New summoning banner: Doorway to Destiny

[Alkaid]

26 minutes ago, Azuni said:

Ethlyn is definitely the highlight of this new set for me, another 5* troubadour is always welcome for Gravity+ lockdown in AA.

This. Even though I have Veronica, Elise and Maribelle, another free staff cav is always welcome. I wonder if she'll come with one of those new balm skills for fodder, too.

[Stroud]

I take Ethlyn over the other Troubadours any day. I hope the artist will do her right.
Don't forget that she is the first playable Troubadour in Fire emblem, she has a right to be in the game.

I expected her to be in the banner, but Ethlyn as a TT unit sounds good enough. Maybe I try my luck at Quan.
Only Tatiana and Brady remain and I have all my most wanted healers.

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Stroud

[Sunwoo]

As someone who didn't free-pick Veronica and has Leif, I'm more than happy to get free Ethlyn. Because this means I can reunite Leif with his mother without fighting the summoning pool for her. Plus, even if I did pick Veronica, all of my other healers have maxed out their HM. Ethlyn means I can finally gain HM with healers again.

[Anacybele]

37 minutes ago, Othin said:

Personally, I rarely use any recent TT units, but I'm always happy to expand my collection of characters regardless. I've been looking forward to Ethlyn's addition for at least a year now, and I'm glad to get a free copy. Certainly better than the past two TTs of no new units at all, and no worse than ones like Canas. Free BK was cool but unsustainable.

It's a bit weird that she won't be in the regular summoning pool, but having both her and Nanna as 4-5* drops would have felt redundant, and either one would have been difficult to justify as a 5* exclusive.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it, yeah.

[Dandy Druid]

11 hours ago, Hecatia Lapislazuli said:

I was referring to their class.

Silvia is exact the same class as her daughter, Cuan totally isn't as his son.

 

Also Barrier Sword would have made sense on Erin. Since she's a pegasus knight, she might have a lot of res. Just would need distant counter.

Oh that makes sense. Silvia is a tad redundant. She probably would've been better received had she come before her daughter, than have Lene powercreep her.

Barrier Sword was a Laylea exclusive. They'd give Erin a different weapon. She would either be compared to Elincia or Shigure, depending on which weapon type they give her.

10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yes, exactly! I mean, I can be glad for FE4 fans, it's just that I also feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick as a Tellius and Magvel fan. ...Actually, that'd be FE6 fans getting the shortest end, since that one has yet to have a single banner to itself. But Tellius and Magvel have repeatedly drawn the short straws too. For Tellius, in a way, it's almost as bad as FE6's situation because as you pointed out, Tellius has the largest cast, yet we only have a small handful of it in this game and FE6 also at least had units at launch. Tellius had zero then.

True. I predict that if/when Tellius gets another banner, Ilyana would probably be on it though, since she's a popular character.

9 hours ago, Othin said:

It's a plenty reasonable argument. There's a well-established association by now between rarity and certain types of outfits and designs.

I'm sure we'll get more FE6 eventually, but it's had a pretty solid lineup from launch. Only big omissions are Idunn and Rutger, I'd say.

If you're going to say we need the rest of the Greil Mercs, Dawn Brigade, and Crimean Knights, I'm going to say we need the rest of the Fiana Braves. They're basically the original Greil Mercs, after all!

I know people are calling you out on your argument, but there could be something there. Personally, I can see them keeping some units 5 stars depending on how expensive the artist they commissioned for that character was. Lene's artist has only done Bridal Caeda and Lene, so they may be more expensive. Chiko, who just did Sylvia, has been commissioned 6 times now, but it's worth noting that all of the characters they've done have been 5 stars as well.

As for FE6, Rutger was one of the most popular in Japan, so he's a definite must. I can also see Dieck, Perceval, Duessel, Lalum, Elphin, Marcus, Wolt, and Sue being added.

