LM and EM are pathetic

[Hanes]

These game modes are pathetic and super easy as I realize now, what would you do to make them harder? (There's multichoice allowed)

Edited September 15, 2018 by This boi uses Nino

[Integrity]

what's wrong with being easy, op

[Hanes]

8 minutes ago, Integrity said:

what's wrong with being easy, op

That it's so boring and dull to play them which is 2/3 of the game never played because they are so easy (LN/HM and EN/HM) atleast have these changes apply to HM

[Jotari]

34 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

That it's so boring and dull to play them which is 2/3 of the game never played because they are so easy (LN/HM and EN/HM) atleast have these changes apply to HM

Looks like the real option you want is to just play Hector Hard Mode.

[Hanes]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Looks like the real option you want is to just play Hector Hard Mode.

PLaying the same mode with the same story is a bit dull too I want to be able to come back to EM and be challenged

[Bartozio]

I think Lyn mode is fine, because it's meant to be a turtorial for new players. They could maybe make the later half of Lyn hard mode a bit tougher (most of those maps are basicly exactly the same between modes), but it's only a few chapters anyway so no need to overdo it.

Eliwood normal mode is fine for similar reasons. They could make Eliwood hard mode as difficult as the Hector version, but I actually like how the current way adds variety to difficulty. Nobody starts out being able to clear HHM easily (unless you have prior experience to strategy games) so newer players should be given the option to slowly work their way up to that level (or to just stick to enjoying the game without using their head too much).

The most important thing they should change is making all modes available from the start imo.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

This applies to each mode:

Giving luck to enemies and higher level. Seeing level 15 first tier enemies in like the second last map is just pathetic.

[redlight]

You could search for a patch that increases difficulty for EM. Or tinker with FEBuilder and modify enemy stats. Then make a patch that others can access

[Hanes]

2 hours ago, Hecatia Lapislazuli said:

This applies to each mode:

Giving luck to enemies and higher level. Seeing level 15 first tier enemies in like the second last map is just pathetic.

Yeah exactly, Luck is a good stat for enemies.

[QuoteSoda]

More enemys Like manic Mode,Just like mekkah Said "more enemys is more fun,More time and Exp" Also i would be good that is also Ever Enemy is promoted just like PoR Manic Mode

 

Also,Do you really Want Nino with more Shitty Stats?

 

MODEDIT: yo don't doublepost

[Hanes]

1 hour ago, QuoteSoda said:

Also,Do you really Want Nino with more Shitty Stats?

No it's just an interesting option to make your units weaker to be more equal to the enemy in a way

[Dunal]

My personal overall thoughts on FE difficulty:

Spoiler

 

Generally the best solution to making a game harder is to lower player growth (or generally the speed of which you grow) and then have enemies scale accordingly to that. But the former allows you to control the latter without power-creeping the game and creating further issues (with difficulty or lack thereof).

Put it this way, if a FE is 0% growths, it's incredibly easy to design maps/enemies to the exact difficulty you want with any units you happen to use. The problem is that it creates the opposite extreme where you remove one of the core aspects of FE. A middle ground is a good recipe for challenge while also still having the satisfaction of levelling/scaling to a degree.

Even HHM has a problem where your own units quickly out-scale your enemies past a certain point and you gain access to units who are more powerful than they have the right to be. You could just buff enemies a huge amount but again that creates additional issues (forces you to buff the weaker or under-levelled units so they can actually be usable and/or nerf the stronger units so you aren't absolutely forced to use them either).

I don't think higher than LV1 enemies should be in Lyn Mode unless they didn't give extra EXP, since you're not really supposed to gain too much of it before the main game begins (so you don't break it further). However enemies could certainly use higher bases that can be tweaked on a per-map basis. I would usually be against doing that, but LHM enemies are so weak (again, due to their level) where that could be justified. 

EHM (and HHM for that matter) just need much harsher EXP penalties for being over-levelled with some unit changes to consider (aside from maybe Isadora and a couple others, all prepromotes could be taken down a notch, since their existence forces enemies to be far stronger, which just creates issues for a lot of Tier 1s). If you otherwise power-creep enemies, it just means the player has to put more focus in certain units and forced to ditch others (unless the game is completely re-balanced/designed from the ground up to accommodate everyone) and with player growth, with its variation or power creep it causes will allow you to trivialize the difficulty one way or another. Even if you just have a couple of units who are RNG blessed moderately, then enemy strength probably isn't going to matter too much regardless. So lowering the possibility (or extremity) of it happening through lowering scaling as a whole can only be good for the game and its difficulty.

As for increasing quantity of enemies, that almost never creates meaningful challenge. Sure, there needs to be a sufficient amount of enemies based on the map design (for defend maps especially), but overdoing it just makes things incredibly messy and often monotonous to play. 

