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Bound Hero Battle: Micaiah & Sothe


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4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Why does IS seem to hate horses so much?.

I seem to recall literally everyone complaining about how broken Horse Emblem teams were for quite some time. I don't really care, if Cavs are your thing you do you and I'll do me unless I end up losing my Arena streak because of your horses, in which case screw you.

In the mean time, where's everyone's favorite Matthew? I haven't seen him in real action for a while now.

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23 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I seem to recall literally everyone complaining about how broken Horse Emblem teams were for quite some time. I don't really care, if Cavs are your thing you do you and I'll do me unless I end up losing my Arena streak because of your horses, in which case screw you.

I don't remember horses ever being broken at all. Good, sure. But broken? Not really. I also don't remember those complaints.

Also, telling someone "screw you" just because you lost to their team is rude.

Anyway, I eventually found a way to do lunatic and infernal. Thank goodness, the orbs will come in handy if I need them for CYL2.

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3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I don't remember horses ever being broken at all. Good, sure. But broken? Not really. I also don't remember those complaints.

Don’t you remember the terrifying Reinhardt/Brave Lyn duo? How everyone had to have a Reinhardt and Brave Lyn counter on their Arena team? How Gronnraven was considered extremely valuable?  Hell, to this day one of the first things people say when they see a new unit is “can they survive Reinhardt?”

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2 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Don’t you remember the terrifying Reinhardt/Brave Lyn duo? How everyone had to have a Reinhardt and Brave Lyn counter on their Arena team? How Gronnraven was considered extremely valuable?  Hell, to this day one of the first things people say when they see a new unit is “can they survive Reinhardt?”

Yeah, and I never had much issue with them unless they had a dancer. And even now, that's still a tough combination to take down sometimes anyway.

Edited by Anacybele
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4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Manipulating the AI? People still think that can be done? I've never found any way to actually do this. There are too many variables. Enemies will move differently at the slightest stat or skill difference.

And if manipulating AI was a thing and is easy, how would a new difficulty help that? Higher difficulties just improve stats and skills, not the actual AI.

Anyway, my horse team is Frederick, legend Ephraim, Reinhardt, and Sigurd. But the trenches and walls prevent me from doing much at all with them.

For most player's it's trial and error. There are several videos you can check out regarding the topic on YouTube and it's what content creators on YouTube/Twitch use to dispatch foes in any content. What I recommend as well is taking a team to TT and auto battle. Record it if you're not capable of processing instant info so fast. Look at how the units behave as it's not just the enemies unit's that are AI, but yours as well with autobattle. You're basically watching two battles at once.

There are certain things to look out for like whether or not your unit counters. The AI likes to prioritize units that can't counterattack despite having color advantage against a unit they're putting aside. Another is that ranged units tend to attack melee first when they can't counterattack, then a melee unit sweeps in. There's also the enemy seeking out the unit who the enemy deals the most damage to whether they're out of range of an enemy or not

Difficulty usually varies for maps depending on the emblem team. Some maps are infantry unfriendly with poison daggers, some anti-horse with trenches and/or anti-Reinhardt measure.

Edited by silveraura25
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2 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

For most player's it's trial and error. There are several videos you can check out regarding the topic on YouTube and it's what content creators on YouTube/Twitch use to dispatch foes in any content. What I recommend as well is taking a team to TT and auto battle. Record it if you're not capable of processing instant info so fast. Look at how the units behave as it's not just the enemies unit's that are AI, but yours as well with autobattle. You're basically watching two battles at once.

There are certain things to look out for like whether or not your unit counters. The AI likes to prioritize units that can't counterattack despite having color advantage against a unit they're putting aside. Another is that ranged units tend to attack melee first when they can't counterattack, then a melee unit sweeps in. There's also the enemy seeking out the unit who the enemy deals the most damage to if out of range of an enemy

Difficulty usually varies for maps depending on the emblem team. Some maps are infantry unfriendly with poison daggers, some anti-horse with trenches and/or anti-Reinhardt measure.

I see. I don't have the means of recording though. And I just don't feel like spending a lot of time figuring this stuff out. Maybe it's a bit lazy, but...yeah. but I have picked up on more basic things like the AI prioritizing units that can't counter. They also seem to prioritize healers and dancers.