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

If Lewyn is the star of this banner then Silvia definitely is its weak spot. Why is she here exactly? She's like Ayra and Larcei where mother and daughter are so similar that having both them just lets one spot get wasted. We already had a perky green haired dancer girl that's in love with a runaway royal, was another one really so vital to the Heroes roster? I guess she got boobs but there were still other Geneology girls available. Edain would have gone perfectly with Jamke, Fury/Erinys could have been paired with Lewyn and Bridget could have given us a third holy weapon. But instead of those we got another dancer who's spot was already taken when her daughter joined months ago. 

Heroes is doing a good job staying close to the source material, and probably added Silvia is this banner because she comes at the same time Lewyn does in FE4. Her inclusion is probably just a reference tbh. Erinys may be the next Gen 1 banner, whenever that may be.

6 hours ago, Etheus said:

Maybe Tethys? She didn't have a weapon associated with her, but I do picture her as more of a dagger or tome wielder.

I see her as a dark magic user myself because of the hack and the fact that her brother can wield it. Maybe Tethys knows a trick or too.

6 hours ago, DraceEmpressa said:

bow dancer when

Maybe Lalum or a Heron? But knowing Heroes, they'd probably make it Takumi.

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

There is only one more dancer who MUST get added. 

A belly dancer alt for Oliver. 

Don't give ideas to IS! I'm trying to save my orbs!

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I share in your criticisms. The one decent argument I heard to Silvia is color balance. Shhe is Red, Lewyn and Quan cover Green and Blue, and Colorless is addressed in TT Ethlyn and GHB Jamke. But even so, I dislike Silvia coming so soon after Leen. And other Reds exist in FE4, albeit all Gen 1 picks for this color that remain, Beowolf, Chulainn, and possibly either or both of Alec and Naoise, are rather weak, save Azelle of course.

Silvia stole the Barrier Sword though, a weapon only Laylea can obtain. That bodes ill presently for the Subs, who aren't helped by having the same personalities as the characters they replace, and most of those characters already have threadbare personality.

It bodes well for Coirpre though, since it means he'll be stealing Charlot's Berserk Staff. He will have REVENGE! for being called absolutely useless by everyone, he'll make the "useful" among the enemy slit each other's throats.

 

I might want to agree with you. But even if I do, I think Tomes, Red or Green, wouldn't be terrible for her. Either a Fire spell she picked up from little bro Ewan, or Wind owing to being from Jehanna, which has Excalibur as one of its Sacred Twins, and presently only Saleh would want it.

Tethys has rings in her hands in her official SS art:

  Reveal hidden contents

Chakrams as Daggers anyone?

As I stated earlier in my mess of a comment, Silvia was probably added now over someone like Erinys because Silvia comes with Lewyn in FE4. It's probably more of a reference to that than the fact they're predestined lovers.

I had a feeling the subs will probably never be added, but the idea of Substitute banner sounds fun to me. Hawk, Laylea, and Linda are pretty great subs. Too bad Laylea's weapon was taken, but she could have better skills than Silvia. That, or they could make her a Red Dagger unit with a weapon called "Barrier Blades".

Also, can't wait for Beserk Coirpre.

I see Tethys as a red mage dancer, mainly because we don't have an infantry red magic dancer yet IIRC. The last infantry magic dancer were Inigo and Shigure IIRC, so it's been a while.

5 hours ago, Othin said:

Silvia's subs are generally regarded as the best, IIRC.

Subs don't look super likely anytime soon at this rate.

Nowadays it's the opposite. Lene is generally regarded as more efficient due to the skills she could inherit from her father, i.e. Paragon or Bargain, which is much more useful on a dancer than Charisma. Paragon for experience (certain LTC and Challenge Runs require an experience count for all characters, and this makes leveling both Lene and Coirpre much easier. It also takes into account character deaths, and having Silvia dead would hurt your score) and Bargain for costs and such. As for Coirpre, the staves he could inherit can be seen as more helpful than Sharlow's Berserk staff, which is generally used in very niche situations. Paragon has a lot of competition though, but Bargain doesn't.

However, Laylea and Sharlow are considered very good subs, and are considered on par or slightly worse than the originals. Being only slightly worse as a substitute in FE4 is a great feat. Not many other subs can say the same cough Amid cough.

3 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

As someone mentioned, I believe, Sylvia's kid's replacements often are considered better. Otherwise, some, like Hawk, Ced's replacement, are very good, but not better than the better child builds from what I remember.

