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How canonically strong are these characters? - Day 13 (Tailtiu, Ninian, Morgan)


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Time for Michalis, Muarim and Boey.

Michalis: 8,8/10

I can't really justify giving this guy a 9 or higher. I'm aware that's partly because of my own negative bias since I neither like nor respect this character but there are also some more practical reasons.

If we ignore king Jiol like we should then Michalis is left as the junior partner in the Dohlr alliance. He's certainly no Camus and he's not depicted as dangerous as Gharnef either. If we must decide on the weakest member of the Dohlr triumvirate than Michalis is the natural option considering he has neither the hype of Camus nor the prominence and feats of Gharnef. Michalis feats are definitely his Achilles heel. He never actually does anything as a villain and as such his villainous resume is just bad. Minerva is the one who's tasked to conquer Aurelis and Michalis himself never leaves his throne room. If it hadn't been directly stated otherwise you'd be forgiven to think he's a villain like Ozai who just runs the entire war from his palace without ever taking part himself. The only thing Michalis ever does as a villain is fight Marth and that's a fight he loses. His villainous plotting is also clearly delusional and amateuristic when compared with Gharnef so he doesn't get any points there either.

That said both Minerva and the general plot say that Michalis is stronger than her so we should probably do them the favor of believing it. Being compared to the founder of Macedon is also a pretty significant source of praise. But its only as an anti hero where Michalis gets competent. The villains he intimidate might be starter villains but they conquered Macedon and defeated Minerva so its fairly impressive, and while he doesn't exactly win against Gharnef he at least did well enough to steal an orb and escape. I don't feel Michalis lives up to his hype at all but the hype is established in the canon so it would be silly to deny it. Michalis is a powerful and important dude, but there's just always a bigger fish.

Muarim: 8,5/10

Muarim comes off as pretty powerful to me. He's a giant tiger that has an item that allows him to stay in his tiger form forever. Even if he does lose his tiger form he's still huge and can likely beat down people with his fists if he needs to. Muarim can easily rip the average Beorc to shreds and isn't hindered by any sort of terrain. In POR its somewhat implied that Muarim is the one actually in charge of the fighting while their ''leader'' Tormod is just their cheerleader, at least until he grows up. This would mean Muarim has plenty of combat experience and at least some leadership skills. His only real weakness would be Fire magic. 

There's a cutscene in RD that's pretty suggestive on how Muarim compares to Tormod. When fighting the disciples of Order who all have their armor blessed Tormod is seen struggling against one of the mooks, having to fire two spell and expressing frustration about not doing much damage. Muarim just mows down his own enemy without any problems. At this point Tormod is already a veteran Sage with the Mad Kings War and tons of slave freeing missions under his belt. 

Boey: 6,5/10

I like Boey but he's clearly the wimp Mae says he is. At the start of their journey he has only mastered the Fire spell which implies he's weaker than Mae who can't be that strong herself. Boey's Heroes description also explicitly describe him as being ''unskilled in magic''. Boey can probably do the bare minimum to keep himself standing and contribute to the fight but not much more.  

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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51 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Michalis: 8,8/10

I can't really justify giving this guy a 9 or higher. I'm aware that's partly because of my own negative bias since I neither like nor respect this character but there are also some more practical reasons.

If we ignore king Jiol like we should then Michalis is left as the junior partner in the Dohlr alliance. He's certainly no Camus and he's not depicted as dangerous as Gharnef either. If we must decide on the weakest member of the Dohlr triumvirate than Michalis is the natural option considering he has neither the hype of Camus nor the prominence and feats of Gharnef. Michalis feats are definitely his Achilles heel. He never actually does anything as a villain and as such his villainous resume is just bad. Minerva is the one who's tasked to conquer Aurelis and Michalis himself never leaves his throne room. If it hadn't been directly stated otherwise you'd be forgiven to think he's a villain like Ozai who just runs the entire war from his palace without ever taking part himself. The only thing Michalis ever does as a villain is fight Marth and that's a fight he loses. His villainous plotting is also clearly delusional and amateuristic when compared with Gharnef so he doesn't get any points there either.

