My first FE7 team. Thoughts?

[Re: The weirdo.]

On 11/10/2018 at 11:15 AM, DiogoJorge said:

Bench Marcus as soon as you don't need him. And have Kent or Heath replace him.

lol no he doesn't fall off, especially on normal. He doesn't need to be replaced by anyone, there are enough slots for all 3, since they're all good units, with heath perhaps competing the most thanks to duff-ish bases

[DiogoJorge]

1 hour ago, (s)ad touch said:

lol no he doesn't fall off, especially on normal. He doesn't need to be replaced by anyone, there are enough slots for all 3, since they're all good units, with heath perhaps competing the most thanks to duff-ish bases

I don't understand why would anyone insist on using Marcus beyond chapter 20 when you already have plenty of good units with better growths and similiar stats to take all the deployment slots. But suit yourself.

Edited October 13, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[squid4001]

5 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Guy in my current playthrough has 7 Str and 16 Spd and he is level 16, Raven has 14 Str and capped speed at level 14 and since all unpromoted units caps except HP are 20 that means he has 20 speed. Like come on what? Guy always lacks the strength to kill anything unless you promote him at level 20 (bad idea) buy him expensive swords to do meaningful damage (not optimal play) or when he crits (which isn't something you must depend on 24/7 or else you'll be screwed over). And I'm using Guy only to know how he performs.

What I feel like I'm being told here is that ranked runs/ltc are the only ways to play that matter

[Hanes]

4 hours ago, squid4001 said:

What I feel like I'm being told here is that ranked runs/ltc are the only ways to play that matter

Ok so you take stats that Guy has in a normal playthrough which is really bad and say that I'm telling you to only play LTC/Ranked runds even though I only mentioned that for 1 of the 3 problems so you're saying my entire argument is 33% of what I really ever said.  But Shocker right here: Weapons costing a lot isn't a problem for optimal players, normal players also suffer because you don't have unlimited gold in any mode.


A silver sword costs 1,500 G in the GBA FE's which is a lot so why would I buy several expensive swords just so Guy can barely do enough damage when I could use cheaper steel swords and give them to someone like Raven and still have enough money left to buy something else for other units.

The problem with Guy is his low strength, if you check the enemies stats you see that they usually have low speed and/or are slowed down by a heavy weapon so for most generic enemies 12-14 speed works fine (which while he does get that speed quickly everyone else does in time for when they need to). And as for the bosses? Raven can double those too or the endgame ones can be critted with Luna by Canas or maybe killed by a tanky Lowen who doesn't fear a counter like most other units etc.

So Guy needs strength and at a low 6 strength base or 8 in HHM and a 30% growth for his strength; that stat will rarely go up, although I myself did get screwed because at level 16 he should have 9 strength, which isn't all that different actually from my 7. And the reason people believe he's strong is because he comes with a Killing Edge which is powerful but it breaks quickly and then when you keep finding mostly lance enemies he actually really sucks.

But that isn't his only problem he also lacks 2 more stats to be good: he lacks defense and he lacks range.

Let's go over the first one which is defense, his defense is utter trash 5 or 6 defense with his base hp of 21 or 25 means that even pegasus knights who have no problem sneaking past your defences attack him and take half of his hp away especially since many have Steel lances which means that if Guy is injured and you can't heal him well that proves lethal almost all the time and deense will rarely go up, it's a 15% growth that is horrible combine this with how almost every enemy in this game uses lances and his def is effectively almost always -1 and that also reduces his hit and avoid by 15 which is quite a dent if the enemy were on a house, on a pillar, on a forest, on a fort, on a throne or on a gate.

He has his second problem too and it's range or rather 1-2 range by that I mean he can never hit at both 1 and 2 range like lance users and axe users can with javeins and hand axes respectively so any enemy that can attack him at 2 range does and gets in the way and remember that against those lance enemies he is very fragile, Raven suffers from this problem too but upon promotion which because of his high level and stats is ok to do so at level 10 he gains axes and can immediately start using hand axes to be able to retaliate and also gets good promotion bonuses except for def which he lacks but less with his higher growth of def and hp stat. Guy upon promotion gets no new weapons, and +2 Strength and +2 Def what a good unit!

