Some Weapon Ideas

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Programmers and testers hate "unique cases".

 

No, this fundamentally changes how skills that affect weapon types works and potentially also how Skill Inheritance works. If your unit's color is determined by the weapon it is carrying, then it's no longer determined by the unit itself.

This would also completely screw up Skill Inheritance on skills that are restricted solely by color (colored Weaponbreakers and Triangle Adept).

 

The weapon workout quests require kills with colorless bows and colorless daggers. Similarly, Bowbreaker, Daggerbreaker, and Assassin Bow only work against colorless units.

It really wouldn't though. Any unit equipped with a reaver weapon would still be their default colour and only be able to inherit the skills associated with that colour. Their colour would just change when their fielded. Mechanically that would not at all be difficult to implement.

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

It really wouldn't though. Any unit equipped with a reaver weapon would still be their default colour and only be able to inherit the skills associated with that colour. Their colour would just change when their fielded. Mechanically that would not at all be difficult to implement.

I'm talking about your idea to make colored bows and daggers a property of the weapon that overrides the color of the unit.

"Reaver" colors do not correspond to any of the existing three colors of the weapon triangle. Swordreaver is effective against blue and weak to green, which matches no color. You'd need to expand the current 4-color system to 7 colors (or 4 colors plus "diacritics"), which is unnecessary complexity.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Hilda]

17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm talking about your idea to make colored bows and daggers a property of the weapon that overrides the color of the unit.

"Reaver" colors do not correspond to any of the existing three colors of the weapon triangle. Swordreaver is effective against blue and weak to green, which matches no color. You'd need to expand the current 4-color system to 7 colors (or 4 colors plus "diacritics"), which is unnecessary complexity.

they could work somethign out like with the Red Exclamation mark for effectiv type weapons.

[Roflolxp54]

@Jotari I'm of the opinion that Reaver weapons would be a godawful weapon archetype to implement for a few reasons:

FEH is a mobile gacha game aimed at a more casual audience - such as those who don't have a lot time to spend playing video games. It doesn't need to be overly complicated especially as one of the fundamental mechanics is the RPS one that is the color triangle. Hit/Avoid and random critical hits are likely not in FEH to make the gameplay simple and not random, especially as much of the randomness in FEH comes from the gacha.

What would Reaver weapons add to the game besides being a complete headache for the player? The game is built around having a team of 4 units, which is apparently something quite a few players seem to forget, especially when creating unit builds and running them through a combat simulator. Use those 4 team slots.

Damage-boosting specials already break the game, especially now that there are skills that reduce cooldown, speed up cooldown, add more true damage during special procs, or any of the above (which has shown to already be capable of breaking the weapon triangle anyways!). We don't need Reaver weapons to break the game further.

It'll likely be a programming nightmare and I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation of Reaver weapons could lead to some "literally unplayable" moments thanks to glitches and exploits.

[MilodicMellodi]

Yeah, I think Reaver weapons would too much. We already have enough with Bowbreaker being able to technically reverse-Break Legendaries Lucina and Lyn.

[Roflolxp54]

16 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Yeah, I think Reaver weapons would too much. We already have enough with Bowbreaker being able to technically reverse-Break Legendaries Lucina and Lyn.

Bowbreaker only affects colorless bow units. It has no effect on colored bow units like Legend Lyn and Legend Lucina.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Bowbreaker only affects colorless bow units. It has no effect on colored bow units like Legend Lyn and Legend Lucina.

It's for reasons like that I wish bows and knives just remained colourless completely.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Jotari

[Roflolxp54]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

It's for reasons like that I wish bows and knives just remained colourless completely.

Before the updates added colored bows and daggers, physical ranged units were colorless only. Introducing colored physical ranged units such as Legend Lyn and Legend Lucina basically gave players a few more options without changing the game too much; after all, colored physical ranged units have to obey the color triangle unlike their colorless cousins. The non-existence of colored bowbreaker or colored daggerbreaker is fine since there are so few of such units that they would actually be used on that they'd basically be discarded to the wayside for more splashable B-skills. I mean, who even unironically use Daggerbreaker 3 or Assassin Bow+ anymore in pseudo-PvP gamemodes or in the player's hands? And we still don't have Breathbreaker (until Legend Marth and his Binding Shield came along) or Staffbreaker. Simply put, colored bows and daggers added something somewhat new but nothing that changes the overall game.

