fates The Worst Part of Fates

[henrymidfields]

On 10/24/2018 at 12:03 PM, 1% Critical Hit said:

This!
We don't even know the name of the continent where the "story" is "developing"! We know that it has a Bottomless Canyon, some Endless Stairs and some independent nations/tribes that appear one time only.

Both the story and the backstory were so bad, I decided to rewrite all of the chapters/stories in Conquest on my aborted LP. It is really depressing when fanfic and the like are considered better than the official canon. Of the ones that I played 6 had a rather typical story that was raised up with well-thought out, and well-detailed backstories of geopolitics between the nations. We know why the people in the Western Isles are itching for rebellions, we know (partly) how Sacae got overrun by Bernians, we know how the countries and cultures influence individual characters, and we also know that the players' side also have some bad apples that Roy ended up opposing against. (Aracard, Roartz, Eric, etc)

It makes me wonder how on earth did TMSFE get so reviled when that has nowhere near the story debacle as Fates did.

Edited November 11, 2018 by henrymidfields

[Etrurian emperor]

15 minutes ago, henrymidfields said:

Both the story and the backstory were so bad, I decided to rewrite all of the chapters/stories in Conquest on my aborted LP. It is really depressing when fanfic and the like are considered better than the official canon. Of the ones that I played 6 had a rather typical story that was raised up with well-thought out, and well-detailed backstories of geopolitics between the nations. We know why the people in the Western Isles are itching for rebellions, we know (partly) how Sacae got overrun by Bernians, we know how the countries and cultures influence individual characters, and we also know that the players' side also have some bad apples that Roy ended up opposing against. (Aracard, Roartz, Eric, etc)

Tellius got the crown when it comes to FE world building but Elibe gets a very respectable second place. Each country is politically different from the others and in Sacae's case even visually different. Lycians, Bernese, Saceans and Etrusians are all different and behave differently, and its great. 

It does recycle some things though. I mean, Aracard and Roartz are pretty obviously Rex and Langobalt for example and Etruria is a mix between Archenea and Grandbell with it sending Roy the the western isles not being that much different from Hardin sending Marth to Grust. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[DragonFlames]

0/10 Poll. Didn't include the option "Everything".

All joking aside, it's the characters that kill this game for me. And the plot, of course, but I can excuse a bad story if the characters are good, which they aren't. The very few that are decent get shafted with maybe an introductory textbox and then they are nothing more than another guy / gal you can use as cannonfodder while the truly terrible characters hog all the spotlight and have all the other characters constantly say how amazing and awesome and infallible they are - heck, even the story itself does that. Even the GAME itself does that by making these terrible characters so OP they make all the other characters superfluous just by existing.

[Hecatia]

On 10/24/2018 at 10:41 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Tellius got the crown when it comes to FE world building but Elibe gets a very respectable second place. Each country is politically different from the others and in Sacae's case even visually different. Lycians, Bernese, Saceans and Etrusians are all different and behave differently, and its great. 

It does recycle some things though. I mean, Aracard and Roartz are pretty obviously Rex and Langobalt for example and Etruria is a mix between Archenea and Grandbell with it sending Roy the the western isles not being that much different from Hardin sending Marth to Grust. 

And those times where we had the opportunity to see those places, weren't for a one time only cutscene or map.

I wanted to know more about Valla bu.... ..... ....!

Kidding! But yeah, only thing we know is that it's a floating kingdom in ruins because of a degenerated first dragon.

[Rapaille]

The fact that I had to pay 80 euros (which is around 90 dollars) to get the full game.

I don't know what other people think about the price but this really bothers me. Instead of making one game in which you can choose your route, you have to pay more to understand the full story. Some might say that every route is a game but That's not how I see it because 1. they have the same 6 (or was it 7?) beginning chapters 2. You miss a lot of information when you only play one route (at some point they even say things like 'If only we fought on the same side.' or 'Are there other forces at play?') and this is the most important one. It is possible to have all 3 routes on one cartridge. 

