dislike them actually in the main narrative. The default "genericized" personality Japan often goes with is okay, but I don't love it, nor the character worship that comes with an avatar (although FE lords had plenty o' feet kissers before avatars became a thing). Eh, worst comes to worst, I just flip past the plot.

[Chopper...]

19 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Please give them more options than just stalker reborn and a liker of innuendo. At least three distinct homoromantic pairings per sex.

I like Niles a lot, and the S supports for the two were adorable, but I agree with this. The fact that, out of the 65 characters, they chose only the two with the heavily twisted minds to be the same-sex marriage option gives a very bad impression and some sort of idea of how the developers think it is. I really hope they change that in 3H.

19 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I do like Ars Goetia, that big Medieval demonology fanfic.

Hahahahahaha, it really is just that, isn't it.