As for the colored physical ranged units, none of them are particularly gamebreaking at all, especially since they're ranged units and therefore have lower BST compared to melee units. Many players consider Legend Lyn to be the worst Legendary Hero due to her statline and her questionable unique A-slot (even though she does have the gimmick of being the only green unit able to run a Firesweep weapon). Legend Lucina is only annoying at most but is plenty manageable as a threat - if you already have a bulky green mage built (ie. TA3+Gronnraven+QR Boey/F!Robin), you're pretty much good to go. As for colored dagger units (Ryoma and Elincia), they're more prized as seasonal dancers and potential fodder for players' more heavily invested (and most likely colorless) dagger waifu/husbando unit. And we don't have a red bow or red dagger unit right now - perhaps we'd see one in a future banner.

[Ice Dragon]

28 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Many players consider Legend Lyn to be the worst Legendary Hero due to her statline and her questionable unique A-slot (even though she does have the gimmick of being the only green unit able to run a Firesweep weapon).

The reason she's ranked low is because her stat spread and unique skill are designed for ranged tanking, which is not a very important role in competitive play. Her stats with the boosts from Swift Mulagir and Laws of Sacae are similar to that of a Distant Counter melee unit, trading out the ability to counterattack at melee range for the ability of initiate combat at range.

 

37 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

As for colored dagger units (Ryoma and Elincia), they're more prized as seasonal dancers and potential fodder for players' more heavily invested (and most likely colorless) dagger waifu/husbando unit.

All of the daggers are now dragon slayers. Ryoma and Elincia are more specialized for a single color of dragon.

[riccochet]

On 02/09/2018 at 12:41 AM, Icelerate said:

Can I add exclusive weapons for my boys Nolan, Edward and Leonardo? 

 

 

I got some ideas:

 

Tarvos (Nolan) - Grants Def+3. Steady Breath built-in.

Caladbolg (Edward) - Grants HP+5. Grants bonus to Attack and Speed = 30% of damage dealt to unit (maximum of +6 to both stats).

Lungasadh (Leonardo) - Grants Spd+3. Chill Spd built-in.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Before the updates added colored bows and daggers, physical ranged units were colorless only. Introducing colored physical ranged units such as Legend Lyn and Legend Lucina basically gave players a few more options without changing the game too much; after all, colored physical ranged units have to obey the color triangle unlike their colorless cousins. The non-existence of colored bowbreaker or colored daggerbreaker is fine since there are so few of such units that they would actually be used on that they'd basically be discarded to the wayside for more splashable B-skills. I mean, who even unironically use Daggerbreaker 3 or Assassin Bow+ anymore in pseudo-PvP gamemodes or in the player's hands? And we still don't have Breathbreaker (until Legend Marth and his Binding Shield came along) or Staffbreaker. Simply put, colored bows and daggers added something somewhat new but nothing that changes the overall game.

As for the colored physical ranged units, none of them are particularly gamebreaking at all, especially since they're ranged units and therefore have lower BST compared to melee units. Many players consider Legend Lyn to be the worst Legendary Hero due to her statline and her questionable unique A-slot (even though she does have the gimmick of being the only green unit able to run a Firesweep weapon). Legend Lucina is only annoying at most but is plenty manageable as a threat - if you already have a bulky green mage built (ie. TA3+Gronnraven+QR Boey/F!Robin), you're pretty much good to go. As for colored dagger units (Ryoma and Elincia), they're more prized as seasonal dancers and potential fodder for players' more heavily invested (and most likely colorless) dagger waifu/husbando unit. And we don't have a red bow or red dagger unit right now - perhaps we'd see one in a future banner.

I know why they were added, but like I said, I'd rather they were a property of the weapon rather than the user. "This weapon grants weapon triangle advantage against blue foes and grants weapon triangle disadvantage against red foes" like the weapons that grant WTA against colourless units. To me that would feel much more special and would let bows (and knives) retain a sense of identity. I feel now that they've done colourless bows the connection between weapon and colour means much less. Colour is just something units have rather than something that represents the weapon they're using.

[MilodicMellodi]

Okay, so I'm wrong about Bowbreaker (tbh it wouldn't be too much if they simply made it bows and not colorless bows, it's not like they're going to mass-produce colored bows...). Still, I might as well put in a weapon idea I had for Bolverk.