I think that if Fates had all routes on one cartridge and the game had the average price of a 3ds game I would be a lot more forgiving to it. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by LJwalhout

[Ertrick36]

39 minutes ago, LJwalhout said:

I don't what other people think about the price but this really bothers me. Instead of making one game in which you can choose your route, you have to pay more to understand the full story. Some might say that every route is a game but That's not how I see it because 1. they have the same 6 (or was it 7?) beginning chapters 2. You miss a lot of information when you only play one route (at some point they even say things like 'If only we fought on the same side.' or 'Are there other forces at play?') and this is the most important one. It is possible to have all 3 routes on one cartridge. 

I think that if Fates had all routes on one cartridge and the game had the average price of a 3ds game I would be a lot more forgiving to it. 

It was six chapters for the beginning, with the sixth having some deviations of the same map.  Also, some maps are shared between paths (e.g. the Mokushu chapter is the same in Revelation and Birthright, except the placement of units is different).

What annoys me as a consumer about it is not the pricing so much as them baiting you to buy another path.  Of course there might be a natural desire to see what the other paths would be like, but in both of the base paths you always have that hint about something more at play.  Also that they claim Fates is a game about choice, but the only real "choice" is locked behind a paywall.  There's, like, one other story choice in any of the paths, and it's to choose whether or not to kill a guy in Conquest.

I feel like no matter what, people would've had complaints about it.  The business practices merely added another thing to complain about.  I'm still complaining about the fact that we didn't get all of the DLC localized, and that's part of a growing pile of things that piss me off about Japanese video game companies lately.

[Errorik]

7 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

It was six chapters for the beginning, with the sixth having some deviations of the same map.  Also, some maps are shared between paths (e.g. the Mokushu chapter is the same in Revelation and Birthright, except the placement of units is different).

What annoys me as a consumer about it is not the pricing so much as them baiting you to buy another path.  Of course there might be a natural desire to see what the other paths would be like, but in both of the base paths you always have that hint about something more at play.  Also that they claim Fates is a game about choice, but the only real "choice" is locked behind a paywall.  There's, like, one other story choice in any of the paths, and it's to choose whether or not to kill a guy in Conquest.

I feel like no matter what, people would've had complaints about it.  The business practices merely added another thing to complain about.  I'm still complaining about the fact that we didn't get all of the DLC localized, and that's part of a growing pile of things that piss me off about Japanese video game companies lately.

You mean Japanese video game companies since forever?

[Ertrick36]

2 hours ago, Centh said:

You mean Japanese video game companies since forever?

More referring to how I've been feeling about them when I say "lately".  As in, I've only recently been realizing all the ways they can suck.

The biggest thing I hate is this idea of Japanese exclusivity.  I wouldn't have thought their xenophobia would extend to some of their business practices (since, you know, being inclusive is objectively the best route in any enterprise), yet sometimes they'll just withhold stuff from western audiences for no real reason.  I could maybe understand that they figured a localization of the last few DLC expansions for Fates would not be "economically viable", but then there's random crap like Bandai Namco only giving Japan this little costume preorder bonus in Soulcalibur VI, even though it's literally just a few costume pieces.  And as if it wasn't enough, some idiot fanboy corporate shills from there will call us "selfish Americans" (it's always specifically "Americans") for wanting that stuff.  So when dealing with some VG companies in Japan, I A) don't always get everything I'd want from a game and B) get called an asshole for wanting said things.

It's a real wonder a lot of their companies struggle internationally if this is how they (and their fandoms at home) treat their western consumers.  Now that I think about it, I'm a little shocked Fire Emblem Fates was one of the more successful entries in the series, considering how it's effectively three financial gut punches and at least two corporate groin kicks for the consumer and that so many people seem to have a plethora of complaints about it.  Ffs, Echoes got more flak for its DLC than Fates, and all it did was dare to throw you its full season pass price upfront.  I never really made a big stink about Fates and its DLC practices, but I at least understood where a lot of people were coming from; it made more sense to be mad about Fates' DLC practices than those of Echoes.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Ffs, Echoes got more flak for its DLC than Fates, and all it did was dare to throw you its full season pass price upfront.  I never really made a big stink about Fates and its DLC practices, but I at least understood where a lot of people were coming from; it made more sense to be mad about Fates' DLC practices than those of Echoes.