 

TL;DR: Simply increasing enemy stats/scaling (or quantity) doesn't really solve the issue. If I were to take a minimalistic approach to improving FE7's difficulty, it would be to lower potential EXP gains (or even growths), tone down some of the units with higher bases (relative to others), and then have enemies scale higher where it makes sense (as in, not have Tier 1 enemies show up in the last stages of the game) but not enough to the point where the weaker units are strongly impacted.

Unless you feel HHM is fine in which case, for LHM and EHM... it would just be replicating what HHM does to be more challenging? I mean, I don't necessarily agree that HHM is fine, but if you know how it differentiates itself, then you've answered your own question. Otherwise, there are definitely ways to make HHM more meaningfully difficult which could also apply to LHM and EHM.

7 hours ago, Integrity said:

what's wrong with being easy, op

I think it largely depends on whether you view FE as more of an RPG or as a strategy game. That will largely influence how much the difficulty will affect your enjoyment of the game. 

[Parrhesia]

you're a series veteran

not everyone who plays fe7 is a series veteran

fe is, as a series, difficult

having an easy path to complete the game in LNM -> ENM is a good thing

it shouldn't be forced tbf

"i want EM to be harder" - well, play EHM

"I don't want to play LM" - well, skip it

not every mode has to be aimed at you to be good.

[NobodiePichu]

honestly all lyn and eliwood mode really need are quality of life improvements since as a general experience their pretty fun, not to hard not to easy, hell its the one i usually recommend as a starting point for people. Turning off the forced tutorials and giving the lyn mode maps more to do is probably the biggest change i would make, atleast as far as i can think off at the moment.

if you just want a straight difficulty increase though, id say clever replacement and movement of the enemies should be your top priority, weapon replacement to give foes more deadly arsenals or unique arsenals to watch out for, maybe minor stat and number of enemies increase but only where its strategic and where it counts, and more clever enemy ai wherever possible and needed are the biggest points to look for. Map redesigns too might help if your looking for a straight up hard mode hack.

[Hanes]

2 hours ago, Dunal said:

I don't think higher than LV1 enemies should be in Lyn Mode unless they didn't give extra EXP, since you're not really supposed to gain too much of it before the main game begins (so you don't break it further). However enemies could certainly use higher bases that can be tweaked on a per-map basis. I would usually be against doing that, but LHM enemies are so weak (again, due to their level) where that could be justified.

I don't really agree with this statement since enemies at LV1 offer little challenge and giving more exp would actually make it so that players consider playing LM more if you play LM with only the "efficient" units like Florina, Sain and Kent then yeah they will reach level 10 but if you're playing like most people do battles ususally just give 3-10 EXP per battle/kill because of the low enemy level and changing them per map is a bigger hazzle when increasing levels is just as easy and actually gives you more chance to train more of your prefered units, and since it's made for newer players then allowing units to be stronger would be better plus even when I started playing FE7 Lyn mode never gave a challenge to me with the exception of vortex of strategy, which is the first you-must-actually-somewhat-plan-this-chapter chapter but other than that even Lundgren falls very easily and never feels like a treat even for me when I was a newcomer.

Quote

As for increasing quantity of enemies, that almost never creates meaningful challenge. Sure, there needs to be a sufficient amount of enemies based on the map design (for defend maps especially), but overdoing it just makes things incredibly messy and often monotonous to play.

I disagree with this fact, it is true that having more than 50 enemies in a map is bad like in PoR's maniac mode chapter 26, that map is absolute hell but increasing the quantity of enemies can make a map not just harder but strategically different.

Let's take the example of EHM's first chapter where there are 2 additional bandits in the north, this doesn't seem to make much of a difference but it does because in normal mode you would simply go up then west and then down with no consideration for the upper part of the map but in hard mode the inclusion of those 2 bandits and no healer actually makes some of your units have a higher chance of death, except Marcus, now let's see how you would approach this map, you go up then west and encounter the 2 bandits and spread out rather than immediately outnumber the 2 bandits that in normal mode approached from the south rather here you have moved differently because of map design making you adapt to it.

Or how about chapter 26x where there are a few more enemies which are 1 hero, 1 general and 2 wyvern knights but these seemingly insignificant changes actually makes you slow down in a way for you to not easily rush past the enemies since the heroes are very fast and the generals very tanky they will get in your way, it will give a somewhat similarity to FE6 where you need several units to kill enemy units and since EHM gives promoted enemies bonuses these are quite bulky, meanwhile the two wyvern knights also slow you down and since they are naturally bulky they aren't easily 1RKO unless you have a super strong unit meaning that there's more strategy involved in here rather than just charge with a swordreaver and brave axe Hector/Hawkeye and win.

So were would I put more enemy units in LHM?