So there we go, a unit with extremely high speed but crippling strength and defense that makes him always a bad risk to use on enemy phase.

(Also on your signature it should be "A being in existence")

Edited October 13, 2018 by This boi uses Nino

[squid4001]

3 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

OK so you take stats that Guy has in a normal play through which is really bad and say that I'm telling you to only play LTC/Ranked runds even though I only mentioned that for 1 of the 3 problems so you're saying my entire argument is 33% of what I really ever said.  But Shocker right here: Weapons costing a lot isn't a problem for optimal players, normal players also suffer because you don't have unlimited gold in any mode.


A silver sword costs 1,500 G in the GBA FE's which is a lot so why would I buy several expensive swords just so Guy can barely do enough damage when I could use cheaper steel swords and give them to someone like Raven and still have enough money left to buy something else for other units.

The problem with Guy is his low strength, if you check the enemies stats you see that they usually have low speed and/or are slowed down by a heavy weapon so for most generic enemies 12-14 speed works fine (which while he does get that speed quickly everyone else does in time for when they need to). And as for the bosses? Raven can double those too or the endgame ones can be critted with Luna by Canas or maybe killed by a tanky Lowen who doesn't fear a counter like most other units etc.

So Guy needs strength and at a low 6 strength base or 8 in HHM and a 30% growth for his strength; that stat will rarely go up, although I myself did get screwed because at level 16 he should have 9 strength, which isn't all that different actually from my 7. And the reason people believe he's strong is because he comes with a Killing Edge which is powerful but it breaks quickly and then when you keep finding mostly lance enemies he actually really sucks.

But that isn't his only problem he also lacks 2 more stats to be good: he lacks defense and he lacks range.

Let's go over the first one which is defense, his defense is utter trash 5 or 6 defense with his base hp of 21 or 25 means that even Pegasus knights who have no problem sneaking past your defenses attack him and take half of his hp away especially since many have Steel lances which means that if Guy is injured and you can't heal him well that proves lethal almost all the time and defense will rarely go up, it's a 15% growth that is horrible combine this with how almost every enemy in this game uses lances and his def is effectively almost always -1 and that also reduces his hit and avoid by 15 which is quite a dent if the enemy were on a house, on a pillar, on a forest, on a fort, on a throne or on a gate.

He has his second problem too and it's range or rather 1-2 range by that I mean he can never hit at both 1 and 2 range like lance users and axe users can with javelins and hand axes respectively so any enemy that can attack him at 2 range does and gets in the way and remember that against those lance enemies he is very fragile, Raven suffers from this problem too but upon promotion which because of his high level and stats is ok to do so at level 10 he gains axes and can immediately start using hand axes to be able to retaliate and also gets good promotion bonuses except for def which he lacks but less with his higher growth of def and hp stat. Guy upon promotion gets no new weapons, and +2 Strength and +2 Def what a good unit!

So there we go, a unit with extremely high speed but crippling strength and defense that makes him always a bad risk to use on enemy phase.
 

okay, maybe I just got lucky when I used him. 

 

(edit) he easily caps speed though.

also Karel and Karla come with a wo dao which guy can use, because it not a prefered weapon.

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by squid4001

[Hanes]

1 hour ago, squid4001 said:

okay, maybe I just got lucky when I used him. 

(edit) he easily caps speed though.

also Karel and Karla come with a wo dao which guy can use, because it not a prefered weapon.

 

Well since you never explicitly show me or tell me of his stats I must wonder.

It doesn't matter though when all you need to double every enemy in the game except HHM Uhai who is undoubable and HHM Lloyd in the last chapter but excluding those you only need 24 speed to double everything in the game. And I bumb it to 20 because of a few bosses and some enemies like the valkyries in cog of destiny but otherwise 16 speed doubles anything else which everyone can easily reach.

