Jump to content

How canonically strong are these characters? - Day 13 (Tailtiu, Ninian, Morgan)


Recommended Posts

On gamefaqs there recently was a short lived series of topics called ''The quest for a canonical tier list''. In these topics posters could rate how strong a Fire Emblem character would be when based not on their stats, but purely on the story and lore of the series.

I think the concept is interesting enough to repeat here. After all characters being statistically strong or canonically strong are often two entirely different things in this series. Characters like Pent or Tibarn probably really are as strong as their stats suggest but other times the strongest fighter in a nation turned out to be a statistical wimp. 

So my plan is to post 3 different characters every day and see how strong the forums thinks these characters are. To cover as wide a net as possible the three characters will each reflect a different era of the series, one will be a character from the Kaga era, then one from the Gameboy/console games, and the last one will be from the 3ds era. The characters would be ranked by a number ranging from 1 till 10. I made a helpful ranking list to suggest what every score should imply. 

Spoiler

 

10 - legendary Heroes: These guys are the strongest people in their respective continents with almost godlike powers. Think final bosses, the previous legendary warriors or those playable characters the lore deems to be far above everyone else.  

9 - Champions: These fighters are so powerful that they could practically turn the tide of battle on their own. While extremely powerful and capable of dominating most foes they would still find their match in the main villain, mayor side villains or godlike individuals. 

8 - Powerhouses: The elites of any army. While not able to win battles on their own they are among the best fighters an army has to offer and will always significantly affect the battle. 

7 - Skilled: Very skilled individuals who can not only hold their own in combat but contribute meaningfully to every battle they participate in.

6 - Average: Characters of average skill who can hold their own in combat but not much more. 

5 - Below average: Characters who just aren't very good fighters. They aren't exactly a burden but are unlikely to defeat strong opponents in single combat.

4 - Weaklings: Bad fighters who's performance on the battle field would rarely impress. Likely to be a burden.

3/2 - Mooks: Characters who are unlikely to be much stronger than the basic enemy soldiers.

1 - Joke character: The absolute weakest characters on any continent. These characters are suited only for the bench. 

 

To start us off simply and to test the waters a bit the first characters to be ranked are the most famous lords among their respective era's. Marth, Roy and Lucina. 

How strong would you say these three characters are supposed to be in the lore? I'll just start us off. 

Marth: 7.5/10

Marth is likely to be a solid fighter but not an outright powerhouse. While often praised he's notably not named as an incredibly fierce warrior, instead always being praised for his kindness and leadership skills. He's the chosen one because he can wield a special sword and not because he's some battle god. That said he's also never depicted as a weak fighter either, and any opponent who dismisses him as a kid is frequently treated as being very wrong. Marth is heavily suggested, if not outright stated to have defeated Medeus so he surely must have had a good amount of skill to face him in combat. 

Roy: 5/10

Roy might be our boy but a good fighter he is not. There is very little to suggest Roy is particularly powerful. He's the youngest lord by far, a skinny 15 year old boy and he's depicted as a brains over brawns type of guy. His shaky status as a unit might is probably not an accident but a way to reflect Roy's shaky canonically strength. Perhaps he will have grown into a solid 7 at the end of the game but for most of his adventure Roy is probably a wimp. 

Lucina: 8/10

Lucina isn't the oldest lord but she might be the most experienced of the bunch. She spend most of her life fighting a zombie apocalypse and a huge Dragon god, and this is reflected in her abilities. When she first appears in the story she's already the equal of Chrom who's a veteran commander at that point and she's powerful enough to defeat Lonqu, the strongest fighter Basillio had to offer. In the DLC she even gets to defeat Grima himself. Overall I think its safe to say that Lucina is a very powerful individual. 

