Power creep discussion

[Hilda]

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You don't need power creep to do that.

Olivia is the character people are talking about from the most recent banner, but the only unit that is in any way power creep on it is Maribelle. That's because Olivia introduces something new to the game, but not necessarily something better than other options.

But i dont see the fuss, Olivia didnt powercreep anyone. Same weapon as Axezure just a sword, she gets more mobility for herself and for the team (guidance etc) but the price she pays for that is being easy one shot by archers and easier baited if she runs in a mixed Team.

Maribelle on the other hand clearly dethroned Elise as the most offensiv healer, the trade off is she has even less bulk then Elise and flexibility. She cant run any form of Ploys with her RES stat... I dont see that as a clear powercreep

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Olivia didnt powercreep anyone.

I literally just said this.

The fuss is the fact that Olivia is the first flying dancer in the regular summoning pool and comes with a unique weapon to boost her score and a decent effect on that weapon.

 

2 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Same weapon as Axezure just a sword, she gets more mobility for herself and for the team (guidance etc) but the price she pays for that is being easy one shot by archers and easier baited if she runs in a mixed Team.

The AI cannot bait the player.

 

4 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Maribelle on the other hand clearly dethroned Elise as the most offensiv healer, the trade off is she has even less bulk then Elise and flexibility. She cant run any form of Ploys with her RES stat... I dont see that as a clear powercreep

Bulk means nothing for player-phase staff users that never get counterattacked.

27 Res is below average for a staff user, but it's still higher than the median in general, and Maribelle can run Spd/Res 2 (which is found on Nanna) instead of Atk/Spd 2 while still having higher offenses than Elise and a still-respectable 29 Res.

[Xenomata]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

That depends on what you have in your Barracks. I got two or three anti armor units of each color so green armor units are the least of my concern. Nowi is bigger threat to me, although by the time I run out of hard counters to deal with her, I bring out the big guns like Firesweep archers/healers to completely shut down counter attacks or Blade mages to one shot things.

Ironically, I hold my Soleil in such high regard, I actively hesitate picking her even when the enemy has 4 armors, including the Armors I specifically had in mind when building her, perfect for reaping kills from...

I suppose it isn't a universally true statement, yes. A person could easily have more trouble dealing with Reinhardt, another will need to find ways to counter Zelgius or Black Knight. By the time a single person has a counter to each of them, they may just gain another trouble unit because we get 8 or so new units a month, and they just released a Lance whose gimmick is triggering every one of their attacks from a dual-phase Brave Weapon at once, like having Desperation on both phases.

Then again, one could say that Firesweep and Dazzling Staff hard counters everything... maybe that's why we haven't seen much word of a new Firesweep weapon lately...

[XRay]

32 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Then again, one could say that Firesweep and Dazzling Staff hard counters everything... maybe that's why we haven't seen much word of a new Firesweep weapon lately...

Firesweep Daggers would be amazing. It would instantly push dagger units to top tier status.

1 hour ago, Azuni said:

Where did you get this notion? Practically all of the whales I talk to on a daily basis say Ayra is the superior choice still, most likely because:

-Has access to Regnal Astra (doubly useful as it scores high, yet is still destructive with a low CD)

-Has solid physical bulk to stomach a counter hit between her attacks (presumably using the double Regnal Astra build)

Ignoring scoring, Karla is the better Player Phase unit in terms of performance; Karla without buffs rivals buffed Blade mages.

 

Karla +Spd, -Res

Vassal's Blade, Luna

Swift Sparrow, Desperation

Speed +3

Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury

Player Phase 227:24:22

 

Ayra +Spd, -Res

Ayra's Blade, Regnal Astra

Swift Sparrow, Desperation

Speed +3

Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury

Player Phase 204:14:55

 

If you want a Distant Counter red unit, dragons are much better for that purpose in my opinion.

[DehNutCase]

34 minutes ago, XRay said:

Firesweep Daggers would be amazing. It would instantly push dagger units to top tier status.

Not really, Firesweep is great when it's good, but it's also a really bad silver weapon when it's not. (And you don't get to control when it's great outside of packing lots of turn-count control---gravity, raw mobility, 'Brave Ike' type heroes that stall the line, janky stuff like obstruct, etc..)