See above. They're pretty much on par with the originals, but do face the disadvantages of being a substitute.

 

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

True. I predict that if/when Tellius gets another banner, Ilyana would probably be on it though, since she's a popular character.

I doubt it. The most wanted Tellius characters right now are all laguz save for Haar if CYL2 is anything to go by.

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I know people are calling you out on your argument, but there could be something there. Personally, I can see them keeping some units 5 stars depending on how expensive the artist they commissioned for that character was. Lene's artist has only done Bridal Caeda and Lene, so they may be more expensive. Chiko, who just did Sylvia, has been commissioned 6 times now, but it's worth noting that all of the characters they've done have been 5 stars as well.

As for FE6, Rutger was one of the most popular in Japan, so he's a definite must. I can also see Dieck, Perceval, Duessel, Lalum, Elphin, Marcus, Wolt, and Sue being added.

That's a big of a reverse of the chronology I'm proposing. My impression is, they first decided to keep Lene at 5* and drop Ares, then decided what sorts of skill sets to give them and what kind of art to commission for Lene.

8 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Nowadays it's the opposite. Lene is generally regarded as more efficient due to the skills she could inherit from her father, i.e. Paragon or Bargain, which is much more useful on a dancer than Charisma. Paragon for experience (certain LTC and Challenge Runs require an experience count for all characters, and this makes leveling both Lene and Coirpre much easier. It also takes into account character deaths, and having Silvia dead would hurt your score) and Bargain for costs and such. As for Coirpre, the staves he could inherit can be seen as more helpful than Sharlow's Berserk staff, which is generally used in very niche situations. Paragon has a lot of competition though, but Bargain doesn't.

However, Laylea and Sharlow are considered very good subs, and are considered on par or slightly worse than the originals. Being only slightly worse as a substitute in FE4 is a great feat. Not many other subs can say the same cough Amid cough.

Yeah, not better than the usual ones, just better than other subs.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

They'd give Erin a different weapon. She would either be compared to Elincia or Shigure, depending on which weapon type they give her.

Ferry was the first flying staff user in the series. They could give her a staff.

 

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

and what kind of art to commission for Lene.

Commissioning art most likely was one of the first things they did because that's the thing that takes by far the most time and is the least under their own control.

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Commissioning art most likely was one of the first things they did because that's the thing that takes by far the most time and is the least under their own control.

Makes sense. It was probably the first thing they did after deciding the characters and their outfits.

I think they have a pretty good idea of who's going to drop by the time they've settled who's on the banner and what they'll be doing, so I think that still fits my projections. Maybe not always with certainty, but often.

Like, once they decided the Sacred Memories banner would be Myrrh, L'Arachel, and Mage Eirika, I think they already knew L'Arachel would drop without working out any details beyond that.

[Ice Dragon]

Just now, Othin said:

Makes sense. It was probably the first thing they did after deciding the characters and their outfits.

Lene has always worn that, though.

For standard versions of characters, they probably just point the artist to the existing reference materials and indicate which ones they're planning to base the battle sprite off of in case there are noticeable differences. They probably leave the small details up to the artist to design.

I mean, it's pretty clear already that they determine who to drop before determining the characters' skills to make sure they have someone they can afford to drop and to make sure the 5-star exclusives have something worth pulling for.

[Azuni]

43 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

I see Tethys as a red mage dancer, mainly because we don't have an infantry red magic dancer yet IIRC. The last infantry magic dancer were Inigo and Shigure IIRC, so it's been a while.

There's the Summer's Dawn Micaiah on banner right now (infantry red mage dancer), but it would still be cool to see that type of weapon+dancer combination on a non-alt.

[AndrewMcC00l]

0/10 couldn't get the song right

I really like the banner as a whole, but Jugdral is my favorite continent so of course I would. I do feel a bit for the fans of other games, as now Genealogy has gone from no representation to having almost all the big players (The only ones I can think of are Brigid, Lex, and Claude from Gen 1, Shannan, Larcei, Ced, Faval, Altena, and Arion from Gen 2, and Travant and Manfroy) Tellius, Elibe, and Valentia could all use some more reps.