 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 195
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Marth: Marth would be closer to a 6/10 for me. Thing is that he's often noted as having to call upon others, especially in the remakes. It's not that Marth can't fight whatsoever, it's that he wouldn't have beaten most of these threats on his own, such as Gharnef or Hardin in particular. He can still lead a grand command, it's that he himself wouldn't be charging in on his own. Sure, against dragons he's one of the most reliable powerhouses but outside of that..... I don't see him as a one-man army. Not more than a 7/10.

Roy: I'd honestly consider him closer to a 4/10 in the course of the main game. His own weakness in combat is something that's a recurring theme in story and gameplay (I know, get that out of here). It's one of the things he can't quite let go if even as his plans ensure that Roy's Boys fight another day. Once he promotes he's certainly stronger, but I'd say overall closer to a 6/10.

Lucina: Lucina's probably the rating I'd say we agree the most on. In combat terms she's quite even edge on Chrom who has shown his ability up to this point, has proven form as a combatant against the risen and Grima across media and seals Grima in Future Past. Certainly at least 7/10, 8/10 at peak. (Am I the only one who wanted the spin-dash as one of her and Chrom's attacks/Final Smashes in Smash?)

I could start rating the others as well, but that'd be getting ahead of things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

On gamefaqs there recently was a short lived series of topics called ''The quest for a canonical tier list''. In these topics posters could rate how strong a Fire Emblem character would be when based not on their stats, but purely on the story and lore of the series.

I think the concept is interesting enough to repeat here. After all characters being statistically strong or canonically strong are often two entirely different things in this series. Characters like Pent or Tibarn probably really are as strong as their stats suggest but other times the strongest fighter in a nation turned out to be a statistical wimp. 

So my plan is to post 3 different characters every day and see how strong the forums thinks these characters are. To cover as wide a net as possible the three characters will each reflect a different era of the series, one will be a character from the Kaga era, then one from the Gameboy/console games, and the last one will be from the 3ds era. The characters would be ranked by a number ranging from 1 till 10. I made a helpful ranking list to suggest what every score should imply. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

10 - legendary Heroes: These guys are the strongest people in their respective continents with almost godlike powers. Think final bosses, the previous legendary warriors or those playable characters the lore deems to be far above everyone else.  

9 - Champions: These fighters are so powerful that they could practically turn the tide of battle on their own. While extremely powerful and capable of dominating most foes they would still find their match in the main villain, mayor side villains or godlike individuals. 

8 - Powerhouses: The elites of any army. While not able to win battles on their own they are among the best fighters an army has to offer and will always significantly affect the battle. 

7 - Skilled: Very skilled individuals who can not only hold their own in combat but contribute meaningfully to every battle they participate in.

6 - Average: Characters of average skill who can hold their own in combat but not much more. 

5 - Below average: Characters who just aren't very good fighters. They aren't exactly a burden but are unlikely to defeat strong opponents in single combat.

4 - Weaklings: Bad fighters who's performance on the battle field would rarely impress. Likely to be a burden.

3/2 - Mooks: Characters who are unlikely to be much stronger than the basic enemy soldiers.

1 - Joke character: The absolute weakest characters on any continent. These characters are suited only for the bench. 

 

To start us off simply and to test the waters a bit the first characters to be ranked are the most famous lords among their respective era's. Marth, Roy and Lucina. 

How strong would you say these three characters are supposed to be in the lore? I'll just start us off. 

Marth: 7.5/10

Marth is likely to be a solid fighter but not an outright powerhouse. While often praised he's notably not named as an incredibly fierce warrior, instead always being praised for his kindness and leadership skills. He's the chosen one because he can wield a special sword and not because he's some battle god. That said he's also never depicted as a weak fighter either, and any opponent who dismisses him as a kid is frequently treated as being very wrong. Marth is heavily suggested, if not outright stated to have defeated Medeus so he surely must have had a good amount of skill to face him in combat. 