Bolverk. Axe, 16 Might.
Effect: At start of turn, bonuses become penalties on all foes in cardinal directions with HP 1 or more lower than unit in foe's next action. After combat, if unit attacked, foe is inflicted with the following status: "Penalties on unit cannot be converted into bonuses through unit's next action."

Essentially, it's a Panic Ploy weapon with an anti-Harsh Command effect. I tried to make the effect based on intimidation factor, which is what Garon exudes in spades. Nothing's more intimidating for an Emblem team than being unable to reverse Panic.

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I feel now that they've done colourless bows the connection between weapon and colour means much less. Colour is just something units have rather than something that represents the weapon they're using.

WIth the currently existing units, you can interpret the colored bows and daggers as characters with a connection to an element strong enough to imbue any colorless weapon they hold with that element. For Lyn and Elincia, it's wind. For Lucina, light. For Ryoma, thunder.

 

4 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Essentially, it's a Panic Ploy weapon with an anti-Harsh Command effect. I tried to make the effect based on intimidation factor, which is what Garon exudes in spades. Nothing's more intimidating for an Emblem team than being unable to reverse Panic.

That's not how Panic works.

Panic doesn't convert bonuses into penalties and then disappear. Panic is a persistent effect that makes bonuses behave as if they were negative while it is active. Think of Panic as a lens over the bonuses that make them appear to be flipped. They're still bonuses behind the lens, but when they reach your eye, they're upside down.

Harsh Command can only convert penalties into bonuses. It can't do anything to bonuses that are negative, and if you try to convert actual penalties into bonuses while Panic is still in effect, they simply turn into negative bonuses (if the unit already has negative bonuses, the bonus or penalty with the higher absolute value will override the other in the bonus slot).

[MilodicMellodi]

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's not how Panic works.

Panic doesn't convert bonuses into penalties and then disappear. Panic is a persistent effect that makes bonuses behave as if they were negative while it is active. Think of Panic as a lens over the bonuses that make them appear to be flipped. They're still bonuses behind the lens, but when they reach your eye, they're upside down.

Harsh Command can only convert penalties into bonuses. It can't do anything to bonuses that are negative, and if you try to convert actual penalties into bonuses while Panic is still in effect, they simply turn into negative bonuses (if the unit already has negative bonuses, the bonus or penalty with the higher absolute value will override the other in the bonus slot).

So what you're saying is that Intelligent Systems decided that it wasn't confusing enough, so they made us have to differentiate between different types of stat debuffs? And what you're saying is that the Panic status is unaffected whatsoever by Harsh Command?
Why don't they just make Harsh Command able to simply make all temporarily-lowered stats into bonuses equal to the value of said lowered stats? I mean, everyone complains that Panic Ploy is too powerful, IS is all like "oh no what do we do, Panic Ploy is too powerful", but no let's just make everything confusing. Let's add colored colorless weapons, defense-choosing weapons, and motherfucking Arden who's able to go up to nearly 100 HP (if not actually there, I forget if he's able to). But no, simplifying something like debuffs is too hard.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

So what you're saying is that Intelligent Systems decided that it wasn't confusing enough, so they made us have to differentiate between different types of stat debuffs? And what you're saying is that the Panic status is unaffected whatsoever by Harsh Command?
Why don't they just make Harsh Command able to simply make all temporarily-lowered stats into bonuses equal to the value of said lowered stats? I mean, everyone complains that Panic Ploy is too powerful, IS is all like "oh no what do we do, Panic Ploy is too powerful", but no let's just make everything confusing. Let's add colored colorless weapons, defense-choosing weapons, and motherfucking Arden who's able to go up to nearly 100 HP (if not actually there, I forget if he's able to). But no, simplifying something like debuffs is too hard.

I don't find panic that hard to understand. So long as it's active (helped by having an icon) your positives become your negatives and your negatives stay negative. Simple as that. It would be much if Harsh Command had an additional effect of healing panic though, that would make it more useful. I honestly dont run Harsh Command on anyone (I do run Micaiah's sacrifice though which occasionally comes in useful for Harsh Command purposes) as I find enemy debuffs aren't useually that damaging and if they are I typically just avoid for that turn.

58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

WIth the currently existing units, you can interpret the colored bows and daggers as characters with a connection to an element strong enough to imbue any colorless weapon they hold with that element. For Lyn and Elincia, it's wind. For Lucina, light. For Ryoma, thunder.

