Jules

What's your opinion of buying orbs?

Buying orbs  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Have you ever bought orbs?

    • yes
      55
    • no
      16
  2. 2. How much money have you spent yet? (in US-$)

    • < 50
      28
    • 50-99
      11
    • 100-199
      6
    • =>200
      15
    • I don't know
      7
    • I don't want to share
      4
  3. 3. What's your opinion of the price?

    • cheap
      1
    • fair
      17
    • expensive
      36
    • way too expensive
      17
  4. 4. Do you think it was worth to buy orbs?

    • yes, I got a lot of new units
      14
    • yes, I could get a lot of feathers by trading summoned units into them
      10
    • yes, I got a lot of copies I could merge
      10
    • It was not bad, but less than I expected
      27
    • It was a waste of money
      17
    • I haven't bought yet
      15
  5. 5. Do you consider spending money as cheating in some way?

    • yes, because you avoid getting the orbs by fulfilling all quests
      0
    • yes, because you get a huge advantage in arena
      3
    • no, because it's the purpose of a gacha game
      58
    • I don't know
      3


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Since there's a special sale going on currently, I made a calculation of price-perfomance-ratio for myself just to find out how worth it is to buy orbs. I came to the result that an orb would cost almost 0,60 €, if I bought the 43,99€ offer which included 75 orbs. That means it would cost me about 12 € for a complete pull of five units. In comparison I bought two Ys games for the same total price. And I'm talking about a special offer here!  Imo these prices are absolute not fair! And many people tend to buy orbs when they get frustrated by having multiple bad summoning sessions a / o not pulling a unit they really want. I don't want to scare people and take their fun, but imo the prices of orbs have reached a dimension which is not justified at all. If the price was halved, it'd be fine for me to buy the one or other orb.
 

Edited by Hecatia Lapislazuli

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It's specially expensive for our conversion prices in Argentina (I think like $24 pesos = 1 dollar)...but then it goes to say just how valuable orbs can be as an in-game currency. I've bought $13 dollar packs once a month, tops (not even every month), and it somewhat helps me out with the 23 extra orbs.

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Spending = cheating how

Someone please explain to me.

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I find it pretty expensive, but I still go for it if there are characters I want. I've spent far, far less of late because I'm getting less happy with their decisions and no longer wish to support the game as much as I did, which is the main reason I spend money (I hope I'll get the characters I want but if I don't, I'm still supporting a game I've spent well over a year playing daily).

The cheating question is a bit odd. The game was designed for people to drop money, so it's actually going along with the design. However, f2p can still do as well as whales, and dolphins like me might do worse than f2p depending on priorities (mine is to collect all the pretty boys, regardless of how good they are or what stats I get).

I wouldn't have many of the units I have now if I didn't spend, so I'm glad with what I've got :)

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Orbs are expensive, yes. They seem to cost about the same as SQ in F/GO, which I also consider to be overpriced. Guess that's why IS decided to create the monthly deals, so those who spend money but don't whale have a way of getting a fair amount of orbs for a not that unreasonable price. 

Then again these are called premium currency for a reason, they're meant for those who have the means of affording such prices or are idiots with gambling problems that get themselves into debt. In any case, the answer is simple. If you have the means and enjoy summoning/want to support the game, go ahead. If you don't have the means then you shouldn't consider buying orbs, after all you probably need the money to pay your bills and get food.

I personally don't buy orbs anymore because the one time I did I ended with a -Atk Julia which made very clear that luck>money in these types of games. That also answers the last question you posted, buying orbs doesn't necessarily gets you what you want because you pay for a chance of rolling, not for a unit (BK pack aside) so $$$ doesn't really give that much of an advantage unless you whale hard, like >100 per banner but at that point it would be terrible for them to not get what they're looking for, although I bet there's some unlucky souls out there that just get pity breakers no matter how much they spend.

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Prices are definitely tuned towards high-spenders, and I think the gacha "genre" is old enough such that they'd know the approximate pricing that would be optimal for maximising profit. I see it as a product that's targeted at richer customers than me, and I don't have an issue with it as such, just as I have no issue with the existence of Porsches or thousand-dollar bottles of wine.

That said, there are certainly very predatory aspects to how the game is structured which make me somewhat uncomfortable, but such is life. I'm not going to concern myself with foreign companies operating under foreign law.

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bfd4da37afaf81faa35ec3ee350ff32ca4ad2147

Jokes aside, I'm not sure I see the point in spending money for orbs. First of all there's no guarantee that you'll get anything out of it, and it's very expensive. I also wouldn't want to only have an army of perfect units as that would lessen the challenge of some maps - I realize you can restrict yourself, but if you build a favorite character and want to use them without them breaking the game in half, then you'd effectively need a second one that isn't broken. My regular horse team and A!Tiki are already borderline too good and I rely on them more than I'd care to admit.