Roy: 5/10

Roy might be our boy but a good fighter he is not. There is very little to suggest Roy is particularly powerful. He's the youngest lord by far, a skinny 15 year old boy and he's depicted as a brains over brawns type of guy. His shaky status as a unit might is probably not an accident but a way to reflect Roy's shaky canonically strength. Perhaps he will have grown into a solid 7 at the end of the game but for most of his adventure Roy is probably a wimp. 

Lucina: 8/10

Lucina isn't the oldest lord but she might be the most experienced of the bunch. She spend most of her life fighting a zombie apocalypse and a huge Dragon god, and this is reflected in her abilities. When she first appears in the story she's already the equal of Chrom who's a veteran commander at that point and she's powerful enough to defeat Lonqu, the strongest fighter Basillio had to offer. In the DLC she even gets to defeat Grima himself. Overall I think its safe to say that Lucina is a very powerful individual. 

 

Marth:

Also, you should also consider the power of the Binding Shield. Furthermore, Falchion is confirmed to be similar to Holy Weapons, but both Valentian Revelations, and Awakening reveals that Falchion's full power has might equal to that of Naga herself. So you would consider that Falchion story-wise would be like the Book of Naga levels of buff.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to focus on how powerful each character is relative to another in the past when I used to extensively debate Naruto matchups. I can't say much about Marth and Lucina due to not playing their games. 

I think I can agree with rating Roy as a 5. Lilina made fun of Roy's physique and also wasn't too confident in his skill so he's probably below average compared to other soldiers in the army. 

Spoiler

Roy:
“So this is the Durandal… It’s bigger than I thought. I don’t think many of us are going to be able to swing it.”

Lilina:
“But history has it that Roland was a small man. I think it’s the person’s skill that determines whether he can use it or not.”

Roy:
“Then if I improved my swordsmanship, I would be able to use it as well?”

Lilina:
“Well…maybe.”

Roy:
“Maybe? Come on…at least say ‘probably.'”

Lilina:
“Hahaha…”

 

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

So my plan is to post 3 different characters every day and see how strong the forums thinks these characters are. To cover as wide a net as possible the three characters will each reflect a different era of the series, one will be a character from the Kaga era, then one from the Gameboy/console games, and the last one will be from the 3ds era. The characters would be ranked by a number ranging from 1 till 10. I made a helpful ranking list to suggest what every score should imply. 

 

Why would you split them up like that? Each day, three characters from the same continent makes more sense as it is easier to compare characters within the same universe than multiverse comparisons. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I better see Ike and Camus being on the same level. If not, I'm gonna bring down threads to talk about it.

Marth on his own would be a 7.5. Not the strongest, but certainly strong on his own regard. 

With the Binding Shield or Falchion or both, he's definitely a 10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marth: 7/10

Marth has the courage and the desire to actually became a strong fighter; and he did; becoming a Mini Version of his Brother's Ancestor (A character that would be 9/10 at least BTW).

Roy: 5/10

Strong enough to don't be problematic; but he's a brain person; he don't being that strong is canon.

Lucina: 7.5/10

A more experienced version of Marth's capabilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Marth has the courage and the desire to actually became a strong fighter; and he did; becoming a Mini Version of his Brother's Ancestor (A character that would be 9/10 at least BTW).

2

Oh no, Anri is an automatic 10. He was a peasant, no real money and resources to be able to make the journey but his own wit and grit, and he went through the desert of death, the magma filled area that is littered with fire dragons, and then a frigid icy mountain with ice dragons, then went straight back all the way to Medeus and beat him singlehandedly despite how Medeus had the power to literally wipe out an entire army singlehandedly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marth - 5/10. I can't stress enough how helpful a shield can be in 1v1 combat, but Marth seems to almost totally ditch the shield after Mystery of the Emblem for SNES. We had better assume he's going in no shield which appears to be the case for almost every interpretation of the character in the 21st century.Marth's strengths, both in characterization and the skills they give him in the 3DS games stress how he inspires others to be better. It's no secret he loathes fighting as well. His low level cap of 30 also tells me that the kid's not meant to have ultimate potential - though I imagine for a "canonical tier list" we're supposed to ignore gameplay conventions wherever possible. Plus he's packing the weakest Lord Prf in the series.

