Old classes you would like to see return to the franchise

[thecrimsonflash]

I'd like to see the summoner return personally, it was probably my favorite thing from the gba era, one of my main hopes for 3H is that if they use a SoV style magic system that also includes summons.

[Strullemia]

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Too bad that the one game with it also had a godawful inventory system, eh? That's sure to take the wind out of its sails...

I don't disagree that the inventory system wasn't good but I've recently started another FE4 run and the buying/selling thing is only an issue if your unit isn't strong enough to win in the arena. Really the only unit where the inventory system annoyed me a lot was Coirpre.

[Shadow Mir]

6 hours ago, Hekselka said:

I don't disagree that the inventory system wasn't good but I've recently started another FE4 run and the buying/selling thing is only an issue if your unit isn't strong enough to win in the arena. Really the only unit where the inventory system annoyed me a lot was Coirpre.

I see it as a massive issue since it's just too many extra steps to transfer weapons. Also, I'd say healers in general would have money problems since they can't fight.

[Strullemia]

On 5-8-2018 at 5:29 PM, Shadow Mir said:

I see it as a massive issue since it's just too many extra steps to transfer weapons. Also, I'd say healers in general would have money problems since they can't fight.

Most of them can fight and for the ones that can't staves aren't really that pricey so as long as you don't let the enemy destroy one of your castles you'll get enough money every new chapter to repair them. 

 

[Shadow Mir]

42 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Most of them can fight and for the ones that can't staves aren't really that pricey so as long as you don't let the enemy destroy one of your castles you'll get enough money every new chapter to repair them. 

And just how many of those would actually be GOOD fighters??? Also, I was thinking more in the context of foot healers, since they're pretty much entirely dependent on villages for money. All the same, I still see it as a mechanic that actively hinders the game's playability, which Jugdral has no shortage of...

Edited August 7, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[Strullemia]

16 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

And just how many of those would actually be GOOD fighters??? Also, I was thinking more in the context of foot healers, since they're pretty much entirely dependent on villages for money. All the same, I still see it as a mechanic that actively hinders the game's playability, which Jugdral has no shortage of...

Edain, Lachesis, Claude, Lana and Coirpre are all foot healers.

Edain starts out with the Mend staff which gives you 30exp per use so she'll level up crazy fast and when she promotes she can use a Wind Tome. Then she'll be just about strong enough to defend herself on the battlefield, which as a mainly healer unit is good.
Lachesis gets the MK promotion that is super good and gives her a horse but even ignoring that she has the Miracle Sword which can help her win some arena battles before her promotion.
Claude's bases when joins are good enough that if you buy him a basic tome he'll be able to stand his ground, just like Edain he'll be someone that mainly heals but can also do a decent job at helping out fighting the enemy.
Lana pretty much does the same thing her mother does in Gen 2 but unlike her she doesn't get a Mend staff but she makes up for that by joining at the very start of Gen 2 instead of almost a full chapter later.
Coirpre is a waste of space.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Hekselka

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Hekselka said:

Edain, Lachesis, Claude, Lana and Coirpre are all foot healers.

Edain starts out with the Mend staff which gives you 30exp per use so she'll level up crazy fast and when she promotes she can use a Wind Tome. Then she'll be just about strong enough to defend herself on the battlefield, which as a mainly healer unit is good.
Lachesis gets the MK promotion that is super good and gives her a horse but even ignoring that she has the Miracle Sword which can help her win some arena battles before her promotion.
Claude's bases when joins are good enough that if you buy him a basic tome he'll be able to stand his ground, just like Edain he'll be someone that mainly heals but can also do a decent job at helping out fighting the enemy.
Lana pretty much does the same thing her mother does in Gen 2 but unlike her she doesn't get a Mend staff but she makes up for that by joining at the very start of Gen 2 instead of almost a full chapter later.
Coirpre is a waste of space.

Out of these, three of them need to promote to gain the ability to fight... in a game where 20 is the minimum promotion level. And healers are already annoying enough to raise as it is. Safe to say that the foot healers (or at least Lana and her mother) aren't going to be promoting any time soon because Horse Emblem. . . 

[Alistair]

Summoners and Nomads (especially since there are no unpromoted cavalry archer classes since Elibe iirc) are no-brainers. And while I didn't come up with the idea, I would love for Griffon Riders to return as the flying class line that primarily uses swords, considering pegasus knights have always had lances and wyvern knights have shifted to axes. Think about it like this: there are NO flying sword-wielding classes in Fates. At all. 

Speaking of Fates, I'd like for Malig Knights, Kinshi Knights and its version of Dread Fighter to return. 

[Shoblongoo]

More laguz plz

Not taguel. Not kitsune. Not manakete.