It actually hs less might than the Killing edge and the same might as a steel sword

[DarthR0xas]

9 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

If someone told me that a unit is as good as Marcus, that would be grounds for me to bench him. Marcus is good for early game and a portion of midgame and that's it. A unit that falls off can never be best unit, since his stats are not good at all past that point. the best unit would be Hector with his overkill STR and DEF. 

Except for the fact that Blazing Sword's early and midgame are the hardest parts of the game, and the endgame is piss-easy due to lower-level enemy spam as opposed to higher level enemies. Marcus is great early game, with reliable ORKO's being dished out left and right. His amazing bases carry him the whole game. Midgame, he is still viable due to decent growths and his mount, and endgame he is only slightly below your other units. Cavaliers and Paladins are the best units in all of GBA Fire Emblem, so even if he slightly falls off he is still better than the majority of your units. Not that it matters since the endgame is so easy you can bring practically anyone and still be fine.

Also Hector is not the best unit. His promotion is the worst of the three lords, since while he does get swords (better than bows), he doesn't gain any move, meaning he's stuck with 5 move for the entirety of the game. Is Hector a good unit, yes, but he is far from the best unit in FE7. You're well aware the general consensus is that Marcus is the best unit in FE7, and at this point we've all become thoroughly used to your staunch disapproval and hatred of this idea, so if I had to pick some other best unit, it'd probably be Sain, since he is the more powerful of the cavalier duo, and that extra speed with Kent doesn't really amount to much.

9 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Sain is better than Marcus, since he has better growths and stats as a Paladin, and Kent is better than Sain, since he's more balanced and doesn't have accuracy issues with axes and throwing weapons. Sain is almost as good as Kent, so I recommend using him if you have the slots for him, but Kent takes priority.

if using Marcus works for you, that's fine, just remember there are better picks for Paladins than him. Even Lowen is better. 

Let's take a look at 20/20 stats. Those are by no means actually going to happen without serious grinding, but I'm lazy and it's an easy endpoint. Before we start, they all have equal con upon promotion, except for Lowen who will have one more con upon promotion.

We'll start with your favorite, Kent.

HP 54.3

Str 22.2

Skl 26

Spd 24

Lck 9.6

Def 16.5

Res 11.5

Kent is mostly balanced, however he has overkill speed. 24 is not necessary in Blazing Sword, and while it is nice to look at, every other cavalier can double just fine without it. His hp is the second highest, strength is second highest, skill and speed are highest, luck is the lowest, his defense is barely the second highest, and his resistance is the second lowest. In conclusion Kent is a terrible unit since he has the worst luck and luck is the best stat a very good unit who is solid from the get-go and grows into a competent unit, although he has the personality of a cardboard box.

Then we'll go to Sain.

HP 51.4

Str 25

Skl 18.3

Spd 22.2

Lck 17.2

Def 15.6

Res 8.6

Sain is by far the most powerful of the four, with stats that lean into a heavy offensive focus. Even so, his defenses aren't that bad, so he should be able to take a few hits while dealing them back out in spades. His HP is the third highest, strength is the highest, skill is second lowest, speed is second highest, luck is second highest, defense is third highest, and Resistance is the lowest. Now, I have found that while Kent would most certainly be the better unit in a game that is better optimized, Sain's stats are much more suited for the kind of game that FE7 is. His speed is high enough that he has no problems doubling, his defense is high enough that nothing will really dent him, and though you bash his skill by saying he has accuracy problems, his high luck stat mitigates this quite well, while also ensuring he won't be prone to criticals and the like.

Next we look at Lowen

HP 58.3

Str 19.1

Skl 17.1

Spd 19.1

Lck 21.5

Def 23.8

Res 12.1

I'm going to outright say that Lowen is the worst of the four cavaliers. This doesn't really mean much since he is still a cavalier, and a good unit in his own right, but for the sake of comparison we're going with it. His HP, Luck, and Defense are the highest of the four, Strength and Skill are the lowest, Speed third highest and Resistance is second highest. He'll barely take any meaningful damage, but he'll occasionally struggle dealing it back out. At the end of the day, he is a tank on a horse, and pretty useful at what he does. 

