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About the FE Characters...


DMan64
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If you wanted to see another FE Rep, how would you want to see one?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Thoughts on FE reps down the line?

    • Yes, doesn't matter who or when.
      18
    • Yes, just don't use a sword.
      20
    • Yes, just DLC down the line.
      1
    • Yes, but has to not use a sword, and should be DLC.
      4
    • Undecided.
      1
    • No, not until next game.
      0
    • No more FE reps, if anything take some away/replace them.
      2
    • Assist Trophies and items will do good from here on out.
      1
    • Maybe as an Echo Fighter
      1


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So with Chrom being announced yesterday as an echo fighter, some people are excited, some are indifferent, and some are exclaiming "not another FE character!" But I've seen some discussion on what this means for FE reps down the line.  That said, I wanna know what everyone thinks about the subject.  Personally, I believe IF there is a full fledged, new rep down the line as a DLC fighter for either Three Houses or Heroes; and it would be a fighter who doesn't use a sword, or at the very least deviates heavily from it.  And please, remember at the end of the day we all have our opinions and we need to respect them.  I myself am quite indifferent to the situation either way, though I'd really want to see someone who doesn't use a sword.

EDIT - I wanna bring up the fact that Echo fighters do throw a wrench into things, due to them not technically counting as fully fledged fighters.

Edited by DMan64
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Yeah I am, just like everyone on this forum, a huge fan of Fire Emblem.

I would not mind if we got a whole Fire Emblem fighting game in the style of SSB or Soul Calibur

Edited by Truebladee
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@Truebladee  An FE Fighting game like Soul Caliber would be pretty cool, and could really focus on the variety of weapons and class styles, maybe working in the weapon triangle and weapon durability in some fashion. Although I could also see one by Arc System Works(DB Fighterz and BlazBlue); they could work in the weapons triangle in a clever way, and being a tag-team fighter would make total sense given Pair-Up, maybe even giving some cool Support conversations the more you use certain pairs of fighters.  And if they really want to go all out, for fighters likes healers or mounts(which would be difficult to make a fighter) they could have them as support units, where a meter could charge up as you fight and they'd be able to execute a support action.

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@DMan64 Yep. I totally agree with you. 

There are so many possibilities with Fire Emblem (spin-off) games. An 2D fighter game like DB fighter, semi-3D fighter game like Soul Calibur or a 3D fighter game like Pokken with supports. Or even a Dynasty Warriors: Empires game. 

 

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I think there is a place for 1 additional FE character in Smash Bros ultimate, as dlc and a non-sword wielder. I would be baffled if that character is anyone other than Edelgard.

 

As for a theoretical Smash 6, I doubt it will go the Ultimate route. It will probably be a reboot that resets the roster entirely. In that case, I predict that FE will be reduced to a few distinct characters that are relevant to the modern age of the time (as in Marth and possibly Robin would be the only existing reps to carry over, with the rest being from new games).

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@Etheus  That seems to be the second most popular choice thus far.  As for the idea of Smash 6, I agree with the idea that some characters will be removed and they will focus on more distinct class; though I feel Marth, Ike, and Robin would be the mainstays; Marth because he's the first, Ike because of popularity and he's more different than Roy, and Robin because of how different he is.  Corrin maybe, but that's hard to tell.  Any new characters from then I feel would be following Robin and Corrin's example to deviate away from pure swordplay.

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Basically repeating myself since I said something similar on another forum but Chrom might be the last FE character we get for Smash Ultimate and I would be okay with that. Though I guess it is still possible to get a new unique newcomer from FE though they if it's the base roster they would likely pick someone from Fates like Azura or even Anna (hey look two non-sword user options) since that was the most recent title released when Ultimate's roster was decided or if it through DLC it is going to be someone from Three Houses guaranteed and none of them seem to be heavily sword based either. Sorry, but Echoes and Heroes came too late plus most newcomer picks for Ultimate so far seemed to be based heavily on what people wanted back in 2015 and through the voting ballot.

As for a FE fighting game I would be down for that though I fear we would get another FE Warriors situation and everyone would shun the game for too many 'Awakening/Fates' representation.

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@NSSKG151  Understandable; I would agree Chrom was likely only included because of the fan-service nature of the character roster; which itself seems based off of the ballot.  

As the far as the whole, too many AwakaFates characters thing, keep in mind, Warriors began development shortly after Fates release and began development on the New 3DS, only moving to Switch later; Koei Tecmo didn't know about the Choose Your Legends results, thus couldn't base their roster on that, so the backlash was practically inevitable.  That said, both versions of the game combined sold/shipped 1 million, so that's gotta say something about the games quality.  Thus chances are, if we get another FE spin-off, careful consideration of the character roster would be taken into account.

