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I'm about to try this game again. How do I get through the Dawn Brigade chapters?


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Comparing Meg and Aran is like finding two pennies and trying to determine how much Cu is in each one to determine value (lol pennies why you exist). At the end of figuring it out, they're still pennies. Quarters and dollar coins are available. Sothe is tanky af for Act 1. Volug is tanky af for Act 1. Toroneolololol is tanky af for Act 1. Nolan is tanky af for Act 1. Even Zihark is fairly tanky. Jill gets tanky when you help her out and why wouldn't you invest in someone trying to become Haar senpai~~?

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1 hour ago, Centh said:

Comparing Meg and Aran is like finding two pennies and trying to determine how much Cu is in each one to determine value (lol pennies why you exist). At the end of figuring it out, they're still pennies. Quarters and dollar coins are available. Sothe is tanky af for Act 1. Volug is tanky af for Act 1. Toroneolololol is tanky af for Act 1. Nolan is tanky af for Act 1. Even Zihark is fairly tanky. Jill gets tanky when you help her out and why wouldn't you invest in someone trying to become Haar senpai~~?

Bold: That's easy - when the unit in question tends to not get good results when I try to use them. I can only do so much to help a unit that just will not cooperate before I decide that it's time that I cut them loose.

The rest: Volug starts struggling by late part 1. Tauroneo is only available for one chapter (admittedly, it's a two-part one, but still). The rest tend to have trouble when 1-E rolls around, and need to rely on luck to not die a horrible death come part 3.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Ignore the bad members (Leo, Fiona & Meg) and the glass member (Edward). You need some tanks to continue. (Leo is only good in chapter 3-13 as a placeholder)

Nolan is high leveled and is a pretty good character.

Aran is a great tank.

Sothe & Volug are both good character because of their high level.

Jill, Zihark & Taunereo are decent characters for part 1. Try to level Jill because she can be good in further chapters.

If you are in part 3, DON'T recruit of the Dawn Brigade a.k.a. Dain when you play as the Greil Mercenaries

 

 

Part 1-Prologue: Train Micaiah. Don't waste time with Eddy or Leo

Chapter 1-1: Maiden of Miracles: Use Nolan. Try to incorporate Micaiah.

Chapter 1-2: The Dispossessed: Use Sothe & Nolan. Both good character. Sothe can tank a lot. However, Nolan doesn't. Kee your eye on Nolan. If you can, try to use Laura & Micaiah

Chapter 1-3: A Faint Light: This is the most difficult chapter.

You need to protect not only the civilians, but also Eddy, Leo & Laura. Because it is game over if 1 dies. 

Ilyana: good character. However, useless in part 3.

Aran: Recruit him. He is a great tank. He is like the opposite of Neph. Instead of Great speed, he has great defense.

Chapter 1-4: A Distant Voice: Not that hard. Use Nolan & Aran as walls. Use Sothe for killing. Use the mages for distance attacks. Ignore Meg. I didn't bring Leo or Eddie with me from now on.

Chapter 1-5: The Lost Heir: Now you have 2 great characters (Sothe & Volug), 2 good characters (Aran & Nolan) and some mages as back-up. Again, Meg is useles in this sand. This chapter is pretty rough. Look out for the mages.

Chapter 1-6.1: Raise the Standard:  Now you have 5 great characters; Zihark, Tauroneo, and Jill joined. Jill can be somewhat vulnerable in some places. 

Chapter 1-6.2: Raise the Standard: Foina is low-leveled. Useless

Chapter 1-7: A Gathering Hope: No that hard of a chapter. You can train your character by this boss if I recall correctly. Muarim is a BEAST. He rival Cainaghis if you train him. If you don't, useless after part 1.

Chapter 1-8: Glory Unwanted: Difficult chapter. But you will be fine with Nailiah and the 2 beasts.

Chapter 1-9: One Survives: Try to train Micaiah. 

Part 1-Endgame; Daein, Arise!: Easy chapter. You have OP units

 

Part 2 is just:

Haar & Kieran

 

MODEDIT: yo use the edit function next time

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I always always always put Edward + Nolan together as a support.  They get a modest def/hit/avd boost that really gets them going, and they generally carry me through.  You need to baby Edward a bit early on, but as he gets rolling, he gets very strong and very hard to hit.  The only real issue there is if you get "lucky" with too many early STR gains, and he'll start killing everything and get himself killed as a result.  No matter how hard I try otherwise, Edward almost always ends up my best myrmidon in the game.  I keep him tied to Nolan and they both end up doing very well all the way to endgame.

Abuse Micaiah's Sacrifice so that even if only one character needs healing, both Micaiah and Laura can get xp.

Aran is solidly OK.  Meg does okay if you baby her along awhile, but really, my core group is always Edward/Nolan/Leonardo/Aran, and then Jill once I get her.  Sothe and Zihark can help fill gaps if needed, and you can throw Paragon on one of them later to help mitigate their low exp gains.