The issue is the SoV DLC costs more than the base game, has two sets of grinding DLC when no game needs more than one, the Overclasses are packaged individually and are frivolous junk due to being absolutely unnecessary and a chore to grind for.

This said, Rise of the Deliverance is supposed to be good (never bought it), and the Cipher DLC despite the recycled maps, is good and something of a reverse case in that we got when it was doubtful we would b/c no Cipher card game abroad.

[Errorik]

I'm actually a fan of DLC like the one to unlock vanguard or get Ana as a playable character. They don't really break the game (ok, promotion to vanguard early game is insane, but I use them as a 'master seal' for personal balance) and you get a cool chapter to play.

 

I'm not a fan of the split path thing (damn you, Pokemon!). It's not the worst, but I feel BR and Rev could've been scrapped to make CQ the best thing ever (development resource allocation). That being said, I do appreciate the extra content. I replay the titles a lot with each replay having different strategies and units used. Very excited for Three Houses! They likely also used it as a test to see what playstyle is more profitable (awakening route maps, strategy, map gimmicks) and/or to capture all the audiences possible for the game (face rubbing waifu/husbando sim).

[Rapaille]

On 26-10-2018 at 4:13 PM, Ertrick36 said:

It was six chapters for the beginning, with the sixth having some deviations of the same map.  Also, some maps are shared between paths (e.g. the Mokushu chapter is the same in Revelation and Birthright, except the placement of units is different).

What annoys me as a consumer about it is not the pricing so much as them baiting you to buy another path.  Of course there might be a natural desire to see what the other paths would be like, but in both of the base paths you always have that hint about something more at play.  Also that they claim Fates is a game about choice, but the only real "choice" is locked behind a paywall.  There's, like, one other story choice in any of the paths, and it's to choose whether or not to kill a guy in Conquest.

I feel like no matter what, people would've had complaints about it.  The business practices merely added another thing to complain about.  I'm still complaining about the fact that we didn't get all of the DLC localized, and that's part of a growing pile of things that piss me off about Japanese video game companies lately.

Forgot about those other shared maps. But fe11 and fe12 also did this if I remember so I don't know how valid it would be if I brought it up mostly because Revelations feels rushed  and I think that the only recycled maps between conquest and birthright is the dragonfall fort(9 cq-20 br) and the rainbow sage (11 cq-19 br) which isn't that bad if I found it okay in fe11 & fe12. It's more that they could easily include all 3 routes on one cartridge but didn't and the fact that you need to play all 3 routes to understand something about what's going on (how did Takumi or Garon suddenly go super evil? You won't know this without having played Revelations).

I think I already adressed the part about hints before and I also hate it. As for the pricing thing, consider that I was 16 when this game came out, didn't earn a lot of money and had to pay a lot by myself. Such a price was what I earned in half a year. So when the game feels rushed at times I feel like I wasted money and now I have to pay things like taxes so that does make me angry.

It is true that people would likely still complain about fates even if all 3 routes would be available on one cartridge for a normal price. But I feel like the pricing also plays a major role in how people think about Fates (while my friend also felt like Fates was lacking in places he was a lot calmer about it then me and I think that's because he never spent 80 euros on it). The DLC part about Fates also sounds frustrating but I rarely play Fates anymore.

Also, should I use dollars instead of euros when talking anout currency?

[god_ewan]

The characters were the worst part for me. The villains are boring and too one dimensional. I like the royals, but they are focused on too much. I don’t like how every royal has two retainers, I wish there was a little more diversity. 

[Roland]

Honestly, I would say the worst part about Fates is the characters. Outside of Laslow and Orboro, I can't think of a single character from Fates that I genuienly liked.