Good 'ol beorc-mauling, Tellius variety Laguz

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Sage of the Mist]

 I would love to see the shaman and druid classes return,  I  like the aesthetic they carry far more than then the ridiculous striperific costumes the dark mages have been getting. I would also like to see the kinship knights return for a similar reason.

7 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

More pathetically weak and useless units that are only good for a few turns please!

Fixed that up for ya.

[Shadow Mir]

26 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

More laguz plz

Not taguel. Not kitsune. Not manakete.

Good 'ol beorc-mauling, Tellius variety Laguz

No. Just no. Not after Radiant Dawn made most of them pathetic, paltry, weak, worthless, the whole nine yards.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[Shoblongoo]

Between Tibarn-level broken and Lyre-level jank, there's a way to do it right.

(sorry Azura. I like songstresses better when they were called Herons) 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Between Tibarn-level broken and Lyre-level jank, there's a way to do it right.

(sorry Azura. But I like songstresses better when they were called Herons) 

And you're naive enough to think they can do it right when most of the non-royals were a hell of a lot closer to Lyre-level usefulness than not??? Ha!

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[DisobeyedCargo]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

And you're naive enough to think they can do it right when most of the non-royals were a hell of a lot closer to Lyre-level usefulness than not??? Ha!

I’m with @Shoblongooi found Laguz to be very fun to use in POR with the ones I used to be pretty good in combat, plus there’s ways around the transformation gauge. Demi band, Laguz gem/crystal, and the royals had their unique formshift but that’s exculsive to them

and I have actual faith that IS could find a way to balance them well so they aren’t Tibarn-Broke but aren’t useless 

Edited August 8, 2018 by DisobeyedCargo

[Kruggov]

17 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Out of these, three of them need to promote to gain the ability to fight... in a game where 20 is the minimum promotion level. And healers are already annoying enough to raise as it is. Safe to say that the foot healers (or at least Lana and her mother) aren't going to be promoting any time soon because Horse Emblem. . . 

This is also a game Return exists, and it's CHEAP to replair (only 5000), and it and Warp allow you to get healers up fast. AND it's also the game where Physic and especially Fortify give a ton of exp. On my play of FE4, Edain hit 20 about by the end chapter 2, Ethlyn about halfway through the same chapter, Lachesis by the end of 3, Lana i don't really remember - about end of 7, I think,  and Coirpre was 20 by the end of his join chapter thanks to Fortify spam (though I'm sure he'd be worse off with any father other than Claud).

7 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Between Tibarn-level broken and Lyre-level jank, there's a way to do it right.

Make the bonuses back to how they were in PoR, because there the laguz didn't die from a stiff breeze when untransformed. Get rid of transformation EXP penalty, that sucked SO hard. Definitely keep the untransformed counterattack. For varied gauge speeds - cats were too fast (they untransformed too quickly), dragons and ravens were too slow (took forever for them to transform without a Laguz Stone or Olivi Grass).

[Shadow Mir]

7 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I’m with @Shoblongooi found Laguz to be very fun to use in POR with the ones I used to be pretty good in combat, plus there’s ways around the transformation gauge. Demi band, Laguz gem/crystal, and the royals had their unique formshift but that’s exculsive to them

and I have actual faith that IS could find a way to balance them well so they aren’t Tibarn-Broke but aren’t useless 

Because it's not like the catch-22 which results in laguz being slow to grow relative to beorc is a thing, now is it? Anyway, long story short, the laguz concept just does not work when final death is a thing - why would I want to use units that spend about half the map being liabilities that can't do much of anything when by the time they CAN, there's nothing for them to do???

[Kruggov]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because it's not like the catch-22 which results in laguz being slow to grow relative to beorc is a thing, now is it? Anyway, long story short, the laguz concept just does not work when final death is a thing - why would I want to use units that spend about half the map being liabilities that can't do much of anything when by the time they CAN, there's nothing for them to do???

The catch is that - either you fight untransformed, and you die without Earth support, because no speed or defenses (though WITH earth support that works really well, as long as you can deal damage EXP will flow), you fight transformed against enemies on your level, and got maybe 5 exp per kill, or you fight transformed against enemies of much higher level, and struggle for obvious reasons. Royals get the pass, since they don't need to get stronger. IMO that was the main problem with laguz in RD - the gauge is not as problematic, because Olivi Grass/Laguz Stones exist.

[Shoblongoo]

1 minute ago, Kruggov said:

Make the bonuses back to how they were in PoR, because there the laguz didn't die from a stiff breeze when untransformed. 

Yes
 

1 minute ago, Kruggov said:

Get rid of transformation EXP penalty, that sucked SO hard. 

Yes
 

1 minute ago, Kruggov said:

keep the untransformed counterattack. 