If you played Path of Radiance and have a save to transfer, it goes a long way to have some stat transfers on Ilyana.  She's otherwise solid like Aran, but like Aran, you're unlikely to use her later in the game.  Same is true (on stat transfers) on any Part 1 or Part 2 character, really.

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On 7/28/2018 at 11:49 AM, Centh said:

Almost all the laguz are instant bench (not even because they're laguz, just awful stats)

I disagree. When you look at the stats and benefits of the laguz, they are way too strong. The only disadvantage to any laguz is when they are vulnerable in their un-transformed state plus having to plan around their gauges of transformation.

The beorc units can't get any higher than 40 depending on their class. Knights get 40 defense, sword people get 40 speed and skill, mages get like 40 magic and/or resistance depending on who you're talking about, and warriors like Boyd and Nolan get 40 str. 

A tiger with time invested can get 23 str and 22 def. That's doubled up to 46 str and 44 def. A capped Muraim or Mordecai can negate all the str stat of a powerhouse unit plus some of their weapon's might. Looking at the 46 str they can already tear up all past that defense. A cat with maxed str at 18 turns into 36 so unless your a knight, they are tearing through that defense.

I'm not even mentioning or bringing up the fact that a laguz's weapon never breaks, has solid accuracy, and increases in power with more usage. A raven's beak at SS is the weakest at 18 might. That is even stronger than a Silver Poleax plus all the swords and lances below it. Again i don't need to bring up how good their accuracy is. I guess you could argue that they only have 1 range but eh. 

Look at Volug. 20 str cap -> 40 str plus SS Fang with 19 might puts him dealing around 59 damage. Unless your a knight with 40 defense he is chipping 19 or more HP per hit (and you bet with 46 skill + 90 Fang accuracy he isn't going to miss). Combined with him getting 36 speed, nobody is doubling him except a Trueblade or Whisper. And lets be real here, the enemy doesn't own any Whisper with capped speed or Swordmaster SP. Cats can't get doubled. A tiger, Skrimir, and Volug are pretty much the only ones that can get doubled with maxed speed. 

The hawks and ravens err on the weaker side but still, laguz give ANY beorc a run for their money if not outright pulverizing them. --cough-- not bringing up that the lowest HP a laguz can have is 65 beating every Beorc unit with only a Reaver contesting them with 68 HP max.

Again....all you have to do is plan strategically around their transformation gauge.  

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Availability, transformation gauge, 1 range locked, slow rank growth, and abysmal xp gain are an issue for almost all of them (besides Skrimir/royals). Opportunity cost is the biggest factor. Turns, xp, bexp, stat boosters, and gold used on Laguz is better spent on other beorc units. The only exceptions are Janaff, ~Volug, and ~Ulki. Ulki doesn't pay off as much as Janaff but is still pretty free and Volug is pretty free. Maxing out stats is pretty easy for laguz and beorc. Having an extra 4 or so def doesn't mean a whole lot near the end of the game. Olivi grass isn't free.

 

Almost anyone is great if you baby them into oblivion, which makes the argument pointless. Is using Laguz possible? Of course. Are they as good as beorc for most of/ the entire game? No.

 

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8 hours ago, Centh said:

Availability, transformation gauge, 1 range locked, slow rank growth, and abysmal xp gain are an issue for almost all of them (besides Skrimir/royals). Opportunity cost is the biggest factor. Turns, xp, bexp, stat boosters, and gold used on Laguz is better spent on other beorc units. The only exceptions are Janaff, ~Volug, and ~Ulki. Ulki doesn't pay off as much as Janaff but is still pretty free and Volug is pretty free. Maxing out stats is pretty easy for laguz and beorc. Having an extra 4 or so def doesn't mean a whole lot near the end of the game. Olivi grass isn't free.

 

Almost anyone is great if you baby them into oblivion, which makes the argument pointless. Is using Laguz possible? Of course. Are they as good as beorc for most of/ the entire game? No.

 

Weapons aren't free either. If all your buying is Olivia grass, you'd be spending less. 

1 range are indeed problems. Unless your spaming javelins/handaxes beorc suffer from it too, so it isn't as if that is solely a laguz problem.

In retrospect all you can hold against them is availability and that gauge since those are specifically tied to them.

Their growth doesn't seem to be all that slower than going thru three tiers with a beorc. In fact that exp gain they get when attacking unshifted is ridiculous. So if your going to use strong units to butter up an enemy, why not feed the kill to a laguz? Also small numbers do matter. When you look at the math it makes a difference. Your perception of it not mattering is turning personal. It means the difference between being able to double in some cases, and land killing blows before an enemy can retaliate, also being able to take hits. 