Roy - 4.5 out of 10. Carried by the team is an understatement. It's honestly cruel that the kid has to go through all this when nobody else will stand up for the Lycian league. The Binding Blade is one of the most incredible legendary weapons in the series, however. It's also exactly light enough for the kid to wield with no speed penalty. But I imagine Roy would go full on shonen protagonist with that in his possession, leading him to make brash, stupid mistakes where he can be disarmed or overpowered. Like I said, he's a kid in over his head. I know we make jokes about the fifteen year old sex god mass murderer, but he more than any Lord needs other people to keep him in line if he's going to be the warlord we imagine of him.

Lucina - 7.5 out of 10. This one is hard to rank without relying on gameplay conventions that may or may not be considered canon. Like for instance how effective really is the Falchion's self healing? Is it a gradual boon or a burst of healing energy that can immediately close a wound in moments? And if you lose a turn doing that, how long do you need to "focus" in order to make it happen? Also how canonical is Aether? We see her perform the move in a cutscene but is it as effective as the skill is with the combined Luna and Sol effects? Regardless Lucina really is a legend of her time even if nobody knows her name. She can't beat Grima by herself and the world really did end when she was the last line of defense, so she's certainly not overpowered. Heck, she's not even promoted when you meet her. She's got a shield and that's huge. But she also doesn't have feet so her sense of balance comes into question. Gonna be noncommital with her rating.

Edited by Glennstavos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really like the idea of 'canon strength' & 'canon match-ups'. I already did Ike vs Marth, A battle-royale of the Swordmasters of Tellius, and the Greil Mercenaries VS Dawn Brigade.

 

Roy should be weaker than Marth.

But I am not should whether Marth > Lucina or vice-versa. I always assumed that Marth was stronger but I don't have enough knowledge of Lucina to be certain. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Marth - 6/10. I can't stress enough how helpful a shield can be in 1v1 combat, but Marth seems to almost totally ditch the shield after Mystery of the Emblem for SNES. We had better assume he's going in no shield which appears to be the case for almost every interpretation of the character in the 21st century.Marth's strengths, both in characterization and the skills they give him in the 3DS games stress how he inspires others to be better. It's no secret he loathes fighting as well. His low level cap of 30 also tells me that the kid's not meant to have ultimate potential - though I imagine for a "canonical tier list" we're supposed to ignore gameplay conventions wherever possible. 

2

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a dislike for fighting by no means a case of being incapable of training. He's a king, and he is well aware of how aware can appear at any point. So just cause it's a time for peace doesn't mean that Marth would never be prepared for another war and thus would obviously keep up with training. Hating to fight doesn't mean ill-prepared for one. Marth isn't like Gohan in this case. 

6 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Lucina - 7.5 out of 10. This one is hard to rank without relying on gameplay conventions that may or may not be considered canon. Like for instance how effective really is the Falchion's self healing? Is it a gradual boon or a burst of healing energy that can immediately close a wound in moments? And if you lose a turn doing that, how long do you need to "focus" in order to make it happen? Also how canonical is Aether? We see her perform the move in a cutscene but is it as effective as the skill is with the combined Luna and Sol effects? Regardless Lucina really is a legend of her time even if nobody knows her name. She can't beat Grima by herself and the world really did end when she was the last line of defense, so she's certainly not overpowered. Heck, she's not even promoted when you meet her. She's got a shield and that's huge. But she also doesn't have feet so her sense of balance comes into question. Gonna be noncommital with her rating.

1

That's not a matter of power itself, though. Literally, nothing but a full awakened Falchion can actually defeat Grima. Lucina's Falchion can at best hurt Grima with a partial Awakening, but without it, she's never going to beat Grima. Grima would also be literally immune to every other form of weapon too. 