Spoiler

Before I start I reccomend you use this page: https://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe7.htm to easily visualize what I mean, the chapters are right below if it's in spanish just search for the yellow words that say "Capitulo". Also Whenever I say increase the level of that isn't the bosses I mean it from level 1 since all (or most) LM enemies are level 1. Other things to note is that when I say reinforcements they aren't ambush reinforcements but when I say ambush spawns, then they are.

Prologue: Here we just add one brigand and nothing else this brigand would go 2 squares left and 3 up from where the non-boss one is.

Chapter 1: Here we add an archer, from the brigand directly down to the boss we move 3 squares and deploy him there.

Chapter 2: Here we add an archer again, from the brigand entrapped in the forest, you move 3 spaces and that's where he goes, then increase the level of the entrapped brigand by 1 and the boss' by 2

Chapter 3: In this chapter I add a Mercenary but he actually makes life easier for you to train Florina since he would be at the most northwest point in the map.

Chapter 4: Dorcas gets Hard Mode bonuses but before you say OP remember that FE7's hard mode bonuses aren't as high as those that get them in FE6 so it's more like a bit of HP, SKL and DEF. As for enemies I increse the levels of all enemies by 2 so the defend part draws out longer and the boss also rises by 2, I add one brigand to the top-left corner of the map and add reinforcements of same level brigands through turns 5 - 7.

Chapter 5: On vanilla FE7 this map is so dull, you have a 8 unit army against 7 that's so pathetic so it might seem like I will add a lot of units but I'm really just balancing it. First of all for brigands I'm adding 2 one to the top-left corner with ambush spawns appearing in this spot on turn 5 for 4 turns so that there's no way to clear the chapter without encountering these reinforcements, by turn 3 (however because of the diferent formation [stated  little further] this gets you while you're in the middle but still the brigands are very far away from you) but if you killed the boss last chapter they appear for 3 turns only; and the other brigand on the top-right corner the Peaks making him a harder enemy. And then 2 mercenaries separated by one square horizontally would be immediatelly to the right of the lake below the lower half-circle formation of trees. The the boss would have a Hand Axe which means he does less damage but it's to prevent Sain, Kent and Florina to Javelin them with his WTA 1-2 range and would deal considerable damage to Erk alongside giving him 2 levels. Finally the units formation is rotated counter clockwise 90 degrees with the same shape and to know give you a sense of where exactly, Lyn is in the forest that previously was to the right of Dorcas.

Chapter 6: All enemies here are 4 levels higherand the boss instead 3 with a fixed +2 Speed to go from 2 to 4. 1 square right and 1 square down where Rath would on the tutorial step there would be a steel bow archer. another archer would be at one of the sides of the boss since the one at the front would also be moved to one of his sides and both would have a steel bow. If we draw a line that goes through all soldiers on the only forest we would encounter we place a mercenary there with a Steel sword. A soldier would be infront of the boss but this one wouldn't get HM bonuses he is just a level 1 soldier. A thing to note is that all enemies inside the chambers that are not unlocked at the start except for the one guarding the armorslayer are ambush spawns this seems bad but it actually makes it faster since you open their door and they come towards you.

Chapter 7: All enemies here are 4 levels higher except the boss who is 2, and there's 3 more enemies, 2 shamans and 1 archer, the first shaman would be on the forest next to the brigand below the boss, and the second one would be 1 space to the left of the fort that isn't already occupied. The archer would be below the tree snag with a steel bow and he would be a lv3 archer instead, this you might be able to guess why it's the case. Reinforcements? Not many, just 1 enemy from the unoccupied fort at turn 5 who would be a mercenary.

Chapter 7x: All enemies here are 5 levels higher (Being that it's a side chapter and those are supposed to be harder) So this chapter only has one more enemy that isn't a reinforcement and that's a cavalier with a steel sword which would be 3 spaces right and 1 up from where the boss is. Reinforcements there are more, First of all on the 1st column of the map (up and down) the only spaces that aren't walls will have cavaliers equipped with iron lances coming from turn 6 to 8, on the only cavalier in the vanilla chapter 1 square above him will have mercenaries appearing through Turns 3 and 4 and on the stairs on turn 6 a mage comes out with a stealable vulnerary. The boss is 3 levels higher and he has a fixed +3 RES so he has 4.

Chapter 8: All enemies here are 4 levels higher this chapter is probably the best of the lyn ones. For enemies we will have one mage to the right of the shaman, an archer 3 spaces to the right and one up from the nearest mercenary to the team and 2 separated pegasus knights with Iron lances on the two lower corners. The unit deployment is lowered from 9 to 7 and the boss is 5 levels higher with a notable-ish fixed +2 speed for 5 speed.