I'm expecting Lewyn to just be Green Ishtar statwise. Forseti looks great but I wish it completely blacked (or greened?) out the background like it used to. He still looks great, and his new skill looks interesting. The clear big boy of the banner.

I never used Quan too much. He's nice but he didn't have the utility Ethlyn had or the availability of Finn. His base stats plus the few level ups he would get along the way would be enough for him, while others like Azelle and Finn really needed the EXP. Doesn't help that the Gae Bolg is a pretty underwhelming legendary. But I'm glad he's here to reunite the Chalphy Bro Alliance. His weapon is interesting and I like that it excludes fliers. I don't like Dual Rally+. Part of me thinks he's demoting.

I don't really care about Silvia. My only five star dancer is Ninian, and the only other one I use is an Olivia I didn't bother to promote. I don't use them too often. I'm wondering if Dance Buffs are enough to go down to the 4* pool, or if she's staying 5* like her daughter. Although I'm pretty sure the reason Lene's where she is is just because of her art and Valor.

It's hard to really mess up a healer, especially a troubadour, but I trust IS will find a way. I think I'm being very generous by staying there are five decent TT units, and even then only one is really great (BK), while two are good (Masked Marth and Arden) and two are just okay (Finn and Marth). Also I'm pretty sure most people have Brave Vero, who Ethlyn is guaranteed to be worse than.

I'm predicting a Travant GHB coming up. Jamke feels very odd as a GHB unit. He has nothing to do with any of the banner characters besides sharing a generation, and by Doors of Destiny his plot relevancy is deader than Byron. Maybe CYL proves me wrong but I remember Travant being a very popular villain, and with the banner name, Cuan, and a new schedule coming soon, I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't be the first time we got two GHBs for one banner. ALSO: There's a TT coming up, and what better final map for a Doors of Destiny themed trial starring Quan and Ethlyn than the Yied Massacre?

Edited September 6, 2018 by AndrewMcC00l

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, AndrewMcC00l said:

There's a TT coming up, and what better final map for a Doors of Destiny themed trial starring Quan and Ethlyn than the Yied Massacre?

Thinking the same thing...

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The final map will be the southeast corner of the Yied Desert. Cuan is the boss. Ethlin and the Lance Ritter alongside him stuck in a sea of trenches.

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

Arden is one of Ayra's official lovers. He got game.

Fair enough, although he can also get it with Erinys. Denied a prince and big strong man, she'll have to settle with Naoise.

 

4 hours ago, Lewyn said:

This.  They are introduced at the same time and are strongly connected.  They usually like to tie characters together in new hero banners.  Quan is tied to TT reward Ethlyn, so that nicely rounds out all 4 units.  Speaking of Sylvia I wonder if we'll get lines from FE4 like "I like it rough" and "You ever see a little girl with THESE before!?" (referencing her breasts) or if those are inappropriate.

Fair point on the first part.

As for the dialogue Japan, Tharja says a common otaku-appeasing line that goes "Kitchen, bath, or... (sex)?". At least I see Japan getting those lines, and albeit this time I expect them to be translated more tastefully if they come into English. They would be obviously suggestive, since that is the spirit of them I assume, but not as localized by some horny teenagers, who tend to make awfully crass translations, inserting cusses where none exist in the Japanese for instance.

 

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Lene has always worn that, though.

The TCG artwork looks so bad with its flagrant happy lusty vibrancy.

Although Silvia's TCG artwork was even worse.

Spoiler

 

[Poimagic]

Ethlyn’s stats and the refines are out

Spoiler

And as the refines, Odin is a legendary might Blade tome with atk/Spd Link, Cherche has a 11 mt Brave axe with panic ploy, and Celica has changed the most.

Celica has now lost the hp requirement for her weapon. Her atk/Spd buff is still 5, but she takes 5 damage after combat now. Her weapon has Brazen atk/Spd as the refine

Edit: Here’s a pic of the new units and there stats

Spoiler

 

Lewyn is not the fast boi we thought he would be

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Poimagic

[Book Bro]

They all look so great.

