How canonically strong are these characters? - Day 13 (Tailtiu, Ninian, Morgan)

[DarthR0xas]

3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

What kind of training do these kinds of people go through?

100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats, and a 10 km run every day, for your whole life.

[Icelerate]

9 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

A very easy 9. Pent is one of the strongest individuals in the second strongest nation on Elibe and he has been trained by the best anima mage Elibe has ever known. Pent is introduced by single handedly decimating a bandit army. His own casual behavior about it and Athos telling Louise not to worry are there to suggest that this isn't a case of gameplay and story segregation either. Pent really was going to town on the bandits and would have slaughtered them even if Eliwood decided to sit on his butt the entire chapter. 

 

To add on, the only threat to Pent was that he would run out of tomes to use. Even Hector and co. felt like they didn't do much in fighting the bandits and that it was mostly Pent who slaughtered them. Does this imply Pent was more powerful than all the playable units combined because he himself contributed more to the fighting than the army? 

Spoiler

(After map is cleared)

Pent:
“You really helped me out. Thank you.”

Hector:
“Don’t really feel like we did much.”

Pent:
“That’s not true. Magic tomes don’t last forever, you know? So why have you come to this wasteland?”

 

I might bump this guy up to a 9, he's quite insane. It's not like he was worn down or beat up at all which goes to show just how powerful he is. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Icelerate

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

late for MY BOY but

 

Hardin is a definite 8/10. Its largely implied that Hardin was crazilly outnumbered against Macedon, but its worth noting dude manage to last ridiculously long through clever way of taking fights. Afterwards he managed the core of Archanea's army and is generally considered the pair of hero of Archanea on par with the Legendary weapon wielders. Note that in the backstory itself, Hardin was the two person(besides Camus) who ever manage a win against Archanea's army at the time, pushing them back after the Aurelis nobles tried to enlist their help after Hardin trounced the slavery issues on Aurelis. Its true Archanea before Hardin was much weaker, but Gottoh used them as the standard to live up to for a reason

If this was based on how useful he is, he would be 9/10, as FE3 manage to show, and he is also no slouch in combat to begin with. Based on feats on the story, he's easilly Archanea's greatest tactician and management dude, putting him close to the level to a certain red haired tactician of Jugdral

 

Pent is 9/10. Just like Camus, this is one of few character who have a canonical story where they destroyed the entire force all by himself. He's not quite the monster that is Camus but he's very close. The only character besides Karel(implied to be a monster) and Athos i can think of from FE7 that is comparable to him that joined Eliwood's army is Vaida who is implied to be very strong by herself in story.... and.... yeah lets be honest here she more than delivered

Edited October 16, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Etrurian emperor]

And the topic lasted a full week today. I must admit I was kinda expecting the topic to tank much sooner than that. Today's theme will be axe users since they need some love. 

Lex: 8/10

Lex is Hector before Hector became a thing. He's not as prominent as Hector so he naturally scores lower but Lex has a general air of power around him. Lex goes to war with a pretty cocky attitude so that coupled with his general behavior suggest he's seen combat before. He's got an axe to hit hard with, a pony for mobility, holy blood to ensure better potential and him having the paragorn skill suggest he gets stronger by fighting more easily then others. 

Boyd: 7,5/10

As the middle brother Boyd ranks between the two brothers in combat. He's not the skilled knight Oscar is but he's not a newbie like Rolf either. Boyd can't be too strong since he's treated as a bit of a joke but he remains a Greil mercenary with all the prominence that gives a character by the time Radiant dawn comes around. Skill might be his biggest weakness since he's too excitable and doesn't hold skill in that high regard if his conversation with Rolf is anything to by by. 

Arthur: 10/10

The power of JUSTICE will make Arthur pull through every obstacle and strokes of bad luck might just effect his opponents as much at it does Arthur. An Arthur being set on fire could easily light up the opponent next to him along with him or being struck by lightning when clashing weapons with his enemy would shock them both. And if all fails Arthur will fight twice as hard for truth, JUSTICE and the Nohrian way so he'll win in the end.

Okay perhaps a 7 is more accurate. He managed to convince Garon into being his daughter's guard and he did it without getting killed for annoying the ever grumpy king so he must have some skill. But in the end he remains kind of a screw up. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Armagon]

Lex: 7/10. He's pretty strong and having Holy Blood makes him stronger than the average person but he doesn't really have that many feats. I think he also perished at the Battle of Bahalla, but that's the case for most of the male cast in the first generation.