Chapter 9: All enemies here are 4 levels higher. A small tweak storywise I guess is that wallace shows as a red unit before the chapter begins but is turned blue kind of like Miledy, this gives him HM bonuses but they are small buffs to skill, luck and speed. This chapter is difficult somewhat already so I'll only add 1 and that is a Sniper yeah the first promoted regular enemy and has a secret book you can choose to steal from him but he is somewhat strong as you will expect, thankfully he arrives in the top-right corner on turn 8 where you almost already dealt with everything, additionally Fog of War would be removed on turn 7 so it's definitely not BS here, Eagler would only have 1 more speed and 3 more skill and also your deployment slots are lowered to 7 not counting Wallace.

Chapter 10: All enemies here are 5You can bring all 13 units? Nope only 8 now. As for enemies there are 2 fighters on the lower island one 2 squares below the vendor and the other 2 squares left and 1 up from the previous fighter. then we have one mage 1 square up and 1 left from the shaman, 3 pegasus knights that are reinforcements on turn 5 to imagine their location imagine a formation surrounding the brigand on the mountains except for his left and move that formation 2 squares down and 1 square left. Finally we have a promoted unit which is the same knight Lundgren uses to defend himself now a general but he doesn't increase in levels so his stats are as if he just promoted at whatever level he was in LNM and an additional +3 Skl and + 3 speed but he would be wielding an Iron axe, easy kill for the armorslayer there. Lundgren himself gets a fixed +2 speed and +2 skill and +1 Def.


Anyway a lot of this might seem very hard but remember that players will be going over LHM when they already beated normal mode.

 

5 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

you're a series veteran

not everyone who plays fe7 is a series veteran

fe is, as a series, difficult

having an easy path to complete the game in LNM -> ENM is a good thing

it shouldn't be forced tbf

"i want EM to be harder" - well, play EHM

"I don't want to play LM" - well, skip it

not every mode has to be aimed at you to be good.

I started playing last year.

Myself included

After FE6 all games follow the trend of 1RKO enemies in the midgame and lategame.

Obviously, I never said no to that normal mode should be easy I'm not concerned about that.

Have you played EHM? It's a joke

I don't want to play a boring lyn mode, and I also never said I didn't want to play LM so I don't know where you got that from.

Never said so, but when others too say LHM and EHM are easy then HMMMMMMMMM let's think 'bout it.


On a secondary note what's up with the stupid grammar? Were you in a hurry or something? Would make sense since all your points are dumb and I already stated why.

[MacLovin]

29 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I don't really agree with this statement since enemies at LV1 offer little challenge and giving more exp would actually make it so that players consider playing LM more if you play LM with only the "efficient" units like Florina, Sain and Kent then yeah they will reach level 10 but if you're playing like most people do battles ususally just give 3-10 EXP per battle/kill because of the low enemy level and changing them per map is a bigger hazzle when increasing levels is just as easy and actually gives you more chance to train more of your prefered units, and since it's made for newer players then allowing units to be stronger would be better plus even when I started playing FE7 Lyn mode never gave a challenge to me with the exception of vortex of strategy, which is the first you-must-actually-somewhat-plan-this-chapter chapter but other than that even Lundgren falls very easily and never feels like a treat even for me when I was a newcomer.

I disagree with this fact, it is true that having more than 50 enemies in a map is bad like in PoR's maniac mode chapter 26, that map is absolute hell but increasing the quantity of enemies can make a map not just harder but strategically different.

Let's take the example of EHM's first chapter where there are 2 additional bandits in the north, this doesn't seem to make much of a difference but it does because in normal mode you would simply go up then west and then down with no consideration for the upper part of the map but in hard mode the inclusion of those 2 bandits and no healer actually makes some of your units have a higher chance of death, except Marcus, now let's see how you would approach this map, you go up then west and encounter the 2 bandits and spread out rather than immediately outnumber the 2 bandits that in normal mode approached from the south rather here you have moved differently because of map design making you adapt to it.

Or how about chapter 26x where there are a few more enemies which are 1 hero, 1 general and 2 wyvern knights but these seemingly insignificant changes actually makes you slow down in a way for you to not easily rush past the enemies since the heroes are very fast and the generals very tanky they will get in your way, it will give a somewhat similarity to FE6 where you need several units to kill enemy units and since EHM gives promoted enemies bonuses these are quite bulky, meanwhile the two wyvern knights also slow you down and since they are naturally bulky they aren't easily 1RKO unless you have a super strong unit meaning that there's more strategy involved in here rather than just charge with a swordreaver and brave axe Hector/Hawkeye and win.

So were would I put more enemy units in LHM?

  Reveal hidden contents

Before I start I reccomend you use this page: https://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe7.htm to easily visualize what I mean, the chapters are right below if it's in spanish just search for the yellow words that say "Capitulo". Also Whenever I say increase the level of that isn't the bosses I mean it from level 1 since all (or most) LM enemies are level 1. Other things to note is that when I say reinforcements they aren't ambush reinforcements but when I say ambush spawns, then they are.

