How canonically strong are these characters? - Day 13 (Tailtiu, Ninian, Morgan)

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although in fairness, the kingdoms of Archanea look fairly small by later FE standards. Maybe it is just due to how zoomed out the map is compared to Tellius and Jugdral, but they don't seem very large, and are certainly smaller than Elibe countries.

To use this map, the Holy Kingdom of Archanea is what, the two peninsulas up to that little river and the one island? It is big by Archanean standards, no other country is that large there. Yet, perhaps, not very big by the standards of other games, maybe average size. Grust looks terribly small for the greatest military power per capita on the continent.

It really never does come together how big these continents really are. You can assume they are large, or they are small. It's just never made clear. We never get a global map after all.

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm in the mood for a theme day and today's theme is brooding teenagers who totally aren't going through a phase or anything. Lets talk about the droodiest boys in Fire emblem, namely Raigh, Soren and Takumi. 

Soren: 7/10

Soren talks a big deal but I don't think I'm entirely convinced by his power. He has a vast amount of magical power to be sure but the rest of his abilities might be very lacking. For all his magic Soren still has the body of a young boy in POR and while taller in the sequel he's still incredibly thin and has a short stature that's frequently commented on. So if anyone gets too close to Soren he's done for.

In their boss conversation Shinon points out that Soren isn't really made for battle and that he used to depend on Ike's protection a lot. Later during the rescue of Lucia its Soren who lets his guard down around the rebels and needs Mia to watch his back. 

Soren's grand statement about his own power might have some truth to it. He's a spirit charmer and the grandson of the strongest being on Tellius after all. I could see him being able to bombard anyone with powerful magic, but from a distance and safely behind friendly soldiers rather than in the midst of a battle.

Raigh: 6,5/10

I don't think Raigh is supposed to be that powerful yet. At the end of the day Raigh is a child who's magic skills seem to have been entirely self taught until he begins supporting with Niime. I don't see any reason to believe he is particularly powerful upon his recruitment. Yet Raigh does have some skill. He managed to make his way to the Western Islands alone without getting murdered by bandits along the way so he's at least able to take care of himself. 

Raigh does have a good amount of potential. He's descended from a magically gifted house and gets lessons from the strongest Dark Mage alive so he could very well become one of Elbibe's most powerful magic users decades after the game.

Takumi: 8/10

Takumi is likely one of the strongest fighters on Hoshido's side....but not the strongest that Fateslandia has to offer. Takumi has a lot going for him, he's shown to train rigorously, has a legendary bow and he is apparently good enough to lead the Hoshidan army with Ryoma while his big sister doesn't seem able to do the same. He's already much more capable to Corrin who feels he/she needs to take lessons from their little brother. Being able to use dragon veins should be useful on combat. 

What holds Takumi back isn't really what he himself can bring to the table but how he compares to his peers. While the plot treats Takumi very nicely they also firmly establish him as the weakest of the male royals. He's obviously inferior to Ryoma who in turn is depicted as less powerful than Xander. In the rivalry with Leo Takumi is shown as the weaker side. The plot treats Leo as fairly intimidating in a way that they didn't show Takumi so we can assume that Takumi isn't as strong as his Nohrian counterpart. Takumi might also be a little too emotional in ways a clever opponent might exploit.

Things become different when Takumi gets possessed. In Corrin's dream the battle cries of the siblings show that Anankos Takumi is having the upper hand against all Nohrian siblings at once which would give him a 10.  At that point it probably isn't Takumi anymore though.

[Jingle Jangle]

Soren: 6.5/10 He's a better strategist than he is a fighter. He's still a teenager there is always room for improvement.

Raigh: 6/10 He talks a big game, but I don't buy it. Again he's still a teenager there is always room for improvement.

Takumi: 7/10: This Hoshidan royal is always overshadowed by his older siblings. Not to say he's weak, having the Fujin Yumi, and being a talented archer helps.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Soren: Throughout much of Tellius, Soren is shown to rely on others when it comes to actual fighting, for the most part. But when he does fight, he can hold his own and is perhaps a little deceptive in his prowess. But like Roy, it would mostly be his cunning that wins him the battle. He's probably around a 6.5/10.

Raigh: I'm fairly certain Raigh is the youngest dark mage in the series, being even a bit younger than Roy. But he has a surprising amount of skill in his magic for his age; as has been noted, he made it very far all by himself without being killed and he does come from a magically gifted family. From what we see in the game, he's around a 6.5/10 with the potential to grow into one of THE mages in Elibe.