 

-blade gets countered about as often as Firesweep weapons, because most things get OHKOd, and tomes have a brave weapon option on top of that, even if it's locked to 2 units.

 

Bows have both brave effect and firesweep effect, as well as effectiveness to shore up half its weakness. Fliers and Horses threaten Firesweeps the most, because it's mobility that counters things like dazzling staff and firesweep, thanks to their below average ORKO potential.

Edit: Offensive teams like mine never have trouble with healers or firesweepers for this reason----I mean, technically offensive teams like mine never have trouble with any team, but they beat every team for different reasons.

 

Mind, daggers aren't terrible, thanks to being 2-ranged, but they have some obscenely strong competition.

Edited July 24, 2018 by DehNutCase

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Not really, Firesweep is great when it's good, but it's also a really bad silver weapon when it's not. (And you don't get to control when it's great outside of packing lots of turn-count control---gravity, raw mobility, 'Brave Ike' type heroes that stall the line, janky stuff like obstruct, etc..)

-blade gets countered about as often as Firesweep weapons, because most things get OHKOd, and tomes have a brave weapon option on top of that, even if it's locked to 2 units.

Bows have both brave effect and firesweep effect, as well as effectiveness to shore up half its weakness. (Fliers and Horses threaten Firesweeps the most, because it's mobility that counters things like dazzling staff and firesweep, thanks to their below average ORKO potential. Edit: Offensive teams like mine never have trouble with healers or firesweepers for this reason.)

 

Mind, daggers aren't terrible, thanks to being 2-ranged, but they have some obscenely strong competition.

Firesweep can take its time dealing with bulky units. Poison Strike-Poison Strike can whittle down bulky units fairly quickly.

Firesweep Dagger is way better than Firesweep Bow on a Player Phase team. Mass debuff is better than having flier effectiveness since the unit can immediately capitalize on the debuffs with a Dancer/Singer.

Brave ranged Weapons falls out of use in higher score ranges since you cannot always rely on opponents giving you free pot shots to activate Desperation, whereas Firesweep works anywhere.

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

Firesweep can take its time dealing with bulky units. Poison Strike-Poison Strike can whittle down bulky units fairly quickly.

Firesweep Dagger is way better than Firesweep Bow on a Player Phase team. Mass debuff is better than having flier effectiveness since the unit can immediately capitalize on the debuffs with a Dancer/Singer.

Brave ranged Weapons falls out of use in higher score ranges since you cannot always rely on opponents giving you free pot shots to activate Desperation, whereas Firesweep works anywhere.

Firesweep does not work everywhere, is my point. Firesweep is a 10/10 when it works and like a 6/10 or 5/10 when it doesn't---it'll still contribute, but the difference between its ceiling and floor is very large.

A Firesweep weapon is not going to help when your team is getting ran down by 4 horses, because the horse team doesn't mind losing units in order to make you lose yours. Dazzle gravity helps, if the horse team is positioned right, but that requires either a willingness to accept 'good enough' (basically reroll until you win, even if you don't reroll that often), or else a high understanding of AI manipulation.

 

I mentioned brave weapons not because of desperation users---only Cordelia on my team runs Desperation, because a Slaying Refine & her naturally good single round bulk means she's very consistent at surviving one round---but because of high Atk units like Rein who don't need 4 hits, and because of Brave Lyn who doesn't need desperation (because Sacae's Blessing prevents counters to begin with).

Brave weapons will always score around 8/10 or 9/10 regardless of enemy team---against immobile, bulky teams, it's because you can stack up and get every buff while forcing the opponent to spread out with mobility, against mobile, squishy teams, it's because they 2HKO with very high consistency.

 

Regarding debuffs being better than effective damage...

Killing one unit outright is worse than debuffing the team? When the debuffer might not ORKO?

[Hilda]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I literally just said this.

The fuss is the fact that Olivia is the first flying dancer in the regular summoning pool and comes with a unique weapon to boost her score and a decent effect on that weapon.

 

The AI cannot bait the player.

 

Bulk means nothing for player-phase staff users that never get counterattacked.

27 Res is below average for a staff user, but it's still higher than the median in general, and Maribelle can run Spd/Res 2 (which is found on Nanna) instead of Atk/Spd 2 while still having higher offenses than Elise and a still-respectable 29 Res.

push atk/spd is a better offensiv passiv for them in my opinion, i use it on Elise with Live to serve Seal.

