Legendary Archer: Lucina

[Florete]

11 minutes ago, Mister Rogers said:

sort of?

Most people treat the waifu thing as a "tongue-in-cheek" thing. It's only in the dark recesses of the internet that treat it as an actual serious thing. 

Are we in the dark recesses of the internet? Because this trailer downvote bombing is showing it.

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't think that's really being misogynist. I'm pretty sure it's just that males have a tendency to be more opinionated about their tastes in females.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the yaoi fandom is similarly opinionated about their tastes in males (or at least, that's how I've always seem them portrayed).

It is. Lucina's trailer isn't being mass downvoted because of too many/recent alts (her most recent was almost a year ago) or something related to the game. It's almost certainly because she's "a waifu." A woman. If it wasn't, why didn't Hector's trailer get similar treatment? He'd had a much more recent alt and we know he's getting another soon. He's got the same movement type and literally the same weapon as his other two versions. He came just two months after another FE7 legendary. So why was his trailer like/dislike ratio much more favorable? Yes, I know SF wasn't too positive about his, but we're just one subset of the fandom.

I dislike the word "waifu" because of the possessive connotations of it, but what makes it truly awful is how people use it as ammunition against characters they don't like, and it's shown in full force in this sort of situation. It's misogyny, plain and simple.

[Nanima]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that the yaoi fandom is similarly opinionated about their tastes in males (or at least, that's how I've always seem them portrayed).

As a former member of the yaoi fandom (still ship males, but far from exclusively and don't seek out actual BL media) I can tell you that males were only ever attacked if they were on the wrong side of a shipping war. Female characters on the other hand got raked over the coals if they were anything besides a supporter for the gay relationships around them. They also tended to get plenty of sexist comments ("X is such a slut for going after Y when he clearly belongs to Z. And have you seen how she dresses?"), which the male characters never did. 

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

It is. Lucina's trailer isn't being mass downvoted because of too many/recent alts (her most recent was almost a year ago) or something related to the game. It's almost certainly because she's "a waifu." A woman. If it wasn't, why didn't Hector's trailer get similar treatment? He'd had a much more recent alt and we know he's getting another soon. He's got the same movement type and literally the same weapon as his other two versions. He came just two months after another FE7 legendary. So why was his trailer like/dislike ratio much more favorable? Yes, I know SF wasn't too positive about his, but we're just one subset of the fandom.

There is a lingering resentment towards Lucina since she's the face of the game many people consider to be the downfall of Fire Emblem. I think that's balderdash and Lucina is one of my very favorite characters in the franchise, but it really is incredible just how much hate gets flung her way by a vocal minority.

Lucina's last alt was a year ago, and while I wish they spread the love around a bit before giving her a fifth, this is not as bad as Hector or Lyn, like you said. 

As for the banner at hand, I really want this Lucina, but I actually spent 196 orbs trying to get Micaiah without any success. Now I've only got some 320 orbs left, and if I want Micaiah, Lucina, and potentially one on the seasonal banner coming 08-10, then that's not nearly enough. I mean if the next seasonal is a yukata-themed banner then ho boy. 

Just really wish blue had more useful fodder for me. My kingdom for a 3-4 star blue unit with Reposition. Before that one Selena I got while rolling for Micaiah (no blues on the session) I hadn't gotten a unit with Reposition from a banner since March.

[Sunwoo]

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Hector's issues were around his appearance, weapon, and unit type.  I don't think the same holds for Lucina (and Lyn, and Camilla, and. . .).

Hmm, I see. I thought that Takumi was received about as well as summer Camilla -- by which I mean people complained about this being the fourth Takumi and being too safe of a choice, but I'll admit that I tend to gloss over some reasons for hate.

Also, to answer one of your questions, Stahl has a pretty bad "boobs and butt" pose. It's quite amazing how bad it looks on both genders.

[Arthur97]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Hmm, I see. I thought that Takumi was received about as well as summer Camilla -- by which I mean people complained about this being the fourth Takumi and being too safe of a choice, but I'll admit that I tend to gloss over some reasons for hate.

Also, to answer one of your questions, Stahl has a pretty bad "boobs and butt" pose. It's quite amazing how bad it looks on both genders.

Stahl also has a bad case of derp face in his attack art. Poor guy. Just couldn't catch a break in Heroes.

[Johann]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, to answer one of your questions, Stahl has a pretty bad "boobs and butt" pose. It's quite amazing how bad it looks on both genders.

The disparity is insane though, and Stahl's also covered up. Fire Emblem could use it's own Hawkeye Initiative

[redlight]

11 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Something I did notice that eased my concern was just how many more views there are than like or dislikes.