That is the logic I work under for Manaketes who don't bother me at all with their shared weapon pool. Maybe it's because they don't use weapons at all and were like that from the start so I just see it as being there thing.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

47 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

So what you're saying is that Intelligent Systems decided that it wasn't confusing enough, so they made us have to differentiate between different types of stat debuffs? And what you're saying is that the Panic status is unaffected whatsoever by Harsh Command?
Why don't they just make Harsh Command able to simply make all temporarily-lowered stats into bonuses equal to the value of said lowered stats? I mean, everyone complains that Panic Ploy is too powerful, IS is all like "oh no what do we do, Panic Ploy is too powerful", but no let's just make everything confusing. Let's add colored colorless weapons, defense-choosing weapons, and motherfucking Arden who's able to go up to nearly 100 HP (if not actually there, I forget if he's able to). But no, simplifying something like debuffs is too hard.

You can blame the translators, actually.

The English translation of the skill description for the Panic staff is

"After combat, if unit attacked, converts bonuses on foe into penalties through its next action."

which is blatantly incorrect. The game mechanics clearly differentiate between bonuses and penalties as can be seen by Blizzard not receiving any damage bonus from an opponent that only has Panicked bonuses and the fact that when you tap on a unit's stats, it shows you the bonus and penalty separately (both are negative if the unit is Panicked, and Panicked bonuses still appear with the "bonus" label).

The Japanese skill description for the Panic staff is

"戦闘中に攻撃していれば、戦闘後に敵の強化を＋ではなく－とする（敵の次回行動終了まで）"

which translates as

"If unit attacked during combat, after combat, foe's bonuses are no longer considered positive, but negative (until the end of foe's next action)."

which notably does not use the word for penalty (弱化) at all and indicates that the change is not with the value of the bonus, but how the bonus is interpreted.

 

Additionally, the Japanese skill description for Harsh Command is also rather clear:

"対象が受けている弱化を無効化し、強化に変換する"

which translates as

"Target's penalties are nullified and converted into bonuses."

Edited September 3, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

9 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

So what you're saying is that Intelligent Systems decided that it wasn't confusing enough, so they made us have to differentiate between different types of stat debuffs? And what you're saying is that the Panic status is unaffected whatsoever by Harsh Command?

It may make more sense if you see your unit getting buffed and debuffed at the same time. Once you see it in action and use the relevant skills, it is pretty easy to grasp the concept.

Spoiler

Imagine each stat sort of like an equation:
# = Base + (+(Buff)) + (-(Debuff))

We will use the following numbers from my BB!Cordelia as an example:
43 = 44 + (+(3)) + (-(4))
Basically, she got hit with a Ploy and got a Rally Atk/Spd at the same time.

Harsh Command eliminates the red number and turns it into a green number.
48 = 44 + (+(4)) + (-(0))

Panic changes the sign of the bonus.
37 = 44 + (-(3)) + (-(4))
Ignore this part. Unlike an actual math equation, the reversed buff does not actually stack with the debuff, so you will end up with -4 (or whichever debuff is bigger) instead of -7.

Using Harsh Command on my Panicked BB!Cordelia would basically do the following:
40 = 44 + (-(4)) + (-(0))

9 hours ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I mean, everyone complains that Panic Ploy is too powerful, IS is all like "oh no what do we do, Panic Ploy is too powerful", but no let's just make everything confusing.

I do not think anyone complains about Panic Ploy. For optimized teams, Panic Ploy is a minor annoyance at most, if not completely irrelevant. As a Player Phase player, Panic Ploy is easy to avoid and we can just retreat and regroup if we are hit by it. For Enemy Phase teams, Panic literally does nothing; Wards are easier to use with the added benefit of being immune to Panic.

Edited September 3, 2018 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

57 minutes ago, XRay said:

Unlike an actual math equation, the reversed buff does not actually stack with the debuff, so you will end up with -4 (or whichever debuff is bigger) instead of -7.

Bonuses always stack with penalties regardless of the sign:

[XRay]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Bonuses always stack with penalties regardless of the sign:

Oh, so it is like a normal equation. I thought they did not stack. Good to know!

[Corrobin]

Brave Dagger.

Wo Dao Bow.

[Kruggov]

4 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Brave Dagger.

Wo Dao Bow.

Wo Dao bow would be OK at best compared to Brave/Firesweep. As for Brave Dagger, it would be broken for the same reason Brave Bow is, except with debuffs on top of that.