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Just now, Anacybele said:

I see. I don't have the means of recording though. And I just don't feel like spending a lot of time figuring this stuff out. Maybe it's a bit lazy, but...yeah. but I have picked up on more basic things like the AI prioritizing units that can't counter. They also seem to prioritize healers and dancers.

I use a app called DU recorder. Completely free. And don't worry about time management. Just watch while on a bus/train/whatever when you don't have anything to do in the game

A bit of a easy way of doing it is just taking notes when you watch the videos. You can have them be made in any format whether physical and/or digital. As long as you can carry them around.

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2 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

I use a app called DU recorder. Completely free. And don't worry about time management. Just watch while on a bus/train/whatever when you don't have anything to do in the game

A bit of a easy way of doing it is just taking notes when you watch the videos. You can have them be made in any format whether physical and/or digital. As long as you can carry them around.

I play Pokemon GO when I'm going out somewhere though. But I might consider the rest of this.

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@kirauza343 lol Enemy Micaiah ruin your Cherche enemy phase kill. Sadly, why you use Micaiah kill her husbando?

Anyways, Marisa use her muscle tank and deal chunk of damage on that lance fighter, great job. Also nice to hear Celica's special proc line as my Celica use AOE special.

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2 hours ago, Nanima said:

Here's my clear with the Takusquad:

Mono colored clears are always fascinating, your theme is cool. Super close call with Tak-Tak eating the special of that Vantage mage. 

Funny how Micaiah wasted all her HP for healing even before the Skadi bomb could take something from her. 

Good positioning in the end, nice touch giving Sakura the finisher, congrats! 

1 hour ago, kirauza343 said:

 I wondered how you going to manage between the trench tiles and Micaiah's guard/miracle and I gotta say savage blowing her health below that threshold was a brilliant way to deal with that. I'm curious though how this would've been affected if Micaiah's miracle started just one charge lower.

Thanks!

To be honest, a precharged Miracle wouldn't have changed much, since Micaiahs low speed makes it easy to quad her. The difficult part was to quad her without killing her too early. If Roy wasn't able to kill her in four blows because of miracle and WTA, Cherche wouldn't have taken a sweat doing the job. 

In my One Turn clear of Raven & Lucius' BHB you can see that Lucius' Miracle didn't stop Cherche. 

1 hour ago, kirauza343 said:

but ultimately I'm happy with how it turned out

How you let Marisa tank mages (plus a lance here!) is always surprising, but if course it charges her deadly Ignis. 

Micaiah killing both herself and Sothe was a cool side-goal you archived. Like you wrote, enemy-Micaiah helped by dimishing her own HP before. 

Like @Ginko wrote, nice to hear special quotes of Celica and Cherche, since AoE and Galeforce don't show these. 

Once again a nice clear of your girls, congrats! 

1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

In the mean time, where's everyone's favorite Matthew? I haven't seen him in real action for a while now.

@Zeo didn't miss to clear any GHB/BHB/LHB in the last months? I'm pretty sure this map won't stop his Matthew either. 

 

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3 minutes ago, DLNarshen said:

@mampfoid Nice work!  This map certainly looked a lot more challenging than it winded up being.  Congrats on the Cordelia as well!  Now you can get even more Galeforce fodder. x) 

Double thanks! 

Yeah, I hope Cordelias keep coming in, because I want to distribute the skill. Possible candidates: NY!Azura, Raven, M!Marth, Mia, SA!Cordelia, L!Hector (if ever get one), Caeda, Minerva, Tana, Hana, Donnel ... etc. 

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@kirauza343

Thanks! I had a lot fo fun with it. It took a lot for Sakura to even damage Micaiah at all, but it was nice to be able to execute it. 

Your Micaiah did a really solid job tanking Sothe. Unless I run a DC Armour team I'm always wary about taking a hit from him and would normally get obliterated. It was nice to see her not take any of his nonsense.

23 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Mono colored clears are always fascinating, your theme is cool. Super close call with Tak-Tak eating the special of that Vantage mage. 

Funny how Micaiah wasted all her HP for healing even before the Skadi bomb could take something from her. 

Good positioning in the end, nice touch giving Sakura the finisher, congrats! 