[Xenomata]

4 minutes ago, Hilda said:

push atk/spd is a better offensiv passiv for them in my opinion, i use it on Elise with Live to serve Seal.

Here's a possible chain of events to go over.

PP1: You attack with Elise, who has Atk/Spd Push and Live to Serve SS, maybe cavalry buffs. Get the kill. Take damage after battle.

PP2: You heal an ally to get Elise back to full HP to trigger Atk/Spd Push.

PP3: Repeat PP1.

Here is the alternative.

PP1: You attack with Elise, who has Atk/Spd 2, either Attack +3 or Speed +3 SS, maybe Cavalry buffs. Get the kill.

PP2: Repeat PP1

PP3: Repeat PP1

[XRay]

30 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

A Firesweep weapon is not going to help when your team is getting ran down by 4 horses, because the horse team doesn't mind losing units in order to make you lose yours. Dazzle gravity helps, if the horse team is positioned right, but that requires either a willingness to accept 'good enough' (basically reroll until you win, even if you don't reroll that often), or else a high understanding of AI manipulation.

Braves do not either. Firesweep pack enough punch to kill ranged ponies, and melee ponies are hardly a threat to anyone.

30 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

but because of high Atk units like Rein who don't need 4 hits

Brave units cannot stop counter attacks and have issues with coverage. A good Player Phase team can go without a Brave or Desperation nuke, but a good Player Phase team cannot go without a Firesweep nuke. Firesweep has universal coverage and that is more important than raw performance.

30 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

because of Brave Lyn who doesn't need desperation (because Sacae's Blessing prevents counters to begin with).

Once you encounter dragons and armor mages frequently enough, Sacae's Blessing becomes a lot less useful. Firesweep-Poison Strike-Poison Strike got enough power to kill most things that die to Brave nukes, and can also take on super bulky units that can counter Brave nukes.

30 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Regarding debuffs being better than effective damage...

Killing one unit outright is worse than debuffing the team? When the debuffer might not ORKO?

I guess that depends on what you face. I face armor units frequently enough that taking out fliers is not that big of a priority. My BH!Lyn has little problem taking out most infantry, so not killing fliers in one hit is not a big deal if I use ASS!Linde instead.

Edited July 24, 2018 by XRay

[redlight]

Brave dagger and firesweep dagger 

Literally what daggers need that's feasible at the moment

Edited July 24, 2018 by silveraura25

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

If you want a Distant Counter red unit, dragons are much better for that purpose in my opinion.

If you want a mixed-phase non-armor red unit, you're going to want to use Ayra or Karla, not a dragon.

Karla has the better player phase between the two. Ayra has the better enemy phase.

 

25 minutes ago, Hilda said:

push atk/spd is a better offensiv passiv for them in my opinion, i use it on Elise with Live to serve Seal.

Push Atk/Spd doesn't work more than once on an offensive staff user.

Live to Serve is a 160-SP Sacred Seal that prevents you from running a Ploy in the Sacred Seal slot. Live to Serve also forces you to spend a turn to heal and forces you to have a second unit engage in combat and forces you to have that second unit take damage between every round of combat the staff user takes, and that's simply not reliable.

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Braves do not either. Firesweep pack enough punch to kill ranged ponies, and melee ponies are hardly a threat to anyone.

Braves don't kill horses? In what world does Firesweep kill anything that brave weapons don't? At best, Firesweep is 2x hits from a high atk/spd unit. At worst, Braves is 2x hits from a high atk unit. At best, braves are 4x hits from a high atk/high spd unit.

And, while Camus and Xander are basically non-existent past a certain score range, Sigurd, Siegbert, Cordelia (Cavalry)* etc. definitely exist. Firesweeps are all physical at the moment, and quite a lot of horses have high speed and high physical bulk. This means they're both threatening on player phase if they're in range to attack, and hard to ORKO 

*Cordelia has 41 hp, 28 def, and 38 speed. This is trivial for a brave user and nightmarish for a Firesweeper.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Brave units cannot stop counter attacks and have issues with coverage. A good Player Phase team can go without a Brave or Desperation nuke, but a good Player Phase team cannot go without a Firesweep nuke. Firesweep has universal coverage and that is more important than raw performance.

