Jump to content

Legendary Archer: Lucina


Poimagic
 Share

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I kind of wish that they'd have picked someone other than Azura to take the third spot in blue, though, considering I'm done merging her and she has no skills worth holding onto for Skill Inheritance. I wouldn't mind some more copies of Hardin, Hinoka, or Nephenee instead.

I think they're giving out Azura on this banner because they're going to give her a refinement on the update after this upcoming one. IIRC, that's what they did with Tiki: Put Young!Tiki on a Legendary banner, and then on the next update, the Tikis are getting a refinement!

At least, I want this to be the case. I could be completely wrong, and I don't think one unit makes a pattern or anything, but I'd like to think this is the case... and also I can't come up with a better explanation for her appearance here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 366
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

8 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I think they're giving out Azura on this banner because they're going to give her a refinement on the update after this upcoming one.

If she is getting a Refinement, I think it is going to be a lance version of Urðr/Skuld, although there is a chance that it could be a lance version of the Draconic Poleax too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lance Azura should've had the Blessed Lance anyway. She only carries that thing with her in all her official art where she wields a weapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

If she is getting a Refinement, I think it is going to be a lance version of Urðr/Skuld, although there is a chance that it could be a lance version of the Draconic Poleax too.

Who knows? It's possible that it won't be the case, as in my experience, Azura is the best refresher combat-wise, against reds of course XD. Still, she gets the job done when needed. Even more than PA!Azura, as she has high attack and speed, but rather mediocre hp and poor defense, taking considerable damage even against lances. It wouldn't hurt giving her an equivalent of the Draconic Poleaxe, but I don't think she's the most urgent choice for a weap upgrade 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And herein lies my problem with everyone responding to me. Nobody has yet even TRIED to argue against my argument. Everyone has literally "only been calling me out for making bad faith arguments" as you put it.

You're basically attempting to take the moral high ground not to argue that my argument is wrong, but that I am wrong for making an argument.

Easy there, chief. I'm criticizing some of the responses you've made in this thread as downplaying sexism. I'm criticizing that you're getting rather defensive about this argument and shifting the conversation into how people are supposedly out to get you. I get that you're frustrated, but your responses have been about not being heard instead of noticing that I'm not actually focused on the downvote stuff specifically.

I don't want to speak for Florete or eclipse, but it must be pretty frustrating for women to have every conversation about sexism get shot down or hijacked by men who want to dismiss that it might be in play or otherwise defend themselves from accusations that nobody is making.

Quote

And you don't seem to understand what my point is, either.

The fact that they have received five alts is not intrinsic to their characters. Nothing about Lucina's character necessitates that she receives five alts. My argument is that the reason for the backlash is not because "it's an alt of Lucina (who now has five alts)" but because "it's an alt of a character who now has five alts (who happens to be Lucina)". These are very, very different statements. The former finds fault in the fact that the alt is of Lucina in particular. The latter finds fault in the fact that the character receiving the alt has many alts regardless of who it happened to be.

I understand your point and I haven't disputed the main point you're trying to make because I don't disagree with the idea that many people are upset that she's got her 5th alt. However, I find it to be too reductive an argument because it doesn't get into why people have problems with alts, when alts of certain characters get more than others, and how these things affect people's perceptions of characters.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

can, however, divorce the fact that not liking an alt of Lucina is not the same as not liking Lucina, is not the same as not liking women, and is not the same as being misogynist.

You're treating a negative opinion towards a single instance of a female character to be a negative opinion of a female character to be a negative opinion of females as a whole for the sole fact that that single instance of a female character is female.

Again you misunderstood. I am not attributing the negative reaction to Lucina being a female, but rather that it's influencing the response (even if unconsciously), and in turn affecting the way the communities perceive female characters (again, even if unconsciously).

18 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Bad faith argument, huh? But, have you really done anything to prove your argument other than saying people are sexist? Do you have proof that that's why people are reacting the way they do? Who's to say he's wrong? Or that it's, as you put it, "bad faith arguments?" If you say it's because of sexism, prove it.

