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New Heroes Appear: Nohrian Dusk (September 14th ~)


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44 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

As Ice Dragon said, those seem to run counter to what they want daggers to be. Firesweep is a possibility, but daggers seem more about weakening your enemy to death rather than buffing yourself up to ORKO them. My guess is they'll keep stacking effects until the daggers are good and only if they've exhausted every other reasonable possibility will they add those.

Firesweep does not have the raw power of Brave and Blades, but it lets daggers apply their debuff safely. It is no different from using AOTB!Veronica as a nuke.

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Firesweep is strictly worse than Dazzling Staff and would really just be another disservice to the weapon type when compared to staves. You have no ability to counterattack on enemy phase, you have no ability to choose what kind of debuff you want to inflict, and you have no access to the additional effects of other dagger weapons (granted, Dazzling Staff on an effective-damage weapon sounds slightly worrisome).

It would be better to have dagger-specific A or B skills that do something similar.

Firesweep Dagger units have access to Dance/Sing-Reposition tactic that staff units do not. Outside of AOTB!Veronica, staff units cannot debuff enemies' Def/Res, which is much safer effect to apply than dealing damage with Pain.

Not being able to counterattack is not a big deal when most staff users do not want to be initiated on anyways.

Daggers right now are being outdone combat wise and debuffing wise by Firesweep healers. Firesweep Dagger at least puts them on better footing with access to Reposition. It allows offensive units like HATF!Kagero to be a better nuke and weaker Atk units like Matthew and Saizo debuff any enemy safely.

 

Edited by XRay
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6 hours ago, mcsilas said:

True, I was just wondering what Silas's niche could be since we do have a fair bit of lance cavalry in the pool. It just occured to me how the highest Def 4 star cav is Oscar at 26 Def. Unless Quan somehow demotes.

Quan at this point at this point has essentially be disconfirmed for demoting after seeing Silas, as it’d be pretty weird to have two of the same unit drop in a row (there’s a magnitude of other reasons but that’s another story). That doesn’t exclude the possibility of nobody demoting, but I’ll give IS the benefit of the doubt.

Silas will likely be more defensive yet slightly slowly than your average cavalier. I predict his defense and speed will be in the low 30s, and he’ll have good attack and HP with poor resistance. The majority of common lance cavalry units usually have average defense at best, so Silas in that regard is kinda unique.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Firesweep Dagger units have access to Dance/Sing-Reposition tactic that staff units do not. Outside of AOTB!Veronica, staff units cannot debuff enemies' Def/Res, which is much safer effect to apply than dealing damage with Pain.

All staves have access to Fear+, which is a safer effect to apply than the standard dagger debuff. (Also Gravity+.)

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Not being able to counterattack is not a big deal when most staff users do not want to be initiated on anyways.

Not being able to counterattack is a bigger deal for daggers, many of whom can afford to take an attack on enemy phase after attacking with refined Smoke Dagger+, but cannot always initiate the first attack safely.

 

What Hoarfrost Knife does is make Barb Shuriken viable, though it's restricted to only one character. What would make daggers viable as a whole is the ability to make the generic daggers viable (in particular, Barb Shuriken and Smoke Dagger), not just Silver Dagger, which is what Firesweep Dagger really is, a "viable Silver Dagger".

Edited by Ice Dragon
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2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I see. Thanks for the tip! And that's too bad. May have been cool to give her dagger to one of the dancers or something.

No problem! Oh right, another thing to check is the might. If it's melee, generally 14 might is inheritable and 16 is non; for ranged, IIRC it's 12 for inheritable and 14 for non. If it's brave though, I think it's 11 and 9, though IIRC there's only one brave ranged prf weapon in the game, so not too much to go off of.

And yeah, it would've been pretty fun to be able to have dancing Xander run that, bonfire, and special spiral. 27 damage bonfires would've been hilarious.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Firesweep does not have the raw power of Brave and Blades, but it lets daggers apply their debuff safely. It is no different from using AOTB!Veronica as a nuke.