You say anyone is usable if you take the time on them, but that isn't what I'm pointing out. I'm pointing out that laguz units are way more effective in combat than beorc units. I'm basing it off their high stats and superior weapon.

If the chance to put units against each other existed like in the GBA days, a team with laguz would tear apart beorc (and to be fair, we could have both the beorc and laguz maxed). And I'm not even mentioning royals. I'm leaving them out. But if I added them, and we had GBA team fights, no beorc could win against a maxed laguz royal. Those royals have stats unrivaled.

Tibarn sitting at 40 defense would negate all but like a weapon's might for most melee beorc units and he's be the one doubling a beorc. Caineghis at 46 defense could barely be scratched by a maxed out Boyd/Nolan with Urvan equipped. Meanwhile he'd be biting off over 20 HP per battle so Boyd would only last 4 hits before going down while he'd have to hit Caineghis like 20+ times to bring that guy's colossal 80HP down.

Don't get me started on the dragons since they have 1-2 range and godly stats.  

I'd go on, but this is a pretty one-sided debate.  Of course I'm going based off the premises of GBA team fights as well as raw stats and combat ability and I'm NOT FACTORING IN actual gameplay wise and clearing Radiant Dawn. If we were only strictly talking about getting thru Radiant Dawn, I can see how beorc would be the more viable efficient option of the clearing the game. But if things like battling units against each other existed kinda like online Pokemon fights go, laguz would always be on people's teams. Especially those royals. Everyone would have a dragon on their team like Kurthnaga maxed out. 

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1 hour ago, Tediz64 said:

Weapons aren't free either. If all your buying is Olivia grass, you'd be spending less. 

1 range are indeed problems. Unless your spaming javelins/handaxes beorc suffer from it too, so it isn't as if that is solely a laguz problem.

In retrospect all you can hold against them is availability and that gauge since those are specifically tied to them.

Their growth doesn't seem to be all that slower than going thru three tiers with a beorc. In fact that exp gain they get when attacking unshifted is ridiculous. So if your going to use strong units to butter up an enemy, why not feed the kill to a laguz? Also small numbers do matter. When you look at the math it makes a difference. Your perception of it not mattering is turning personal. It means the difference between being able to double in some cases, and land killing blows before an enemy can retaliate, also being able to take hits. 

You say anyone is usable if you take the time on them, but that isn't what I'm pointing out. I'm pointing out that laguz units are way more effective in combat than beorc units. I'm basing it off their high stats and superior weapon.

If the chance to put units against each other existed like in the GBA days, a team with laguz would tear apart beorc (and to be fair, we could have both the beorc and laguz maxed). And I'm not even mentioning royals. I'm leaving them out. But if I added them, and we had GBA team fights, no beorc could win against a maxed laguz royal. Those royals have stats unrivaled.

Tibarn sitting at 40 defense would negate all but like a weapon's might for most melee beorc units and he's be the one doubling a beorc. Caineghis at 46 defense could barely be scratched by a maxed out Boyd/Nolan with Urvan equipped. Meanwhile he'd be biting off over 20 HP per battle so Boyd would only last 4 hits before going down while he'd have to hit Caineghis like 20+ times to bring that guy's colossal 80HP down.

Don't get me started on the dragons since they have 1-2 range and godly stats.  

I'd go on, but this is a pretty one-sided debate.  Of course I'm going based off the premises of GBA team fights as well as raw stats and combat ability and I'm NOT FACTORING IN actual gameplay wise and clearing Radiant Dawn. If we were only strictly talking about getting thru Radiant Dawn, I can see how beorc would be the more viable efficient option of the clearing the game. But if things like battling units against each other existed kinda like online Pokemon fights go, laguz would always be on people's teams. Especially those royals. Everyone would have a dragon on their team like Kurthnaga maxed out. 

the actual issue is that laguz weapon rank sucks ass and can't be raised by arms scrolls iirc. Outside of using tricks like the Nealuchi 2-P one or having a dude like Volug that's around forever, they're stuck with a steel weapon forever.

another issue's the gauge. tigers get good gauge, but the only viable one long term is Mordecai. He can't double and won't likely reach SS rank weapon. 

the cats get super fucked. ranulf is usable, but the others just kinda suck.

the hawks are good overall. but that's also due to their gauge being non total shit and being good. Ravens are like cats in a way, but get flight.

Lions...well they're solid overall due to stats/lategame gem stashes and 2/3rds of them being royals level of strong. Even Skrimir can be used easy with speedwings.

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41 minutes ago, Joe Cool said:

the actual issue is that laguz weapon rank sucks ass and can't be raised by arms scrolls iirc. Outside of using tricks like the Nealuchi 2-P one or having a dude like Volug that's around forever, they're stuck with a steel weapon forever.

another issue's the gauge. tigers get good gauge, but the only viable one long term is Mordecai. He can't double and won't likely reach SS rank weapon. 

the cats get super fucked. ranulf is usable, but the others just kinda suck.

the hawks are good overall. but that's also due to their gauge being non total shit and being good. Ravens are like cats in a way, but get flight.

