Restart SP glitch.

[XRay]

8 hours ago, Humanoid said:

About as likely as them abolishing the SP mechanic altogether. I wouldn't see a problem with that really.

That would be best in my opinion. I would add that to the suggestion too. It cannot hurt to ask.

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I dunno. Int System doesn't exactly sound like the "Is it a bug or a feature? Yes." type of company...

Then again, Nintendo at least does preserve most glitches in remasterings, remakes, and re-whatevers, so they at least have some level of glitch acceptance.

Even if they did keep it though, it'd have to be retooled heavily. For my example, Hard mode Lucius and Raven with 5 enemies on the highest SP multiplier before SP gains are lowered, 768 or something like that, made up something like 35% of a units maximum SP, not counting previous runs, and most of the units I gave SP to via the glitch ended in the high 4ks if I couldn't manage many kills with them, such as Leo and Mist, and 6k-7k if they could kill 4 enemies a run until the final run, where they kill 5 enemies and clear the map.

Maybe if they kept the glitch, retooled how SP multipliers stacked, and removed the stamina cost on the training maps we have in rotation...?

Sounds good. This is what I have in my draft so far.

Hi! Many in the Heroes community really enjoyed the recent SP glitch. Is it possible to consider officially implement the SP glitch as a feature? Or at least consider keeping the SP glitch as is? If so, it would be very much appreciated by many players, as grinding for SP is pretty boring, and speeding up the process makes it less tedious.

Since enemies are easier to kill in Special Training maps, implementing the SP glitch there would be the most beneficial. Here are some ideas that players came up with:
- When a Special Training map is beaten, players are given the option to automatically restart the map again for double SP rewards, so players can resort to auto battle and do not have to manually surrender to restart the map if they want a more hands free approach.
- It would be nice if SP gain remained at 768 per defeated enemy without going back down to 4 SP when the map restarts, so players do not have to quit the map and start all over going through restarts that have lower SP gains.
- It would be nice to remove the Stamina cost of Special Training maps, or at least remove it during the weekend, so newer players who do not have as much Stamina Potions can still enjoy the benefit.

Other ideas to make grinding SP easier include:
- Allow players to toggle Castle's EXP boost on or off. Toggling the EXP boost off allows players to grind lower difficulties of Special Training maps longer.
- In addition to the EXP boost, Castles can also give a boost to SP.
- Another idea is to remove SP costs entirely so units will automatically learn a skill once they inherit or have access to it. This removes SP grinding entirely, and it saves time for busier players to experience the game's more enjoyable activities.

Thank you!

If there are any more ideas, I can add it to the draft. That way, people can just copy and paste this draft instead of having to type up everything, and if they have something they disagree with, they can just delete it in the Feedback box.

Edited July 16, 2018 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

Then again, Nintendo at least does preserve most glitches in remasterings, remakes, and re-whatevers, so they at least have some level of glitch acceptance.

English localization issues aside (and no Maniac mode, which are already enough for me to not want to play the game), I refuse to play non-JP Path of Radiance unless I can have my forged Thunder tomes with 255 Crit again.

[Lewyn]

It really sucks I didn't get to really use it much, found out about it late Friday night, was out all saturday.  I got to do it on a few characters who aren't completed yet and will need that SP for sure, but man do I hate grinding SP.  I mean if you don't have a valor skill+doing it on double SP day it is excruciating.  I wish I got to max out all my 5 star sp, and not have to worry about those units ever again.  New better skill, NP, no grinding, just fodder the skill and learn it.  

Does anyone enjoy repetitious grinding of same maps over and over again for SP?  Maybe it would be best to just get rid of SP system all together.  You can learn whatever skills the unit has with no requirement.  Or maybe they learn it at certain levels or something, since we are going to take the unit to level 40 anyways.  I would say units should start at level 40 but then some people enjoy seeing their unit gain stats and such from level 1 to 40.  

 

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Does anyone enjoy repetitious grinding of same maps over and over again for SP?  Maybe it would be best to just get rid of SP system all together.  You can learn whatever skills the unit has with no requirement.  Or maybe they learn it at certain levels or something, since we are going to take the unit to level 40 anyways.  I would say units should start at level 40 but then some people enjoy seeing their unit gain stats and such from level 1 to 40.  