That said both Minerva and the general plot say that Michalis is stronger than her so we should probably do them the favor of believing it. Being compared to the founder of Macedon is also a pretty significant source of praise. But its only as an anti hero where Michalis gets competent. The villains he intimidate might be starter villains but they conquered Macedon and defeated Minerva so its fairly impressive, and while he doesn't exactly win against Gharnef he at least did well enough to steal an orb and escape. I don't feel Michalis lives up to his hype at all but the hype is established in the canon so it would be silly to deny it. Michalis is a powerful and important dude, but there's just always a bigger fish.

7

Michalis isn't as strong as Camus in my opinion, but Michalis is no doubt one of the strongest warriors in Archanea, and definitely someone that can match Camus in combat pretty well. 

Honestly, in Archanea, Michalis might very well be the 2nd strongest guy. 

Spoiler

 

I would definitely rank him at 9-9.5.

 

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Michalis 8/10: While he's no Camus Michalis is still powerful in his own right. Iote's Shield allows him to tank bows and wind magic, no Hauteclere though. Still lost to Minvera.

Muarim 7/10: This Tiger Laguz must be strong to survive the year of slavery at Begnion.

Boey 5/10: He admits that he's bad at magic. The reason he's with Cecila's journey because it's his job. 

 

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Michalis: We don't really see Michalis actually do much, but everyone describes him as one of the strongest warriors in Archanea. He's at least Minerva's equal, if I remember his descriptions in the game correctly. Simply based on what the game and story tells us, he's probably about a 8.5/10.

Muarim: Muarim seems to be one of the stronger tiger laguz, if certain game events are anything to go by. He's more of a leader than Tormod, and he's shown to be taking out enemies relatively easily. But I certainly wouldn't put him at the same level as the royals or Ike. 8/10

Boey: The game itself, and Boey himself, seems to make it a point to tell us that he isn't that skilled of a fighter. He's somehow not terribly skilled at magic despite being a mage, and he's a bit of a fraidy cat. Still, he manages to usually hold his own and not be a terrible burden. 6/10

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Michalis: seeing as Ghranef thinks of him as competition and the only other person he is worried about is Camus, I'd say it isn't difficult to assum that he is quite strong, maybe the second strongest in Archanea, at least at the time of Shadow Dragon. Then there's him going to the Dragon Altar alone and stealing Starlight, and I'm definitely not going to fault him for not winning against someone with an invencivility tome. And finally there's being called Iote's second coming and having his shield. Imho it doesn't matter if he is the weakest of the important villains in his game or if he is better as an antihero, we are looking at his strenght, not at his role as a villain or how good he is at it. 9/10.

Boey: there isn't much to say about him, he is said to not be great at magic, but that doesn't mean he is particularly weak. He seems to be average, 6/10.

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Haven't I done a Sacred Stones character yet? I've haven't done a Sacred Stone character yet! Lets fix that my putting down my favorite Stones character in today's list. Joining Caellach will be Ishtar and Alfonse.

Ishtar: 9/10

Yeah, I'm buying the hype about Ishtar being a goddess of Thunder. Ishtar outclassing both her esteemed parents imply she's a pretty big prodigy and its not just because she has a legendary weapon. Blume believes that an Ishtar with Mjolnir is far more dangerous than he is with their divine weapon. The plot treats her pretty nicely by ensuring we know she's a big deal. Like Michalis from yesterday she doesn't really have a whole lot of success so me not marking that against her is probably my bias speaking, but she can at least fight Seliph's army three times and live to tell the tale two times despite being up against multiple Holy Weapon users. She might also have some history fighting the Tracians but that's more of a headcanon. 

Caellach: 8,5/10

Caellach is a pretty big villain but still a junior villain in the grand scheme of things. Given this status I'd say a high but not am amazing score is what he likely deserves. Stones shows Caellach is pretty strong by having him march through both Frelia and Jehena, destroying their stones and conquering Jehena. He's probably the most successful of the Grado Generals. The new trio are implied to be stronger than the old trio so we can assume Caellach is stronger than both Selena and Glen, maybe even stronger than Duessel but the reserve can also be true. Of the new Grado Generals he might be the weakest though since he's the least important of the three. 