See, this right here is a bad faith argument: "Prove it" is a ridiculous thing to say because neither myself nor Ice can verify why everyone reacts the way they do (especially in regards to downvotes). I presume that you misunderstood my argument, which agrees with Ice to an extent, but attempts to look deeper at the issue and the impacts.

17 minutes ago, Paris said:

Agreed with @Arthur97. Currently, no one has offered a legitimate counterargument (data) against the data he provided. Furthermore, isn't dismissing his arguments as "mansplaining" talking him down?  

People wanting to defend themselves isn't always because they're unwilling to listen. There's the possibility that someone is mislabelling them and/or making inaccurate accusations about them or their actions. 

Neither of those women provided statistical data to back their claim and counter his. Both of them have failed to consider the issues fans had with Lyn/Lucina or the differences behind the circumstances of their alts vs other characters. It's disingenuous to ignore those valid issues and label fans as "sexist". 

He can defend himself and his words. Nobody here has called him a sexist or anything either. Asking for statistical data is absurd because the way people express their dissatisfaction isn't concrete and only measurable in a few broad ways. You have downvotes, sure, they don't track why a person downvoted. On top of that, downvotes and even forum posts only make up a small portion of the overall playerbase. Yet, there is a clear disparity in the way female characters are treated by the creators and fans (and yes, I know it's not everybody, but that's not the problem). This disparity can impact how people view women, including the reinforcement of sexist behavior. I care way more about that than whether people are upset about getting another alt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Lance Azura should've had the Blessed Lance anyway. She only carries that thing with her in all her official art where she wields a weapon.

I guess it could have Renewal 3, but how would they implement the effectiveness against monster part?

3 minutes ago, Midnox said:

Who knows? It's possible that it won't be the case, as in my experience, Azura is the best refresher combat-wise, against reds of course XD. Still, she gets the job done when needed. Even more than PA!Azura, as she has high attack and speed, but rather mediocre hp and poor defense, taking considerable damage even against lances. It wouldn't hurt giving her an equivalent of the Draconic Poleaxe, but I don't think she's the most urgent choice for a weap upgrade 

Yeah, she is not urgent choice for a Refinement, but Nephenee did not really need a Refinement either since she is already so good. It feels like the developers are just choosing whoever on a whim sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess it could have Renewal 3, but how would they implement the effectiveness against monster part?

Considering that they haven't added dragon effectiveness to Durandal, Armads, and Mulagir, even now, I don't think Blessed Lance needs to 100% copy over effectiveness against monsters aspect.

Or they could make it effective against dragons, so we could have a blue dragonslaying unit.

Edited by Sunwoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Considering that they haven't added dragon effectiveness to Durandal, Armads, and Mulagir, even now, I don't think Blessed Lance needs to 100% copy over effectiveness against monsters aspect.

Or they could make it effective against dragons, so we could have a blue dragonslaying unit.

That would be nice. Blue needs some sort dragon effective Weapon since they are the only color to be missing out, although there is colorless too.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess it could have Renewal 3, but how would they implement the effectiveness against monster part?

I was think about an idea for the blessed lance where if allies are 2 spaces to Azura, they get healed for 10 hp each turn. That way Azura can have her own niche as a dancer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Lance Azura should've had the Blessed Lance anyway. She only carries that thing with her in all her official art where she wields a weapon.

And this is their chance to give it to her.

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

If she is getting a Refinement, I think it is going to be a lance version of Urðr/Skuld, although there is a chance that it could be a lance version of the Draconic Poleax too.

To be completely honest, I'm hoping for Blessed Lance to come with a post-combat heal for Azura and nearby allies (like Breath of Life 3, but Azura gets it too) and maybe a heals-ally-when-using-Sing/Dance-on-them effect as well. If nothing else, it would make Azura a better supporter, since she could also heal people too.

Blue Skuld and/or Triangle Adept Lance, or pretty much any of the other ideas suggested in the thread so far for that matter, would be alright too though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I was think about an idea for the blessed lance where if allies are 2 spaces to Azura, they get healed for 10 hp each turn. That way Azura can have her own niche as a dancer.