What next? Should we also get rid of grinding Hero Merit? Characters should just come with their Hero Merit maxed out and immediately pay out 5,000 feathers without the player needing to do anything?

The entire point of these systems is to slow down progression just enough such that enough players aren't complaining about having nothing to do.

[Tree]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

What next? Should we also get rid of grinding Hero Merit? Characters should just come with their Hero Merit maxed out and immediately pay out 5,000 feathers without the player needing to do anything?

The entire point of these systems is to slow down progression just enough such that enough players aren't complaining about having nothing to do.

I personally like hero merit because it lets me see how much I've used a character. Getting all the feathers at once would be boring. Training a unit to level 40 is also a reasonably fun activity (to me at least), however I do not like training exclusively for sp at all, ever. I currently have to wait to train units on double sp weekends so that they attain all of their base skills (and even the weekend bonus is not enough for some characters).

When I was following a guide that needed some skill inheritance, I had to wait for the weekend sp bonus and then use several stamina refills for each skill I needed. I had to do this for multiple skills on multiple characters. It was miserable. (It was like TT before I found autobattle.) Due to this glitch, I feel that I've gotten access to many new characters because I can fill out their skill sets, even replace some existing skills, and see how well they work before committing to using that unit a lot.

If sp worked like skill in the main games,  I think it would be a good mechanic. As it is currently, I wouldn't mind them removing it entirely. If they want to keep it, I personally would like the amount of sp increased. The castle upgrades could even be modified to include double sp.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

What next? Should we also get rid of grinding Hero Merit? Characters should just come with their Hero Merit maxed out and immediately pay out 5,000 feathers without the player needing to do anything?

The entire point of these systems is to slow down progression just enough such that enough players aren't complaining about having nothing to do.

Not at all, however there is a big difference.  Hero merit is just something most people take as it comes, they don't grind to max it out, there is no rush you'll eventually get there if you use the character.  That's a big difference from SP which is necessary just to unlock/learn skills of a character, that determines how it functions.  So if you are taking it to arena that week cause it is a bonus unit, you have to tediously grind to put on the skills and such.  It is absolutely tedious.  I get people who 'want something to do' (though I never understood that complaint, I mean more story chapters, GHB, tactic battles, are actually content that has meaning and isn't pure boredom like watching paint dry) however they will always have hero merit building ally support, figure out new ways to solve GHB and such.  

It is just a huge time waster that I really think few if any enjoy.  This isn't even like level grinding in some games where some enjoy seeing the stats grow and such, this is tediously replaying map after map after map at 6sp per kill without blessing (limited) or valor skill to learn stuff like Aether which is 750sp.  750!  My god, we aren't immortal, at least I'm not...and time is limited there are a million things I would rather do.  It sucks that for these units to function you are forced to grind SP though.  The worst is units that have terrible base kits (quite a few of the gen1 units) so you have to inherit a bunch of skills which have that 1.5x penalty on top of that.  

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Tree said:

The castle upgrades could even be modified to include double sp.

That would be really nice too.

As an additional suggestion, I would actually like the option of toggling the castle EXP bonus on and off. Since whether or not you gain SP from defeating enemies is dependent on the unit's level and the enemy's level, it would be nice to toggle the EXP bonus off so you can grind Special Training maps on the lower difficulties longer as the enemies are easier.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

there is no rush you'll eventually get there if you use the character.  That's a big difference from SP which is necessary just to unlock/learn skills of a character, that determines how it functions.

Leveling a unit from level 1 to level 40 through combat is typically enough to unlock all of its skills. Leveling a unit from level 1 to level 40 twice from 4-star rarity to 5-star rarity is typically enough to unlock all of it skills and still have 1,000-2,000 SP extra.

Grinding SP to teach a unit additional skills is hardly different from grinding Hero Merit to promote a unit. The only particular difference is that SP requires you to use that particular unit whereas Hero Merit requires you to use any unit that hasn't maxed their Hero Merit yet, but grind is still grind regardless of who you need to use.

 

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

however they will always have hero merit building ally support, figure out new ways to solve GHB and such.