And lastly, Marcus

HP 43.35

Str 20.7

Skl 24.5

Spd 15.75

Lck 13.7

Def 12.85

Res 14.65

You take a look at Marcus's final stat spread, and you think "That's it?", but remember, that's in comparison to everyone else's 20/20 stats. A more apt comparison would be to 20/10, but I'm only just realizing that now and I'm not going back to re-write my entire post and get those stats again, so here we are. HP lowest, Str third, skl second, speed last, luck third, def last, resistance first. Marcus is a magical wall, who can easily double any mage since they start to carry heavier tomes. He will consistently hit and deal great damage. He can take plenty of damage and dish it back out.

So if we look at these stats, we can see that yes, a trained Sain, Kent, or sometimes Lowen will indeed beat Marcus, but notice that word, "trained". Marcus is immediately good, and immediately usable. Sain, Kent, and especially Lowen rely on their good growths to reach the heights that they do, and at this point we should all know that Bases are much better than Growths. 

[DiogoJorge]

8 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

Except for the fact that Blazing Sword's early and midgame are the hardest parts of the game, and the endgame is piss-easy due to lower-level enemy spam as opposed to higher level enemies. Marcus is great early game, with reliable ORKO's being dished out left and right. His amazing bases carry him the whole game. Midgame, he is still viable due to decent growths and his mount, and endgame he is only slightly below your other units. Cavaliers and Paladins are the best units in all of GBA Fire Emblem, so even if he slightly falls off he is still better than the majority of your units. Not that it matters since the endgame is so easy you can bring practically anyone and still be fine.

Also Hector is not the best unit. His promotion is the worst of the three lords, since while he does get swords (better than bows), he doesn't gain any move, meaning he's stuck with 5 move for the entirety of the game. Is Hector a good unit, yes, but he is far from the best unit in FE7. You're well aware the general consensus is that Marcus is the best unit in FE7, and at this point we've all become thoroughly used to your staunch disapproval and hatred of this idea, so if I had to pick some other best unit, it'd probably be Sain, since he is the more powerful of the cavalier duo, and that extra speed with Kent doesn't really amount to much.

Let's take a look at 20/20 stats. Those are by no means actually going to happen without serious grinding, but I'm lazy and it's an easy endpoint. Before we start, they all have equal con upon promotion, except for Lowen who will have one more con upon promotion.

We'll start with your favorite, Kent.

HP 54.3

Str 22.2

Skl 26

Spd 24

Lck 9.6

Def 16.5

Res 11.5

Kent is mostly balanced, however he has overkill speed. 24 is not necessary in Blazing Sword, and while it is nice to look at, every other cavalier can double just fine without it. His hp is the second highest, strength is second highest, skill and speed are highest, luck is the lowest, his defense is barely the second highest, and his resistance is the second lowest. In conclusion Kent is a terrible unit since he has the worst luck and luck is the best stat a very good unit who is solid from the get-go and grows into a competent unit, although he has the personality of a cardboard box.

Then we'll go to Sain.

HP 51.4

Str 25

Skl 18.3

Spd 22.2

Lck 17.2

Def 15.6

Res 8.6

Sain is by far the most powerful of the four, with stats that lean into a heavy offensive focus. Even so, his defenses aren't that bad, so he should be able to take a few hits while dealing them back out in spades. His HP is the third highest, strength is the highest, skill is second lowest, speed is second highest, luck is second highest, defense is third highest, and Resistance is the lowest. Now, I have found that while Kent would most certainly be the better unit in a game that is better optimized, Sain's stats are much more suited for the kind of game that FE7 is. His speed is high enough that he has no problems doubling, his defense is high enough that nothing will really dent him, and though you bash his skill by saying he has accuracy problems, his high luck stat mitigates this quite well, while also ensuring he won't be prone to criticals and the like.

Next we look at Lowen

HP 58.3

Str 19.1

Skl 17.1

Spd 19.1

Lck 21.5

Def 23.8

Res 12.1

I'm going to outright say that Lowen is the worst of the four cavaliers. This doesn't really mean much since he is still a cavalier, and a good unit in his own right, but for the sake of comparison we're going with it. His HP, Luck, and Defense are the highest of the four, Strength and Skill are the lowest, Speed third highest and Resistance is second highest. He'll barely take any meaningful damage, but he'll occasionally struggle dealing it back out. At the end of the day, he is a tank on a horse, and pretty useful at what he does. 