Also, in regards to Aether, how canonical are we to actually believe that Ike's case works in healing too? He flips backwards and heals? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

Why would you split them up like that? Each day, three characters from the same continent makes more sense as it is easier to compare characters within the same universe than multiverse comparisons. 

There are a couple of reasons for it.

Firstly is that no topic lasts forever. This topic will eventually run out of steam. Topics made by people far more suited to managing long term topics will eventually run out of steam as well. The Fire Emblem casts are all very large. If I started things chronologically and posted each Archanean until the continent runs out of characters then the topic will have likely lost steam before I get to Gaiden. Posting a similar topic at each sub forum would be possible but it would take a lot more work. 

Comparing Ogma with Navvare is indeed easier and its interesting in its own right. But its also interesting to see how Ogma would compare to his fellow Ogma's or whether Nergal manages to score higher than Gharnef. 

I think this way also offers me a lot more freedom. I don't need to post characters I don't care about and can ask about any character that randomly pops into my mind. I can even do special theme days like a Gharnef showdown or a selection consisting purely of Jagen's.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a dislike for fighting by no means a case of being incapable of training. He's a king, and he is well aware of how aware can appear at any point. So just cause it's a time for peace doesn't mean that Marth would never be prepared for another war and thus would obviously keep up with training. Hating to fight doesn't mean ill-prepared for one. Marth isn't like Gohan in this case. 

 

It means a lack of volitional training. Regular practice makes the difference in a fight. And I'm not convinced Marth makes time for that like most people in his army or the other Lords. I don't know what a Gohan is but experience means more than the weapon you're wielding. Btw as I recall the Falchion is just a infinite durability silver sword in Shadow dragon with a minor focus healing property. Major meh. Bringing him down to a 5.

Quote

Also, in regards to Aether, how canonical are we to actually believe that Ike's case works in healing too? He flips backwards and heals? 

The coming down part is what heals. The flip backward is the luna hit if they're still alive.

Edited by Glennstavos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

It means a lack of volitional training. Regular practice makes the difference in a fight. And I'm not convinced Marth makes time for that like most people in his army or the other Lords. I don't know what a Gohan is but experience means more than the weapon you're wielding. Btw as I recall the Falchion is just a infinite durability silver sword in Shadow dragon with a minor focus healing property. Major meh. Bringing him down to a 5.

1

Confirmation of established lore: Kaga stated that Falchion works the same way as Holy Weapons in Genealogy. Both Valentian Revelations and Naga herself stated that Falchion's full might would give the user power rivaling Naga herself. So story-wise, Falchion is just like the Book of Naga from Genealogy. If lore translated into gameplay more properly, Marth would basically be getting a +80 point buff.

ANd that's not even considering the power of the Binding Shield and it's 5 Gemstones. You are pretty much a literal demi-god at that point. 

You should look through the lore a bit more.

If Marth wasn't someone that would take time to keep up with training, he would have died long ago. Hell, Marth was a skinny boy with no armor on him at age 14, took on several armed soldiers who were obviously trained for combat, and Marth STILL won. That shows that Marth isn't someone that actually skimps out on training.

7 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

The coming down part is what heals. The flip backward is the luna hit if they're still alive.

Right. How does that heal HP? It just does. The story in TearRing Saga about how Sol works is that you "steal the opponent's qi" to recover your own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lack of love for battle doesn't necessarily imply that someone is weaker. But It would be easy to form the impression that the battle loving Hector or Ike are stronger than the softer Marth. That doesn't need so say anything. Its worth pointing out that Eliwood has won most sparring matches with Hector despite taking much more after Marth. But it is more likely that those who enjoy battle are stronger than the ones that don't. 

Another thing to consider is that Marth has also less time to train. He's a ruler by the time of new mystery while Ike has much more free time to spend training, something made easier by it also being his passion. 

