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Surtr is my favorite Heroes OC, fight me


Jotari
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On 9/20/2018 at 8:15 AM, Tenzen12 said:

Don't forget it wasn't duel, but straight down ganging up on him that allowed us win.

Except you don't have to gang up on him - I only fought Surtr with my one Roy, my other three Units just kept the reinforcements from overwhelming Roy. Even on Lunatic, without Muspellflame he's kind of a letdown.

5 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

The main issue I had with Fjorm was that her character was entirely defined by what happens to her rather than who she is. Despite being the mascot of Book II, we hear so little about her own personality. Most of her lines are devoted to exposition or reacting to Surtr's (see, we're on topic) latest dickery. At one point Anna actually has to report that Fjorm acts differently when speaking about Surtr, like we couldn't understand the most basic part of her character unless the game pointed it out. It goes to show how little we really saw of her.

Giving Fjorm more character depth would make me more invested in seeing Surtr fall. What will Fjorm do after the war? Is her obsession with revenge leading her to forget who she is? What was life like back in Nifl? What was the relationship between Nifl and Muspell before Surtr showed up? Ultimately nothing matters and she'll die soon.

And here's where I think Book 3 might save her - without Surtr(yep, 100% on-topic) around to define everything Fjorm is, we might actually get a chance to get attached to her by the time she bites it, so she may end up being the best OC in the whole thing depending on how they handle Book 3.

Also, can I just interject with the thought that I find it hilarious that they didn't even bother with an accompanying Paralogue to go with the Muspell Banner? No explanation as to how the Order of Heroes randomly acquired the currently-deceased Laegjarn and Helbindi, or the currently-learning-to-be-queen Laevatainn, they just basically said 'welp, that awful Book's over, here, have a reminder that it happened so you'll never be able to pretend it didn't because Helbindi's sitting in your Barracks even though he died lol'

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15 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

"Surtr is my favorite Heroes OC, fight me"

Don't worry, I will not fight you. I respect your opinion. 

Hold on!

If @Jotari likes Surtr as a person and wants to marry him or something, then FIGHT we must! If he likes Surtr as a villain because of how much he hates that burning piece of douchebag, then we shall be comrades and share our joy of beating up that arrogant douchebag.

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3 hours ago, XRay said:

Hold on!

If @Jotari likes Surtr as a person and wants to marry him or something, then FIGHT we must! If he likes Surtr as a villain because of how much he hates that burning piece of douchebag, then we shall be comrades and share our joy of beating up that arrogant douchebag.

You speak as if the two things are mutually exclusive.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

You speak as if the two things are mutually exclusive.

They are! It seems like you like and hate Surtr at the same time, I guess we will have to play footsie instead of having a full fight.

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11 hours ago, XRay said:

They are! It seems like you like and hate Surtr at the same time, I guess we will have to play footsie instead of having a full fight.

If I understood him right... He loves how boring and generic Surt is...

For me, the only thing I like about Surtr is his design.

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16 hours ago, XRay said:

They are! It seems like you like and hate Surtr at the same time, I guess we will have to play footsie instead of having a full fight.

 

5 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

If I understood him right... He loves how boring and generic Surt is...

For me, the only thing I like about Surtr is his design.

Lot of words being put in my mouth here. My feelings for Surtr can best be summed up as "Better than any other character conceived for Heroes thus far."

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Lot of words being put in my mouth here. My feelings for Surtr can best be summed up as "Better than any other character conceived for Heroes thus far."

Better as in you want to be besties with them, or better as in better written? If it is the former, I am going to escalate our footsie.

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5 minutes ago, XRay said:

Better as in you want to be besties with them, or better as in better written? If it is the former, I am going to escalate our footsie.

I'd go with more entertaining. So neither....or both?

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

I'd go with more entertaining. So neither....or both?

If it is both, we will fight. Being besties with Surtr is a line that even Super Bun Bun Pal would not cross.

En garde, evil villain! You will experience why magic is everything.

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25 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Lot of words being put in my mouth here. My feelings for Surtr can best be summed up as "Better than any other character conceived for Heroes thus far."

Hm... I don't know... Alfonse is a "interesting" character... Initially he doesn't want to become friends with any hero, because he experience the lost of a friend (Zacharias), so if he doesn't consider another person a friend, we will not suffer when the lose this person. He also is a smart boy, helping to evacuate a town before Surtr arrives.

"I advise you not to get close to the Heroes. It will just make it harder... should you ever be parted." - Alfonse. Castle quote.