Boyd: Haven't played Tellius.

Arthur: Justice/10, even with his bad luck, he could probably take down Naga and Grima.

I kid, he's more like a 6/10. His bad luck can maybe work to his advantage but he ain't gotta a whole lot going for him.

[Jingle Jangle]

Lex: 6.5/10 While he is strong due to minor Neir blood. I don't see anything impressive about him.

Boyd: 6.5/10 The ax men of the Greil Mercenaries is talented, but he being the punchline of most jokes makes me lower his score.

Arthur (10/10 for justice) 6/10 He is surprisingly durable to survive all of his bad luck, but that doesn't stop the universe from hating him.

[Slumber]

Lex is Hector on a Horse. He's depicted as an equally capable protector of Azelle as Sigurd is(And we can go on a bit, long, windy chain about where that would put Lex), and one of the more combat savvy member of Gen 1. It's tough to say exactly how strong he is, but being in the same stratosphere as Sigurd puts him at at least an 8/10, since as strong as he is, he's still not Sigurd level. Few people are.

Boyd's power comes down to a similar argument. And for the people saying Boyd's treated as a joke, you did play Radiant Dawn, right? In PoR, he's absolutely a hotheaded jock who gets treated as such, but by RD, he's mellowed out a lot, and he's really only fucked with by Rolf, his bratty little brother, and Mist, his bratty little love interest. And that is in light hearted base-conversations. In actual cutscenes and serious moments, Boyd isn't really treated differently than anyone else. When it comes to actual physical prowess, that's where the similarities to the Lex argument arise. Aside from baseline "He's a member of the legendary Mercenaries", which realistically puts any of the physical front line fighters at least in the 7 range, the other member of the GM/IM he gets compared to most is... Ike. And it's been that way since the very first chapter of PoR. Like Lex, he's obviously not as good as Ike. But being in the same conversation as Ike, who's an easy 9 even without Ragnell, puts Boyd at least at an 8/10.

Arthur is a 6.5 or a 7. He gets an immediate boost due to being a Royal Retainer, which means his combat skills are good enough to be entrusted with a Royal's life. Granted, he's the retainer of the weakest Norhian Royal, and he has really not a lot of ability to show for it... and his luck is abysmal and would probably get him killed pretty quickly in real fights, he can, at least, fight to a respectable level.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Slumber

[Jingle Jangle]

52 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Boyd's power comes down to a similar argument. And for the people saying Boyd's treated as a joke, you did play Radiant Dawn, right? In PoR, he's absolutely a hotheaded jock who gets treated as such, but by RD, he's mellowed out a lot, and he's really only fucked with by Rolf, his bratty little brother, and Mist, his bratty little love interest. And that is in light hearted base-conversations. In actual cutscenes and serious moments, Boyd isn't really treated differently than anyone else. When it comes to actual physical prowess, that's where the similarities to the Lex argument arise. Aside from baseline "He's a member of the legendary Mercenaries", which realistically puts any of the physical front line fighters at least in the 7 range, the other member of the GM/IM he gets compared to most is... Ike. And it's been that way since the very first chapter of PoR. Like Lex, he's obviously not as good as Ike. But being in the same conversation as Ike, who's an easy 9 even without Ragnell, puts Boyd at least at an 8/10.

I have played Radiant Dawn, it just that he barely get any attention in the game. So it's hard for me to determine how much stronger he got in a couple years when all the other mercenaries are lopped together. While he is a talented person to be part of the group, what else there is to base off of?

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I have played Radiant Dawn, it just that he barely get any attention in the game. So it's hard for me to determine how much stronger he got in a couple years when all the other mercenaries are lopped together. While he is a talented person to be part of the group, what else there is to base off of?

It is mostly just flavor text in RD, yeah, but his base convos in RD are a far cry from how he was treated in PoR. And he's still getting compared to Ike. Mostly in that the two are getting so massive that they're both ripping out of their clothes.