EDIT - Bare in mind, most of the "old-school" characters were upset over, were mostly GBA and Ike, thus if there comes an FE Warriors 2, it will focus on that, and a different FE spin off may try to do both 3DS and GBA games.

@NinjaMonkey  Fair enough view; just curious if characters like Roy, Chrom, and Lucina were removed and replaced with, say 1 or 2 more unique characters, what would you think of it?

Edited by DMan64
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@DMan64 True, IS now has a better idea about the popularity of some of their older characters and I could see Elibe's Lords, Ike and possibly Eirika/Ephraim showing up in a new spinoff but at the same time I still hear too many complaints (mostly over on the Fire Emblem Heroes topic on Serenesforest) that Awakening and Fates have too many units in Heroes and have too many banners dedicated to them and whatnot (though that just might be them complaining about alts in general). Yeah, it is mostly the vocal minority being loud on the internet but it is still annoying to hear at times.

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The series that are represented in Smash will continue to keep growing (well... F-Zero likely won't but that's beside the point) and as such, more and more characters will be made down the line. We're going to get characters that are well recieved and Ultimate will show who everyone's existing favourites are. So basically, I see the cast of more than just Fire Emblem growing in Smash Bros. and hating one series getting representation isn't going to help anything under the circumstance of all of the other series getting more reps when one just stops dead. How's that fair to fans of the newer characters?

Honestly, I think at this point the only thing keeping Captain Falcon alive is that people won't let him die. He gets no new games and has now been in more Smash games than F-Zero games. So this needs changing or he needs to go. Unique or not.

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@Light Strategist Well said, relevancy is a very important factor, and F-Zero hasn't been relevant for some time, and I agree that hating a series for getting reps over another does no one good, as many really do like many of these characters.

As for Captain Falcon, going, well he's one of the legacy characters, so him going would just be too much of an uproar.

@NSSKG151  I think the complaint is primarily about Alts, just cause it's pretty much the same character; even Lyn gets hate for having like 5 versions of her, yet Marth has like one alt.  While I would definitely like to see more characters from other games other than Awakening and Fates, I won't complain because at the end of the day, they are the most relevant, unless the older games get remade, like Echoes. (Also, just putting it out there I don't play Heroes anymore, but I do follow it).

Edit - Writing it now, it made me realize that the FE situation and FE character situation in Smash is kind of similar in some degree.  People want a new F-Zero character, but really F-Zero hasn't been relevant for some time; just as people want the older FE games to have more representation, but the newer games are more successful and relevant, so why focus on something that most people likely won't be familiar with or something that just hasn't been relevant.

Edited by DMan64
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1 minute ago, DMan64 said:

@Light Strategist Well said, relevancy is a very important factor, and F-Zero hasn't been relevant for some time, and I agree that hating a series for getting reps over another does no one good, as many really do like many of these characters.

As for Captain Falcon, going, well he's one of the legacy characters, so him going would just be too much of an uproar.

I used him as an example because he basically personifies the relevancy point. Like I said, he's still in because people WON'T let him die. I don't even play F-Zero and think he needs a new game.

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@Light Strategist  Okay, I see what your saying.  In regards to him getting a new game, we've seen that  Nintendo has a willingness to bring back/have more franchises on the Switch than just Mario and Zelda like back during the Wii and Wii U, seeing Star Fox Zero(attempting to bring back Star Fox to some degree) and Metroid obviously has been getting a ton of love, so who's to say F-Zero won't get a new game.

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@Light Strategist I don't see why Captain Falcon needs to leave just because F Zero has no new games or because only Smash makes him relevant. Going by your logic wouldn't that mean characters like the Earthbound duo, Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers and ROB need to leave as well because they no longer get new games?

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As a little possible fun fact, we have a few pictures from what Smash 64 looked like wayyyyyy before they chose to use Nintendo all stars for it. Back when it was called, painfully generically- Dragon King: The Fighting Game.

Dragon-King--The-Fighting-Game.jpg

Captain Falcon might have actually been based somewhat on these proto-fighters.

 

As for the issue of no new F-Zeroes, it was originally just a tech demo for Mode 7. Then it became Nintendo's pure racer series, with a focus on brutal difficulty that makes Mario Kart look like a slug race. However, without being harder with no item gimmick, nor family-friendly fun/appeal at all, F-Zero caters to a niche audience, and couldn't possibly generate that much revenue. No wonder Nintendo hasn't continued it. Would still like another though, and the American/Japanese superhero-inspired casts have the potential to pop if given the effort.

 

Just now, NSSKG151 said:

Game and Watch, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers and ROB need to leave as well because they no longer get new games?

They as far as I see it, belong to a category called "Retroite", which is comprised of dead series, but which have a lasting nostalgic value as being quintessentially "retro". Mother, Little Mac and even Wii Fit Trainer I would say, although not as old, fall into an extension of this "Retroite" category.