[bottlegnomes]

 

1 hour ago, Poimagic said:

Lewyn is not the fast boi we thought he would be

What?! He's tied for the second fastest mage in the game and 13th overall. Throw on his weapon bonus and he hops up to tied for 10th overall, and tied for fastest mage, accounting for others taking a speed refine of their weapon type. With a boon, speed seal, and L&D—because why not? (not like he's getting attacked)—he's hitting 51. Unfortunately, he doesn't appear to have a super boon  

Also, that Ethlyn art is gorgeous. I'm so excited  Curious to see her kit, but she looks to have pretty solid stats for being a freebie cav healer. She's basically Nanna with reversed defensive stats, which isn't an awful place to be. Only the 3 5*s really outclass her.

Quan and Sylvia are about what I thought they'd be, which is decent but nothing too standout.

Odin is cool, but nothing too major. A self-buffing blade mage. I suppose he can run both links and super buff himself, but overall doesn't seem like it'll really change his role. Cherche's sounds really solid, though a bit disappointed I wasted those feathers to get Barst to 5* for her, but eh. And lastly, if I read that right, Celica's sounds bonkers. That's +12 attack and speed below 80% HP. Desperation on her will be stupid. I'm so hyped for that.

EDIT: Wait, I just realized Celica's is stackable, so that's +19 attack and speed if she runs dual brazen D:

Edited September 6, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Garlyle]

Well, time for the review.

Quan, the physical bulk he gets is no joke. 44 hp and up to 40 def with his base kit, he's a tank. With his weapon he also gets a nice attack power, but that comes with a suffering in speed (33 with bonuses) and Resistance(16). The speed really bad in my eyes, he should've sacrifised some bulk to boost that.

Silvia won't be taken down by mages easily, she might survive the Rein too. Her attack is nothing good, base defense is bad, however Deluge Dance can be handy. I see potentials of her in Assaults.

Lewyn is full on offense. If he goes below 50% health, he's probably dead already. With buffs calculated in, he has 58/44 offense. A Spd+ IV version is going to be dangerous, especially with all the Specials he'll be popping. Silvia is actually a good support for him. He's clearly winning this banner.

Lewyn > Silvia > Quan, but I still want Quan anyway.

Ethlyn is not bad, kind of reminds me of Clarine, except Clarine has better Res and Ethlyn has much better Def - she'll have the best Def from the Cavalry healers. Good for her that she's a reward that comes in 5* too. I thought the competition might be tough on her, but I see her spot in here.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Garlyle

[bottlegnomes]

6 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Quan, the physical bulk he gets is no joke. 44 hp and up to 40 def with his base kit, he's a tank. With his weapon he also gets a nice attack power, but that comes with a suffering in speed (33 with bonuses) and Resistance(16). The speed really bad in my eyes, he should've sacrifised some bulk to boost that.

The speed might be a boon. Res is a lost cause, so no sense trying to even salvage it, but speed might not be a bad dump stat. If you take +def/-spd, drop his default A for fierce stance, and give him the close defense seal, he can hit 44/62/26/49/22 when a melee enemy initiates. He probably doesn't really need the special proc with that attack, but with QR he can fire off a mean bonfire if he gets doubled.

 

7 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Silvia won't be taken down by mages easily, she might survive the Rein too. Her attack is nothing good, base defense is bad, however Deluge Dance can be handy. I see potentials of her in Assaults.

If I did the math right, assuming +atk Rein and +res Silvia, she'll still die. Rein has effectively 60 attack against her 44 res, for 16 on first hit, then 29 on second hit for exactly the 45 HP she'd have with the refine. It's definitely workable to make her survive, but I wouldn't rely on it.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Jeez, Lewyn looks like such an offensive nuke it isn't even funny! Green Reinhardt but without a horse!

[Garlyle]

4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

The speed might be a boon. Res is a lost cause, so no sense trying to even salvage it, but speed might not be a bad dump stat. If you take +def/-spd, drop his default A for fierce stance, and give him the close defense seal, he can hit 44/62/26/49/22 when a melee enemy initiates. He probably doesn't really need the special proc with that attack, but with QR he can fire off a mean bonfire if he gets doubled.