Yes


_________

I'd also say take inspiration with what they did with the Wolfskins in conquest (i.e. beastone let you hit hard and fast when you needed to kill things. beastrune let you tank when you needed to tank)

instead of laguz having only one weapon--give the birds [Beak] + [Talon]. Give the beasts [Fang] + [Claw]. 

...and have them be able to perform different roles, depending on what they're using...

The modern skill system also offers up interesting possibilities. (i.e. having beast laguz learn quickclaw and howl as basic lvl up skills from their class rather than as special skills only available to a handful of units, giving something akin to the Kinshi Knight's [air superiority] skill to bird laguz when they fight beorc fliers, to signify that bird laguz are naturally born fliers and will always have the advantage in aerial combat vs a pegasus knights or wyvern lords because the beorc had to be trained to fight that way. Its just what birds were born to do)

...theres all sorts of cool stuff they could do with the laguz....

 

[Tryhard]

playable brigands

oni savage doesn't count

[DisobeyedCargo]

7 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Yes
 

Yes
 

Yes


_________

I'd also say take inspiration with what they did with the Wolfskins in conquest (i.e. beastone let you hit hard and fast when you needed to kill things. beastrune let you tank when you needed to tank)

instead of laguz having only one weapon--give the birds [Beak] + [Talon]. Give the beasts [Fang] + [Claw]. 

...and have them be able to perform different roles, depending on what they're using...

The modern skill system also offers up interesting possibilities. (i.e. having beast laguz learn quickclaw and howl as basic lvl up skills from their class rather than as special skills only available to a handful of units, giving something akin to the Kinshi Knight's [air superiority] skill to bird laguz when they fight beorc fliers, to signify that bird laguz are naturally born fliers and will always have the advantage in aerial combat vs a pegasus knights or wyvern lords because the beorc had to be trained to fight that way. Its just what birds were born to do)

...theres all sorts of cool stuff they could do with the laguz....

 

I’m with you right there there’s so much cool stuff they can do with laguz 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Kruggov said:

The catch is that - either you fight untransformed, and you die without Earth support, because no speed or defenses (though WITH earth support that works really well, as long as you can deal damage EXP will flow), you fight transformed against enemies on your level, and got maybe 5 exp per kill, or you fight transformed against enemies of much higher level, and struggle for obvious reasons. Royals get the pass, since they don't need to get stronger. IMO that was the main problem with laguz in RD - the gauge is not as problematic, because Olivi Grass/Laguz Stones exist.

Exactly - there's no good way to train laguz, and even if there were, the results are hardly worth the hassle. Also, even if the gauge may not have been the main problem, it sure as hell didn't help whatsoever - olivi grass is a rip-off, and you only get 8 uses of laguz stones before part 4. Laguz Gems, on the other hand, don't come until very late in the game, by which point I'd have dropped most non-royal laguz because they couldn't keep up. And the first of them is in the desert, where I'd pretty much have to avoid having the boss of that chapter be the last enemy I kill because he's on the square where it is,

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

No. Just no. Not after Radiant Dawn made most of them pathetic, paltry, weak, worthless, the whole nine yards.

4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

And you're naive enough to think they can do it right when most of the non-royals were a hell of a lot closer to Lyre-level usefulness than not??? Ha!

Can you like, not complain about other people's opinions once in a while? What you like and don't like isn't the be all and end all of everything. Your willingness to jump down people's throat who aren't even looking for a debate is exasperating.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Can you like, not complain about other people's opinions once in a while? What you like and don't like isn't the be all and end all of everything. Your willingness to jump down people's throat who aren't even looking for a debate is exasperating.

And so is other people's blind faith in IS.

[DisobeyedCargo]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

And so is other people's blind faith in IS.

 Blind faith is willingly accepting whatever is thrown at us out of pure loyalty, which none of us are doing. 

 

Stop complaining about other people’s opinions, and jumping down other people’s throats about something you don’t like.

 

as for the topic, I enjoyed using nomads in the elibe games, I wouldn’t mind seeing them agian. Granted bow knight is almost the same thing, but I would like to see the no forest terrain penalty again on some mounted class.

and can we please have echoes archers back, maybe not QUITE as much range as before or movement as a bow knight but that would kind of make my last point contradictory, but at a bare minimum 1-2 range

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

And so is other people's blind faith in IS.

The topic title is meant to be about what people like; what they want to see again. You're jumping on and telling people no, they're wrong for liking the things they wrong. The series is shit and it's always going to be shit and anything that was poorly executed once is forever destined to wallow in shit because this is a terrible game series with terrible ideas that you hate and think all the rest of us should hate. There's a time and place for arguing things, but it's not here. I don't even mind that you're commenting on other people's opinions, it's your attitude that's isn't appreciated. Just, don't be such a dick about things. Let people like what they like.