You also gain SP when building ally support and solving Grand Hero Battles. My Tiki is sitting here with over 9,000 SP simply from being used to run the monthly infantry quest and my weekly Arena run.

 

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

This isn't even like level grinding in some games where some enjoy seeing the stats grow and such, this is tediously replaying map after map after map at 6sp per kill without blessing (limited) or valor skill to learn stuff like Aether which is 750sp.  750!

That's about 6 runs of a Special Training map, which typically will take me about 15 minutes.

If you haven't already found reusable strategies for each of the maps with their corresponding unit type (other than The Workout, which has no corresponding unit type), then it is worth your time to do so.

[Selena4Lyfe]

Looks like they fixed it.  A bummer, but at least I was able to get a few units a nice SP surplus.

[mampfoid]

46 minutes ago, Selena4Lyfe said:

Looks like they fixed it.  A bummer, but at least I was able to get a few units a nice SP surplus.

Wait until Friday, it seems like the glitch depends on the weekend multiplier. 

[De Geso]

Oh, THAT's what caused it! I was wondering why Narcian and Tiki were gaining 768 SP per kill lol. Didn't make the connection that I was restarting.

[Humanoid]

Just noticed there's now a notification saying this has been fixed for 2.7.1, although it hasn't forced an update yet. Dammit, why couldn't they wait another couple of days to fix it?

(No mention of compensation orbs either, not that any were expected)

[mampfoid]

Then better not update before the weekend. 

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Just noticed there's now a notification saying this has been fixed for 2.7.1, although it hasn't forced an update yet. Dammit, why couldn't they wait another couple of days to fix it?

(No mention of compensation orbs either, not that any were expected)

 

Just now, mampfoid said:

Then better not update before the weekend. 

My thoughts exactly.

[Raven]

2.7.1 will more than likely release on Friday, the same time as the new banner drops and the beginning of the double SP weekend.

They are not going to let the casual masses aware of such an abusive glitch the day before the next bonus SP weekend begins if it wasn't going to be patched in time for it.

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, Raven said:

2.7.1 will more than likely release on Friday, the same time as the new banner drops and the beginning of the double SP weekend.

They are not going to let the casual masses aware of such an abusive glitch the day before the next bonus SP weekend begins if it wasn't going to be patched in time for it.

But new units/banners come with an in-game update, not with an update of the application. 

[Raven]

2 hours ago, mampfoid said:

But new units/banners come with an in-game update, not with an update of the application. 

That's ultimately irrelevant. I'm simply saying I think the 2.7.1 update will come tomorrow, coincidentally the same time as the new units drop.

They won't draw attention to the exploit if it wasn't going to be patched by the next time it's able to be exploited.

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, Raven said:

That's ultimately irrelevant. I'm simply saying I think the 2.7.1 update will come tomorrow, coincidentally the same time as the new units drop.

Well, play store is offering already an update now. 

[Raven]

1 hour ago, mampfoid said:

Well, play store is offering already an update now. 

I was hoping I'd be wrong and they'd hold off the actual 2.7.1 update. Is it 2.7.1?

[Roflolxp54]

1 hour ago, Raven said:

I was hoping I'd be wrong and they'd hold off the actual 2.7.1 update. Is it 2.7.1?

The update is already out and you’d be forced to update anyways if you want to pull any of the New Heroes coming in a matter of hours.

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, Raven said:

I was hoping I'd be wrong and they'd hold off the actual 2.7.1 update. Is it 2.7.1?

Yes:

[Alexmender]

I put my phone to auto upload when charging so RIP glitch abuse. Oh well, I'll have to train Cherche in the good ol' way of Training map spamming. At least Camilla has the TT so I don't need to worry about her. 

[mampfoid]

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

I put my phone to auto upload when charging so RIP glitch abuse. Oh well, I'll have to train Cherche in the good ol' way of Training map spamming. At least Camilla has the TT so I don't need to worry about her. 

You could downgrade the app version from an APP mirror. 

[Alexmender]

21 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

You could downgrade the app version from an APP mirror. 

I use an IPhone to play so I'm stuck at 2.7.1, then again I feel like the update will be forced for everyone after the Feh Channel unless IS screws up again.

[mampfoid]

RIP this glitch, the app forces to update, no chance to use it this weekend.