Takumi: He's certainly not as strong as Xander or Ryoma, and he's likely weaker than Hinoka, Camilla, and Leo, making him one of the weakest royal siblings. That being said, he does have great skill with a bow and he has a legendary weapon, so that does help him a bit. But, as the story shows, he very often let's his emotions get the better of him, and that's a big hindrance for him specifically as it always shows him not performing well in such a case. He's also not likely to stand up to the majority of other main protagonists, either. 7/10 at best.

[Slumber]

I'll have to agree with what's been said. Raigh and Soren get it kind of rough due to being normal mages, and the difficulties that come with being a mage outside of Jugdral.

Soren is a talented mage and a tactical genius, but he's not much of a fighter on his own. He's Ike's right hand man and with back up he can be a force to be reckoned with, but on his own he's not that special. We also have no idea what being half-dragon really does for him. 6.5/10.

Raigh self-taught himself dark magic. Learning the elder magic is supposed to be pretty hard in Elibe, and even Pent, the highest ranking wizard(Or soon-to-be) in all of Elibe doesn't have much knowledge on it, despite being curious about it. He also made it to the Dread Isles on his own, which is a pretty big deal. That said, the latter could be explained in a number of ways, and the former doesn't mean much until he really mean that much until he gets more experience, which he likely would with Niime's tutelage, as she's a figure even Pent looks up to. 10 years after FE6? Raigh could be in the 9s. As he is in FE6, he's another 6.5/10.

Takumi is... look, I know he's a Royal in Fates and has a legendary weapon, which should make him crazy powerful, but I feel like the games(Conquest in particular) treat him as a joke that isn't much of a threat until Anankos fills him with his sexual energy. On Conquest, he's that guy. He's the running joke boss who can never win, even when he's at an insane advantage. And Birthright is a bunch of people just telling him to chill out for half the game. It kind of feels like he gets far and away the least respect of the Royals, which undermines the implications of him actually being a Royal with a legendary weapon. I get the feeling just about everyone besides Elise and Sakura could kick his ass, and he definitely fares far worse than his Nohrian counterpart. I'll say 7.5/10, because he still is slightly superhuman with his gifts, even if he doesn't have much to show for it.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Slumber

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

until Anankos fills him with his sexual energy

Whaaaaat?! Is Anankos a pedophile or something?

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Whaaaaat?! Is Anankos a pedophile or something?

No more so than anybody on your team that can have kids with Takumi.

[omegaxis1]

Soren and Raigh are both a 6 for me, as neither are known to be super strong in the long run, especially since magic doesn't get that much praise in Tellius. 

Takumi gets a 7.5. I mean, he has the potential to be as strong as Ryoma, Xander, Lucina, etc. But his insecurity gets the better of him. Technically, he's Leo's equal, as Ryoma is Xander's equal. Leo and Takumi are technically skilled prodigies. Takumi managed to best Ryoma once in a sparring session in their support, and Xander confesses that had Leo continued to train with the sword, he would possibly surpass Xander despite how Xander trained longer than Leo had. Hinata is technically supposed to be very strong story-wise, as he comes from a long line of warriors, and he was really great, but then Takumi beat him without breaking a sweat in swordplay. 

[Icelerate]

I give Soren a 6.5 and Tibarn a 9.0. 

Mages have been portrayed to need backup to be effective. After all, Soren was the only GM who needed to get saved even though the GM was stomping the fodder rebels. I rank Soren slightly higher than Micaiah due to more battle experience than her, but once she gets blessed by Yune, she's the strongest mage in Tellius barring Sephiran. 

Tibarn seems to be on par with Nailah if there battle conversation is anything to go by. Also Tibarn is stronger than Naesala due to an explicit statement that demonstrates this and the fact Naesala has an S rank in claw unlike Tibarn's SS rank. Tibarn is on par with the Black Knight considering he clashed with him without him or the Black Knight taking damage. 

[Etrurian emperor]

Time for Tiki, Pent and Gray

(Archenea) Tiki: 8,5/10

As Naga's daughter Tiki has quite a lot of power but Tiki is also a very immature and emotional little girl. She got a lot of raw power but I think she lacks even the most basic of combat skills. But I guess you don't need much skill when you can turn into a dragon. There's definitely a big danger if Tiki doesn't manage to control her power which was the reason she was sealed off to begin with. So for the lack of skill she gets an 8,5 but with plenty of room to grow to a solid 10 when she gets older. 

Pent: 9/10

A very easy 9. Pent is one of the strongest individuals in the second strongest nation on Elibe and he has been trained by the best anima mage Elibe has ever known. Pent is introduced by single handedly decimating a bandit army. His own casual behavior about it and Athos telling Louise not to worry are there to suggest that this isn't a case of gameplay and story segregation either. Pent really was going to town on the bandits and would have slaughtered them even if Eliwood decided to sit on his butt the entire chapter. 