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Quote

Spending = cheating how

I fixed (readded) this question to try being a bit more clear.

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I have bought orbs and I don't regret it, it did get me some units that I want, and I don't find the orbs particularly expensive. Spending = cheating makes no sense as that is literally the point of a gacha game.

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I know the idea of Gacha is that it's basically gambling, but I think they'd stand a lot better if they made the system more reliable. Ie, the more money you put in, the better your chances of getting what you want. I know they'll probably never get the price of even a normal game out of me because (for starters, I'm rather stingy) whenever I do buy, it's, as has been mentioned, out of frustration on the last few hours of a banner. And unfailing I've always come up with nothing meaning my purchase was completely pointless. I think they'd stand to make a lot more if instead of having separate pull rates for each banner, there was some kind of universal pity bonus. So even if I end up failing to pull that one Ninan I've spent the last week grinding orbs to get, at least it wasn't all pointless because I could use the pity rate on another banner. People would feel better about their purchases that way and then end up spending more. At least, I think I would.

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I've just recently broken out of F2P, and I've spent £20 - £10 of that was a gift.

On each summon, I managed to get the two units I wanted, so I'm fine with it.

Is it cheating? No, not at all, because you're not guaranteed to get the units you want. You're just spending money, so really, you're putting yourself out of pocket.

As long as spenders know the risks, and limit themselves, it's fine.

EDIT: I think the orbs are expensive. In the UK, 10 orbs cost £5.99. That's just a pound short of buying...say, one volume of Naruto.

Edited by Lau

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I haven't bought or plan on buying any orbs because I know that if I spent, let's say, 1 € on it, that'll quickly turn into 2, then 10 and so on. Basically, I have no self control when it comes to stuff like this. I'll probably never get to rank 20 on the arena because I'm a F2P but I'm fine with that.

I don't consider buying orbs cheating because that is literally the only way the developers make money out of the app. I'd much rather have that than have billion ads etc.

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I'm sympathetic to the "support the devs" rationale, but only to the extent of initial spending. I mean, one 20-pack of orbs is already the same amount of cash I gave Eric Barone (Stardew Valley), and y'know, pound for pound he's done a lot more work. The total amount of money I've spent on FEH is pretty much the same as I've spent on something like The Witcher 3, and it's fairly obvious which I'd rather have.

Now obviously linking the amount of money I spend to relative development effort isn't a particularly sensible thing to do. More reasonably the principle that matters is that *puts on best Leonard Nimoy impersonation* everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. And as far as I'm concerned, even if I play this game for another five years, the money I've already put into it is already more than adequate remuneration.

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It's your money, you can do with it as you wish.

I personally have come to the decision that it's only worth it to purchase orbs from the monthly one-time deals ($10 for 21 orbs and some extra materials) as that is actually reasonably priced.  Aside from that, orbs are too steeply-priced (as Alexmender pointed out the price of orbs is roughly equivalent to the price of Saints Quartz in Fate/Grand Order yet it only takes 3 quartz to summon while it takes 5 orbs to summon in FEH) and the game is plenty generous with free orbs so the only time you should need more than the game gives you is if you're trying to build +10 limiteds with 5* exclusive skills or if you just constantly have really rotten luck.

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Honestly, I have no idea if it's fair or not. On one hand, I have spend money on it. Maybe over a grand total of $100 because of the special orbs sales. On the other hand, I've  incredibly dumb buying it because how many free orbs I've gotten. On the other hand, I really want all hands on deck when that banner I want inevitably comes. Which usually involves dancers or Awakening.

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I'm surprised there are that few "never bought orbs" votes.

I don't see the appeal in it. There are enough free orbs to snipe plenty of desired characters over time. The kind of money it takes on average for each character beyond that is so much more than any individual character is worth to me, especially compared to other entire games that money could be spent on instead. Any orbs spent to fail to get a character would feel really unsatisfying, and I don't think I'd feel satisfied even if I got the character I wanted. With each month offering free orbs worth like $160 or more, it takes so much money to really make for a noticeable increase at all.

As for supporting the game, it gets plenty of money through rather unethical business practices without my help. There are plenty of other forms of media I'd rather use my money to support, especially after the last few seasonal banners.

Closest I came to spending money was the Black Knight starter support pack, back when I was using him in the arena every week so the merge would have meant a lot. But I thought about the potential for similar packs in the future and how continuing to buy them would feel just as worthwhile while really just being a money drain, so I decided to avoid getting into that entirely. The later packs have been even less compelling so it doesn't look like it would have been an issue, but regardless, my feeling is still why even start on something like that. 