You are right, he is built to use Quick Riposte. I'll make a note of that.

4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

If I did the math right, assuming +atk Rein and +res Silvia, she'll still die. Rein has effectively 60 attack against her 44 res, for 16 on first hit, then 29 on second hit for exactly the 45 HP she'd have with the refine. It's definitely workable to make her survive, but I wouldn't rely on it.

Really? I didn't do the whole math, I was just assuming. Last time I underestimate the Rein I guess.

[ILikeKirbys]

24 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Quan, the physical bulk he gets is no joke. 44 hp and up to 40 def with his base kit, he's a tank. With his weapon he also gets a nice attack power, but that comes with a suffering in speed (33 with bonuses) and Resistance(16). The speed really bad in my eyes, he should've sacrifised some bulk to boost that.

Nah, Quan knows exactly what he wants to do, and that's be a defensive wall that hits like having a wall fall on you. If I end up with him (long shot, I'll be avoiding Blues this run), I kinda want him to be -SPD and throw Quick Riposte and Bonfire on him so he can Bonfire people on the second hit (Ethlyn can heal him back into QR range).

24 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Silvia won't be taken down by mages easily, she might survive the Rein too. Her attack is nothing good, base defense is bad, however Deluge Dance can be handy. I see potentials of her in Assaults.

This might actually be doable. According to my calculations (which assume no merges and aren't necessarily good), a +ATK/-SPD Reinhardt (with Death Blow 4 and Hone Cavalry) vs a +RES/-DEF Silvia (with RES-Refine Barrier Blade+, Distant Counter, Guard (to prevent Reinhardt from Specialing her to death) and HP RES 2 Seal) does [58 * 1.2 = 69.6 -> 70 ATK - 46 RES =] 24 damage per hit, which Silvia would barely survive with [49 HP - 24 = 25 HP - 24 =] 1 HP, and then she'd hit Reinhardt twice for [41 * 0.8 = 32.8 -> 31 ATK - 27 DEF =] 4 damage ([46 * 0.5 = 23 additional damage + 4 damage = ] 27 damage if she procs Iceberg), so she'd definitely survive, but she'd have to wait until her turn to kill the Reinhardt.

You're making me want her even more, here.

24 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Lewyn is full on offense. If he goes below 50% health, he's probably dead already. With buffs calculated in, he has 58/44 offense. A Spd+ IV version is going to be dangerous, especially with all the Specials he'll be popping. Silvia is actually a good support for him. He's clearly winning this banner.

If I end up with +SPD Lewyn, I think I'd drop Special Spiral in favor of running him with regular Desperation and Flashing Blade Seal, to take advantage of his super SPD and ability to always be desperate and drop Glimmer every time he attacks.

For me, it's Silvia => Lewyn > Quan. Silvia looks like someone I really want, Lewyn just looks amazing, and Quan is also good but not someone who interests me.

Edited September 6, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[MonkeyCheez3K]

@Ice Dragon I am actually super curious how much your barracks will be relieved by the new manual changes. I just turned all the spare GHB/TT units into manuals and was fascinated by the formerly wasted space, made me think about how this affects people who had the maxed out barracks but still sometimes struggled to manage the space.

EDIT: Shoot, posted in the wrong thread, my apologies, has nothing to do with the banner, I had several tabs open and did the goof.

Edited September 6, 2018 by MonkeyCheez3K

[Landmaster]

They all have such good art

[bottlegnomes]

@Garlyle Ah shoot, forgot she comes with mirror stance. In that case she would survive provided Rein doesn't have cav buffs (not factored in what I posted before either). I was assuming memehardt vs default Silvia.

Though, as @ILikeKirbys said it's doable, and guard is a good idea since that neutralizes moonbow which is really what does her in. Though, just as a note, IIRC, FEH rounds everything down in all its calcs, including the defensive stat amount subtracted by specials, e.g. Moonbow is (def - floor(def * 0.3)) as opposed to def * 0.7. But yeah, Rein is still quite impressive even with everything that's been done to mitigate him.

Edited September 6, 2018 by bottlegnomes