Maybe it's just my inferences, but RD gives me the impression that:

1. Boyd's more mature and treated with much more respect(Outside of the kids) than he was in PoR
2. Boyd's still largely comparable to Ike, even if it does just amount to him being Ike-lite

It's enough for me to adjust what I knew about him from PoR.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Slumber

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Boyd's power comes down to a similar argument. And for the people saying Boyd's treated as a joke, you did play Radiant Dawn, right? In PoR, he's absolutely a hotheaded jock who gets treated as such, but by RD, he's mellowed out a lot, and he's really only fucked with by Rolf, his bratty little brother, and Mist, his bratty little love interest

Its been a while but aren't those two the only ones he really talks with during Radiant Dawn due to the game lacking supports and those being his base conversation partners. Which isn't a bad thing since his chat with Rolf about his mom is easily Boyd's best moment. 

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its been a while but aren't those two the only ones he really talks with during Radiant Dawn due to the game lacking supports and those being his base conversation partners. Which isn't a bad thing since his chat with Rolf about his mom is easily Boyd's best moment. 

He talks with both Mist and Rolf a few times, and he does chime in a few times in the story proper.

He basically gets one goofy conversation with both, and one serious conversation with each. The goofy one is where ALL of the jokes about Boyd are in pretty much the whole game. His serious moments(Rolf's mom and his solo conversation with Mist), both are treated as they should be, and Boyd's not really clowned on at all. And when he shows up in the story, he's treated seriously as well. If he shows up maybe 10 times in total in RD, he's really only treated as a joke once. I might be slightly off as it's been a year since I last went through RD, but he's definitely treated more like a respected member of the group than not.

Which is a step up from PoR, where he was a joke in nearly every conversation, even in conversations with Laguz where he was being the most outwardly friendly member of the mercenaries.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Slumber

[Geenoble]

Lex: I'm only up to the middle of Chapter 1 of genealogy so i don't have much experience with his character.

Boyd: Managed to at least be considered Ike's rival, and Ike's a 10/10, also managed to take out a bunch of soldiers single handily in that one cut scene in RD part 2. 7/10

Arthur: 0/10, Luck is the best stat.

[Soviet Cut]

Lex:7,5/10

Even though he is one of my favorite units, he's not the behemoth that Sigurd is. Okay, he has minor Neir Blood but he will never be capable of wielding the Swanchika. But hey, he has a lot of good things about him. He was there to help Azell in the first generation, and he was the only axe wielding unit before promotion (Arden and Lachesis can wield axes after promotion but there is no point in doing it) and he's mounted. Axes in FE4 are heavy, you must have some good muscles for using them (I think the lightest axe is the Brave Axe, which weights 12, while most axes were 18-20, and don't forget that the AS in FE4 was Speed - Wpn Weight). Also, Hector before Hector.

 

I didn't play PoR or RD, so nothing to tell about Boyd.

Same for Arthur.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Lex: Lex is implied to be one of the stronger guys in Sigurd's army. It's a bit hard to gauge, though, as he doesn't really get a lot to say and they don't actually show him doing much. But going based off of what OTHER characters seem to think of him, he's probably a bit stronger than most of the other guys on the squad. Sigurd himself is of course stronger, and I'd think Lewyn, Ayra, and maybe a couple others are. But Alec, Naoise, Arden, Chulainn, Bewolf, Midir...Lex probably has all of them beat. 8/10

Boyd: Boyd is a decently strong guy, but I don't think he's turning the tide of battle all by himself, and I don't think he's the best the Greil Mercenaries have to offer. He's definitely a bit better than some other characters, probably being a bit more skilled than someone like Sothe or Devdan/Danved, but he's still probably somewhere around a 7/10 I think, maybe a 7.5/10.

Arthur: Honestly, I think Arthur is possibly the weakest of the royal retainers. He may be good enough to earn that position, and he may be able to somehow hold his own in combat, but he's so unlucky and the story really shows that. In many of his supports, he's outright losing to people or people are amazed he's survived as long as he has. Is he decent? Sure. Good? Eh... 6/10 at best.

[Etrurian emperor]

Time for more villains in the form of Arvis, Zephiel and Berkut.