Alfonse: 7/10

Alfonse's combat skills are never really referenced as far as I can tell. If Alfonse is neither named as exceptionally strong or weak than I think an average score would be the likeliest answer. 

Very few info is given but there are things we can guess at least. He's probably stronger than Sharena on account of being her big brother but weaker than Anna due to being less experienced. Alfonse is likely the most canon choice to be trapped with Ryoma in a room. Ryoma wants to challenge their leader which Alfonse's could be since he's the crown prince, though it could also be commander Anna. If Alfonse is the likeliest opponent for Ryoma to duel then he can at least hold his own against Ryoma for a while, but the wall being broken and Alfonse being bailed out by reinforcement is more likely than him defeating Ryoma.  

Out of all the lords Alfonse resembles Roy the most as they are both reserved, studious and voiced by Ray Chase. Being more of a Roy than a Hector means Alfonse isn't likely to be too strong. I have this theory that Alfonse's low speed stat is actually supposed to mean he's in bad shape because he spends far too much time studying and not enough time training, which gives him low speed and stamina. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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Ishtar 8.5/10: She's called the goddess of thunder for a reason. Mjolnir allows her to destroy her enemies. But still lost and died to Seliph's army, which is powerful to be fair. In addition to being second to Julius.

 Caellach 7/10 I completely forgot about the guy, but if he's a boss near the end of the game, he much be talented. 

Alfonse 7/10: What makes him talented is his wit. Able to outsmart Surtr and Laegjarn. His combat prowess isn't too high though.

Edited by Jingle Bells
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Okay, I know this is far too late and won't be counted, but whatever. I still throwing my hat in for Takumi since people have misjudged and frankly bashed him in this topic ("anyone except Sakura and Elise could kick his ass" for real?).

He deserves at least an on the scale. And he is very much the equal to Leon, both in terms of intelligence and power. The intelligence part is repeatedly noted in their suppports. As for power, the drama CD has him explicitly shown him wiping out a huge number of enemies, shocking onlookers at the sheer display of power. He is noted to be an excellent swordfighter too, being regularly trained by Ryouma, and Hinata saying he is the one guy he could never defeat. All of the maps you face him on are nail-bitingly difficult, which should be counted as this is a consistent trait of them all. He is repeatedly noted to be well-read and knowledgable. His emotions do hold him back at times, but it should be noted that Ryouma actually thinks he would be a good candidate for working in government and that all he requires is some training for it. He is the first one to come rushing to Corrin's aid against Anthony, meaning he was either the first to realize what happened or just managed to outrun all the others, which is impressive considering he is canonically on foot against the horse-riding Nohrians/flying pegasi/wyverns. As for how he'd fare against Leon directly, the power-level shown by the Fuujin in the Drama CD certainly seems enough to stand up to Brynhildr. And without their weapons, considering how often it's noted that Takumi trains extensively and is physically very fit, Leon would be more than likely eating dirt before long.

This is just my two cents here, and I won't be following up on this. No worries.

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Ishtar: She's much like Michalis in that the story tells us she's very powerful. She's able to shrug off most attacks and stand up to Holy Weapons, at least temporarily. Everything else that needs to be said has already been said. 8.5/10

Caellach: Being one of the more successful antagonists, he killed Joshua's mother and destroyed two kingdom's stones. He was one of the top swordsman around, enough to become Joshua's rival, and it shows in the story. Joshua ultimately conquers him, of course, and he does fall short of people like Ephraim, and maybe Duessel. 8/10

Alfonse: I honestly don't know what to even say about the Heroes characters. They're...fine, I guess? Average. Sure, we'll go with that. 6 or 7/10.

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Ishtar: One of the strongest holy blood warriors in the entire game 9/10

Caellach: One of the villains that managed to accomplishes some of his goals but eventually still gets taken out by Joshua so a 7.5/10?