Lions...well they're solid overall due to stats/lategame gem stashes and 2/3rds of them being royals level of strong. Even Skrimir can be used easy with speedwings.

Which is why I'll concede that in terms of viability and convenience, beorc units are good to make it though a play thru of Radiant Dawn.

But if you sit and invest time + effort, laguz units would always be in battle teams if online we're an option. They are simply that good. Any unit could take coddling to make them good but laguz are the best. Meg, Rolf, mages, and a few others are examples of people you'd have to watch their level ups to make sure they aren't getting RNG wrecked. People like Ike, and some other Greil Mercs don't need much but the Dawn Brigade characters do need some help. But if your going to sit there and invest the effort, why not do it into the ones who are game breakers. Dragons especially since they have 1-2 range.

I'm pretty sure everyone would stick a royal in their team in online fights. They are just way too broken

Edited by Tediz64
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Cats are terrible overall. Poor damage output and gauge is dropping faster. Ranulf is good, but only because he's almost ten levels higher than his female subordinates.

The two tigers are somewhat weird. Mordecai is like a general, a tank. Even in endgame he'll take almost no damage by physical enemies. His poor speed doesn't matter at all. Muarim hits really hard and also has a decent defense. For 4-4 he can work really well with Meg's fortune skill. Kyze is a tiger with bases of a cat and mixed growths. My Kyze could double each generic aside of swordmasters till part 4, but only because he was totally speedblessed. Consequently he reached S+ at the end of part 3. Became in my top 5 at the end.

Hawks are really damn good. They double everything and have a decent defense. 

I can't tell much about the ravens except that Vika is unusable in part 4 (even worse than trained Lyre) unless she could get a strike upgrade in part 1. I think same goes for Nealuchi. I know about wrath-shenigans by letting take him a crossbow hit, but I don't have any practical experience with it.

Volug has the highest avalibility and so the highest chance to reach S+ strike. And he has earth affinity. Wrath + resolve on him is superfun to cover his low strength.

Base Skrimir onerounds all the paladins in 4-1 except for the boss. With a couple of speedwings he could double everyone in 4-4 except for swordmasters. But alternatively let the purge bishop attack him untransformed to bring him down to resolve zone not to waste any speedwings in him.

Honestly the only poor Laguz are the catgirls and the ravens.

Edited by Hecatia Lapislazuli
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5 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Which is why I'll concede that in terms of viability and convenience, beorc units are good to make it though a play thru of Radiant Dawn.

But if you sit and invest time + effort, laguz units would always be in battle teams if online we're an option. They are simply that good. Any unit could take coddling to make them good but laguz are the best. Meg, Rolf, mages, and a few others are examples of people you'd have to watch their level ups to make sure they aren't getting RNG wrecked. People like Ike, and some other Greil Mercs don't need much but the Dawn Brigade characters do need some help. But if your going to sit there and invest the effort, why not do it into the ones who are game breakers. Dragons especially since they have 1-2 range.

I'm pretty sure everyone would stick a royal in their team in online fights. They are just way too broken

the other thing to remember is that there's a metric shitload of effective weaponry to use VS the laguz.

 

if anything, The Warriors/Trueblades/Marksmen/F!Sentinel/F!Wyverns/ Peg knights are the major threats due to the speed cap plus strength+specials+ 1-2 range.

 

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1 hour ago, Joe Cool said:

the other thing to remember is that there's a metric shitload of effective weaponry to use VS the laguz.

 

if anything, The Warriors/Trueblades/Marksmen/F!Sentinel/F!Wyverns/ Peg knights are the major threats due to the speed cap plus strength+specials+ 1-2 range.

 

As I already listed, str can all but be ignored against tigers and royals so minus one point there. Those defense pretty much only leave some weapon might left over. 

Aside from tigers, dragons, Volug, and Skrimir, you can ignore laguz getting doubled. So that's minus another point since if in online competitive battle we'd probably mix in other laguz. So not all of them are getting doubled. Plus as it turns out even if you used slower laguz, they make up for getting doubled with that high defense and HP so it'd take a long time for them to bring'em down.

If this was online competitive battle and I brought a skill on my laguz to make it fair, I'd slap on a Nihil (we get three of them anyways) so no specials for Beorc. Minus another point. (Let's not forget two Parity skills)

Last but not least, I checked the pages, the only melee weapon that does special damage is a knife against Beasts. Good luck bringing a thief into battle. Sure archers could hurt the fliers but against tigers they could barely scratch them and against a cat, they'd be getting doubled. Oh yeah I forgot the wrymslayer but hey, that's only on dragons. So go figure that won't help much.