25 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also, in regards to Aether, how canonical are we to actually believe that Ike's case works in healing too? He flips backwards and heals? 

I think this one is important to address. I view Aether being able to heal Ike as a gameplay mechanic and thus it shouldn't be included in the discussion. It would be different if the Black Knight, Titania or Stefan who's training Ike is implied to get the move from comments on the move being able to heal. Tormod's Celerity for instance could be taken account because its not just a gameplay mechanic, but part of the lore regarding Tormod that Muarim addresses in the story. The kid can run so fast not because the game wanted him to have a cool skill but because a tiger learned him how to run.  

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Confirmation of established lore: Kaga stated that Falchion works the same way as Holy Weapons in Genealogy. Both Valentian Revelations and Naga herself stated that Falchion's full might would give the user power rivaling Naga herself. So story-wise, Falchion is just like the Book of Naga from Genealogy. If lore translated into gameplay more properly, Marth would basically be getting a +80 point buff.

ANd that's not even considering the power of the Binding Shield and it's 5 Gemstones. You are pretty much a literal demi-god at that point. 

You should look through the lore a bit more.

If Marth wasn't someone that would take time to keep up with training, he would have died long ago. Hell, Marth was a skinny boy with no armor on him at age 14, took on several armed soldiers who were obviously trained for combat, and Marth STILL won. That shows that Marth isn't someone that actually skimps out on training.

Right. How does that heal HP? It just does. The story in TearRing Saga about how Sol works is that you "steal the opponent's qi" to recover your own.

If you recall in my post I explicitly ignored Kaga sources in favor of representations in the last twenty years. Maybe you should read my post. Thanks for reminding me how not fun these sorts of threads can be. It really doesn't concern me how much anybody agrees with my ratings since they're my ratings. We're not even counting up ratings for an average here, so calm down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

There are a couple of reasons for it.

Firstly is that no topic lasts forever. This topic will eventually run out of steam. Topics made by people far more suited to managing long term topics will eventually run out of steam as well. The Fire Emblem casts are all very large. If I started things chronologically and posted each Archanean until the continent runs out of characters then the topic will have likely lost steam before I get to Gaiden. Posting a similar topic at each sub forum would be possible but it would take a lot more work. 

Comparing Ogma with Navvare is indeed easier and its interesting in its own right. But its also interesting to see how Ogma would compare to his fellow Ogma's or whether Nergal manages to score higher than Gharnef. 

I think this way also offers me a lot more freedom. I don't need to post characters I don't care about and can ask about any character that randomly pops into my mind. I can even do special theme days like a Gharnef showdown or a selection consisting purely of Jagen's.  

 

I meant move on to another game the next day and eventually return back to the first game. But in this case, I think you should talk about the lords first, then major characters, than major villains, etc. What about Heroes OCs like Surtr? I think his power level is arguably the most interesting thing about him so eventually I'd like to see Heroes characters in this thread as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If Marth wasn't someone that would take time to keep up with training, he would have died long ago. Hell, Marth was a skinny boy with no armor on him at age 14, took on several armed soldiers who were obviously trained for combat, and Marth STILL won. That shows that Marth isn't someone that actually skimps out on training.

They do seem however to not be the best Gra sent. It's not that Marth didn't beat soldiers, it's that he's probably fighting relatively weak soldiers, which would fit with how often Gra has brought weak soldiers into the fight.

I have my doubts that 14-year old Marth is going to take on several well-trained and experienced troops and win. Keep in mind as well that Marth at the end of Mystery has at least 4 years that can be accounted for between the beginning and then, Marth will have had a lot of time before then to improve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we take the character at their peak? In that case, shouldn't Roy be stronger than Eliwood or Hector because of how powerful the Binding Blade is? Hence he should probably be given a higher score than a mere 5 because there's no way Eliwood or Hector are at 5 or below. 