"I have to confess that I never intended to become friends with you, Summoner. But you're always there when I need you, to the extent that when you're not near, I feel...not quite myself.
It's a delicate position to be in. The more you have to lose, the worse it hurts when you do. Others may open themselves to such hurt, but as a prince, I must remain strong.
" - Alfonse. 5* LV 40 Conversation

Veronica had so development too. She started like Surtr, with "I want to kill you" words, but her relationship with Xander and her brother show us a different Veronica. Also, her supports in the Forging Bonds event is very interesting.

"Askr must die. The people, however... Once this land is conquered, they will become Embla's. A ruler's duty is to the people, is it not?" - Veronica. Book II, Chapter 4-5

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I really thought we were going to get much more with Surtr and the ritual of the flame so I was very disappointed in how it all played out.  Early in book 2 when Laevetein says she will activate flame (FLAME ON!) Laegjarn says that she will lose herself.  So I assumed Surtr activated his flame, and he lost who he really was originally.  He might have been a benevolent ruler who loved his wife (where is she?) more than anything.  However that wife fell ill from some rare disease, the herbs needed to cure it were in Niflheim and so he begged the ice queen for some of it even offering to trade any Muspell resource.  She coldly declined cause she always looked down on the dark skinned Muspell people.  His wife died....after a prolonged period of suffering with Surtr watching bedside and helpless to do anything.  

He decided to activate the flame and conquer all other lands so anything he wants he could have, the time for negotion was over.  The time for blood had begun.  He especially enjoyed torturing/killing the ice queen.  As he lost himself to the flames his love for his kids, people, even his deceased wife were all lost.  Laegjarn saw this which is why she was so horrified about Laevetein casually suggesting to flame on.  

Book 2 started out so promising, and then...I mean this isn't exactly game of thrones super complex plot and countless characters/storylines, really inexcusable how poor they developed and finished.

 

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4 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I really thought we were going to get much more with Surtr and the ritual of the flame so I was very disappointed in how it all played out.  Early in book 2 when Laevetein says she will activate flame (FLAME ON!) Laegjarn says that she will lose herself.  So I assumed Surtr activated his flame, and he lost who he really was originally.  He might have been a benevolent ruler who loved his wife (where is she?) more than anything.  However that wife fell ill from some rare disease, the herbs needed to cure it were in Niflheim and so he begged the ice queen for some of it even offering to trade any Muspell resource.  She coldly declined cause she always looked down on the dark skinned Muspell people.  His wife died....after a prolonged period of suffering with Surtr watching bedside and helpless to do anything.  

He decided to activate the flame and conquer all other lands so anything he wants he could have, the time for negotion was over.  The time for blood had begun.  He especially enjoyed torturing/killing the ice queen.  As he lost himself to the flames his love for his kids, people, even his deceased wife were all lost.  Laegjarn saw this which is why she was so horrified about Laevetein casually suggesting to flame on.  

Book 2 started out so promising, and then...I mean this isn't exactly game of thrones super complex plot and countless characters/storylines, really inexcusable how poor they developed and finished.

 

I like your version of the story, although it would make Nifl the villain of the story.

I am sure Laevetein's and Laegjarn's mother is a random woman who probably died because Surtr had a bad day or something... It's like Garon and his children, each one from a different woman...

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56 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I like your version of the story, although it would make Nifl the villain of the story.

I am sure Laevetein's and Laegjarn's mother is a random woman who probably died because Surtr had a bad day or something... It's like Garon and his children, each one from a different woman...

That is part of the frustration.  We never find out anything about Nifl queen except Surtr killed her.  We never find out about Surtr's wife, Laevetein/Laegjarn's mom.  We never find out why Laevetein never smiles and is like a mind broken doll.  Did she witness Surtr burning her mom to death as a young child?  There are a lot of tried and true even cliche little things they could have added and yet we got so little.  

Another thing that was frustrating was how Laegjarn flames on and she is basically the same.  Like what's the point?  You die after a single battle (I guess a few hours or something) and there wasn't any notable power increase, new abilities, anything.  Early on it seemed like it was some last resort thing that at the expense of your sense of self, humanity, you could acquire tremendous power giving yourself to the flame.  Again poorly developed.

Fjorm power of ice isn't much better.  She gets a month or whatever for some reason as opposed to a few hours.  She also didn't have any power increase, though I guess we are to assume (even though you aren't required to field Fjorm) that she was essential to kill Surtr.  This great ritual of ice was done poorly as well.  

I really feel bad for the art/music team.  They did an amazing job with these characters, which is the biggest reason for their popularity, yet the writers failed so bad.  The only good parts which weren't nearly developed enough BTW were Laegjarn/Laevetein relationship, and Helbindi coming from the slums fighting for his sister.  

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36 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Fjorm power of ice isn't much better.  She gets a month or whatever for some reason as opposed to a few hours.  She also didn't have any power increase, though I guess we are to assume (even though you aren't required to field Fjorm) that she was essential to kill Surtr.  This great ritual of ice was done poorly as well.  