Prologue: Here we just add one brigand and nothing else this brigand would go 2 squares left and 3 up from where the non-boss one is.

Chapter 1: Here we add an archer, from the brigand directly down to the boss we move 3 squares and deploy him there.

Chapter 2: Here we add an archer again, from the brigand entrapped in the forest, you move 3 spaces and that's where he goes, then increase the level of the entrapped brigand by 1 and the boss' by 2

Chapter 3: In this chapter I add a Mercenary but he actually makes life easier for you to train Florina since he would be at the most northwest point in the map.

Chapter 4: Dorcas gets Hard Mode bonuses but before you say OP remember that FE7's hard mode bonuses aren't as high as those that get them in FE6 so it's more like a bit of HP, SKL and DEF. As for enemies I increse the levels of all enemies by 2 so the defend part draws out longer and the boss also rises by 2, I add one brigand to the top-left corner of the map and add reinforcements of same level brigands through turns 5 - 7.

Chapter 5: On vanilla FE7 this map is so dull, you have a 8 unit army against 7 that's so pathetic so it might seem like I will add a lot of units but I'm really just balancing it. First of all for brigands I'm adding 2 one to the top-left corner with ambush spawns appearing in this spot on turn 5 for 4 turns so that there's no way to clear the chapter without encountering these reinforcements, by turn 3 (however because of the diferent formation [stated  little further] this gets you while you're in the middle but still the brigands are very far away from you) but if you killed the boss last chapter they appear for 3 turns only; and the other brigand on the top-right corner the Peaks making him a harder enemy. And then 2 mercenaries separated by one square horizontally would be immediatelly to the right of the lake below the lower half-circle formation of trees. The the boss would have a Hand Axe which means he does less damage but it's to prevent Sain, Kent and Florina to Javelin them with his WTA 1-2 range and would deal considerable damage to Erk alongside giving him 2 levels. Finally the units formation is rotated counter clockwise 90 degrees with the same shape and to know give you a sense of where exactly, Lyn is in the forest that previously was to the right of Dorcas.

Chapter 6: All enemies here are 4 levels higherand the boss instead 3 with a fixed +2 Speed to go from 2 to 4. 1 square right and 1 square down where Rath would on the tutorial step there would be a steel bow archer. another archer would be at one of the sides of the boss since the one at the front would also be moved to one of his sides and both would have a steel bow. If we draw a line that goes through all soldiers on the only forest we would encounter we place a mercenary there with a Steel sword. A soldier would be infront of the boss but this one wouldn't get HM bonuses he is just a level 1 soldier. A thing to note is that all enemies inside the chambers that are not unlocked at the start except for the one guarding the armorslayer are ambush spawns this seems bad but it actually makes it faster since you open their door and they come towards you.

Chapter 7: All enemies here are 4 levels higher except the boss who is 2, and there's 3 more enemies, 2 shamans and 1 archer, the first shaman would be on the forest next to the brigand below the boss, and the second one would be 1 space to the left of the fort that isn't already occupied. The archer would be below the tree snag with a steel bow and he would be a lv3 archer instead, this you might be able to guess why it's the case. Reinforcements? Not many, just 1 enemy from the unoccupied fort at turn 5 who would be a mercenary.

Chapter 7x: All enemies here are 5 levels higher (Being that it's a side chapter and those are supposed to be harder) So this chapter only has one more enemy that isn't a reinforcement and that's a cavalier with a steel sword which would be 3 spaces right and 1 up from where the boss is. Reinforcements there are more, First of all on the 1st column of the map (up and down) the only spaces that aren't walls will have cavaliers equipped with iron lances coming from turn 6 to 8, on the only cavalier in the vanilla chapter 1 square above him will have mercenaries appearing through Turns 3 and 4 and on the stairs on turn 6 a mage comes out with a stealable vulnerary. The boss is 3 levels higher and he has a fixed +3 RES so he has 4.

Chapter 8: All enemies here are 4 levels higher this chapter is probably the best of the lyn ones. For enemies we will have one mage to the right of the shaman, an archer 3 spaces to the right and one up from the nearest mercenary to the team and 2 separated pegasus knights with Iron lances on the two lower corners. The unit deployment is lowered from 9 to 7 and the boss is 5 levels higher with a notable-ish fixed +2 speed for 5 speed.

Chapter 9: All enemies here are 4 levels higher. A small tweak storywise I guess is that wallace shows as a red unit before the chapter begins but is turned blue kind of like Miledy, this gives him HM bonuses but they are small buffs to skill, luck and speed. This chapter is difficult somewhat already so I'll only add 1 and that is a Sniper yeah the first promoted regular enemy and has a secret book you can choose to steal from him but he is somewhat strong as you will expect, thankfully he arrives in the top-right corner on turn 8 where you almost already dealt with everything, additionally Fog of War would be removed on turn 7 so it's definitely not BS here, Eagler would only have 1 more speed and 3 more skill and also your deployment slots are lowered to 7 not counting Wallace.