And lastly, Marcus

HP 43.35

Str 20.7

Skl 24.5

Spd 15.75

Lck 13.7

Def 12.85

Res 14.65

You take a look at Marcus's final stat spread, and you think "That's it?", but remember, that's in comparison to everyone else's 20/20 stats. A more apt comparison would be to 20/10, but I'm only just realizing that now and I'm not going back to re-write my entire post and get those stats again, so here we are. HP lowest, Str third, skl second, speed last, luck third, def last, resistance first. Marcus is a magical wall, who can easily double any mage since they start to carry heavier tomes. He will consistently hit and deal great damage. He can take plenty of damage and dish it back out.

So if we look at these stats, we can see that yes, a trained Sain, Kent, or sometimes Lowen will indeed beat Marcus, but notice that word, "trained". Marcus is immediately good, and immediately usable. Sain, Kent, and especially Lowen rely on their good growths to reach the heights that they do, and at this point we should all know that Bases are much better than Growths. 

I've already seen his averages and growths many times over and I have yet to be impressed.

The problem with those averages is that Marcus isn't reaching lv 10 let alone 20. And even if he did, Kent and Sain would be surpassing him as far as lv 1 Paladins due to better DEF, HP and SPD against whatever he was by lv 8. The more SPD the better, it guarantees that Kent will double almost everything, so I welcome it.

Sain is stronger you mean, not best unit. STR is all he has over Kent. Kent doesn't care about criticals, since criticals are rarely an issue in Blazing Sword. It hurts his dodgetanking ability to have less LUK, but he makes up for it somewhat by having better SPD.

Kent is a honourable knight, his personality is fine as it is. Sain on the other hand is one of those lecherous types, and I usually don't like them as much.

Edited October 14, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[squid4001]

16 hours ago, Critical Sniper said:

Well since you never explicitly show me or tell me of his stats I must wonder.

It actually is less might than the Killing edge and the same might as a steel sword

I'll tell you guy's stats because I use wii u vc. 

str:19

Skill:27

Spd:30

Luck:18

Def:19

Res:16

move, con, and aid are unchanged

and what I meant by the wo dao can be used is that it's very similar to the killing edge (boots crit by 5 more than the killing edge) and It's free! although Lyn and the Luther 2 sword masters can also use the wo dao since the wo dao is locked to Lyn lords, sword masters, and mrymidons ( I may be wrong about the Lyn part)

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, squid4001 said:

and what I meant by the wo dao can be used is that it's very similar to the killing edge (boots crit by 5 more than the killing edge) and It's free! although Lyn and the Luther 2 sword masters can also use the wo dao since the wo dao is locked to Lyn lords, sword masters, and mrymidons ( I may be wrong about the Lyn part)

The problem with that is that one of the Wo Daos requires passing up on a better unit and the better weapon he carries, and the other requires actively using one of the worst units in the game, in addition to being Hector exclusive.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[Hanes]

1 hour ago, squid4001 said:

I'll tell you guy's stats because I use wii u vc. 

str:19

Skill:27

Spd:30

Luck:18

Def:19

Res:16

19 strength? wow, what level is he?

[Just call me AL]

8 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

The problem with those averages is that Marcus isn't reaching lv 10 let alone 20. 

Easier than you think, considering how much EXP bosses give. Especially promoted ones, which are literally guaranteed levels.

8 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

And even if he did, Kent and Sain would be surpassing him as far as lv 1 Paladins due to better DEF, HP and SPD against whatever he was by lv 8. The more SPD the better, it guarantees that Kent will double almost everything, so I welcome it.

>Ignoring the fact that Marcus comes promoted already whereas Sain and Kent don't.

8 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Sain is stronger you mean, not best unit. STR is all he has over Kent.

