Tier 4 Skills

[Ae†her]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

The trainee BST formula is different from the gen II BST formula, and their purpose and implementation are different. Trainee BST was used as a reference to the series and it has been in the game since launch. Gen II BST was implemented way after launch, and it is the new standardized BST sytem to balance the game due to melee units being crap.

I mean I feel like  "gen II" is pretty much because of how good the units made by "gen I" were. If we look today ranged units are getting BST increases a lot as well.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

I mean I feel like  "gen II" is pretty much because of how good the units made by "gen I" were. If we look today ranged units are getting BST increases a lot as well.

Ranged infantry and fliers get smaller boosts than melee infantry and fliers, respectively:

Gen 2 ranged fliers gain +5% to their growth rate total. Melee fliers gain +10%.
Infantry gain the same as fliers with the same range, but with an additional +1 to their level-1 stat total.

Trainees are a completely different category, getting a -8 penalty to their level-1 stat total, but receiving +30% to their growth rate total.

 

Gen 2's stat bonuses serve two purposes: It attempts to balance units better according to their movement type and attack range (by giving larger boosts to infantry, armors, and melee units to widen the gap) and it slightly weakens the more dominant offensive play styles by allowing bulkier units to be created without sacrificing as much damage potential.

[Usana]

Not really tier 4, but I would like to see upgrades to the likes of Drag Back, Hit and Run, and Knock Back. Tier 2 of these could apply debuffs. So lets say Knock Back pushes foe back one space and inflicts ATK/SPD/DEF/RES -4 on foe due to foe being 'knocked off balance'. Hit and Run could perhaps take a rather more different route. Have it effectively come with a built in omnisweep skill. So if faster than foe, foe can not counter attack and unit can not follow up, but unit retreats one space after combat. After combat Drag Back could seal the foe's ability to counter attack due to the fact that the foe is busy being grappled. Making it a skill aimed at 'dragging' a foe into position to be killed.

Not exactly super useful effects. With the retreat skills you mostly use them to get space from the allies of someone you just killed. Or at least that seems to be the common use. Some might even see such a hit and run as a downgrade since it would lock out your ability to double. Knock back. I am not sure if I have ever seen that seriously used or not or if a seal all would even begin to help it out. But point is give them something as a small bonus and make them worth more so they aren't dead weight scoring wise.

[Humanoid]

Give Knock Back 2 the ability to push units off cliffs or into the sea, which would kill them if not a flier. This could apply for Drag Back too.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Humanoid

[Usana]

5 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Give Knock Back 2 the ability to push units off cliffs or into the sea, which would kill them if not a flier. This could apply for Drag Back too.

That would be hilarious, but for some reason I think folks would complain :P. I would be abusing sweep so much if I could do that. Oh you think your Lukas is hot stuff, do you? Say hello to Caeda.

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Give Knock Back 2 the ability to push units off cliffs or into the sea, which would kill them if not a flier. This could apply for Drag Back too.

That sounds OP, but it's actually pretty situational. Make it an A Skill with limited access and it might just be viable.

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Usana said:

Not really tier 4, but I would like to see upgrades to the likes of Drag Back, Hit and Run, and Knock Back. Tier 2 of these could apply debuffs. So lets say Knock Back pushes foe back one space and inflicts ATK/SPD/DEF/RES -4 on foe due to foe being 'knocked off balance'. Hit and Run could perhaps take a rather more different route. Have it effectively come with a built in omnisweep skill. So if faster than foe, foe can not counter attack and unit can not follow up, but unit retreats one space after combat. After combat Drag Back could seal the foe's ability to counter attack due to the fact that the foe is busy being grappled. Making it a skill aimed at 'dragging' a foe into position to be killed.

I am not sure about upgrading Hit and Run into a Sweep. Regular Weapon-Hit and Run 2 is inferior to Firesweep-Hit and Run 1, and Brave users cannot use Sweep effectively.

I like the other ideas though.

For Lunge, the skill can do Panic and Gravity on adjacent enemies to simulate being stunned with fear from having their formation broken.

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Give Knock Back 2 the ability to push units off cliffs or into the sea, which would kill them if not a flier. This could apply for Drag Back too.

Sounds awesome. Great for Lunge too.

[Usana]

@XRay Doh! I completely forgot about Lunge! Yeah panic sounds awesome for that.

And I tend to agree with your assessment of the Hit and Run I proposed. But when it came to that one I was mostly drawing blanks. The only other thing that popped up was 'retreats 2 spaces if foe cannot counter attack'. But that sorta pigeonholes it into working mostly for firesweep. Plus not sure if we want units being able to retreat two spaces.

[XRay]

10 hours ago, Usana said:

@XRay Doh! I completely forgot about Lunge! Yeah panic sounds awesome for that.

And I tend to agree with your assessment of the Hit and Run I proposed. But when it came to that one I was mostly drawing blanks. The only other thing that popped up was 'retreats 2 spaces if foe cannot counter attack'. But that sorta pigeonholes it into working mostly for firesweep. Plus not sure if we want units being able to retreat two spaces.

Maybe it can disable Vantage or something and leave the opponent with a Candlelight status effect.

I prefer retreating 2 spaces though, since that also works for Lyn and Brave units since the opponent usually dies in two hits.

[Garlyle]

Instant kill assist skill probably wont happen, but the idea is interesting to say the least.