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so how was Nah born?


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Like does nowi lay eggs or does she give live birth? also when a manakete is born are they born in dragon form or not? I'm curious.

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If Laguz are anything to go by, Janaff says the Hawks haven't hatched from eggs for a quite a number of generations, though Nealuchi does say he remembers Naesala with egg on his feathers, that was probably just an old man waxing nostalgic. Believing Janaff, the Manaketes are likely mammalian live births as well.

As for the form on birth, not sure of this. I could see it matching the mother's form at the birth, or just being in its humanoid form.

And to speak on Laguz/Taguel/Wolfskin/Kitsune/Manakete sexual relations as a whole, between two individuals, sex while shifted and unshifted should both be viable. Maybe not while shifted for the Manaketes anymore though, since their dragon form is related to their infertility.

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11 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

You'll learn that when you're older.

I'm old enough thank you very much. I know how babies are made I'm just curious if manaketes follow those same rules

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I imagine Manaketes are mammalian since they can mate with humans.  You'd have to be at least somewhat genetically close to produce anything resembling viable offspring, after all.

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11 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I imagine Manaketes are mammalian since they can mate with humans.  You'd have to be at least somewhat genetically close to produce anything resembling viable offspring, after all.

According to real-life biology, yes. But Fire Emblem doesn't operate on those laws.

Nor does it say enough to give you an official answer as to whether dragons in Awakening give birth like mammals or lay eggs.

Radiant Dawn mentioned that Almedha (and later Ena) gave birth, which suggests the former; but dragon Laguz aren't the same as Manaketes, no matter how similar they are.

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48 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They list their gender as male, so are you implying their going to hit up Nowi? 

I have no idea how you reached that conclusion lmao.

 

But yes since they are breeding with a human I assume it's the same way.

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27 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I imagine Manaketes are mammalian since they can mate with humans.  You'd have to be at least somewhat genetically close to produce anything resembling viable offspring, after all.

I mean, if you want to bring proper biology into this, species need to be genetically almost identical to produce viable offspring, with the small variation only existing to ensure actual genetic variation within the species. Like-species(IE tigers and lions, horses and donkeys), which are similar but have clear, divergent genes, can only produce infertile/unviable offspring.

But Fire Emblem's a video game and biology doesn't have to apply. I've accepted this ever since Dragon Ball Z, where monkey based saiyans can have viable offspring with humans, which are apes.

Tellius actually might have tried to explain this, though, since Laguz and Beorc share a relatively recent common ancestor, and Branded might be the in-universe explanation for "unviability" of offspring.

Edited by Slumber
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In Archanea, Dragons sealed their powers inside dragonstones to avoid degeneration and taked on human form/turned into Manaketes. So I guess it's likely that before they became Manaketes, a dragon child was always in dragon form since they had no reason to have a human form. 

Now that they have a human form I would assume that the manakete baby is born in human form for convenience and that Manaketes probably give birth like Dragon Laguz (even though Dragon Laguz and Manaketes are different). 

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

If Laguz are anything to go by, Janaff says the Hawks haven't hatched from eggs for a quite a number of generations, though Nealuchi does say he remembers Naesala with egg on his feathers, that was probably just an old man waxing nostalgic. Believing Janaff, the Manaketes are likely mammalian live births as well.

As for the form on birth, not sure of this. I could see it matching the mother's form at the birth, or just being in its humanoid form.

And to speak on Laguz/Taguel/Wolfskin/Kitsune/Manakete sexual relations as a whole, between two individuals, sex while shifted and unshifted should both be viable. Maybe not while shifted for the Manaketes anymore though, since their dragon form is related to their infertility.

I took Janaff's comment to be a figure of speech, but I can also see shifted sex to be a common laguz kink, so idk. There are some Texts From the Emblem that imply Naesala and Leanne are kinky birdies, I wouldn't put it past them lol. Although I wonder what happens if there's a conception from that...

Where does it say manakete dragon forms make them infertile?

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1 minute ago, Dragoncat said:

Where does it say manakete dragon forms make them infertile?

I didn't mean that exactly. Infertility came about the same time as the degeneration which forced them into humanoid form, which wouldn't suggest to me that it'd be conducive to trying to produce children.

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15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I didn't mean that exactly. Infertility came about the same time as the degeneration which forced them into humanoid form, which wouldn't suggest to me that it'd be conducive to trying to produce children.