Chapter 10: All enemies here are 5You can bring all 13 units? Nope only 8 now. As for enemies there are 2 fighters on the lower island one 2 squares below the vendor and the other 2 squares left and 1 up from the previous fighter. then we have one mage 1 square up and 1 left from the shaman, 3 pegasus knights that are reinforcements on turn 5 to imagine their location imagine a formation surrounding the brigand on the mountains except for his left and move that formation 2 squares down and 1 square left. Finally we have a promoted unit which is the same knight Lundgren uses to defend himself now a general but he doesn't increase in levels so his stats are as if he just promoted at whatever level he was in LNM and an additional +3 Skl and + 3 speed but he would be wielding an Iron axe, easy kill for the armorslayer there. Lundgren himself gets a fixed +2 speed and +2 skill and +1 Def.


Anyway a lot of this might seem very hard but remember that players will be going over LHM when they already beated normal mode.

 

I started playing last year.

Myself included

After FE6 all games follow the trend of 1RKO enemies in the midgame and lategame.

Obviously, I never said no to that normal mode should be easy I'm not concerned about that.

Have you played EHM? It's a joke

I don't want to play a boring lyn mode, and I also never said I didn't want to play LM so I don't know where you got that from.

Never said so, but when others too say LHM and EHM are easy then HMMMMMMMMM let's think 'bout it.


On a secondary note what's up with the stupid grammar? Were you in a hurry or something? Would make sense since all your points are dumb and I already stated why.

i mean tbf your entire tone is kind of intentionally confrontational over the game that isn't catered to just long-time players and was in fact the OG FE release to the rest of the world.

 

also have you played fe12 reverse lunatic or fe13 lunatic +?

How about conquest lunatic?

or fe9 maniac mode, or fe10 hard mode.

the list goes on, but essentially the game's a slog at lower difficulties. Still some people find it fun to just chill and play their fave FE series on HHM (like me).

 

 

i mean sure it's tedious and easy, but that's just something to accept. or maybe play a difficulty patch or sth.

[Parrhesia]

52 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

On a secondary note what's up with the stupid grammar? Were you in a hurry or something? Would make sense since all your points are dumb and I already stated why.

The grammar is actually perfect, you're confusing it with capitalisation and punctuation But let's pretend for a second that you're worth paragraphs, because it's a slow night and I have nothing better to do. Also because you were literally three or four years old when I started playing FE, five when I joined the forums, and fuck does that make me feel old.

In this context, veteran reflected experience, not age. If you've played FE6 and have, presumably, played FE7 multiple times (within a year and a half? Get a life) and whine about how not everyone can be a cool grognard like you, why not every mode caters to cool grognards like you, then suck it up, holmes; you are not the target audience of casual difficulties. You are the target audience of the big and complex mode of FE7. That mode is HHM. Play HHM. Then re-examine the life choices that made you play FE7 multiple times in the first place.

And, look, in a way I agree with you. LM's tutorial is insulting even to new players; EM was left incomplete as, I guess, an incentive to replay the game. But the difficulty isn't a problem. FE7 has easy modes. Their job is literally to be easy modes. LHM, 'hard' or not, is still just the tutorial levels plus a few stat gains here and there and without the seven sets of training wheels on. EHM (through a few more stats) and HNM (through a bit more complexity) exist to be intermediate modes. Complain about LM and EM because they're boring, sure! They are boring! But your only angle has been that they're 'super easy' and should be made 'harder', which misses the point of why they exist. The option for difficulty is already there. It's called HHM. Play it.

[eclipse]

. . .or do something like a draft run of EHM, which is actually somewhat of a challenge.  Go to the Drafts subforum, pick a team, and run with it, keeping the restrictions in mind.

[MacLovin]

6 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

The grammar is actually perfect, you're confusing it with capitalisation and punctuation But let's pretend for a second that you're worth paragraphs, because it's a slow night and I have nothing better to do. Also because you were literally three or four years old when I started playing FE, five when I joined the forums, and fuck does that make me feel old.

In this context, veteran reflected experience, not age. If you've played FE6 and have, presumably, played FE7 multiple times (within a year and a half? Get a life) and whine about how not everyone can be a cool grognard like you, why not every mode caters to cool grognards like you, then suck it up, holmes; you are not the target audience of casual difficulties. You are the target audience of the big and complex mode of FE7. That mode is HHM. Play HHM. Then re-examine the life choices that made you play FE7 multiple times in the first place.