Videos in general on YouTube. Usually it's just people trying to be vocal about something. The trailer could be taken seriously if they think it meant something, but I imagine they'd have a meeting to discuss this and reach the conclusion that it's just people, who would otherwise just say nothing unless getting triggered. The amount of likes/dislikes doesn't reflect a videos views. Sometimes dislikes are given just to spite the person making the video or it's content. Look at Casey Neistat's interview with Logan Paul

4 minutes ago, Florete said:

It is. Lucina's trailer isn't being mass downvoted because of too many/recent alts (her most recent was almost a year ago) or something related to the game. It's almost certainly because she's "a waifu." A woman. If it wasn't, why didn't Hector's trailer get similar treatment? He'd had a much more recent alt and we know he's getting another soon. He's got the same movement type and literally the same weapon as his other two versions. He came just two months after another FE7 legendary. So why was his trailer like/dislike ratio much more favorable? Yes, I know SF wasn't too positive about his, but we're just one subset of the fandom.

I dislike the word "waifu" because of the possessive connotations of it, but what makes it truly awful is how people use it as ammunition against characters they don't like, and it's shown in full force in this sort of situation. It's misogyny, plain and simple.

The voting itself is flawed because sometimes you can get so many views yet so little votes. Votes don't reflect the views a video gets. Most people don't usually use it unless they want to be really vocal. Those that downvoted this particular video could be consider by many to be a vocal minority

To give context. There are currently 75000+ views and about 4800 votes. Does the 4800 represent the 75000 people? No

[eclipse]

10 minutes ago, Johann said:

The disparity is insane though, and Stahl's also covered up. Fire Emblem could use it's own Hawkeye Initiative

I fully support this, but my art skills are horribly lacking.  I mean, we HAVE a Hawkeye, but I can't see him doing that.  Uhh. . .maybe Gangrel or someone like that?

17 minutes ago, Thane said:

Just really wish blue had more useful fodder for me. My kingdom for a 3-4 star blue unit with Reposition. Before that one Selena I got while rolling for Micaiah (no blues on the session) I hadn't gotten a unit with Reposition from a banner since March.

For the upcoming legendary banner, there's Swift Sparrow/Odd-Wave Attack on Ishtar, Escape Route on Lucina (I have need of this, but I'm not going to sacrifice her unless she's a duplicate), and. . .yeah.  Azura's good for dancing, but makes for mediocre fodder.

[Thane]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

For the upcoming legendary banner, there's Swift Sparrow/Odd-Wave Attack on Ishtar, Escape Route on Lucina (I have need of this, but I'm not going to sacrifice her unless she's a duplicate), and. . .yeah.  Azura's good for dancing, but makes for mediocre fodder.

Oh I know, I mostly meant 3-4 stars. The ones you get on your way to the five stars. I've had three Repositions to hand out since March. I know you can get Shanna who has Desperation at four stars, but I've got many of her saved up.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Florete said:

Lyn's trailer getting downvote bombed I could understand. But the fact that Lucina's is getting the same treatment while Hector's didn't is really alarming.

Well Hector had 2 less versions than Lucina and Lyn. Sure Lucina and Lyn won CYL but so did Roy and Ike but they still have 2 less. 

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Thane said:

Oh I know, I mostly meant 3-4 stars. The ones you get on your way to the five stars. I've had three Repositions to hand out since March. I know you can get Shanna who has Desperation at four stars, but I've got many of her saved up.

OH!

Alright, off the top of my head (excluding Shanna and weapon-specific guys):

Florina - Darting Blow (I use this a lot more often than I should)
Oscar - Lancebreaker
Mae - Draw Back/Desperation (if you don't need Desperation 3)
Subaki - Swap/QR 2
Sully - Draw Back/Swordbreaker 2
Jagen - Fortify Cavalry
Claire - Hit and Run
Tailtiu - Drive Speed 2
Corrin and Mathilda - Hone Attack 3
Odin - R Tomebreaker, Moonbow
Robin - Bonfire
Donnel - Drag Back
Effie - Wary FIghter
Wendy - Hone Armor

There's varying degrees of usefulness (for example, Tharja can provide Darting Blow, Palla gives Moonbow, etc.).  Still, it's not a bad list, depending on what you need.

As for Lucina herself?  I doubt her assist will be inheritable, and her C skill looks interesting.

[Thane]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

OH!