That sounds pretty awesome. I like it. Player Phase players need some love too, and I think they should give Push-Renewal nukes some more support.

However, I prefer the healing to be an additional Refinement effect though, since Desperation nukes wants their HP to stay low.

4 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

To be completely honest, I'm hoping for Blessed Lance to come with a post-combat heal for Azura and nearby allies (like Breath of Life 3, but Azura gets it too) and maybe a heals-ally-when-using-Sing/Dance-on-them effect as well. If nothing else, it would make Azura a better supporter, since she could also heal people too.

Post combat heal feels kind of iffy, since that requires her to be in the enemies' way, and it might block the nukes way.

Healing with Dance/Sing is good though, as it will help Renewal nukes get their HP back up.

3 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Last thing I want is to take my blade mage out of desperation range when I dance them...

That is what I was thinking, but once Atk/Spd Push becomes more available, I think Renewal nuke builds will be viable and common too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

Post combat heal feels kind of iffy, since that requires her to be in the enemies' way, and it might block the nukes way.

Healing with Dance/Sing is good though, as it will help Renewal nukes get their HP back up.

Post-combat healing was supposed to be a reference to Blessed Lance's HP recovery each turn, though after looking at how it actually worked in Fates, that could've been Renewal 3 or Recover Ring instead.

Also, I'm happy that you like the optional effect, though what do you mean by Renewal nuke? 

Edited by ILikeKirbys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is what I was thinking, but once Atk/Spd Push becomes more available, I think Renewal nuke builds will be viable and common too.

We're up to 9 units with Swift Sparrow and all are still 5* exclusive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Post-combat healing was supposed to be a reference to Blessed Lance's HP recovery each turn, though after looking at how it actually worked in Fates, that could've been Renewal 3 or Recover Ring instead.

Also, I'm happy that you like the optional effect, though what do you mean by Renewal nuke? 

So you know how most nukes are currently Desperation nukes who run Desperation as their B slot for sustainability?

Renewal nukes run Renewal for sustainability, and with the release of Atk/Spd Push, that makes staying at 100% HP more desirable. Currently, the only common Renewal nukes to my knowledge are Alm, Celica, FH!Celica, and SA!Tana. The first three got good offensive effects when at 100% HP from their Weapons, while SA!Tana got Atk/Spd Push as her default A skill.

6 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

We're up to 9 units with Swift Sparrow and all are still 5* exclusive.

We just need patience, and lots of feedback.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

We're up to 9 units with Swift Sparrow and all are still 5* exclusive.

Many of the dual blow skills just don't seem to drop. Oliver with mirror strike is the only one I can think of who had a dual blow skill available to inherit as a 4-star, but he also had attack ploy. Legault and Athena brought swift strike and sturdy blow into the 4-star pool, yes, but you can't actually inherit the entire thing without a 5-star Legault.

IS be kind of stingy with dual blows.

EDIT:

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

We just need patience, and lots of feedback.

Honestly, I'd rather whine at them to give us an item to change our characters' natures to neutral. I pulled so many -atk and -spd 5-star units throughout all four summer banners, it's not even funny.

Edited by Sunwoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Sunwoo said:

Many of the dual blow skills just don't seem to drop. Oliver with mirror strike is the only one I can think of who had a dual blow skill available to inherit as a 4-star, but he also had attack ploy. Legault and Athena brought swift strike and sturdy blow into the 4-star pool, yes, but you can't actually inherit the entire thing without a 5-star Legault.

IS be kind of stingy with dual blows.

Not just dual blows, but any sort of Stance or Bond skill as well. I don't expect Push to be any different. Brazen is sort of an exception I guess.

The least they could do is buff the simple +stat skills and value them the same SP as most other A-skills to give us some real options, but that's not happening either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

We've canonically had Hector under a pegasus, will that work?

L-lewd! :P:

10 hours ago, Kysafen said:

I guess this is the new "normal" now, and I guess people get excited for it, and good for them, but honestly? I liked the community better before Heroes came out. Really speaks volumes when it's the fangame makers of this community that generate more original content than the official company.

You are free to ignore the Heroes side of things, if it means you'll stop complaining about the fandom.