Because when one writes a tier list, we take characters with their full power. For example, in Naruto, we don't take into account how strong Naruto and Sasuke were as kids, we look at their current forms as well as the strongest powerups they have permanent access to. But powerups should be permanent and Roy doesn't get to keep the Binding Blade IIRC. Then again, people rank Kakashi based on the temporary power up he got for a couple of mins so I don't know what criteria you want to use. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dayni said:

They do seem however to not be the best Gra sent. It's not that Marth didn't beat soldiers, it's that he's probably fighting relatively weak soldiers, which would fit with how often Gra has brought weak soldiers into the fight.

I have my doubts that 14-year old Marth is going to take on several well-trained and experienced troops and win. Keep in mind as well that Marth at the end of Mystery has at least 4 years that can be accounted for between the beginning and then, Marth will have had a lot of time before then to improve.

While yes, I agree he wouldn't be able to take on elites like the Sable Knights, it says a lot that a young prince who is only 14 still fought actual soldiers. Doesn't matter if they were weak or not per se, as they were still soldiers, who obviously train and have much more experience fighting than Marth would. And yet Marth still won over them. 

Marth always paints himself as weak, but his skills as a fighter are by no means actually weak. Unlike guys like Hector, Ephraim, or Ike, he just doesn't enjoy fighting to the point of looking for fights. But he's gone against many enemies that were incredibly strong and fought actual dragons, all well before he actually got Falchion, and he beat them. 

10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

A lack of love for battle doesn't necessarily imply that someone is weaker. But It would be easy to form the impression that the battle loving Hector or Ike are stronger than the softer Marth. That doesn't need so say anything. Its worth pointing out that Eliwood has won most sparring matches with Hector despite taking much more after Marth. But it is more likely that those who enjoy battle are stronger than the ones that don't. 

3

A very good point. Physically, Hector is much stronger than Eliwood. Eliwood even admits that. But Eliwood defeats Hector more than Hector beats him. This would apply to Marth. He's not strong in the sense of physical prowess. He's strong because he's very skilled. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Marth always paints himself as weak, but his skills as a fighter are by no means actually weak. Unlike guys like Hector, Ephraim, or Ike, he just doesn't enjoy fighting to the point of looking for fights. But he's gone against many enemies that were incredibly strong and fought actual dragons, all well before he actually got Falchion, and he beat them. 

That's Marth with an army. Marth didn't solo all those enemies and dragons single handily. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

But he's gone against many enemies that were incredibly strong and fought actual dragons, all well before he actually got Falchion, and he beat them. 

You're not wrong there.

I hadn't really been counting the Binding Shield when counting his full power, mainly because I'm unclear on it's full power in lore (hence giving him a 7, where I can see his ability, but not how he's going to be charging in and winning all alone).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

That's Marth with an army. Marth didn't solo all those enemies and dragons single handily. 

That is true, and I even pointed this out on my thread. 

I don't think that Marth is the strongest lord or anything. I do think that other lords like Ike or Ephraim are likely to be stronger than him. However, that isn't to say that Marth would actually lose. 

9 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Do we take the character at their peak? In that case, shouldn't Roy be stronger than Eliwood or Hector because of how powerful the Binding Blade is? Hence he should probably be given a higher score than a mere 5 because there's no way Eliwood or Hector are at 5 or below. 

Because when one writes a tier list, we take characters with their full power. For example, in Naruto, we don't take into account how strong Naruto and Sasuke were as kids, we look at their current forms as well as the strongest powerups they have permanent access to. But powerups should be permanent and Roy doesn't get to keep the Binding Blade IIRC. Then again, people rank Kakashi based on the temporary power up he got for a couple of mins so I don't know what criteria you want to use. 

In regards to this, if we're going by endgame types of powers, then Marth would definitely be at 10 here. 

Falchion's power through its lore, and the Binding Shield's power overall that didn't get properly integrated into gameplay completely. Also have a thread above that talks about the Binding Shield's power. 