I know of the degeneration but I don't think it says anywhere that infertility is involved at all.

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6 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I know of the degeneration but I don't think it says anywhere that infertility is involved at all.

Mystery of the Emblem

Perfect Ending Timeline

Credits: AceNoctali

Around -4000
– Dragon tribe’s golden age; an advanced civilization under the rule of the Divine Dragon tribe is built on the whole continent.

Around -1000
– Decline of the dragon tribe.
Signs of degeneration, fall of birth rate.
– By the elders’ advice, part of the dragon tribe takes human form.

Without the birth rate fall, which would mean more infertility, there is less reason for Naga to concede the world to humanity. Dragonkind would still not be able reproduce as fast as humanity, but it wouldn't enter the terminal state it does where all we see is mostly old men dragons. And if there wasn't this decline, Tiki, Nah, and Nowi wouldn't be quite as special, since there should then be other young dragons around.

Sure Kurthnaga is apparently the youngest Goldoan at 100+, but I guess with the slower rate of maturity and living in a desert landscape, the Goldoans aren't in a rush to have that many kids. Not to mention Ena was pregnant for over 20 years (this seems like poor writing to me with how long it was, but this is besides the point).

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15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not to mention Ena was pregnant for over 20 years (this seems like poor writing to me with how long it was, but this is besides the point).

Agreed, that's really crappy writing imo...

But thanks for that timeline thing, I never saw it.

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1 hour ago, Dragoncat said:

Agreed, that's really crappy writing imo...

But thanks for that timeline thing, I never saw it.

SF has this page for every timeline prior to Awakening. A separate page has the SoV timeline.

As for Ena's pregnancy, it does make some sense that a species that lives longer will have a longer gestation period. The problem is that it Kurthnaga has an apparent age of 17 (he looks younger than that to me, but oh well), and is over 100. The human gestation period is 9 months, it feels to me that while a pregnancy in the years is appropriate for a Dragon Laguz, over 20 is off given how fast Kurthnaga has matured.

Given Tiki is 1100+ in SD and yet a five year old, her being in Naga's womb for 20 would actually be undercutting it I think, a pure Archanean Manakete pregnancy should last much longer. 

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Not to mention Ena was pregnant for over 20 years (this seems like poor writing to me with how long it was, but this is besides the point).

Not necessarily. Rajaion only died about three years before Ena gave birth to his son, and the manner of his death (having the Galdr of Rebirth sung to him, which we saw earlier restoring trees to life and making them overflow with pollen) suggests that in those last few moments before he died Ena could have taken some of his... pollen... as well.

Then, too, it's hard to believe that the Black Knight could have struck Ena hard enough to knock her unconscious without also terminating her pregnancy, if she had been pregnant in PoR chapter 27.

Still, whether a dragon's gestation period is three years or twenty, it's definitely much longer than a human's.

Edited by Paper Jam
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1 hour ago, Paper Jam said:

Not necessarily. Rajaion only died about three years before Ena gave birth to his son, and the manner of his death (having the Galdr of Rebirth sung to him, which we saw earlier restoring trees to life and making them overflow with pollen) suggests that in those last few moments before he died Ena could have taken some of his... pollen... as well.

If he was that weak I think sex was the last thing on his mind...let alone would he even be able to manage it? And in dragon form nonetheless, while she was in human form? Kinky xD

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As for Ena's pregnancy, it does make some sense that a species that lives longer will have a longer gestation period. The problem is that it Kurthnaga has an apparent age of 17 (he looks younger than that to me, but oh well), and is over 100. The human gestation period is 9 months, it feels to me that while a pregnancy in the years is appropriate for a Dragon Laguz, over 20 is off given how fast Kurthnaga has matured.

Maybe the aging slows at puberty? So they age like regular humans until like 15ish, then they're teenagers for decades.

Not to mention how much it would SUCK being pregnant for that long. Probably nothing to Ena, but still.

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27 minutes ago, Scoot said:

I like to go the Pokemon route and explain it as "we found a egg, don't know where it came from!"

They know where it came from but they're not going to tell a kid.

Alternatively somehow they never found out, and they still think babies are delivered by pelippers. But the former is more likely.