[Ertrick36]

11 hours ago, LJwalhout said:

Forgot about those other shared maps. But fe11 and fe12 also did this if I remember so I don't know how valid it would be if I brought it up mostly because Revelations feels rushed  and I think that the only recycled maps between conquest and birthright is the dragonfall fort(9 cq-20 br) and the rainbow sage (11 cq-19 br) which isn't that bad if I found it okay in fe11 & fe12. It's more that they could easily include all 3 routes on one cartridge but didn't and the fact that you need to play all 3 routes to understand something about what's going on (how did Takumi or Garon suddenly go super evil? You won't know this without having played Revelations).

I think I already adressed the part about hints before and I also hate it. As for the pricing thing, consider that I was 16 when this game came out, didn't earn a lot of money and had to pay a lot by myself. Such a price was what I earned in half a year. So when the game feels rushed at times I feel like I wasted money and now I have to pay things like taxes so that does make me angry.

It is true that people would likely still complain about fates even if all 3 routes would be available on one cartridge for a normal price. But I feel like the pricing also plays a major role in how people think about Fates (while my friend also felt like Fates was lacking in places he was a lot calmer about it then me and I think that's because he never spent 80 euros on it). The DLC part about Fates also sounds frustrating but I rarely play Fates anymore.

Also, should I use dollars instead of euros when talking anout currency?

Yeah, Mystery of the Emblem was pretty guilty of having shared maps between the books, and by extension between the two DS remakes.  It was actually a point of criticism directed at those games.  I include Revelation because even as little thought they may have put into it, it's still as expensive as the other path you have to download in-game so it's worthy of equal critical analysis to the other paths.

Everything's expensive when you're a teen, though; I could barely scrape together enough to buy a $20 DLC pack for an online game.  Unless it's a teenager who has to live on their own or provide for a household, I care more about the financial woes of an adult.  That being said, some adults make equally trite wages.  Though I'm also in the boat that I could think of worse uses for your money than Fire Emblem Fates.

I think the complaints about the price are misguided.  The complaints there shouldn't necessarily be directed at the cost; I'd say probably Centh is more on the money in that they should've just made a normal goddamn FE game instead of attempting to emulate Pokemon's formula.  I don't think 70+ chapters worth of FE should be priced the same as a regular 3DS game, I think FE games should just be normal sized.  There shouldn't be this confusion in the first place; the multiple paths formula is just not a good approach from a business standpoint.

It shouldn't matter what currency you use in discussions - you should talk about the currency you actually use and are familiar with.  If people need to know how much money you're talking about, they can just Google for conversions.  It's what I do all the time, and it takes less than ten seconds.  And for this discussion in particular, I don't think it's even necessary; I can infer that you're talking about a fully-priced game, and I can gauge pretty easily how expensive it might be from that alone.

[henrymidfields]

At most, they probably should have done something similar to the bad endings of Persona, and just fast forward to the ending, and show your consequences for your wrong decisions. And spend more time thinking about Conquest's story.

It makes me wonder how on earth did TMSFE get so reviled when that has nowhere near the story debacle as Fates did and at least had a new, unique setting/premise... And mind you, this is coming from someone who otherwise dislikes J-Pop in general.

Edited November 11, 2018 by henrymidfields

[Etrurian emperor]

On 28-10-2018 at 1:35 PM, Ertrick36 said:

Yeah, Mystery of the Emblem was pretty guilty of having shared maps between the books, and by extension between the two DS remakes.  It was actually a point of criticism directed at those games.  I include Revelation because even as little thought they may have put into it, it's still as expensive as the other path you have to download in-game so it's worthy of equal critical analysis to the other paths.

I think the shared maps can be somewhat justified in these cases because the fighting takes place in the same location. The map where Marth liberates Altea seems to be based on the entire country with some sections even being parts seen in the prologue. As such it wouldn't make much sense for the Altean map to become radically different when Marth has to liberate it a second time. When fighting Hardin he's also storming the same palace he has already taken in the past. 

Fates map switching did annoy me a little more but in some aspects they actually did it better. Sometimes they have you fight in the same location but in a different area. You got both a Mokushu cave and a forest, both the interior and exterior of Izumo and both the interior of the opera house and the rest of the city.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Etrurian emperor