So basically in an online battle, if it was conducted like in the GBAs or like Pokemon, laguz would still trash a team of beorc. Just swap out units or try and quickly get a hit in before your opponent changes like in Pokemon. It boils down to strategy and timing. 

Now if you want to start factoring in mages, again it's still a toss up because with cats and Ravens you have enough resistance to take a few hits (plus that HP) but when it's your turn, coupled with being able to double since Cats/Ravens are fast, having over 56 damage (so minus a typical mages maxed out defense roughly being mid twenties and their HP capping at 50 for males) you can in one battle just maul those beorc mages. Provided you switch out and make sure they don't have the bonus damage against your type. 

Look. I do competitive Pokemon battles. Those numbers are what it boils down to. And it's like poeple wanna sit here and say a Raticate can beat a dragon like Salamence or a max rolled Metagross. You can't just put out enough damage fast enough. Its not gonna work. 

In Fire Emblem, laguz characters are simply the go to choice for competitive battle if online existed in this game franchise. Those abilities beorc have go bye-bye if I slap a Nihil on them so it'll be raw talent against raw talent. 

Imagine if I started talking about the royals? Their stats are so freaking high it's game breaking. 

Even if a beorc could get an extra turn hitting me from two spaces, laguz just have enough HP to last until it's their turn. Aside from archers having two range and mages, if we are talking about putting range weapons on melee units like swords, axes, and lances then you have to remember your suffering or losing weapon might for not equipping SS rank weapons. Because not all SS weapons get two range. For sure not the SS axe or sword (barring aldontie instead of Vague Katti) so only the Wish Blade Lance helps a melee getting two range without losing weapon might. 

Edited by Tediz64
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Things being ignored:

1. The huge investment needed to get Laguz to their stat potential (turns, exp favoritism, stat boosts, bexp, deployment, etc).

2. The slow and painful process of getting Laguz to a useful place (Volug/Janaff/Skrimir excluded. These are the best of the best non-royal laguz. Maybe Ranulf? He's frequently deployment free but still...). Looking at you, strike rank.

3. The. Transformation. Gauge. Haar can fly into a mob of enemies and kill everything. Everything. A regular Laguz cannot do this. Period. This leads to...

4. 1 range locked. It's not great.

5. Opportunity cost.

6. The entire game. Each chapter is apart of the game. Endgame is not the game. Endgame is endgame.

7. Royals are designed to be OP. They're OP. Also barely in the game.

8. Pacing. Not playing at a "brisk pace", which seems to be the serenesforest preferred term for sub-LTC but not grinding, makes lots of FE titles trivial. This includes RD.

9. Online battles? Wtf? Haar has an eye patch, so he gets +100 to dmg. Same logic. I can make up random garbage to try an prove a point too.

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On 8/31/2018 at 12:24 PM, Tediz64 said:

I disagree. When you look at the stats and benefits of the laguz, they are way too strong. The only disadvantage to any laguz is when they are vulnerable in their un-transformed state plus having to plan around their gauges of transformation.

The beorc units can't get any higher than 40 depending on their class. Knights get 40 defense, sword people get 40 speed and skill, mages get like 40 magic and/or resistance depending on who you're talking about, and warriors like Boyd and Nolan get 40 str. 

A tiger with time invested can get 23 str and 22 def. That's doubled up to 46 str and 44 def. A capped Muraim or Mordecai can negate all the str stat of a powerhouse unit plus some of their weapon's might. Looking at the 46 str they can already tear up all past that defense. A cat with maxed str at 18 turns into 36 so unless your a knight, they are tearing through that defense.

I'm not even mentioning or bringing up the fact that a laguz's weapon never breaks, has solid accuracy, and increases in power with more usage. A raven's beak at SS is the weakest at 18 might. That is even stronger than a Silver Poleax plus all the swords and lances below it. Again i don't need to bring up how good their accuracy is. I guess you could argue that they only have 1 range but eh. 

Look at Volug. 20 str cap -> 40 str plus SS Fang with 19 might puts him dealing around 59 damage. Unless your a knight with 40 defense he is chipping 19 or more HP per hit (and you bet with 46 skill + 90 Fang accuracy he isn't going to miss). Combined with him getting 36 speed, nobody is doubling him except a Trueblade or Whisper. And lets be real here, the enemy doesn't own any Whisper with capped speed or Swordmaster SP. Cats can't get doubled. A tiger, Skrimir, and Volug are pretty much the only ones that can get doubled with maxed speed. 

The hawks and ravens err on the weaker side but still, laguz give ANY beorc a run for their money if not outright pulverizing them. --cough-- not bringing up that the lowest HP a laguz can have is 65 beating every Beorc unit with only a Reaver contesting them with 68 HP max.