Alright, off the top of my head (excluding Shanna and weapon-specific guys):

Florina - Darting Blow (I use this a lot more often than I should)
Oscar - Lancebreaker
Mae - Draw Back/Desperation (if you don't need Desperation 3)
Subaki - Swap/QR 2
Sully - Draw Back/Swordbreaker 2
Jagen - Fortify Cavalry
Claire - Hit and Run
Tailtiu - Drive Speed 2
Corrin and Mathilda - Hone Attack 3
Odin - R Tomebreaker, Moonbow
Robin - Bonfire
Donnel - Drag Back
Effie - Wary FIghter
Wendy - Hone Armor

There's varying degrees of usefulness (for example, Tharja can provide Darting Blow, Palla gives Moonbow, etc.).  Still, it's not a bad list, depending on what you need.

As for Lucina herself?  I doubt her assist will be inheritable, and her C skill looks interesting.

Haha, yeah, thanks for trying to cheer me up, but like I said in the first post I think, it's not very relevant to me because I've got a huge supply of blues in particular. Guess a Florina or two would be good though! 

I swear if the next seasonal banner has a blue hero I also really want it'll be vexing. I still think I'll try though; it's not fun to save up orbs forever, so wish me luck! I think I'll dive in on the Legendary's last day or so.

[Garlyle]

1 hour ago, Sentinel07 said:

Future Vision is likely exclusive.

Pretty much all of the special skills introduced from Legendaries have been exclusive.

She also has the new ranged defense support, which seems inheritable from first glance.

Future Vision looks like the OP version of Swap. I wouldn't want to face armored units utilizing that Assist skill.

[Zangetsu]

32 minutes ago, Johann said:

The disparity is insane though, and Stahl's also covered up. Fire Emblem could use it's own Hawkeye Initiative

Ah yes, I remember this. Probably the only fond memory I had in the comic book community.

[Raven]

None of these are Flying Nino, so I'm doing a 15-Orb full session and pulling out. I would appreciate copies of any of my unfinished projects units, such as Raven, Reinhardt, Nowi, Rebecca, or Soleil.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Also is that what we're calling her?

That is what I call her. I usually refer to alts by the Focus they come in, but Legendary Heroes Foci do not really have a Focus name, so I just use their epithet instead.

 

[Vaximillian]

I love Lucina but don’t like alts. But if I manage to get her on my free wheel, I’m going to cherish her.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Florete said:

It is. Lucina's trailer isn't being mass downvoted because of too many/recent alts (her most recent was almost a year ago) or something related to the game. It's almost certainly because she's "a waifu." A woman. If it wasn't, why didn't Hector's trailer get similar treatment? He'd had a much more recent alt and we know he's getting another soon. He's got the same movement type and literally the same weapon as his other two versions. He came just two months after another FE7 legendary. So why was his trailer like/dislike ratio much more favorable? Yes, I know SF wasn't too positive about his, but we're just one subset of the fandom.

I dislike the word "waifu" because of the possessive connotations of it, but what makes it truly awful is how people use it as ammunition against characters they don't like, and it's shown in full force in this sort of situation. It's misogyny, plain and simple.

No, it's not.

The number of upvotes and downvotes only measures how many people have a strong dislike for the content of the trailer. It cannot measure how many people are ambivalent of the content or approving of the content because people are more driven to action by negative feelings than positive feelings. In other words, it is physically impossible to tell the difference between

1. 90% approval and 10% disapproval,
2. 10% approval, 80% ambivalence, and 10% disapproval, and
3. 90% ambivalence and 10% disapproval

using just upvotes and downvotes alone.

I will argue that the most likely cause for Hector's fairly typical number of upvotes and downvotes is due to a more ambivalent response compared to Lyn's and Lucina's high downvote count, which I attribute not to more hatred, but due to stronger, more divisive opinions.

 

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

How often do you hear men referred to by parts of their bodies?  Or hear people being derided for their "husbandos"?  How do you know all the strong opinions against female video game characters are solely from men?  When was the last time we got a boobs and butts pose from a man?

This is not something that should be handwaved away - this is an actual issue.

Yes, those are actual issues, but no, I don't believe them to be the same issue we currently have at hand. I think pulling the misogyny card is overreacting to this situation.

I believe that the backlash seen in the number of Youtube dislikes isn't due to "hating women" as much as it is the fact that female characters receive stronger opinions of them than male characters.

 

Also, Alfonse gets referred to by his bulge a lot.

The one problem with the comparison of being "referred to by parts of their bodies" is that males don't have a sexually dimorphic characteristic that can be equated to breasts in terms of its level of "social acceptableness" to talk about. Men pretty much just have their muscles, which are very socially acceptable to talk about, and their dongs, which are very not socially acceptable to talk about. Female breasts land somewhere in a literal no-man's land in the middle with no corresponding part of male anatomy to correspond to.