You're forgetting about how much of an impact said advantage makes. Need I remind you that an 11/01 Sain has Marcus' base Str on average whereas Kent doesn't? Combine that with the early Knight's Crest, and it's no wonder why some tier lists assuming LHM is played through places Sain directly below Marcus.

8 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Kent doesn't care about criticals, since criticals are rarely an issue in Blazing Sword. It hurts his dodgetanking ability to have less LUK, but he makes up for it somewhat by having better SPD.

Lol @ acting like having some dodgetanking ability is important for those who don't need it to function. Not to mention, Kent's lower Lck means he's more vulnerable against SMs, which he often can't double anyways.

[squid4001]

3 hours ago, Critical Sniper said:

19 strength? wow, what level is he?

20/20.

(I don't care about rank/ ltc so I loaded him up with killing edges as a sword master.)

 

[Hanes]

2 minutes ago, squid4001 said:

20/20.

(I don't care about rank/ ltc so I loaded him up with killing edges as a sword master.)

 

Oh really? 20/20 I can't believe this... kid anyone with 20/20 stats is good but even then he is still one more point blessed in strength, and if we're going to allow arena grinding to determine characters then fine.

REBECCA IS A GOOD UNIT BECAUSE HER 20/20 STATS ALMOST CAP AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER UNIT DOES.

BARTRE IS GOOD BECAUSE HE CAN CAP SPEED WAY BETTER THAN DORCAS

LUCIUS IS GOOD BECAUSE OF HIS HIG MAG GROWTH WHICH ALMOST DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING TO THE END AHAHA JUST KIDDING HE IS VERY GOOD.

 

If you're not even going to try to put up a decent fight then I feel like I'm beating up a 2 year old niece which might actually be the case, but well since you seem somewhat new to the FE community I will quickly explain to you how units are ranked.

Units are ranked in how they affect the ranks system when being used wether they require lots of turns of babying or lots of expensive weapons if a units use requires you to lower a rank then they are not good because their own use until they become effective hampers you, additionally, if another unit can do the same or better things as the previous unit without hampering your ranks as much or at all then that unit is better, units like Isadora, Karel, Raven and more come to mind when talking about high speed units who perform better than him for either having more mov, coming in an already usable state or having more strength with no investment. So if we're going to rank units by their 20/20 stats only we might as well call anyone a good unit.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, squid4001 said:

20/20.

(I don't care about rank/ ltc so I loaded him up with killing edges as a sword master.)

 

You do realize 20/20 stats are irrelevant for discussions, do you?

[squid4001]

15 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

You do realize 20/20 stats are irrelevant for discussions, do you?

you completely ignored that for this other post.

23 hours ago, DarthR0xas said:

 

Let's take a look at 20/20 stats.

so?

[DarthR0xas]

1 minute ago, squid4001 said:

you completely ignored that for this other post.

so?

Yeah, should've done 20/10 stats for the three cavs, and 15 for Marcus. Those are more accurate, whoops on my part.

[DiogoJorge]

17 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

Easier than you think, considering how much EXP bosses give. Especially promoted ones, which are literally guaranteed levels.

>Ignoring the fact that Marcus comes promoted already whereas Sain and Kent don't.

You're forgetting about how much of an impact said advantage makes. Need I remind you that an 11/01 Sain has Marcus' base Str on average whereas Kent doesn't? Combine that with the early Knight's Crest, and it's no wonder why some tier lists assuming LHM is played through places Sain directly below Marcus.

Lol @ acting like having some dodgetanking ability is important for those who don't need it to function. Not to mention, Kent's lower Lck means he's more vulnerable against SMs, which he often can't double anyways.

Waste of experience, by the time of Chapter 20, he's just yesterday's leftovers and benched. At that point Kent already does his job just as well, while having good growths and better experience gain. He will never see the light of day when he reaches lv 10. He usually reaches lv 8 by then.

>ignoring the fact that Kent and Sain not being promoted means more stats gains from promoting and faster level ups, which another thing they have over Marcus. That's not a disadvantage, that's a virtue in Sain's and Kent's favor.