 

As for THE ACTUAL TOPIC at hand, I'd say one more new non-echo character as DLC is enough for FE, and maybe a stage to go with them. No more echoes until we see how many the other big franchises are getting. Okay, I get FE has a lot of popular characters who could be echoed, whereas others do not, but I still don't want to see Eliwood or the Black Knight for the moment.

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50 minutes ago, DMan64 said:

 Fair enough view; just curious if characters like Roy, Chrom, and Lucina were removed and replaced with, say 1 or 2 more unique characters, what would you think of it?

It would depend on who they would be. I wouldn't be against seeing Hector and one of the main characters for Three Houses, but that would be it.

9 minutes ago, DMan64 said:

@Light Strategist Well said, relevancy is a very important factor

Which is why a bunch of characters that aren't really all that relevant nowadays just got confirmed yesterday (plus Chrom).

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This picture sums up my thoughts

image.png?width=276&height=300

 

I don't mind swordfighters. Hell, my mains use swords and my most wanted character (Rex) uses a sword. But for FE, a franchise built around a weapon triangle, there’s a noticeable lack of 2/3 of it.

I don't know if we'll get a new FE character now, at least in the base game. But if we do get an 8th rep, it should be someone who doesn't use a sword. In other words, Hector, Ephraim, Micaiah, Azura and the Three Houses Lords would be good choices.

 

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2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As a little possible fun fact, we have a few pictures from what Smash 64 looked like wayyyyyy before they chose to use Nintendo all stars for it. Back when it was called, painfully generically- Dragon King: The Fighting Game.

Dragon-King--The-Fighting-Game.jpg

Captain Falcon might have actually been based somewhat on these proto-fighters.

I'm pretty sure Captain Falcon being based on that beta fighters is all but confirmed already because what else could they pull from for his moveset but thanks for reminding about that.

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@NSSKG151  He was using it to provide an example of the relevancy point, and @Interdimensional Observer brings up a good point of the retro appeal.  @NinjaMonkey  Nice answer, also for the relevancy point, I was saying that in the sense that normally relevancy is an important factor, but I think it's kind of clear that the Smash Ballot is being taken into account with this game.

@Armagon Yeah, pretty much the situation.

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2 hours ago, DMan64 said:

@Etheus  That seems to be the second most popular choice thus far.  As for the idea of Smash 6, I agree with the idea that some characters will be removed and they will focus on more distinct class; though I feel Marth, Ike, and Robin would be the mainstays; Marth because he's the first, Ike because of popularity and he's more different than Roy, and Robin because of how different he is.  Corrin maybe, but that's hard to tell.  Any new characters from then I feel would be following Robin and Corrin's example to deviate away from pure swordplay.

Ike is a difficult case. He's very popular, but as someone who really, really likes the Tellius games, even I have to admit that the largest source of his popularity is Smash itself - just like Roy. 

I think there is a case to be made for Ike being carried over to a series reboot or for him being left out in favor of giving a new hero his kind of Smash spotlight. I could see this going either way, though I would be disappointed if Ike were ever removed, given that he represents such a bold part of the series' history. 

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Stop with the blue haired swordies, and I think it will be easier to swallow. 

The advent of Echo fighters lessens the burden, but we're still at the critical threshold for swordies in general. 

Thankfully none of the Three Houses protagonists appear to be sword mains, and ideally it'd be one of them who gets in down the line, probably as DLC. My money's on Edelgard.

Edited by Slumber
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Strictly speaking there are five unique FE characters and two glorified alternate costumes, which I'm fine with especially now that echoes can be "stacked" with their originals, and while the representation of weapon types is terrible (as Armagon said) there's nothing that can be done about that now without alienating the fanbase. FE doesn't really need any more characters but I wouldn't be surprised if we got a TH character as DLC.

But that aside, FE is also poorly represented if you ignore the number of playable characters; two of the three stages are generic locations not based on anything in particular, there's one Assist Trophy, it didn't get any items until Ultimate, and trophies are only taken from recent games (so PoR/RD for Brawl and Wii U and Awakening plus Xander/Ryoma for 3DS). Hopefully we'll get another Assist Trophy at least.

Edited by Lightchao42
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I think it's too late with where we are now in Ultimate. The general Smashers' complaints would DEFINITELY be justified if we got any more in this title. I'm just hoping that in the next game the Marth expies get dropped for more unique characters like Ephraim, Azura, or Tiki. An Alm with a moveset based on Arts and his bow and a Celica with a different moveset from Robin would be welcome too,

Edited by Arcphoenix
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1 hour ago, NSSKG151 said:

I'm pretty sure Captain Falcon being based on that beta fighters is all but confirmed already because what else could they pull from for his moveset but thanks for reminding about that.

Cpt. Falcon actually started out as a semi clone of Samus in Smash 64.

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