Gray: 8/10

Gray is probably the strongest of the villagers. He seemed to have been playing the Jeigan role a bit in the original gaiden and out of all the villagers he's the most obviously buffed, even being more muscled than the Rigelian Alm. There's an interesting line that Tobin has about the matter when speaking with Kliff. He says he hates Alm and Gray showing him off. I might be reading to much into that line but it does suggest the possibility that Gray is supposed to be above Tobin by quite a bit and good enough to be named in the same breath as Alm as far as power goes, though obviously being weaker than Alm himself. 

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

(Archenea) Tiki: 8,5/10

As Naga's daughter Tiki has quite a lot of power but Tiki is also a very immature and emotional little girl. She got a lot of raw power but I think she lacks even the most basic of combat skills. But I guess you don't need much skill when you can turn into a dragon. There's definitely a big danger if Tiki doesn't manage to control her power which was the reason she was sealed off to begin with. So for the lack of skill she gets an 8,5 but with plenty of room to grow to a solid 10 when she gets older. 

I would actually say that even young Tiki is already a solid 9, or even 9.5. The fact is that she really is strong enough to already take on pretty much an army all by herself. Only reason she isn't a 10 is because she's still too young and immature. 

10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Gray: 8/10

Gray is probably the strongest of the villagers. He seemed to have been playing the Jeigan role a bit in the original gaiden and out of all the villagers he's the most obviously buffed, even being more muscled than the Rigelian Alm. There's an interesting line that Tobin has about the matter when speaking with Kliff. He says he hates Alm and Gray showing him off. I might be reading to much into that line but it does suggest the possibility that Gray is supposed to be above Tobin by quite a bit and good enough to be named in the same breath as Alm as far as power goes, though obviously being weaker than Alm himself. 

Ehhh... I dunno. Gray... doesn't ever strike to be as the super strong type. Like, he might have been the strongest villager, but he lacks way too many notable feats to be considered to be even a rival to Alm by the end of things, combat-wise. I would honestly give him a 7 at best.

[DisobeyedCargo]

I’d also rank Gray a 7. He’s shown to be quite skilled and above Tobin, but far from invincible. While Tobin did say that he’s far below Alm and Gray,  I’d imagine if Gray and Alm were to fight each other at full strength, Alm would still come out as the victor fairly easily.

Tiki id rank a 9/10 simply due to her raw power.

and Pent I also agree with a 9/10.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Tiki: Even as a child, Tiki is already strong enough to take out pretty much anyone, despite lack of skill and some immaturity. Being Naga's daughter and having to be put to sleep for a while also hint at her exceptional power. She's easily a 9/10 in Archenea and definitely gets to an even higher ranking by the time Awakening rolls around.

Pent: Being trained by Athos, Pent is hands down one of the strongest characters in the Elibe saga. He's shown to be able to handle a small army with ease and is one of the biggest assets to Eliwood's forces, casually having the ability to turn the tides of battle all on his own. He has the support of Louise and Hawkeye but he'd decimate even without them. He's another easy 9/10.

Gray: There's no doubt that Gray is probably the strongest villager aside from Alm himself, but he doesn't seem to have as much prowess as someone like Clive, or even Clair. He'll definitely hold his own and can give a battle a push, but he's probably around a 7/10.

[Jingle Jangle]

Young Tiki 9/10: She's the daughter/reincarnation of Naga and a divine dragon. What lacks in skill is made up in raw power. 

Skipping Pent since I didn't complete FE7.

Gray 6.8/10 Even thought he's full of himself I don't really see him as a powerhouse. Still more talented than the average soldier. Maybe is the lack of powerhouses in the Valentian continent that make me underrate him?

[X-Naut]

Young Tiki 8/10

Pent 9/10

Gray 7/10

I'm tempted to say 8.5 for Pent, but the others I'm comfortable with. Tiki's inexperience keeps her from being a 9 and Gray I wouldn't call higher than this.

[Slumber]

Tiki is a young dragon with tons of potential, but not that much to show for it on her own. I'm only saying "that much" relative to Naga, who is an easy 10/10. Tiki's a far cry from Naga, and relatively, I'd say Tiki's like an 8.5.

Pent's Etruria's Mage General, Athos' disciple, and he'll probably eventually take up the title of Archsage. But if Nergal's like a 9.5, then Athos is like a 9, and Pent is thus like an 8.5. Plenty strong, tons of experience, and pretty much everything that makes a character strong, he just has yet to really break through into the upper-echelon of power, even if he's sure to get there eventually.