Again....all you have to do is plan strategically around their transformation gauge.  

I call bullshit, full stop. Outside of the royals, which are purposefully overpowered (but barely have any playtime), most laguz just cannot measure up relative to beorc. Why in the seven hells would I want to field a unit that's a liability for a few turns and not that much better than my units that could fight all the time when they can fight over one that can always contribute??? I would go into detail, but long story short, laguz have too many weaknesses and aren't powerful enough to make up for them, except the purposefully overpowered ones.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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3 hours ago, Centh said:

Things being ignored:

1. The huge investment needed to get Laguz to their stat potential (turns, exp favoritism, stat boosts, bexp, deployment, etc).

2. The slow and painful process of getting Laguz to a useful place (Volug/Janaff/Skrimir excluded. These are the best of the best non-royal laguz. Maybe Ranulf? He's frequently deployment free but still...). Looking at you, strike rank.

3. The. Transformation. Gauge. Haar can fly into a mob of enemies and kill everything. Everything. A regular Laguz cannot do this. Period. This leads to...

4. 1 range locked. It's not great.

5. Opportunity cost.

6. The entire game. Each chapter is apart of the game. Endgame is not the game. Endgame is endgame.

7. Royals are designed to be OP. They're OP. Also barely in the game.

8. Pacing. Not playing at a "brisk pace", which seems to be the serenesforest preferred term for sub-LTC but not grinding, makes lots of FE titles trivial. This includes RD.

9. Online battles? Wtf? Haar has an eye patch, so he gets +100 to dmg. Same logic. I can make up random garbage to try an prove a point too.

See, i already conceded earlier when i said that for the sake of convenience and viability, that making it thru the game, using beorc would actually be the better choice. So i agree with 1 through 8.

But 9? Seeing now you are being petty and just acting childish. I clearly said "if" they brought back the team matches from the GBA days in Sacred Stones and we could conduct battles with teams, that you'd see on every team, nothing but laguz because of how great their stats are. I'm being serious here. Have you ever seen someone use Pokemon with base stats lower than 450 in an actual tournament where people compete with all seriousness for trophies or whatever they get?  

In a fight with a maxed rolled Boyd/Nolan who has 68 HP, 40 str, 36 skill, 35 speed, and 30 def (going over the stats that'd be used in a battle) against a maxed roll Mordecai with 75 HP, 23/46 str, 18/36 skill, 15/30 speed, and 22/44 defense, lets see who'd kill who first. Now assuming niether miss, both have nihil, Boyd/Nolan have the SS rank Urvan equipped with 22 might that puts them doing over 62 damage. Minus 44 defense from Mordecai that is 18 damage and since Boyd/Nolan can double that is 36 HP per battle. Now it'd take 3 battles against a Mordecai to bring him down. Mordecai on the other hand with 46 str and 20 might from his fang put him at 66 damage minus Boyd/Nolan's 30 defense leaving him doing 36. In two battles that would be 72 damage and with Reaver's only having 68 max hp, that means that a Mordecai would kill a Boyd/Nolan faster before he goes down.

See? Look at those numbers! In a mock battle, a laguz would win! Want me to use a cat? Ok so 65 HP, 18/36 str, 20/40 skill, 20/40 speed, and (going with a female cat) 14/28 defense. Now with that speed a cat would double. Cat's claw has 18 might so a cat would put out 56 damage per hit so minus Boyd/Nolan's defense of 30 that is 26 damage x 2 (since that speed lets me double) i'm hit 52 per battle. where as Boyd/Nolan would have his 62 - 28 = 34 damage per battle. A cat need's two battles to bring down Boyd/Nolan with only the 1st hit in the 2nd battle being the finishing blow, where as Boyd/Nolan needs to land both his hits to finish off the cat. So depending on who goes first, makes a difference and will boil down to that one simple detail. 

Don't like Reaver's? Use a Trueblade's max rolled stats of 55 HP (for males or 50 for females), 32 str (31 Female), 40 skill and speed, and 26 defense (25 for Females) and put them in a mock battle against a tiger. Assuming they are using Vague Katti (which btw adds 3 defense) and has 20 might, run the numbers! Who'd win? A maxed tiger would hit 37 HP on a male maxed Trueblade and only need two battles to end his puny life. A maxed rolled Trueblade with Vague Katti only hits a MEASLY 8 HP (so x2 because they can double per battle meaning it'd be 16 damage). It would take 5 BATTLES for a maxed Trueblade to bring down a tiger!  Wanna run the numbers on a female cat? A Trueblade would still lose. The Trueblade needs to land 3 hits before being able to kill a female cat where as the cat, needs to land 3 against a male, but only 2 hits on a female Trueblade. 