I'm genuinely not sure what in my post that was responding to. I don't mean to sound dismissive. Veronica doing something doesn't mean it's in line with what IS wants daggers to play like. Also, I said Firesweep was the most likely because it's not completely opposed to what daggers seem to be, whereas blade and braves are.

 

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

That doesn’t exclude the possibility of nobody demoting, but I’ll give IS the benefit of the doubt.

I'm pretty cynical about IS at this point too, but for as much as this comes up I'm really not sure why. The only banners that have had nondrop general pool units are the CYLs, Farfetched, and Fallen Heroes, which were all rather thematically distinct from the conventional new hero banners.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

All staves have access to Fear+, which is a safer effect to apply than the standard dagger debuff. (Also Gravity+.)

Fear does not help Player Phase teams that much since they are generally not going to get hit in the first place.

44 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Not being able to counterattack is a bigger deal for daggers, many of whom can afford to take an attack on enemy phase after attacking with refined Smoke Dagger+, but cannot always initiate the first attack safely.

Many dagger units also have offensive stat lines like HATF!Kagero and Sothe who cannot fill that role as well. There is no reason to play them because they cannot compete in any meaningful role.

If they cannot have the raw power of Brave nukes, they should at least have the coverage of Firesweep nukes. Barb Shuriken and Lethal Carrot are crap offensive Weapons as they do not have the raw power or coverage.

Edited by XRay
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14 hours ago, sirmola said:

Also, why do they make demotes so obvious? it just results in everyone who WOULD have pulled for silias sitting on their orbs.

It's better than the alternative. Back when it was less clear, I remember being reluctant to pull from New Heroes banners because why pull for a character who might drop to 4* when I could save my orbs for characters I know are 5* exclusive?

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3 minutes ago, Yukiko said:

Speaking of the story, I noticed Nina said she was summoned by a mysterious man... Could he be Bruno?

My assumption was Surtr.

Bruno shouldn't be trying to throw contracted Heroes at you anymore.

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3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

My assumption was Surtr.

Bruno shouldn't be trying to throw contracted Heroes at you anymore.

At first I thought about Surtr too, but then I remembered that "mysterious man" was the term used by the heroes to refer to him...

Maybe he summoned them to save Veronica but something went wrong? I know it's unlikely, but the plot has already surprised us a couple of times...

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5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

B-b-but @Ice Dragon"s entire logic for Colored Bows was color would be assigned according to the elemental association of the weapon!

But wait! Nina and her Shining Bow, despite sounding like it should be associated with Light, and thus Blue, is Colorless, correct?

Maybe Colored Daggers and Bows shall be assigned on a semi-arbitrary basis. Not always, but sometimes.

Probably semi-arbitrary, I literally linked Bowcina and L!Lyn to their hair colors, ahsdfsjf

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The update appeared in the app store for me a bit ago. I haven't seen anything so far, but any word on the datamine? A lot of y'all seem to be more in the loop on those things.

Also, why are people not freaking out more about Missletainn? It's a killer tome with half of Wrath built in, but able to be boosted more. Special Spiral lets her have every-turn 4-cooldown specials.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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17 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

The update appeared in the app store for me a bit ago. I haven't seen anything so far, but any word on the datamine? A lot of y'all seem to be more in the loop on those things.

If that update was for version 2.9.1, then it was only for a couple of bug fixes. It didn't add any character data at least as there aren't any ?s in my Catalog of Heroes after updating to 2.9.1.

Edited by Tybrosion
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2 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

If that update was for version 2.9.1, then it was only for a couple of bug fixes. It didn't any character data at least as there aren't any ?s in my Catalog of Heroes after updating to 2.9.1.

Oh, you're right. I just missed it earlier I guess. Alas...

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14 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Also, why are people not freaking out more about Missletainn? It's a killer tome with half of Wrath built in, but able to be boosted more. Special Spiral lets her have every-turn 4-cooldown specials.