Dead people don't counter attack. Brave weapon has built in desperation and brash assault that's active at all hp and can be stacked with speed. Even in the worst case, Savage Blow & Hardy Bearing can be brought in to chip down particularly difficult units. (I personally don't recommend this because it's the same as using Firesweep, you strengthen some matchups at the cost of making your all around matchups weaker.)

 

A team with no firesweeper sacrifices ease of use for consistency---my arena binge lineup of Flying!Azura/Flying!Cordelia/Tome!Reinhardt/Brave!Lyn* had no firesweeper at all, and they were all running level 1 A-slots at the time. I didn't lose a single unit in my 30 or so arena fights I used that team in.

The trick is that they traded individual unit coverage for team type coverage. Each of them, alone, had glaring holes in unit coverage, but all of them covered all teams at a reasonable level.

Cordelia had Galeforce, as an example. This wasn't for scoring, this was for team coverage. In terms of unit coverage Galeforce is an empty slot. In terms of covering teams Galeforce crushes mobile teams because mobility necessarily costs BST, meaning you don't need as much skill-slots devoted to combat to fight them.

 

*Edit: Note, this is not a good team. Elincia should've been in Cordelia's place, but she didn't have the merges to fight the same level of armors. Cordelia had 8 merges on Elincia.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Once you encounter dragons and armor mages frequently enough, Sacae's Blessing becomes a lot less useful. Firesweep-Poison Strike-Poison Strike got enough power to kill most things that die to Brave nukes, and can also take on super bulky units that can counter Brave nukes.

I fight dragons all the time. They die because they have neither high mobility nor armor BST nor armor level B-slots. No dragon kills any of my units in one round on offense*, and most of them die in one round on defense. Dragons are Bow Lyn's weakest matchup, but the rest of the team more than cover the slack.

*Reinhardt might to green dragons, I guess. Every other color he's fine because his bulk is really good for tanking dragons.

Same thing for armor mages---thanks to my ability to separate low mobility teams, none of them quite has the BST to 1v1 my units, since I'll have buffs and they won't.

 

The biggest problem with armor teams is that, for an armor to be threatening, they need 4 B-slot skills. Bold Fighter, Vengeful Fight/QR, Cancel Affinity, and Vantage. If they don't have all four skills in one unit then at least one of my units will kill them, whether during defense---Reinhardt easily 1v1s a non-bold fighter W!Tharja on defense---or on offense---Reinhardt crushes W!Tharja on offense in almost all cases. Armor!Lyn suffers from low defense, meaning Cordelia ORKOs even without a special, so long as Cordelia has buffs and Lyn doesn't---Reinhardt also has a reasonable chance of surviving one round depending on B-slot and special choice on armored Lyn, meaning I can afford to chip her into ORKO range if necessary.

Armored!Henry doesn't get CA, and thus---now that we have Flying Olivia---gets crushed by TA Flying!Olivia in the dancer slot over Flying!Azura. (Blue units are covered by the strength of the Cordelia + Reinhardt pair.)

 

Basically: There is a point where units get enough BST that braves aren't functional, but no defense team can reach that point because a mobile offense team requires low-mobility teams to 4v1 every single fight, and high mobility teams don't have the raw stats.

I came to this conclusion because my team was using level 1 A-slots during my arena binge and still had no issues crushing every team comp, meaning at +10 all units versus +10 all units the match-ups get easier, not harder.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I guess that depends on what you face. I face armor units frequently enough that taking out fliers is not that big of a priority. My BH!Lyn has little problem taking out most infantry, so not killing fliers in one hit is not a big deal if I use ASS!Linde instead.

Sort of.

(I definitely see where you're coming from.)

It's just that I demand my team to be able to cover every single possible team, not just the 'meta' teams. Like, if armor did have a way to get enough BST or skill-slots to render brave weapons inoperable, I'll definitely have to switch to Firesweep---because there's no point going for raw coverage if there's a lineup that straight up kills yours---but they can't right now, so I take the more general weapon over the hard counter weapon.

Edited July 24, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Hilda]

57 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you want a mixed-phase non-armor red unit, you're going to want to use Ayra or Karla, not a dragon.

Karla has the better player phase between the two. Ayra has the better enemy phase.