2 minutes ago, Dayni said:

You're not wrong there.

I hadn't really been counting the Binding Shield when counting his full power, mainly because I'm unclear on it's full power in lore (hence giving him a 7, where I can see his ability, but not how he's going to be charging in and winning all alone).

Hence why I accept the 7-7.5 score. Based on the tier list, he's not necessarily a powerhouse, but definitely plenty strong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marth: Yeah, i agree with the 7 rating most give him. He's powerful and the Shield of Seals is a neat tool but he's not a God. Infinite healing is nice.

Roy: Y'all sleeping, this boy is about 7-8 on the scale. Sure he isn't that physically strong but the Binding Blade is insanely powerful. The Legendary Weapons of Elibe were strong enough to fuck over the laws of the universe and even though most of that power has diminished, i'd wager it's still stronger than Falchion and the Holy Weapons of Jugdral (since appearently those are equal in terms of power). The Binding Blade also allows Roy to strike from a distance, meaning he strike at full power without having to get in close. Also healing. If you look at his in-game preformance, of course Roy would be the weakest.

Lucina: 8-9 on the scale. She's got a better version of Marth's sword and while she lacks the Shield of Seals, she does have Aether which is a very powerful skill. She's also versitile in Lances and went through a hellish experience that neither Marth nor Roy did.

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

But I imagine Roy would go full on shonen protagonist with that in his possession, leading him to make brash, stupid mistakes where he can be disarmed or overpowered.

Except he wouldn't do that at all though. He's too smart for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Roy: Y'all sleeping, this boy is about 7-8 on the scale. Sure he isn't that physically strong but the Binding Blade is insanely powerful. The Legendary Weapons of Elibe were strong enough to fuck over the laws of the universe and even though most of that power has diminished, i'd wager it's still stronger than Falchion and the Holy Weapons of Jugdral (since appearently those are equal in terms of power). The Binding Blade also allows Roy to strike from a distance, meaning he strike at full power without having to get in close. Also healing. If you look at his in-game preformance, of course Roy would be the weakest.

6

Honestly, I would attribute the Binding Blade to be that powerful. It gets hyped up, sure, but the Binding Blade and the other weapons ONLY ever got to nearly destroying the world was because they were in collision with the Elibe dragons for years. Naga fought Duma and Mila for 9 days, and they nearly destroyed the planet from there. 

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Lucina: 8-9 on the scale. She's got a better version of Marth's sword and while she lacks the Shield of Seals, she does have Aether which is a very powerful skill. She's also versitile in Lances and went through a hellish experience that neither Marth nor Roy did.

1

Actually, Marth's Falchion is the full power Falchion, the Exalted Falchion. Lucina's is in fact the inferior one. 

But yeah, Lucina and all the Awakening kids went through a literal hellscape. 

Kind of annoys me that Owain's skills is played off as a joke, only saying that he's strong, but nothing so strong that he'd be a challenge to the other guys like Ryoma or Navarre. Then again, Navarre also says he could easily beat Tiki. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Honestly, I would attribute the Binding Blade to be that powerful. It gets hyped up, sure, but the Binding Blade and the other weapons ONLY ever got to nearly destroying the world was because they were in collision with the Elibe dragons for years. Naga fought Duma and Mila for 9 days, and they nearly destroyed the planet from there. 

I strongly disagree. The fight between Naga and Duma and Mila would've simply ravaged the surface of the planet in the worst case scenario, not actually destroyed it (and even then, it was mostly confined to Archanea). The clash between the Legendary Weapons and the Dragons of Elibe was so great that it began to fuck with the universe itself. A power that alters the universe is infinitely more powerful than a power that ravages a planet.

Sure, it took longer for the Binding Blade and the other weapons to do that but i'd still argue that at their weakest, these weapons are still stronger than Falchion and the Holy Weapons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...