The purpose of the Ritual of Ice was not to increase your power, but to nullify Surtr's Muspellflame, and it does exactly that.

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44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The purpose of the Ritual of Ice was not to increase your power, but to nullify Surtr's Muspellflame, and it does exactly that.

A right must have missed that in all the bad story writing.  So ritual of ice to nullify muspellflame and save the sacrifices so he can't revive.  Still really lame.  Hope book 3 is much much better, but for that they would likely need a whole new writing team.  

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19 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I really thought we were going to get much more with Surtr and the ritual of the flame so I was very disappointed in how it all played out.  Early in book 2 when Laevetein says she will activate flame (FLAME ON!) Laegjarn says that she will lose herself.  So I assumed Surtr activated his flame, and he lost who he really was originally. 

17 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Another thing that was frustrating was how Laegjarn flames on and she is basically the same.  Like what's the point?  You die after a single battle (I guess a few hours or something) and there wasn't any notable power increase, new abilities, anything.  Early on it seemed like it was some last resort thing that at the expense of your sense of self, humanity, you could acquire tremendous power giving yourself to the flame.  Again poorly developed.

This is one of the few things I was kind of looking forward to being resolved, what at the time seemed like foreshadowing. The way Laegjarn originally described the Rite of Flame, she made it sound like something that would make you super powered at the expense of turning you into a heartless monster, like their father. But it turns out it was an extremely short lived power-up that kills you soon after (and has no effect on gameplay). What? Why would anyone willingly use that other than the very specific situation in which you want to do a suicide attack? Why did Surtr get the super powers but other people just get a death sentence? The last chapter feels incredibly rushed and poorly conceived. 

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1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

This is one of the few things I was kind of looking forward to being resolved, what at the time seemed like foreshadowing. The way Laegjarn originally described the Rite of Flame, she made it sound like something that would make you super powered at the expense of turning you into a heartless monster, like their father. But it turns out it was an extremely short lived power-up that kills you soon after (and has no effect on gameplay). What? Why would anyone willingly use that other than the very specific situation in which you want to do a suicide attack? Why did Surtr get the super powers but other people just get a death sentence? The last chapter feels incredibly rushed and poorly conceived. 

Well it could make for a useful deterrent, depending on how powerful it is (which seems to be not very considering the heroes still beat her with little trouble). Consider a medieval world where everyone is fighting with swords and axes, but family is equipped with suicide vests. Sure, it won't actually help them win the battle because they'll be dead, but it will sure as hell be a guarantee that you'll lose. So you'd have to be a hell of a lot more careful when it comes to fighting them and backing them into a corner. Of course, that's how such a power should have been used in a well written story.

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On 25. 9. 2018 at 5:03 PM, NekoKnight said:

This is one of the few things I was kind of looking forward to being resolved, what at the time seemed like foreshadowing. The way Laegjarn originally described the Rite of Flame, she made it sound like something that would make you super powered at the expense of turning you into a heartless monster, like their father. But it turns out it was an extremely short lived power-up that kills you soon after (and has no effect on gameplay). What? Why would anyone willingly use that other than the very specific situation in which you want to do a suicide attack? Why did Surtr get the super powers but other people just get a death sentence? The last chapter feels incredibly rushed and poorly conceived. 

I don't think these are matters that needed to be resolved. There are hints and it's pretty obvious Loki had some agenda in Nifl. Once we learn more about her plans we might get also more insight into events that already occured. 

Sutr job is being hated and defeated at the moment. Once we see greater picture his role in it also might change.  It wouldn't be first time it happened in FE. 

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On 9/25/2018 at 9:03 AM, NekoKnight said:

This is one of the few things I was kind of looking forward to being resolved, what at the time seemed like foreshadowing. The way Laegjarn originally described the Rite of Flame, she made it sound like something that would make you super powered at the expense of turning you into a heartless monster, like their father. But it turns out it was an extremely short lived power-up that kills you soon after (and has no effect on gameplay). What? Why would anyone willingly use that other than the very specific situation in which you want to do a suicide attack? Why did Surtr get the super powers but other people just get a death sentence? The last chapter feels incredibly rushed and poorly conceived. 

Keep in mind Surtr's been Flame Ganon for much longer than Laegjarn was - we killed her right off the bat, while Surtr's had...like nine months at bare minimum by the time he first attacked Askr, if I'm remembering the script correctly(Nifl lasted six months, the kingdom before only three). It's entirely possible that the Rite of Flames requires some time after activation to build you up to Muspellflame level, hence the massive difference in what it did to Surtr vs what it did to Laegjarn - I'd wager Surtr's been on fire for at least a full year, and had Laegjarn lasted that long she might well have been on the same level of power/invincibility.

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