Alfonse: I only played up to book 2 chapter 12 or so I think but he admires other characters more than he actually does stuff himself so I guess a 5 or a 5/10. I would give the same score to Anna and his sister or a point less because he actually bothers using his brain in some situations.

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Caellach: he seems pretty strong, there's a reason for him breaking two of the stones. The problem is that, instead of him being really powerful, the other armies are the ones that come across as weak to me, so while he'd be one of the strongest of his country, he isn't really that high in the ranking. 8/10.

Alfonse: we don't really have much to go by as we don't really know how much fight he, Sharena and Anna actually do, so 6,5-7/10.

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Lets do Tailtiu, Ninan(+Nils) and Morgan

Tailtiu: 5/10

Tailtiu is the last of the noble amigo's and probably the weakest. She's the youngest of the three and doesn't seem naturally strong like Lex nor as diligent a student as Azelle. I doubt Reptor would personally tutor her either. 

Tailtiu coming with a Thoron tome might imply she's more naturally gifted than Azelle who comes with a basic Fire tome. Tailtiu's problem would be that she squanders that potential because training is ''boring''. I imagine her magic tutors heard one Heroes quite a lot ''All you do is talk, talk, talk about the most tedious stuff in the world! I'm so bored!''

Ninian and Nils: 1/10

I'll just do them both since what goes for one goes for the other as well. I really like the dragon siblings but I'm gonna have to give the the lowest score of them all. Ouch!

Bards might be useful to have around but its best not to put either of those two anywhere near the enemy. Neither Ninian nor Nils showed they can defend themselves from the average black Fang mook. Ninian got captured by mooks back in Lyn's mode and if Lyn hadn't intervened so would Nils. Collectively they seem to have at least five kidnapping under their belt. Even princess Peach would be hard pressed to outdo them on that front. On top of that Nils is so weak he's in danger of feinting at times and Ninian isn't shown to be much stronger than her brother. 

If Ninian and Nils could use their dragon stone things would change but as long as they are in Elibe they are stuck as wimps. 

Morgan: 7/10

The Morgans have an unlimited potential. Robin fears that they will one day outclass him, they can possibly have both Grima and Naga blood and them being able to reclass into any class implies they are naturally gifted in whatever they try. But the Morgans are also goofy kids with amnesia and a very small stature. 

If the Morgans have an unlimited potential they also have unlimited potential for fooling around. Its probably not out of character for them to go chasing butterflies in the middle of battle or actually stopping to fight to pray when their enemy uses the ''Say your prayers'' line in combat, or use a fire tome when in a cave full with weird smelling gas. They can be a bit clueless. 

Male Morgan's support with Kjelle says that canonically he's physically the weakest guy in camp so if anyone gets close he's probably toast. This might go for female Morgan as well. 

One day the Morgans will be a solid 10 but until they mature they aren't quite there yet. 

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Tailtiu 5.5/10: She's underwhelming in a world of dudes with weapons given from the Gods.

Morgan 7/10: I"ll put them on the same level as Robin. I feel that Morgan is one of those cases where potentially with years  of practice they can be powerful. But at their current state they're above average mages.

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Tailtiu 7/10: She might not be as studious as Azel but unlike him she can use Thoron straight out of the gate when she joins so I'll give her a half a point more than I gave Azelle. 

Ninian and Nils 1/10 (normal): Without their dragon powers they're kind of useless. They don't show any kind of combat skills whatsoever so assuming we rate them without those because they almost never use it in the story, then they're a 1/10. It's been too long since I've played FE7 so I can't say I would know enough details about their dragon forms to rate those.

Morgan 7/10: They're decently strong but they'll take a lot of time before they'll get anywhere to the strength of their father at least physically. 

Edited by Hekselka
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Morgan: as others have said they have skills and a lot of potential, but they haven't reached their peak just jet, so 7/10. If we were to count the Morgans from The Future Past they probably be an 8/10 though, one doesn't simply comands Grima's army.

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8 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Morgan: as others have said they have skills and a lot of potential, but they haven't reached their peak just jet, so 7/10. If we were to count the Morgans from The Future Past they probably be an 8/10 though, one doesn't simply comands Grima's army.