And, look, in a way I agree with you. LM's tutorial is insulting even to new players; EM was left incomplete as, I guess, an incentive to replay the game. But the difficulty isn't a problem. FE7 has easy modes. Their job is literally to be easy modes. LHM, 'hard' or not, is still just the tutorial levels plus a few stat gains here and there and without the seven sets of training wheels on. EHM (through a few more stats) and HNM (through a bit more complexity) exist to be intermediate modes. Complain about LM and EM because they're boring, sure! They are boring! But your only angle has been that they're 'super easy' and should be made 'harder', which misses the point of why they exist. The option for difficulty is already there. It's called HHM. Play it.

didn't they buff shit in fe7/8 for the NA versions?

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Joe Cool said:

didn't they buff shit in fe7/8 for the NA versions?

Not outrageously, but there were some tweaks in FE7, most notably the reduction of the effective Mt multiplier from 3x to 2x. Which means Florina can survive a stray arrow, but it also nerfed 'Becca and Wil in the process.

SS had a lot more changes, typically making things easier. Although Eirika Mode Cormag got nerfed.

https://serenesforest.net/general/localisation-changes/gameplay/

 

[Dunal]

8 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I don't really agree with this statement since enemies at LV1 offer little challenge and giving more exp would actually make it so that players consider playing LM more if you play LM with only the "efficient" units like Florina, Sain and Kent then yeah they will reach level 10 but if you're playing like most people do battles ususally just give 3-10 EXP per battle/kill because of the low enemy level and changing them per map is a bigger hazzle when increasing levels is just as easy and actually gives you more chance to train more of your prefered units, and since it's made for newer players then allowing units to be stronger would be better plus even when I started playing FE7 Lyn mode never gave a challenge to me with the exception of vortex of strategy, which is the first you-must-actually-somewhat-plan-this-chapter chapter but other than that even Lundgren falls very easily and never feels like a treat even for me when I was a newcomer.

Higher level enemies will just do the opposite of what you're saying based on how exactly the EXP formula works; higher level enemies benefit your higher level units in terms of EXP more than lower level ones (in terms of total EXP gained). So all that happens is that your level 8-10 units can keep gaining EXP while your lower levelled ones don't really benefit from enemies being more than LV1. Instead, keeping the latter sort of soft-locks your units from going above ~LV8 which already gives you incentive to train everyone.

As I said before, the best solution is increasing enemy bases on a per-map basis, especially since some LM enemies have negative bases (on top of class bases). Level doesn't necessarily indicate the strength of enemies, it's really just a valve for EXP gain since stats can be changed outside of level (same as player units). Still, I would make additional changes to the EXP formula to further accommodate lower level units, so that alone is sufficient if you're talking about LHM. 

8 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I disagree with this fact, it is true that having more than 50 enemies in a map is bad like in PoR's maniac mode chapter 26, that map is absolute hell but increasing the quantity of enemies can make a map not just harder but strategically different.

A majority of the time quality > quantity. Having enemies being sufficiently strong, being positioned correctly, or having good AI etc... Is better than just adding more enemies in the context of the main game. Lyn mode? I mean, sure, some maps have very few enemies, so you could make the argument that a few more could exist. Otherwise, there are certainly improvements you can make to the difficulty of later maps without really changing the quantity of enemies (which the latter will usually effect map flow/progression in a negative way). I mean, look at FE12 -- its tutorial maps have very low quantities of enemies but are some of the hardest maps in the series depending on the mode you're playing.

5 hours ago, eclipse said:

. . .or do something like a draft run of EHM, which is actually somewhat of a challenge.  Go to the Drafts subforum, pick a team, and run with it, keeping the restrictions in mind.

I think for EHM, all it takes is drafting 1-2 strong units to near solo the game with. Might be a bit different with HHM if you were to ban Marcus and a couple other units.

I would suggest to play a randomiser that increases enemy growth by ~15% and then play as if Thracia's fatigue existed (as in, you can't deploy a unit twice in a row outside of forced deployment) and then maybe have 1-2 points of variation for base stats to make unit consideration a bit different. That's a low effort way to make the game legitimately more challenging, even if it's not necessarily the best way either (given more effort to change individual aspects of the game). Heck, even just increasing enemy growths might be all that's needed to make EHM feel more like HHM if that's the objective.

Really depends on what kind of difficulty the OP is aiming for. Based on their skill level, a 0% growth run for instance could still be 'too easy' for them, in which case, arbitrary changes to certain aspects of the game (or limits) wouldn't matter much. It isn't suddenly going to turn into Lunatic FE12/Conquest without an extensive overhaul to the game, if that's what they're after. 

7 hours ago, Joe Cool said:

i mean tbf your entire tone is kind of intentionally confrontational over the game that isn't catered to just long-time players and was in fact the OG FE release to the rest of the world.