That's not an advantage. Kent doesn't need that much STR to begin with. Sain is slightly inferior to Kent due to slightly worse defensive stats, if you want a tank that matches Marcus and surpasses him, Kent is the one to use.

It's important, since it means less healing and thus one can afford to be in the front for longer, with more dodging, Kent can afford to attack more axefighters for much longer. There aren't many Swordmasters to begin with, Kent can't double them, but neither can Marcus or Sain, specially Marcus who is likely to be doubled instead.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[Shadow Mir]

10 hours ago, squid4001 said:

you completely ignored that for this other post.

so?

Because he wound up admitting he messed up later.

23 minutes ago, DiogoJorge said:

It's important, since it means less healing and thus one can afford to be in the front for longer, with more dodging, Kent can afford to attack more axefighters for much longer. There aren't many Swordmasters to begin with, Kent can't double them, but neither can Marcus or Sain, specially Marcus who is likely to be doubled instead.  

Axefighters? Those losers that pretty much scream "free exp" for any sword user? Really now? Try harder.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[DiogoJorge]

49 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because he wound up admitting he messed up later.

Axefighters? Those losers that pretty much scream "free exp" for any sword user? Really now? Try harder.

 

Those axefighters if they hit, they hit hard. They are easy to kill, but they also hurt more in return. Try harder yourself.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

 

Those axefighters if they hit, they hit hard. They are easy to kill, but they also hurt more in return. Try harder yourself.

Because it's not like they have low skill and inaccurate weapons, right? Oh wait, that is the case. They're not really worth considering a threat. Luna Druids, on the other hand, THOSE are a threat, and a massive one at that.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[DiogoJorge]

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because it's not like they have low skill and inaccurate weapons, right? Oh wait, that is the case. They're not really worth considering a threat. Luna Druids, on the other hand, THOSE are a threat, and a massive one at that.

And that's precisely why Kent or Lyn should be the ones handling them.

There's  only a few of those and one of them isn't even a druid, and the other one can be attacked with Longbows first then finished off with a strong weapon. They are hardly a massive threat, a moderate threat, nowhere close to massive.

Edited October 15, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[Shadow Mir]

19 minutes ago, DiogoJorge said:

And that's precisely why Kent or Lyn should be the ones handling them.

There's  only a few of those and one of them isn't even a druid, and the other one can be attacked with Longbows first then finished off with a strong weapon. They are hardly a massive threat, a moderate threat, nowhere close to massive.

You do realize that it's not like you need to be a speed demon to practically neutralize fighters, don't you? They have crap skill, and their weapons have garbo accuracy. Do the math. They're fodder for just about any sword user.

They're much more of a threat than axefighters, which are as fodder as fodder gets, that's for damn sure. Also, longbows are a trash weapon.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Shadow Mir

[Just call me AL]

17 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Waste of experience

Sigh... This again? I keep telling you, you waste more EXP giving a boss kill to an unpromoted unit than a promoted one. Especially since 1, a single unit can't gain more than 100 EXP per kill, and 2, an unpromoted unit has a far easier time gaining EXP. Why should I give 100 EXP to a unit that can gain that much from killing 3-4 random enemies, and how is that better than giving roughly 50 EXP to a unit that would otherwise gain that much EXP from killing 10 random enemies? The counter-intuitiveness is practically self-explanatory there.

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by the time of Chapter 20, he's just yesterday's leftovers and benched. At that point Kent already does his job just as well, while having good growths and better experience gain. He will never see the light of day when he reaches lv 10. He usually reaches lv 8 by then.

This is more upon your luck with the RNG than Marcus'usefulness as a unit. Besides, 3 Cavaliers > 2 Cavaliers > 1 Cavalier.

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>ignoring the fact that Kent and Sain not being promoted means more stats gains from promoting and faster level ups, which another thing they have over Marcus. That's not a disadvantage, that's a virtue in Sain's and Kent's favor.

Except for this fact: Stats built in > Stats gained by level up. The fact that Marcus doesn't need stats from promotion, as well as the stats he can gain from leveling up are good enough to help him deal with most enemies in the game, speaks positive volumes about his worth.