Except the Morgan we get IS the one from Future Past.

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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Except the Morgan we get IS the one from Future Past.

Yes, but with amnesia, wich brings two points into the equation:

-Their ending says that they never recovered their memories so their skill level is lost, and all that is left is the potential to return there or surpass it,  but nothing points to them doing so. It's similar to Camus with Zeke in a way, only that he does remember. Had he never recovered his memories he wouldn't be more than 8.5/10 as Zeke as of SoV.

-If they lose their memories forever, are they even the same person? I mean, with different memories comes not only different skills but different personalities too. As I said, it's one thing with Camus because he remembers everything at the end, but is it fair to use the level of someone who has ceased to exist when analysing our Morgans?

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Tailtiu: It's kinda hard to gauge Tailtiu's strength, the game doesn't say a whole lot about her but she comes with a weapon that strong mages use. She survived that fateful battle at the end of Gen 1 and took an insane amount of abuse before succumbing, but I wouldn't put her at the level of, say, Lex. Maybe she'd be around a 6 or 7/10.

Ninian + Nils: Throughout the story, I think they're hiding a lot of their power. They are the key to opening the gate after all. But at the same time, in human form, they are definitely a bit weakened. Ninian gets amnesia and Nils doesn't do much outside of bard work. Human forms would definitely be around maybe a 2/10, but I'd rate them at the very least a 7/10 in dragon form.

Morgan(s): Basically Robin, but not at their peak. They have tons of potential but from all we see in the main story, they're not quite there yet. 7/10

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14 hours ago, Sbuscoz said:

Yes, but with amnesia, wich brings two points into the equation:

-Their ending says that they never recovered their memories so their skill level is lost, and all that is left is the potential to return there or surpass it,  but nothing points to them doing so. It's similar to Camus with Zeke in a way, only that he does remember. Had he never recovered his memories he wouldn't be more than 8.5/10 as Zeke as of SoV.

-If they lose their memories forever, are they even the same person? I mean, with different memories comes not only different skills but different personalities too. As I said, it's one thing with Camus because he remembers everything at the end, but is it fair to use the level of someone who has ceased to exist when analysing our Morgans?

Fair point. Using Camus as an example and how he was as Zeke does indicate that lack of memories would make you weaker than you normally would be. Though Robin would be in a similar regard. 

 

2 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Ninian + Nils: Throughout the story, I think they're hiding a lot of their power. They are the key to opening the gate after all. But at the same time, in human form, they are definitely a bit weakened. Ninian gets amnesia and Nils doesn't do much outside of bard work. Human forms would definitely be around maybe a 2/10, but I'd rate them at the very least a 7/10 in dragon form.

 

Should remember that when Ninian regained her full powers as a dragon, she killed two Fire Dragons and weakened the third, and that dragon was tough to beat even though Hector, Eliwood, and Athos had Legendary Weapons and Lyn had a weapon on par with the Legendary Weapons.

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28 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Fair point. Using Camus as an example and how he was as Zeke does indicate that lack of memories would make you weaker than you normally would be. Though Robin would be in a similar regard. 

Robin is indeed a similar case, but there are differences. In Morgan's supports the only mentions of training is when Kjelle rejects M!Morgan and when F!Morgan show that she does a lot of push ups. While the last is useful none of them talk or show any meaningful practice in actual combat, which they probably do, but not noteworthy. Meanwhile Robin trains regularly with Frederick and at least once in a while with Lon'qu and Sully, and is shown to be able of winning against Kjelle, one of the strongests kid, with relatively ease (even if it was because of her use of brute force, she is said to be strong from the very beginning, lacking finesse or not), which makes him more impresive than his childs with the sword. And then we have the ending were he is shown to be able of using some of Grima's power which, even if we don't really know how strong it is and how much does he have, makes him more impresive with magic too.

Both, Robin and Morgan, are amnesiac, but while the latter doesn't show any significant improvement combat wise, we see the former training and showing (somewhat) his skills.

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