Gray suffers from "normal dude" syndrome. He might be second only to Alm of the Ram kids, but it's a pretty distant second. No particular feats to his name, no crazy magic powers, no insane heritage that gives him weird superpowers. He eventually makes it to the higher ranks of Valentia's knights, but he remains a completely normal dude. He's like a 6.5.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Slumber

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Tiki is a young dragon with tons of potential, but not that much to show for it on her own. I'm only saying "that much" relative to Naga, who is an easy 10/10. Tiki's a far cry from Naga, and relatively, I'd say Tiki's like an 8.5.

1

I'm pretty sure that like Grima breaks the 10 scale to 11 or just Endbringer, Naga would also break the scale. 

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Gray suffers from "normal dude" syndrome. He might be second only to Alm of the Ram kids, but it's a pretty distant second. No particular feats to his name, no crazy magic powers, no insane heritage that gives him weird superpowers. He eventually makes it to the higher ranks of Valentia's knights, but he remains a completely normal dude. He's like a 6.5.

 

Makes me wonder Camus's past. He's known only for his fame and feats, but nothing about his lineage or past. Like, was he a peasant that attained his strength on his own?

[Slumber]

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I'm pretty sure that like Grima breaks the 10 scale to 11 or just Endbringer, Naga would also break the scale. 

Look. Y'all guys need to fix your scales. I'm not gonna go past 10.

I'm reserving 10s purely for beings capable of causing the apocalypse pretty much whenever they please once they reach their full power. Which pretty much amounts to Naga, Grima, Ashera, and possibly Anankos(When he isn't peeing his pants at the sight of pretty basic things Naga can do). Then the 9s are are like, exceptionally strong humans/Dragons who aren't quite the level of endbringer. Here's where your superpowered baddies like Julius and Nergal reside, and your heroes of legend like the pure Holy Blood Crusaders or Athos. Oddities can occur here, like Reinhardt and FE1 Camus, who manage to break the "normal dude" mold.

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Makes me wonder Camus's past. He's known only for his fame and feats, but nothing about his lineage or past. Like, was he a peasant that attained his strength on his own?

Camus is a weird one, because he's probably an easy 9 in FE1/11, but he drops to the 8s when you get to 2/15 and 3/12. There he's strong, but he's not "this guy is the strongest dude on the whole continent" strong like he is in FE1.

But I would assume he was just a normal dude who really worked his ass off to become a superpower in his world. Kind of like Reinhardt. There might just be some latent potential with these kinds of characters that brings them to these levels.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Slumber

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Camus is a weird one, because he's probably an easy 9 in FE1/11, but he drops to the 8s when you get to 2/15 and 3/12. There he's strong, but he's not "this guy is the strongest dude on the whole continent" strong like he is in FE1.

But I would assume he was just a normal dude who really worked his ass off to become a superpower in his world. Kind of like Reinhardt. There might just be some latent potential with these kinds of characters that brings them to these levels.

Well, it makes sense that Camus might be weaker during those points, especially during FE2/15. He likely hadn't actually fully recovered from the fact that he nearly died, fell off a cliff, and nearly drowned all the way to Valentia. Those things would be hard to fully recover from, even if physically you are able to move around and fight a little. For FE3/12, I think Sirius might purposefully be holding back to avoid raising too many red flags, or he still hasn't recovered.

What kind of training do these kinds of people go through?

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

What kind of training do these kinds of people go through?

Weighted training clothes and access the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, probably. Only logical explanations.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Slumber

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Weighted training clothes and access the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, probably. Only logical explanations.

I'm getting PTDD (Post Traumatic Deeprealm Disorder) visions.

[Jingle Jangle]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

What kind of training do these kinds of people go through?

Push-ups, sit-ups, and plenty of juice

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Push-ups, sit-ups, and plenty of juice

And having a heart that is pure. Unadulterated. Badass.

[Armagon]

Ooops, missed a day

Soren: Saving it for when i play Tellius

Raigh: 6.5. He's a strong Dark Mage but nothing game breaking.

Takumi: 8. He's got what is essentially Palutena's Bow as his legendary weapoj and he can hold his own against Ryoma in a sparring match (i think). He's also got Dragon Vein and, once again, the game never establishes if DV users are limited to where and how they can use it or if they can just snap their fingers and cause the ground to split or something. I like to assume it's the latter so yeah, Takumk's an 8 out of sheer fact that he can terraform the land.

Young Tiki: 9/10. She's one of the strongest Manaketrs in the series and the only thing holding her back is her young age (for a Manakete). She had to be put to sleep by Naga to make sure that she didn't destroy whole nations by herself.

Pent: 8.5/10. One of the most powerful people in Etruia and trained by Archsage Athos himself. 

Gray: 6.5-7/10. Just a strong fighter, really. Not much else too him, he's just strong.

[Icelerate]

I'll give Pent a solid 8.5. He's not quite Tibarn, Black Knight or Athos level but he's just below them IMO.