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That's not an advantage. Kent doesn't need that much STR to begin with. Sain is slightly inferior to Kent due to slightly worse defensive stats, if you want a tank that matches Marcus and surpasses him, Kent is the one to use.

You are clearly underestimating how much of a benefit a noticeable Str gap is. I kid you not when I say there's enemies that Sain can ORKO that Kent can't.

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It's important, since it means less healing and thus one can afford to be in the front for longer, with more dodging, Kent can afford to attack more axefighters for much longer. 

This is one of the strongest enemy axe users in Charge 25 HHM.

35 Atk, 94 Hit, 6 Crit, 51 Hp, 11 Def, 6 Res, 24 Avo, 12 AS

And this is how Sain would likely be at then.

36 HP, 20 Str, 11 Skl, 14 Spd, 10 Lck, 11 Def, 4 Res

That basically amounts to 48 AVO for Sain with WTA factored in, but before terrain is considered. Giving that Warrior 46 Hit, or 42.78 True Hit. With forest tiles, that's 26 hit. This is a big threat to Sain, how? Especially since Kent has about 47 AVO against the same Warrior while at Sain's level? 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Just call me AL

[DiogoJorge]

4 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

Sigh... This again? I keep telling you, you waste more EXP giving a boss kill to an unpromoted unit than a promoted one. Especially since 1, a single unit can't gain more than 100 EXP per kill, and 2, an unpromoted unit has a far easier time gaining EXP. Why should I give 100 EXP to a unit that can gain that much from killing 3-4 random enemies, and how is that better than giving roughly 50 EXP to a unit that would otherwise gain that much EXP from killing 10 random enemies? The counter-intuitiveness is practically self-explanatory there.

This is more upon your luck with the RNG than Marcus'usefulness as a unit. Besides, 3 Cavaliers > 2 Cavaliers > 1 Cavalier.

Except for this fact: Stats built in > Stats gained by level up. The fact that Marcus doesn't need stats from promotion, as well as the stats he can gain from leveling up are good enough to help him deal with most enemies in the game, speaks positive volumes about his worth.

You are clearly underestimating how much of a benefit a noticeable Str gap is. I kid you not when I say there's enemies that Sain can ORKO that Kent can't.

This is one of the strongest enemy axe users in Charge 25 HHM.

35 Atk, 94 Hit, 6 Crit, 51 Hp, 11 Def, 6 Res, 24 Avo, 12 AS

And this is how Sain would likely be at then.

36 HP, 20 Str, 11 Skl, 14 Spd, 10 Lck, 11 Def, 4 Res

That basically amounts to 48 AVO for Sain with WTA factored in, but before terrain is considered. Giving that Warrior 46 Hit, or 42.78 True Hit. With forest tiles, that's 26 hit. This is a big threat to Sain, how? Especially since Kent has about 47 AVO against the same Warrior while at Sain's level? 

Not really, since pretty much any unpromoted has better growths than Marcus. So they make better use of it. Would you rather give 100 xp to a unit that grows much more and has better stats by midgame or 50 xp to a unit with decent stats that become mostly mediocre for rest of the game? 

They don't speak anything of the sort to me. His averages are irksome to look at.

If a unit has more stats than Marcus by leveling up, you can be sure I will be using that one over Marcus. 

Maybe Sain can, but Kent doesn't need to to begin with, since he tanks more and is better at helping softening enemies as well, which he wants to do as a Paladin so that others get some experience. Mind you, discussing which is better is virtually pointless, since they are about equal, with Kent having a slight lead over Sain in defensive stats and Sain having a slight lead in offensive stats. So use whichever works best for you, I usually have Kent be the main Paladin while Sain follows as the secondary one.

It's not a big threat if he uses swords, wich is what I said before. Kent is preferable to use due to better DEF,SPD and HP and also because he's the most likely to promote first. Also, by chapter 25, Kent or Sain would be lv 4-5 Paladins, not lv 1. 

And as I said before, use Marcus if you really have to, whatever works for you. He certainly doesn't work for me beyond the few chapters where he's necessary.

Edited October 16, 2018 by DiogoJorge