 

Push Atk/Spd doesn't work more than once on an offensive staff user.

Live to Serve is a 160-SP Sacred Seal that prevents you from running a Ploy in the Sacred Seal slot. Live to Serve also forces you to spend a turn to heal and forces you to have a second unit engage in combat and forces you to have that second unit take damage between every round of combat the staff user takes, and that's simply not reliable.

I am sorry but i use all my units in combat not only Elise, so Push Atk/SPD is for me very good. There is no forcing. Elise job is to take out the most annoying unit my Team might struggle to handle. Push Atk/SPD does that very well

[Ice Dragon]

30 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I came to this conclusion because my team was using level 1 A-slots during my arena binge and still had no issues crushing every team comp, meaning at +10 all units versus +10 all units the match-ups get easier, not harder.

You're using +~5 merged units against +~0 merged armors. To simulate a match between +10 units, you'd need to drop all skills that add +1 Atk per level to level -3 (that's "negative three") and unequip all skills that add +2 Atk per level.

Add 1 Atk back if you fight at weapon triangle advantage, remove 1 additional Atk if you fight at weapon triangle disadvantage, and remove 2 additional Atk if you're fighting an opponent on a fortification tile.

 

Also, any enemy armor not running Distant Counter or Close Counter in either the weapon slot or passive A slot is disqualified unless they are running a Death Blow + Bold Fighter set.

[DehNutCase]

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You're using +~5 merged units against +~0 merged armors. To simulate a match between +10 units, you'd need to drop all skills that add +1 Atk per level to level -3 (that's "negative three") and unequip all skills that add +2 Atk per level.

Add 1 Atk back if you fight at weapon triangle advantage, remove 1 additional Atk if you fight at weapon triangle disadvantage, and remove 2 additional Atk if you're fighting an opponent on a fortification tile.

 

Also, any enemy armor not running Distant Counter or Close Counter in either the weapon slot or passive A slot is disqualified unless they are running a Death Blow + Bold Fighter set.

The armors floored at +0, peaked around +8 at least.

 

Effie from one of the matches.

 

Edit:

And this is a +10 +Atk/-Hp Tharja, I think.

 

She really needed Bold Fighter QR Bonfire, I think, rather than Venge + Ploy + Ignis. (I mean, it wouldn't have helped versus my particular lineup, given how blue heavy it was. But QR Bold-Fighter feels really strong for someone with her spread.)

Edited July 24, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

The armors floored at +0, peaked around +8 at least.

In other words, in order to actually normalize it so you have accurate +10 vs. +10 match-ups, you really need to just have +10's against +10's.

 

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

I am sorry but i use all my units in combat not only Elise, so Push Atk/SPD is for me very good. There is no forcing. Elise job is to take out the most annoying unit my Team might struggle to handle. Push Atk/SPD does that very well

I mean, yeah, if you only ever need Elise to fight one round of combat, sure, that's literally what Atk/Spd Push is for.

However, I use Elise to Gravity stall for multiple turns in a row (typically about 4) while her teammates clean up, and would prefer consistent combat performance instead of a stellar first round that falls off.

Regardless, as I've already mentioned, running Atk/Spd Push with Live to Serve prevents you from running a Ploy in the Sacred Seal slot in the first place, and running a Ploy in the passive C slot gives up your ability to run something like Hone Cavalry, which is generally more effective than a Ploy when on a 2-pairs or 4-of-a-kind team.

[DehNutCase]

5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In other words, in order to actually normalize it so you have accurate +10 vs. +10 match-ups, you really need to just have +10's against +10's.

I mean, yeah. But I figured it was a pretty accurate representation because my combat was sandbagged but the 'worst-case' scenario was more or less the same, in that I do see high merged units with reasonable IVs and skill sets.

Basically, my viewpoint remained more or less the same in that I don't see how more BST is supposed to help armor teams against a team that splits them up for free by having better mobility. Merges just don't do anything to the main issue of an armor team on defense, and armor march just gives them a giant weak spot that I took advantage of in a lot of my matches---and even with march it'll take a really strange map for me to get out maneuvered.

 

We can revisit this once I get my team +10'd (I have more than enough spare feathers, but not enough copies), of course, but that'll be a while.