Thanks to you too! When i first started out with this, Sakura was only going to be a temporary member until we got a 4th Takumi, but now I find myself unable to bench her, so the theme stuck. Maybe once I actually pull Sakunyan in the November rerun I'll have an even number of Hoshidan baby sibs on the team. Tak-Tak did indeed suprise me by taking that one. His resistance is so low I usually wouldn't think of having him attack a vantage mage, but he managed to barely take it.

Yeah, the Ai has weird priorities sometimes.

She needed a lot of attack stacking to be able to do that, but it was completely worth it. I just love overcoming an extremely high Defense/Resistance stat.

As for your own clear (which I hadn't seen when I posted mine), Galeforce really is an amazing skill to have. And all your units manage to pull it off beautifully each time. I wonder why the enemies even bother showing up when they never get to do anything. haha  

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12 minutes ago, Nanima said:

When i first started out with this, Sakura was only going to be a temporary member until we got a 4th Takumi, but now I find myself unable to bench her, so the theme stuck.

Since all six Takumis and Sakuras are colorless, keeping up the color theme will remain possible for you. 

12 minutes ago, Nanima said:

As for your own clear (which I hadn't seen when I posted mine), Galeforce really is an amazing skill to have. And all your units manage to pull it off beautifully each time. I wonder why the enemies even bother showing up when they never get to do anything. haha 

Yeah, Galeforce is fun, that's my theme and thus I'm trying to build my units around it. Too bad ranged dragon units can't inherit GF. 

/Edit: Btw, if you don't mind I'll tag you next time. 

Edited by mampfoid
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15 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Since all six Takumis and Sakuras are colorless, keeping up the color theme will remain possible for you. 

Yeah, Galeforce is fun, that's my theme and thus I'm trying to build my units around it. Too bad ranged dragon units can't inherit GF. 

/Edit: Btw, if you don't mind I'll tag you next time. 

Originally I just wanted to show Takumi beating challenges "by himself", after he started really sinking in the tier lists. The colour theme was incidental, but I guess Intsys jsut wants to go that route. 

It does seem like a lot of fun, considering you can just tell frustrating maps to screw themselves. 

Oh, and I would like that! 

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I wrote up an Infernal strategy for a relatively gacha-free team of Olivia, BK, Fjorm, and Genny, but I've since edited the strategy such that Wrathful Staff is not needed. As such, someone like Lissa with Gravity+ and a Dazzling refine can be substituted for Genny. The map here is conducive to bottle-necking, making the Gravity+ staff especially effective. Genny had Atk+3, Savage Blow 3, & Savage Blow 1 SS; Fjorm had the QR SS. Olivia and BK should be fine with just their base kits, but you can throw a Hone Atk seal on BK if your healer needs more Atk at the end.

Here is the strategy. Note, for the first picture, I just kept the panels from my original run, so Genny will have Wrathful staff, and the HP numbers will be different in the pic, but the moves are the same.

Spoiler

KVg800B.jpg

The first panel shows the positioning of the units at the start. First, Genny attacks the lancer, then Olivia dances for her, and then Genny moves to the safe spot up and to the right (panel 2). End Turn 1.

On the enemy phase, most of the units try to advance towards Genny. The Gravity effect plus the bottleneck prevents the green cav mage from moving.

Turn 2 begins with the units as shown in the third panel. We'll have Genny attack Sothe, then Olivia will dance for her, and then she moves to safety below Olivia. Fjorm moves to bait the red mage. The fourth panel shows the position at the end of Turn 2.

For the EP, the red mage suicides on Fjorm, and most of the enemies cluster up in a line, hindered by the Gravity effects. The last panel shows the start of Turn 3.

DXNV6lb.jpg

For Turn 3, we're going to have Fjorm move up a block, as shown in the first panel, preparing to tank and kill both Micaiah and the green cav mage. BK will move a block left, Genny will attack the swordsman, Olivia will dance for her, and then she'll move below BK. The second panel shows the end of this turn.

The third panel shows the positioning at the start of the next turn. Here, I had Genny finish off Sothe with some dancing help from Olivia. BK attacked the swordsman, and the turn ended. For the next turn, I just had Genny finish off the swordsman, and then BK handily took care of the remaining lancer.

My first clear was achieved on my first try with Tiki, PA Azura, Deirdre, and Genny. It was essentially another chapter in the unending saga of Tiki Tanks Things, with some useful kiting on Genny's part. That's what inspired the strategy I wrote up.

