Thoughts on Tactics Drills (May Contain Solution Spoilers)

[Icemario]

I love the concept to bits, hands-down my favourite aspect of the entire game, and I'm glad they finally added something like this to the game.

The little details the beginner and skill study drills had you looking out feel quite well thought-out, and I reckon new players would definitely appreciate some of the things the drills explore. The Grandmaster ones are painful, however: even now I've only managed to do the Escape Route / Wings of Mercy one, which I had thought to be the easiest anyway, just due to the limited amount of moves you could really make due to the layout. I am enjoying the difficulty however, and I'm eagerly anticipating the enormous relief from when I finally complete the rest of them.

Edit: An afterthought, but I do dislike how it sounds as though there's only one set of actions you can make towards the solutions. I would much more readily prefer them accommodating some flexibility and some minor deviations as opposed to the more linear thought process needed to beat the Grandmaster maps.

I also hope that they plan on adding more than a single map every week, because the ploy map felt a bit underwhelming, despite being a rather good demonstration of their effects.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Icemario
Had some afterthoughts

[Marston]

People just need to get into the mindset that these are puzzle maps with a single solution. It may not really fit into normal Fire Emblem Gameplay, but this is not normal Fire Emblem gameplay. This is a preset situation and you need to get out of it alive.

[Othin]

Glad I stayed out of all these threads until I finished everything.

I beat Grandmaster 1/2/4/5/7 the first day, then took some breaks and started slowly examining every angle of 3/6/8. Ended up figuring out 6 yesterday, then 8 and 3 today.

I found the Infernal maps really satisfying, especially 6. 4 was my least favorite: I din't even really remember what I did, just tried a bunch of random stuff until one thing somehow worked out.

It's neat getting to use a bunch of rare units even without actually having them. They're also available in Voting Gauntlets and brigades, but this really brings out their potential in a new way. (Plus I just stick to my own units with brigades, personally.)

1 minute ago, Marston said:

People just need to get into the mindset that these are puzzle maps with a single solution. It may not really fit into normal Fire Emblem Gameplay, but this is not normal Fire Emblem gameplay. This is a preset situation and you need to get out of it alive.

Exactly. The Grandmaster maps in particular are about flipping your thinking around to get strange little advantages you wouldn't normally prioritize.

I think it's really fun as the thing it is, but you can't go in expecting it to be something else.

[DehNutCase]

5 hours ago, Icemario said:

Edit: An afterthought, but I do dislike how it sounds as though there's only one set of actions you can make towards the solutions. I would much more readily prefer them accommodating some flexibility and some minor deviations as opposed to the more linear thought process needed to beat the Grandmaster maps.

I think most of the maps have multiple solutions---there always felt like there was enough leeway that you could mess up a bit and still clear it.

Spoiler

For the Zelgius one, for example, my solution had Zelgius on the middle of the map for the last combat.

(Personally I found the more rigid maps easier, anyway, since you notice right away if you fuck up, or are about to fuck up. #8 I beat in one try because all of the wrong moves screamed at me that 'you will lose if you do this'.)

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I think most of the maps have multiple solutions---there always felt like there was enough leeway that you could mess up a bit and still clear it.

The Lunatic maps have a lot less space to move around than the Infernal maps, which naturally leads to only one solution.

Grandmaster 2 has more leeway with exact squares because teleportation means some turns have multiple squares where you can stand for the same effect, but who takes combat against whom on which island is still pretty much fixed.

[DehNutCase]

42 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The Lunatic maps have a lot less space to move around than the Infernal maps, which naturally leads to only one solution.

Grandmaster 2 has more leeway with exact squares because teleportation means some turns have multiple squares where you can stand for the same effect, but who takes combat against whom on which island is still pretty much fixed.

Doesn't 7 have multiple solutions?

 

Zelgius definitely has multiples---that was what I mentioned in the spoiler.

 

Edit: I'm a fucking idiot. Misread Infernal for Lunatic, lul.

Double Edit: In terms of just Lunatics, I'm pretty sure the healer one has multiple solutions---since you can heal multiple times and still clear, it means you have enough free turns to do other things. Same for the Nowi & Takumi & Cherche one.

Triple Edit: Wow... I guess I just auto-piloted through most of these maps. The counterattack one seems very rigid now that I did it again, only see one solution so far, and multiples seem doubtful.

Edited July 13, 2018 by DehNutCase

[DehNutCase]

Double post because using edits makes it hard to have a conversation.

@Ice Dragon

The healer map definitely has multiple solutions, I cleared it again with a completely different end state than the last time I did it.

Spoiler

Wrys ended up outside the walls this time.

 

[Alkaid]

After beating the latest one, I think I agree that more wiggle room would make these more fun. I found multiple solutions on a couple, but overall I don't care for how strict they are. At least I'm seeing why i like strategy games more than puzzle games.

[Korath88]

The first turn was obvious but the second turn had me stumped for a while. I think I tried every other possible combination of movements before getting it right.

[Stroud]

The new one took me less time then most. Maybe I am a bit more comfortable and getting used to these.

[Raven]

I also found it easier than most previous grandmasters. It's probably because there's very few movements you can do in phase 1 which result in no deaths by phase 3.

[Garlyle]

I think the difficulty on this one was fair. Took me some time, because I was not sure how Gunthra has her special ready, aaaand I didn't check all the enemy skills. Good thing it had a time limit, challenges with higher turn limit can get overly complicated.

[Othin]

6 hours ago, Raven said:

I also found it easier than most previous grandmasters. It's probably because there's very few movements you can do in phase 1 which result in no deaths by phase 3.

Yeah, the length is a big factor.

You only have 3 turns, tied with #7 for the least of the Infernal maps. But Turn 1 is also very restricted compared to most other Infernal maps, and Turn 3 is pretty straightforward if you set it up right.

[DLNarshen]

On 7/10/2018 at 11:43 AM, DLNarshen said:

It sure has succeeded in making me feel like a complete fool.  Azama, Wrys, Lucius, I hate you all.

Two weeks and several hours worth of attempts later, and I still can't clear GM4.  Any strategy that seems even remotely promising is foiled by the turn limit or that jerk-off Cavalier with Renewal.  I'm so mad.  Next time I play this I'm not going to bother with the methodical approach -- just going to start throwing random moves around and maybe something will work.

[Othin]

Does anyone have any vague hints for last week's Grandmaster drill?

[DehNutCase]

43 minutes ago, Othin said:

Does anyone have any vague hints for last week's Grandmaster drill?

How vague do you want?

 

The biggest tip is probably that Marth doesn't need to attack everyone he can attack, but he does need to stand where he needs to stand (he also teleports if you let him face tank enough to get low).

Edit: The solution is pretty tight for this one, Catria will do exactly 1 damage, just enough to finish the armor off at the very end of everything. It's really a matter of knowing exactly what everyone on your team can do and putting it all together---pivot, repo, knockback, and combat on both phases.

Edited October 24, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Othin]

15 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

How vague do you want?

 

The biggest tip is probably that Marth doesn't need to attack everyone he can attack, but he does need to stand where he needs to stand (he also teleports if you let him face tank enough to get low).

That was perfect, thanks!