This means that there is no male equivalent to "a walking pair of breasts" not because of differing standards between the sexes, but because men simply don't have a corresponding body part to slap a pair of legs onto.

 

57 minutes ago, Nanima said:

As a former member of the yaoi fandom (still ship males, but far from exclusively and don't seek out actual BL media) I can tell you that males were only ever attacked if they were on the wrong side of a shipping war. Female characters on the other hand got raked over the coals if they were anything besides a supporter for the gay relationships around them. They also tended to get plenty of sexist comments ("X is such a slut for going after Y when he clearly belongs to Z. And have you seen how she dresses?"), which the male characters never did. 

Right. I should have known all of that from my high school and college days. Now I feel old for having been out of college for so long.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[mcsilas]

Hmmm not sure i like this Lucina’s art, i’m still too used to Kozaki’s renditions of her.

i can’t wait for a future legendary banner of L!Lucina, Lancina and Spring Lucina @Vaximillian. (Who knows maybe you get Ishtar this time though?)

anyway funny things i noticed in the lineup.

most of the legendary heroes have a non-strictly-canon aspect to them (the bows, Ryoma’a kinshi while being a swordie).

also Lucina brings alt versions of her family in this banner with Horse Chrom and Winter Lissa. Maybe Robin f as well if the player married Chrom.

lots of Swift Sparrow in this banner as well.

The Fates royal elder sisters are here as well with NYCamilla and Kinoka. Azura randomly reps Rev as well i guess.

[Kahvi]

I don't actually dislike the unit because it's another Lucina alt etc. but because the design is really lazy. Like previously with legendary Lyn, it's basically same the same as her legendary variation. The only change I can see that Lucina's cape might be slightly different. They could've at least given her the archer/sniper class's clothes from Awakening but instead they decided to recycle. Oh well.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, mcsilas said:

Hmmm not sure i like this Lucina’s art, i’m still too used to Kozaki’s renditions of her.

i can’t wait for a future legendary banner of L!Lucina, Lancina and Spring Lucina @Vaximillian. (Who knows maybe you get Ishtar this time though?)

I love Yamada’s art. I loved Yamada’s Lyns before Wada took over. I love Yamada’s Sharenas in Cipher, and I love Yamada’s Lucina. More Yamada, please. Yamada in every banner from now on, please. I will be one happy, happy cat.

I won’t mind getting a better Ishtar (my current one is HP/Res) for sure. Really, only Azura is sort of a dud in the blue lineup here. If I had orbs, I would have rolled quite a few here for Ishtar and Lucina.

[Florete]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, it's not.

The number of upvotes and downvotes only measures how many people have a strong dislike for the content of the trailer. It cannot measure how many people are ambivalent of the content or approving of the content because people are more driven to action by negative feelings than positive feelings. In other words, it is physically impossible to tell the difference between

1. 90% approval and 10% disapproval,
2. 10% approval, 80% ambivalence, and 10% disapproval, and
3. 90% ambivalence and 10% disapproval

using just upvotes and downvotes alone.

I will argue that the most likely cause for Hector's fairly typical number of upvotes and downvotes is due to a more ambivalent response compared to Lyn's and Lucina's high downvote count, which I attribute not to more hatred, but due to stronger, more divisive opinions.

Yes, it is. You don't even realize that you're basically saying the same thing. I think part of the problem is that you're misunderstanding the use of the word "misogyny" in this context. It's not just hatred, but prejudice. These "stronger, more divisive opinions" are a result of just that.

I know we can't tell how many people are simply ambivalent, but why does that matter? I said female characters get exponentially more hate. It doesn't matter how many people are indifferent, it matters how many people - relatively speaking - are negative. You can call it a vocal minority if you want, and I won't disagree with you, but they're vocal, meaning it's what we hear and how we are influenced.

[mcsilas]

@Vaximillian yeah i like Yamada’s Lyn and Chrom

i think i just need to get used to the new art that’s all. She looks younger compared to the Brave artwork to me

i hope i don’t get Azura since i just got her as well last week. Although a non -Atk would be okay but i’m more interested in the other two blues

also huh, between this and the Triangl Advantage banner in one of the daily summon banners, this would actually be the best time to get an Azura if you were missing her and want her I guess

[redlight]

@Ice Dragon Thank you 

Edited July 30, 2018 by silveraura25

[Lau]

I'm fine with Lucina. She gorgeous, and that attack animation!

So I'll be pulling for L!Lucina, Exalt Chrom and LA Lilina.