14 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Micaiah & Sothe Infernal in one turn:

I like this one; I thought the one-turn clear might pose a bit of a challenge this time, what with all of the trenches and pillars, but apparently not!

7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I see. I don't have the means of recording though. And I just don't feel like spending a lot of time figuring this stuff out. Maybe it's a bit lazy, but...yeah. but I have picked up on more basic things like the AI prioritizing units that can't counter. They also seem to prioritize healers and dancers.

In my view, the idea of recording video just to learn what the AI is going to do just seems like going way too far. Moreover, it's probably going to give you the wrong set of rules, since the AI for your team's auto-battle is usually different from the AI used for the enemy. The AI for the enemy usually prioritizes dealing the most damage; the AI for your side during auto-battle prioritizes taking the least amount of damage.

Instead, check out the "Arena Rules" section of this article on the AI: https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/AI

For the most part, a sophisticated understanding of the AI isn't necessary. The AI will generally prioritize the units they can do the most damage to, and they will move towards the unit they can do the most damage to when all units are outside attacking range and they don't have an assist.

Edited by Astellius
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13 minutes ago, Astellius said:

In my view, the idea of recording video just to learn what the AI is going to do just seems like going way too far. Moreover, it's probably going to give you the wrong set of rules, since the AI for your team's auto-battle is usually different from the AI used for the enemy. The AI for the enemy usually prioritizes dealing the most damage; the AI for your side during auto-battle prioritizes taking the least amount of damage.

Instead, check out the "Arena Rules" section of this article on the AI: https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/AI

For the most part, a sophisticated understanding of the AI isn't necessary. The AI will generally prioritize the units they can do the most damage to, and they will move towards the unit they can do the most damage to when all units are outside attacking range and they don't have an assist.

Ah, okay. I'd rather read an article than spend time recording videos anyway. Thanks.

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Well, it looks like this map was a big F-U to my usual go-to team featuring Titania and the Rachel, so I tackled this one with Bridelia, two Dancers, and Fae.  I don't think Fae did anything besides emotional support, though.

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By all means, keep pointlessly dropping your HP, Miccy. Saves me having to navigate around your bodyguards.

Not a whole lot to say about this one, Dark Spikes F!Grima with Tactics boosts almost completely trivialized this map. Using an AOE special to hit multiple enemies causes Micaiah to heal them constantly, tanking her HP and keeping her from attacking. The only real problem was making sure people didn't trip over each other during that one retreat.

Frankly I'm (not) looking forward to the inevitable revival of this BHB that asks for a cavalry clear.

Edited by Some Jerk
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58 minutes ago, Astellius said:

I wrote up an Infernal strategy for a relatively gacha-free team of Olivia, BK, Fjorm, and Genny.

Nice strategy. I didn't try to replicate that, but wouldn't be a healer like Lissa with dazzling refinement (but without Wrathful) instead of Genny enough? Wrazzle/Dazzle is still rare, even with the addition of Maribelle. 

58 minutes ago, Astellius said:

I like this one; I thought the one-turn clear might pose a bit of a challenge this time, what with all of the trenches and pillars, but apparently not!

Glad you liked it! (just tell me if you want a tag next time)

The trench above starting position #2 would have been truly evil if moved 1 tile up and 1 right. 

22 minutes ago, Some Jerk said:

By all means, keep pointlessly dropping your HP, Miccy. Saves me having to navigate around your bodyguards.

Yeah, this time the unique assist on the boss was helpful for the players, in contrast to L!Lucinas Vision. 

I was waiting for the moment your BK would use his WoM, but that skill wasn't equipped at all ... instead Grima kills everyone. Sigh, I want her. Congrats! 

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Wasn't too bad, but wasn't as easy for me as it seems it was for a lot of people. Once I stopped being an idiot and remembered you could reposition over trenches, that cinched it. I will say, all the walls and trenches really didn't do much to hinder horse emblem though.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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@mampfoid Nice as usual! It's always interesting to see full PP clears on this maps, since I usually end up just having Camilla absorb half the units on enemy phase instead. (which is exactly what happened again this time)

And congrats on Cordelia! Now that she and Cherche are maxed out, you just need them to rerun CYL1 to get some more Roy copies.

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