1 hour ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I think they're giving out Azura on this banner because they're going to give her a refinement on the update after this upcoming one. IIRC, that's what they did with Tiki: Put Young!Tiki on a Legendary banner, and then on the next update, the Tikis are getting a refinement!

At least, I want this to be the case. I could be completely wrong, and I don't think one unit makes a pattern or anything, but I'd like to think this is the case... and also I can't come up with a better explanation for her appearance here.

. . .this is a good theory, and I like it!  It'll probably be the blue version of her PA weapon or something.

46 minutes ago, Johann said:

I don't want to speak for Florete or eclipse, but it must be pretty frustrating for women to have every conversation about sexism get shot down or hijacked by men who want to dismiss that it might be in play or otherwise defend themselves from accusations that nobody is making.

Nah, you're good.

The reason why I've been silent is because I'm a mod that wants to lead by example.  If I were to respond to Ice Dragon, either last night or now, I'd have to warn myself.  I don't need to deal with that when RL is more pressing.  Thus, the best thing to do when things get heated is to walk away - I can't warn people who don't post~!

39 minutes ago, XRay said:

I guess it could have Renewal 3, but how would they implement the effectiveness against monster part?

Yeah, she is not urgent choice for a Refinement, but Nephenee did not really need a Refinement either since she is already so good. It feels like the developers are just choosing whoever on a whim sometimes.

Additionally, the effects are all over the place (sorry Leo).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

The least they could do is buff the simple +stat skills and value them the same SP as most other A-skills to give us some real options, but that's not happening either.

I wish they'd release more dual +stat abilities and let them be inherited from 4-stars. It's dumb that I have to promote someone to 5-star just to pass on atk/def+2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Nah, you're good.

The reason why I've been silent is because I'm a mod that wants to lead by example.  If I were to respond to Ice Dragon, either last night or now, I'd have to warn myself.  I don't need to deal with that when RL is more pressing.  Thus, the best thing to do when things get heated is to walk away - I can't warn people who don't post~!

At the same time, I felt that my own posts may have been potentially seen as "representing" you, so to speak, so I didn't want to make things more of a pain for you.

It's pretty nice and cool outside so I'll probably go run for a few miles, since I wanna stay up for the banner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crossposting the stats:

Text:

36/34/35/25/20 - BST is 150 on the dot, but no danger because she has no superbanes. Superboons are HP and Def.

Image:

 

mnn55pe3t7d11.png

Edited by Humanoid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Additionally, the effects are all over the place (sorry Leo).

Yeah, it is kind of weird when they just scrap the original effect for something else totally different. Leo's Refined Brynhildr is nice, but I wish they expanded on the original Gravity effect instead. Leo would be totally awesome if he was able to Gravity the enemies within two spaces of his target, and when facing against Gravity debuffed enemies, Leo gets Close Counter and Atk +6 or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Crossposting the stats

 

  Reveal hidden contents

mnn55pe3t7d11.png

 

L!Lucina's Stat Spread looks pretty good. I'm kinda disappointed she doesn't have more bulk, since she can't enemy phase ranged units like L!Lyn can, but at least she can safetly attack  non armor DC units thanks to her bow's effect. I think her def and res are just high enough where she avoids getting one shot by stuff like nowi and hardin.

Edited by FoxyGrandpa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoiler

Phew! Those L!Lucina stats look pretty nice (then again it's the same as her normal form but with less Hp/Spd), although she seems pretty frail but that's nothing that Windsweep/Desperation can't solve. I still prioritize L!Lyn because Spd Tactic but she'll be a decent choice when there's no greens to pull from. 

I think I'll wait until August to start summoning, doing it day 1 on new banners always tends to give me bad luck and I don't want to deal with the possible server slowdown so no early clears this time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 5th Lucina is basically a worse Bride Cordelia. Being a “colored bow” units really limits her potential. I guess I’ll start seeing them in the arena soon. Easy prey for a built Inigo. 

Still, a second character with 5 versions of herself in less than 2 years...I hope CYL2 Hector isn’t another green axe armored unit...that would be taking the already stale meme too far. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...