At the end of the day, laguz are superior units and are more powerful. I was USING cats and tigers. I didn't even call out a hawk/raven, let alone the 4 dragons you get, or a FREAKING royal. Had i run the numbers of a Royal, that beorc probably would have died much faster. 

Also keep in mind because this is the point i'm stressing the most and it seems to me that at least two people posting are ignoring it.

I'm not talking about using the laguz to get thru the game! Emphasis on the NOT GETTING THRU THE GAME! I'm saying laguz are better in terms of being used in mock battles and being in teams if we had the matches brought back from the GBA days of Sacred Stones. I'm saying in a fair fight, Laguz would beat Beorc every time. The next time someone quotes me or tries to argue against my points, i want you at the end of your post to add that this is all assuming we are in mock battles or something like online PVP (player versus player).

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4 hours ago, Centh said:

1. The huge investment needed to get Laguz to their stat potential (turns, exp favoritism, stat boosts, bexp, deployment, etc).

2. The slow and painful process of getting Laguz to a useful place (Volug/Janaff/Skrimir excluded. These are the best of the best non-royal laguz. Maybe Ranulf? He's frequently deployment free but still...). Looking at you, strike rank.

I want to do another post putting an emphasis on these two points you are bringing to the table. Let's use Pokemon as an example. If say for example it was July 1st and there is a tournament on July 31st where you'd compete putting the best you got against the best other people bring to the table does it actually matter who invests how much time, effort, resources, or whatever else you can bring up? Seriously?

If you happened to finish training and maxing out your units by say July the 10th and it takes me the entire like 30 days to finish mine does it matter in the end? Cause on July 31st when we square off and put out our best who is going to win? Looking at those numbers in my previous post, it would be me. So in the end even if i used up more time, more resources, and more effort, what mattered? The RESULTS! Who walks away with the trophy/medal?

The cool thing about Fire Emblem Awakening and Fire Emblem Fates was that we could make teams to street pass and match off against each other. At the end of the day, did it matter how much time or effort was invested? Nope. The results are what mattered. So you putting out and making the best team you could possibly make was all that mattered. If you turned off street pass until you were ready and completed your team, then went online did it matter how long, how hard, or how much resources you had to put up to get there? Again, no.

When it comes to battling against other people, in PVP, most of the time, we have unlimited time to get ready or prepare. So what matters are the results and who is going to win. I want you to keep that mind. Also at this point, i want you to know, i don't have anything personal against you, i half agree with what you say, so don't lose sight of the things i'm saying and  actually look at the facts i'm presenting. Instead of calling it "garbage" or making stuff up. Let's keep things civil here.

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21 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

See, i already conceded earlier when i said that for the sake of convenience and viability, that making it thru the game, using beorc would actually be the better choice. So i agree with 1 through 8.

But 9? Seeing now you are being petty and just acting childish. I clearly said "if" they brought back the team matches from the GBA days in Sacred Stones and we could conduct battles with teams, that you'd see on every team, nothing but laguz because of how great their stats are. I'm being serious here. Have you ever seen someone use Pokemon with base stats lower than 450 in an actual tournament where people compete with all seriousness for trophies or whatever they get?  

In a fight with a maxed rolled Boyd/Nolan who has 68 HP, 40 str, 36 skill, 35 speed, and 30 def (going over the stats that'd be used in a battle) against a maxed roll Mordecai with 75 HP, 23/46 str, 18/36 skill, 15/30 speed, and 22/44 defense, lets see who'd kill who first. Now assuming niether miss, both have nihil, Boyd/Nolan have the SS rank Urvan equipped with 22 might that puts them doing over 62 damage. Minus 44 defense from Mordecai that is 18 damage and since Boyd/Nolan can double that is 36 HP per battle. Now it'd take 3 battles against a Mordecai to bring him down. Mordecai on the other hand with 46 str and 20 might from his fang put him at 66 damage minus Boyd/Nolan's 30 defense leaving him doing 36. In two battles that would be 72 damage and with Reaver's only having 68 max hp, that means that a Mordecai would kill a Boyd/Nolan faster before he goes down.

See? Look at those numbers! In a mock battle, a laguz would win! Want me to use a cat? Ok so 65 HP, 18/36 str, 20/40 skill, 20/40 speed, and (going with a female cat) 14/28 defense. Now with that speed a cat would double. Cat's claw has 18 might so a cat would put out 56 damage per hit so minus Boyd/Nolan's defense of 30 that is 26 damage x 2 (since that speed lets me double) i'm hit 52 per battle. where as Boyd/Nolan would have his 62 - 28 = 34 damage per battle. A cat need's two battles to bring down Boyd/Nolan with only the 1st hit in the 2nd battle being the finishing blow, where as Boyd/Nolan needs to land both his hits to finish off the cat. So depending on who goes first, makes a difference and will boil down to that one simple detail. 