 

 

Team-wise, I definitely felt the weakness to M!Grima--two of him on a team with both running Vantage would force me to lose at least one unit to clear, unless Cordelia happened to be able to get easy enough wins to fight through ward armor stacks on the other two for Savage Blow, but that's a team-comp thing.

[Kazuya]

My take on Power Creep: It's always going to happen in these types of games...gambling games, that is. You have to make something people are willing to speed crazy amounts of money on, even though there is no guarantee for it because it's gambling. This has always existed too, Hector in 1.0 was very damn rare and very damn broken. 

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

It's always going to happen in these types of games...gambling games, that is.

No it doesn't. Collectable card games can survive for decades without introducing power creep by using other methods to provide incentives to buy more packs (often by putting older cards out of rotation for official tournament play).

[Hilda]

48 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In other words, in order to actually normalize it so you have accurate +10 vs. +10 match-ups, you really need to just have +10's against +10's.

 

I mean, yeah, if you only ever need Elise to fight one round of combat, sure, that's literally what Atk/Spd Push is for.

However, I use Elise to Gravity stall for multiple turns in a row (typically about 4) while her teammates clean up, and would prefer consistent combat performance instead of a stellar first round that falls off.

Regardless, as I've already mentioned, running Atk/Spd Push with Live to Serve prevents you from running a Ploy in the Sacred Seal slot in the first place, and running a Ploy in the passive C slot gives up your ability to run something like Hone Cavalry, which is generally more effective than a Ploy when on a 2-pairs or 4-of-a-kind team.

I run Elise in a mixed Team

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Hilda said:

I run Elise in a mixed Team

As I said, you do you if it works, but that doesn't change the fact that Maribelle is strictly better than Elise at everything relevant except Ploy support, which she can still do.

[Lewyn]

I am going to now lay out the worse cases of power creep in the game's history, not in any particular order.

- Legendary Ike > Ike.  So we got regular Ike, same weapon, a special 4CD version of Aether, more bulk/stats, same movement weapon type.  Just made old Ike obsolete, I guess those steroids helped.

- Zelgius > Black Knight.  What happens when the Black Knight removes his helmet?  He gets more stats, and can warp around as well.  He still has Black Luna and Alondite.  

- Bridal Tharja > Tharja.  Always a bridesmaid never a bride, until now!  I guess true love does bring out the best in people, old single Tharja is just worse in every way despite being super similar.

- Fallen Takumi > Clarisse.  I am you, but with more res!  I also get an actual personal weapon, not a generic pretend one.

- Mia > Athena.  Better stats in every category and a personal weapon.  Why would you use Athena?  Cause you don't have Mia, no other possible reason.

- Legendary Hector > Hector.  Hits much harder, has better bulk.  Ah but Hector has Omnibreaker that made him special, until Legendary Hector came with a much better version that doesn't take up a seal slot and gives you special charges (VF3).  

 

I'm sure there are many more, like Maribelle over Elise like has been discussed.

[Junkhead]

If you look at raw numbers, just look compare Lon'qu to Karla. That tends to be the prime example at the top of my head, because it's simply ridiculous. Lon'qu was supposed to be good at Spd, and then these three other sword chicks just completely mollywhop any practical reason for his existence (Ayra wins in virtually everything else + R.Astra, Mia is basically his +Atk version with a 19 Mt Wo Dao, Karla......yeah fuck it).

I don't really see the point of it. A guy basically said it's like economics and that they need to increase raw numbers just so the meta "progresses". The only thing it does is make the newer characters better and give you little reason to use the older ones (unless you happen to like them).

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

 

I don't really see the point of it. A guy basically said it's like economics and that they need to increase raw numbers just so the meta "progresses". The only thing it does is make the newer characters better and give you little reason to use the older ones (unless you happen to like them).

It's just really lazy and inexcusable.  Let's see what is harder to do, create pretty much the same unit just with more stats, or actually create something that isn't 'better' but different?  Then again the community is partly to blame.  I remember when Gunnthra was released, all the disappointment of no BST power creep despite being one of the most creative units in the game, chilling seal at that time was completely unique, and debuff blade tome was also super cool.  Guess that wasn't enough, they should have just given her 160 BST and everyone would be happy.  Or when Male Grima came out and many people were actually wishing he has 180BST.  I mean seriously, what is wrong with people.