In fairness their desire to play a more challenging Lyn/Eliwood mode doesn't necessarily mean they're implying that the game is inherently flawed or anything, since HHM exists and all. Anything is possible through hacking so merely discussing how they'd want the game to be more difficult isn't a bad thing, even if I don't necessarily agree with their tone either (your points aren't "dumb" at all in context to the original game and why it was designed the way it is).

Edited September 16, 2018 by Dunal

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Dunal said:

I think for EHM, all it takes is drafting 1-2 strong units to near solo the game with. Might be a bit different with HHM if you were to ban Marcus and a couple other units.

A draft is two parts:

1. Actually getting those strong units.
2. Getting the lowest turn count possible.

For someone who's never done it before, it's not as easy as it sounds.

[MacLovin]

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not outrageously, but there were some tweaks in FE7, most notably the reduction of the effective Mt multiplier from 3x to 2x. Which means Florina can survive a stray arrow, but it also nerfed 'Becca and Wil in the process.

SS had a lot more changes, typically making things easier. Although Eirika Mode Cormag got nerfed.

https://serenesforest.net/general/localisation-changes/gameplay/

 

a 2x multiplier means that the mounts and armors get a weird little buff, but yeah

it fucks over archers and effective-weaponry relient sword dudes

4 hours ago, Dunal said:

Higher level enemies will just do the opposite of what you're saying based on how exactly the EXP formula works; higher level enemies benefit your higher level units in terms of EXP more than lower level ones (in terms of total EXP gained). So all that happens is that your level 8-10 units can keep gaining EXP while your lower levelled ones don't really benefit from enemies being more than LV1. Instead, keeping the latter sort of soft-locks your units from going above ~LV8 which already gives you incentive to train everyone.

As I said before, the best solution is increasing enemy bases on a per-map basis, especially since some LM enemies have negative bases (on top of class bases). Level doesn't necessarily indicate the strength of enemies, it's really just a valve for EXP gain since stats can be changed outside of level (same as player units). Still, I would make additional changes to the EXP formula to further accommodate lower level units, so that alone is sufficient if you're talking about LHM. 

A majority of the time quality > quantity. Having enemies being sufficiently strong, being positioned correctly, or having good AI etc... Is better than just adding more enemies in the context of the main game. Lyn mode? I mean, sure, some maps have very few enemies, so you could make the argument that a few more could exist. Otherwise, there are certainly improvements you can make to the difficulty of later maps without really changing the quantity of enemies (which the latter will usually effect map flow/progression in a negative way). I mean, look at FE12 -- its tutorial maps have very low quantities of enemies but are some of the hardest maps in the series depending on the mode you're playing.

I think for EHM, all it takes is drafting 1-2 strong units to near solo the game with. Might be a bit different with HHM if you were to ban Marcus and a couple other units.

I would suggest to play a randomiser that increases enemy growth by ~15% and then play as if Thracia's fatigue existed (as in, you can't deploy a unit twice in a row outside of forced deployment) and then maybe have 1-2 points of variation for base stats to make unit consideration a bit different. That's a low effort way to make the game legitimately more challenging, even if it's not necessarily the best way either (given more effort to change individual aspects of the game). Heck, even just increasing enemy growths might be all that's needed to make EHM feel more like HHM if that's the objective.

Really depends on what kind of difficulty the OP is aiming for. Based on their skill level, a 0% growth run for instance could still be 'too easy' for them, in which case, arbitrary changes to certain aspects of the game (or limits) wouldn't matter much. It isn't suddenly going to turn into Lunatic FE12/Conquest without an extensive overhaul to the game, if that's what they're after. 

In fairness their desire to play a more challenging Lyn/Eliwood mode doesn't necessarily mean they're implying that the game is inherently flawed or anything, since HHM exists and all. Anything is possible through hacking so merely discussing how they'd want the game to be more difficult isn't a bad thing, even if I don't necessarily agree with their tone either (your points aren't "dumb" at all in context to the original game and why it was designed the way it is).

for EHM drafting, it's a bit more complex.

generally it goes like Lowen>Florina>Fiora/Sain/Kent>Heath since mounts are in super high demand. Pent/Canas/Erk/Lucius go second-early 3rd due to warp+good magic. After this, it's either by combat (Raven, Dart), utility (Isadora, Rath, Priscilla,  Hawkeye), or availibility (Oswin, Dorcas

for HHM drafting, it becomes more like

Florina>Fiora/Lowen/Pent>Sain/Kent/Heath for the first two rounds

also drafts aren't easy if you're playing them for ltc.

I think Parr hit the nail on the head with

11 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

But your only angle has been that they're 'super easy' and should be made 'harder', which misses the point of why they exist. The option for difficulty is already there. It's called HHM. Play it.

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Joe Cool

[Balcerzak]

EHM (ranked) is a pretty decently balanced difficulty, from memory. If you're not satisfied with the base experience, the game provides additional tools for challenge and judging yourself.