Don't like Reaver's? Use a Trueblade's max rolled stats of 55 HP (for males or 50 for females), 32 str (31 Female), 40 skill and speed, and 26 defense (25 for Females) and put them in a mock battle against a tiger. Assuming they are using Vague Katti (which btw adds 3 defense) and has 20 might, run the numbers! Who'd win? A maxed tiger would hit 37 HP on a male maxed Trueblade and only need two battles to end his puny life. A maxed rolled Trueblade with Vague Katti only hits a MEASLY 8 HP (so x2 because they can double per battle meaning it'd be 16 damage). It would take 5 BATTLES for a maxed Trueblade to bring down a tiger!  Wanna run the numbers on a female cat? A Trueblade would still lose. The Trueblade needs to land 3 hits before being able to kill a female cat where as the cat, needs to land 3 against a male, but only 2 hits on a female Trueblade. 

At the end of the day, laguz are superior units and are more powerful. I was USING cats and tigers. I didn't even call out a hawk/raven, let alone the 4 dragons you get, or a FREAKING royal. Had i run the numbers of a Royal, that beorc probably would have died much faster. 

Also keep in mind because this is the point i'm stressing the most and it seems to me that at least two people posting are ignoring it.

I'm not talking about using the laguz to get thru the game! Emphasis on the NOT GETTING THRU THE GAME! I'm saying laguz are better in terms of being used in mock battles and being in teams if we had the matches brought back from the GBA days of Sacred Stones. I'm saying in a fair fight, Laguz would beat Beorc every time. The next time someone quotes me or tries to argue against my points, i want you at the end of your post to add that this is all assuming we are in mock battles or something like online PVP (player versus player).

So your argument's based on a what if. That's not a good thing. You are also ignoring the shitload of effort it takes to get laguz to a usable state. I do not have the bottomless patience to let enemies break their weapons on a unit that needs to be in their brittle untransformed state to get an exp amount worth mentioning.

Bold: Bullshit. They still have too many weaknesses for them to be better - 1 range lock, strike rank being slow to raise, generally being slow to improve relative to beorc...

20 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

Weapons aren't free either. If all your buying is Olivia grass, you'd be spending less. 

That's bullshit. 1600 gold is more than what most weapons of steel rank cost. Shoutout to the Steel Poleax for being priced such that I can get two of them with the money it takes for one Olivi Grass.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

So your argument's based on a what if. That's not a good thing. You are also ignoring that shitload of effort it takes to get laguz to a usable state. I do not have the bottomless patience to let enemies break their weapons on a unit that needs to be in their brittle untransformed state to get an exp amount worth mentioning.

Bold: Bullshit. They still have too many weaknesses for them to be better - 1 range lock, strike rank being slow to raise, generally being slow to improve relative to beorc...

That's bullshit. 1600 gold is more than what most weapons of steel rank cost. Shoutout to the Steel Poleax for being priced such that I can get two of them with the money it takes for one Olivi Grass.

So 1), i didn't know that price thing. I didn't look it up when i said that, i was just taking a guess on the prices so alright, i'll concede that point. My bad.

2) look at my previous post and see that part i'm talking about the effort/time/resources. When it comes to PVP believe me when i say, some people take it very seriously and even go so far as to dump money into a game just to get the better chance of winning. So at the end of the day, everyone is going to put out some varying levels of effort and time into it so what matters? The results.

When it comes time to battle that is all that is going to be look at when they hand out the trophy. You can't grumble about losing when you only put 10 hours into this game where as someone who put 100 hours into and walks away with the win. You can't complain about not getting the trophy. Clearly you didn't want it since you didn't put in the time.

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9 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

So 1), i didn't know that price thing. I didn't look it up when i said that, i was just taking a guess on the prices so alright, i'll concede that point. My bad.

2) look at my previous post and see that part i'm talking about the effort/time/resources. When it comes to PVP believe me when i say, some people take it very seriously and even go so far as to dump money into a game just to get the better chance of winning. So at the end of the day, everyone is going to put out some varying levels of effort and time into it so what matters? The results.

When it comes time to battle that is all that is going to be look at when they hand out the trophy. You can't grumble about losing when you only put 10 hours into this game where as someone who put 100 hours into and walks away with the win. You can't complain about not getting the trophy. Clearly you didn't want it since you didn't put in the time.

But if people really cared that much about PvP, why would they care about FE, which tends to not have any PvP of note? They would likely be more interested in something like Pokemon. Also, I think Fates's PvP is a hot mess.

Again, that would apply to something like Pokemon. But even then, I'd be more interested in simulator play, a la Showdown, where I can make a competitive team without needing to go through all the breeding and such.

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I can't even fathom the mental gymnastics being done here. Are you playing Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn? The single player game that's main mechanic is math? Maybe you should post on Smogon or something. Wtb no longer receiving alerts about this catastrophic failure.

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