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I can't see the worth in buying orbs, mostly because of how buying them just gives you more chances to attempt to get whatever you were after, as opposed to guaranteeing it (not that it should be like that). I don't think paying for just a chance of what you want is particularly attractive, especially when the game has nowadays provided a rather steady supply of orbs every month and more so when you compare the prices for orbs to the prices for real-life objects.

The monthly deals are the only things I could reasonably justify spending money on purely because they come with things that are guaranteed to do what you want them to (eg. divine dew, sacred coins, refining stones) but even then I have zero interest in buying any of them because the game still provides enough of those resources anyway. I also feel like the first purchase could very easily lead into further purchases that could escalate, and I'd rather not deal with that.

While I said "I don't know" on the poll, I don't think it is by any means. You paid, so you get access to more resources. F2P players can still accomplish similar feats across the game's modes, so it is not as though paying gives you an unfair advantage. Luck has the last say irregardless of how much money you sink into the game.

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As long as people know the risk and have the means, it's their money to do what they want. I do agree though that orb prices are very expensive, but that high pricing seems very standard among gachas.

I've spent maybe a couple hundred since launch, which feels not too excessive to me. I don't regret having similarly bought some cosmetics and whatnot in an MMO years back(which I no longer play), because I still enjoyed my time back then and I didn't go beyond my means. I've "wasted" far more money on stuff like TCGs and whatnot. And while it's true gachas are impermanent and you get to keep cards and/or resell them, I'm not spending so much that I'm that worried over it. That said, from my experience my luck still blows in this game a lot of the time and money doesn't often solve bad luck. I only consider buying a few orbs if it's a character I really don't want to miss out on, like a seasonal for one of my favorites.

My only real issues related to buying orbs is when people try to lord either their whale or F2P status over people. Surprisingly, I think i see the latter more often. Both are equally shitty behavior.

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"Cheating" implies you've gained an unfair advantage.  Since the game was built on the premise that people would buy orbs (which is the only reason Nintendo would make a game like this), buying orbs isn't cheating in any mainstream definition.  Yes, spending can give you an advantage, but it's not cheating any more than paying for a tutor for a class is cheating.  Anyone can spend money, and there is nothing in the rules saying they can't.  I've spent money on the game, my sister hasn't- we both made our own choices, and she is free to spend money if she wants to.  I'm not cheating, and neither is anyone else who buys orbs and plays the game as it was meant to be played.  As a teacher, a student (yes, both at once), and a former moderator for a gaming forum, I get a little defensive about cheating accusations.

Are orbs expensive?  Yes.  Did I make my own informed choice to spend my own money on them anyway?  Yes.  Does that make me a lazy player, a cheater, or anything of the sort?  Definitely don't see myself that way.  The game wouldn't exist if people weren't spending money.  Nothing wrong with being F2P and nothing wrong with spending money you can afford and want to spend (with all the usual caveats on what you should spend money on).

So...  there's the rationale behind my votes.

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I've spent about $1200 total so far.  Sometimes the new unit just won't come home.  There's a sunken cost aspect to it, once I get going I can't stop till I get them otherwise whatever I spent already was truly wasted. I'm buying all monthly deals, since I know eventually I will whale I might as well get the bonuses in the mean time. 

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I've probably spent close to $800 or so total on the game since it launched. I'm not a whale though, I only think spending money on games like this is okay in moderation. Otherwise, you're going to make yourself go broke and also possibly develop a gambling addiction.

I admit, I HAVE spent more than I would've liked to (I'd rather it be more like $500 than $800, honestly), but I think I was still responsible enough and I'm not spending thousands or getting addicted to gambling or anything, so...

And I do think I've mostly gotten my money's worth. Several merged 5 stars, lots of feathers, etc. came out of that money.

Edited by Anacybele

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Most of my negative thoughts are more due to my issues with gacha on a fundamental level, and not specifically relating to Heroes. However, as one measly person like me choosing not to spend on the game isn't going to revolutionize the system, being stuck at F2P limits nobody but myself. That being said, I'm not above admitting that I've compromised my morals on multiple occasions and have bought some orbs.