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4 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

If he was that weak I think sex was the last thing on his mind...let alone would he even be able to manage it? And in dragon form nonetheless, while she was in human form? Kinky xD

In public! Everyone had to have had their eyes on the tragedy. -EGH! The thought of this is TOO MUCH! SEPHIRAN TAKE THE THOUGHTS AWAY!

...This is why I have to assume a 20+ year pregnancy, the alternative is much worse.

And to speak of possible Laguz kink, well Nailah-Tibarn battle convo anyone? Was it written so dirtily because the developers knew it'd be impossible to happen naturally in the course of the battle?

Spoiler

Although I can see one getting it without hacking. Find the Rescue Staff hidden on the map, pass it to unpromoted Mist or Rhys (a Saint Rhys is best), have someone who flies ferry them over the woods, and perhaps have Haar slaughter anything that might harm your Staffer over there before you drop them off. Then, with high Magic and Tibarn hopefully moving just right, Rescue him over the woods and hope he targets Nailah. Otherwise, see about using Rescue on him with your Staffer one space northeast or northwest of Nailah, since the default space Tibarn will be moved to is south of the Staffer and thus this will put him adjacent to Nailah. Provided she attacks, then Tibarn will be forced into battle with her since enemies move before NPCs. If the issue is getting Tibarn Rescued over the woods, well burn another charge before the Staffer is airlifted to move him closer.

This is a whole lot of effort for a little conversation though, not worth seriously doing at all.

 

Considering the Nah topic again, she being a half-kete does complicate and affect her birth a little, since the humanity should dilute her draconic powers and whatnot. Nonetheless, why is it that when they want them to, mixed breeds can be just as seemingly strong as full bloods?

Ninian and Sophia had this conundrum, one can shift, the other can't, but it had a potential excuse in Ninian living beyond the Gate in a world friendlier to dragons. Which then begs the answered question if she actually knew she was a half-blood and why then do Nils and her never mention this to HEL? You'd think Nils would try to make themselves slightly more relatable after Ninian's death and bring it up. You'd also expect in a world of dragons for them to pick up on a subtle difference between them and their many full dragon counterparts.

The only reason Nah is so strong as a halfling, is because there are no male Manaketes to make her with. At least Archanean dragons being godly strong makes the survival of the strength overcoming human genes believable. The Kitsune/Taguel/Wolfskin have no such excuse of being so powerful I would say.

Since there is no marriage mechanic, and RD doesn't toss in a Branded who can formshift, the Branded are allowed to stay strong from being mixed, but sans the full powers of Laguz. They are closer to what at least the beasties to follow them should be, if perhaps a little too physically Beorc-like.

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Quote

If he was that weak I think sex was the last thing on his mind...let alone would he even be able to manage it? And in dragon form nonetheless, while she was in human form? Kinky xD

 

Who said Ena needed to have sex with Rajaion to get pregnant from him? She was well within earshot of the Galdr of Rebirth when the herons sang it to Rajaion (being cuddled up to Rajaion at the time), and we already knew what that Galdr had done to the trees of Serenes Forest the first time the herons sang it.

In short, Ena's pregnancy might have been a side-effect of the Galdr of Rebirth.

And in any case, Rajaion changed back into human form before he died.

Edited by Paper Jam
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Oh, Tibarn and Nailah can hook up, but they won't conceive. Genes won't mix. No flying wolves.

8 hours ago, Paper Jam said:

 

 

Who said Ena needed to have sex with Rajaion to get pregnant from him? She was well within earshot of the Galdr of Rebirth when the herons sang it to Rajaion (being cuddled up to Rajaion at the time), and we already knew what that Galdr had done to the trees of Serenes Forest the first time the herons sang it.

In short, Ena's pregnancy might have been a side-effect of the Galdr of Rebirth.

And in any case, Rajaion changed back into human form before he died.

Trees are plants though. I mean I GUESS it's plausable, but...yeah, unless the galdr also caused all the male forest critters to...jizz, I doubt it.

Ena and Rajaion would have enjoyed a romantic romp before Ashnard captured him. Like, really shortly before, because he didn't seem to know he was a father when he died. And Ena wasn't showing either.

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And the embryo survived the blow that the Black Knight inflicted on Ena near the end of PoR... how?

Remember, it nearly killed Ena, let alone an embryo.

Edited by Paper Jam
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