No, it's a Killer weapon with Quickened Pulse ×? built in where "?" is the number of tome users on your team. Its automatic Special charging only occurs on turn 1.

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3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Ohhh, I'm blind. Well, that explains that.

The main thing is that it solves the problem of getting Special Spiral set up.

If she's a typical fast mage, she can activate a 4-charge Special every round (it starts at 2 cooldown with no allies and activates on her second hit if the opponent can counterattack).

With 2 tome allies or 1 tome ally and Quickened Pulse (or a similar combination with Infantry Pulse), she can start with Blazing Flame/Thunder/Wind/Light charged right off the bat and have it charged on every round of combat (though you might want Hardy Bearing on her Sacred Seal slot).

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

The main thing is that it solves the problem of getting Special Spiral set up.

If she's a typical fast mage, she can activate a 4-charge Special every round (it starts at 2 cooldown with no allies and activates on her second hit if the opponent can counterattack).

With 2 tome allies or 1 tome ally and Quickened Pulse (or a similar combination with Infantry Pulse), she can start with Blazing Flame/Thunder/Wind/Light charged right off the bat and have it charged on every round of combat (though you might want Hardy Bearing on her Sacred Seal slot).

Oh, I mean it's still quite good, but there is a bit of a difference between every-turn, no-counter 3 charge specials and 4 charge specials if she has the stats to actually appreciably gain from one of them. Hence Bonfire Ares vs. Special Spiral Slaying Edge Zelgius since Black Luna is basically a 4 charge special. I mostly just meant that explains why people weren't freaking out about it as much as I was. Setting up Special Spiral reliably is certainly a very valuable thing though, since that is Ares's biggest issue.

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The solo skill is getting a lot of flak, and it deserves it.  When Atk/Spd solo comes out, there will be no reason for swift sparrow or LnD3.  We just had single skills catching up finally with DB4, and now they do this.  I hope we never get Atk/Spd solo, but other less optimal hybrids, however it is coming I'm sure eventually and likely on a seasonal (maybe Halloween) unit.  

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7 hours ago, XRay said:

She immolated herself in Birthright to preserve her honor for betraying Corrin, her lord. The lord-retainer relationship is taken very seriously in Fates and shit gets real when that sacred bond gets broken.

Although it sounds kind of awesome when I typed that up, if you played the game or saw the gameplay, the execution of that scene was... well, it could have been much more dramatic and better. Maybe it is better in the Japanese version.

She also has the Dark Mage line as a reclass option, which could be a reason for her to be red, since Dark Magic is red in FEH.

Edited by YotsuMaboroshi
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My personal opinion is solo should run on the wolf berg check (if number of enemies within two spaces > number of allies within two spaces) and should be +5 to both stats 

Edited by Mackc2
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Interesting lineup! Ophelia and Nina are two characters I enjoy very much, and it's nice to see Nina with the Shining Bow (since I pretty much always gave it to her in my playthroughs.) I do think it's kind of strange that Shining Bow is colorless. If I remember correctly, it deals magical damage...which falls in line with the theory that colored bows are the magical ones, so I suppose it should technically be blue. Oh well...getting a colored dagger in the pool is interesting. 

I'm gonna have to pass though. My luck has been pretty terrible lately. Did some casual pulls on the newest banner for Lewyn and got a Minerva instead. She's +SPD -HP, but I've already got +SPD -RES as my merge base. So...another merge! I'm pretty sure this is a waifu trap banner anyway. Flora seems good, but I think green DC dragons and armors are the easiest units to counter so she's not super necessary.  Definitely going to wait until next week to see what pops up!

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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

The solo skill is getting a lot of flak, and it deserves it.  When Atk/Spd solo comes out, there will be no reason for swift sparrow or LnD3. 

Ally Support is stronger when you use it as a spur than as a drive, it's also a lot easier to apply buffs if you're allowed to be next to people. (And Swift Sparrow basically never had a reason to exist, anyway, between Fury 3's better bulk and L&D's better offense.)

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