On to the actual orb/summoning talk, regarding Heroes specifically, my issues with its system is that it gives less (in pure numbers) in comparison to other gacha systems. In a technical sense, its 5 Star/SSR rates are more generous than most other gacha games, which honestly isn't saying much. You get a full summon, of a whopping 5 pulls, for a hefty 20 orbs. Maybe I've been spoiled by F/GO, but 10 pulls for 30 resources feels like a happy medium. More about this will be mentioned a little bit later. The initial rates would feel considerably better if it weren't for the fact that rates that low are reliant entirely on RNG. Because of the random nature of the rolling system, the difference feels minute since you can still easily get RNG screwed. Heroes' main problem is its lack of a proper guarantee system. Other gacha like Fate/Grand Order and Granblue Fantasy have 10 pulls with the incentive of upped rates and/or at least 1 guaranteed higher rate pull. It may not always be a 5 Star/SSR, but you know you have a better chance. There are also other systems like sparking (which does requires saving a lot of summoning resources) or GSSR's (a paid gacha system that 100% guarantees a 5 Star) and while they can take a lot of saving or can still screw you over (thanks, Medb), at least you know you know you're getting something out of it.

In Heroes, it's still quite easy to get a full session entirely composed of 3 Stars from any pity rate. And on the subject of the pity rate, I don't need to go on a long spiel about it. All it is is a poorly conceived substitute to an actual guarantee system. While more numbers in a numbers game seems great at first, it can only go so far. Take Legendary Banners for example. 8% is a nice rate up on the surface:
"Have this rate up! It's more than 200% better than the original rate, it's colored in fancy gold and look at its sexy slightly larger font."
Unfortunately, when you can still get situations with a pity rate of 12-15% or more and still get pity broken by something undesirable on something so allegedly generous it really loses its appeal.

Now, to actually talk about the subject of the post itself, Heroes is quite generous to F2P players, as far as resources are considered at least. However, summoning resources are limited. Between story stuff, various challenges and small events here and there, you can get quite a lot of orbs, but ultimately those resources are still limited. After you've exhausted your orb sources, if there's something you'd really like to pull for but won't get enough orbs to pull anymore, then you're kind of screwed. It may not be the best option, nor may it always get you something, but it's better than not being able to try at all.

Overall, I'm not sure if I can say whether it was more worth it than not to purchase orbs or vice versa. Sometimes I've had really awful luck doing it, sometimes I've had really good luck doing it, and varying luck has happened in between. I can't genuinely say whether I feel like it's completely worth doing or completely worth ignoring. The good, bad and ugly luck is merely a product of the system. All it really boils down to is that it's up to the player to decide whether it's worth it to buy, so long as they are aware of the possible disappointment.

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Never spent on orbs.  You are spending money for more chances at getting something good rather than something concrete.  I'd rather go to a casino for that, plus you aren't stuck with the slot machines you can do other games in which you can use skill or at least have some influence on the outcome.  

I'll never forget when I first started this game, on reddit was the complaint of someone who spent 1000 dollars to pull Hector (off focus) and didn't get him.  Then there are many people who spent hundreds and didn't get the unit they want.  Essentially it is gambling with your money, but not to earn more money as in casino games or betting on sports/horse racing, but to get a set of stats and skills with some art in a game.  

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In the past year or so that I've been playing FEH, I've spent about $150. Yes, I've stayed F2P until the Black Knight Care Package reared its head. I have no regrets, really, save for not having fixed my finances to allow spending for the game sooner lol.

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I'm going to answer here instead of the poll because there aren't enough choices there, and I can't go in detail, especially on question 3.

  1. Yes.
  2. Way more than $200.
  3. On the expensive side, but not by too much. However, this is talking as a U.S. player paying USD where we have one of the best deals in the world. The 140-orb pack in the U.S. costs 75 USD, which is about 64 EUR. The 140-orb pack in Europe is 80 EUR, which is about 25% more expensive (apparently, part of the mark-up is apparently due to taxes).
  4. Yes, for all of the reasons you listed as "yes". My only regrets were wasting some of my purchases on poor pulling strategies early in the game's lifetime before we figured out how the summon pool distribution worked.
  5. No. If buying orbs were cheating, then buying booster packs would be cheating in a collectable card game, and that's a rather ridiculous claim to make.

For reference on prices, based on the Gamepedia list of prices, the 140-orb pack is worth (percent is difference relative to USD when converted directly):

  • 74.99 USD
  • 79.99 EUR (93.60 USD, +25%)
  • 69.99 GBP (92.60 USD, +23%)
  • 119.99 AUD (89.08 USD, +19%)
  • 8800 JPY (78.30 USD, +4%)
  • 349.99 PLN (94.71 USD, +26%)
  • 262.50 BRL (68.16 USD, -9%)
  • 799.00 NOK (98.46 USD, +31%)
  • 588.00 HKD (74.91 USD, -0%)

In other words, use a proxy to make Nintendo think you're in Brazil and get a credit card that doesn't charge foreign transaction fees.

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