Arvis: 9/10

I find Arvis a bit hard to judge. He's fairly intimidating, arrogant in his abilities and has a holy weapon that seems able to nuke people from orbit of its map animation is anything to go by. But Arvis also does....kinda little doesn't he? Its Sigurd, Langobalt and Reptor who do all the conquering for him and Arvis defeats them all not through power but by stabbing them in the back. Similiarly in Heroes his gimmick is debuffing rather than being a massive powerhouse. These things suggests Arvis might be more comfortable plotting than fighting. Which doesn't need to be that big of a drawback. Being cunning probably helps a lot in a fight. 

On the other hand Arvis has a holy weapon which counts for a lot and he seems like a perfectionist when it comes to training. That Arvis is able to wield every kind of main weapon as emperor shows that Arvis has a lot of skill. Even if he comes off as a schemer first and a fighter second then there are still a lot of factors that carry him towards a 9, but not one I give very confidently. 

Zephiel: 9/10

Zephiel is baddass with an imposing design and an equally imposing legendary weapon with some sort of lightning related powers. Zephiel has the stature of a main villain and has been said to be exceptionally gifted even as a youth. Zephiel uses all these traits to do...absolutely nothing. He got no big feats and just sits in his castle until its time for Roy to face him. He does easily trash Cecillia but she's the junior of the Etrurian generals and hardly the strongest fighter on Elibe. Zephiel deserves a higher score but for that he needs to do more. He doesn't repeatedly fight a Laguz royal like Zelgius or drives off Athos like Nergal, he doesn't even really turn the tide of battle on his own since Cecillia was already losing and all conquests are outsourced to his generals. Like I said in another topic, him personally bringing down Hector in a remake would really help hype this lazy king up a lot more. 

Berkut: 8,5/10

Echoes tries to hype Berkut up but....he's kind of a loser isn't he? He fails every time he's on screen. He loses to Alm when he is relatively early in his adventure and the next two times he keeps relying on outside help...and still loses to Alm. He really needed a win...against anyone, even if its just Zofian mooks because as it stands he has only defeats on his resume. No wonder the poor thing breaks down. 

But he's still Alm's rival, still the commander in chief of Rigel since his uncle seems just as lazy as Zephiel, and Alm does seem to struggle in their first fight. Berkut gets an 8,5 but only for what he's meant to be rather than for what he actually is. 

[Jingle Jangle]

Arvis 8.4/10 While Arvis is a scheming kind of villain, he's still a power house. With major Fjalar blood, the recover ring, and the Valflame tome he can play waste to enemies, like in the tutorial. But still (willing) lost to Seliph.

skipping Zephiel

Berkut 6-6.8/10 It's difficult for me to say his true power due to all the time he loses to Alm, Even with magic he finds a way to lose. I thought that the reason he is placed so highly in Rigel forces was because of nepotism, not for his actual talent.

[DisobeyedCargo]

Skipping arvis cause haven’t played genealogy 

Zephiel- a hesitant 8.5. He seems very powerful and could likely change the flow of battle on his own, but he doesn’t really do that much at all.

Berkut- I’ll give him a 7/10, which seems more than fair. He’s really hyped up and his strength is always praised, but every battle we see him in is a defeat for him.

 

 

[Icelerate]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Zephiel is baddass with an imposing design and an equally imposing legendary weapon with some sort of lightning related powers. Zephiel has the stature of a main villain and has been said to be exceptionally gifted even as a youth. Zephiel uses all these traits to do...absolutely nothing. He got no big feats and just sits in his castle until its time for Roy to face him. He does easily trash Cecillia but she's the junior of the Etrurian generals and hardly the strongest fighter on Elibe. Zephiel deserves a higher score but for that he needs to do more. He doesn't repeatedly fight a Laguz royal like Zelgius or drives off Athos like Nergal, he doesn't even really turn the tide of battle on his own since Cecillia was already losing and all conquests are outsourced to his generals. Like I said in another topic, him personally bringing down Hector in a remake would really help hype this lazy king up a lot more. 

 

Cecilia is Pent's successor so I think that's worth mentioning.  

I would give Zephiel an 8.5. I don't think he's quite BK level considering how Roy can match him while it took Ike 3 years worth of training as well as a blessing from Yune to be able to beat the Black Knight. 

[Soviet Cut]

Arvis: 9/10

Not only he has major Fjala blood and minor Lopto blood, but he's also done a thing that a lot of the other villains haven't done. He "defeats" your army. Yes, you can say that he backstabbed then but the guy manages to break Sigurd before killing him. He kills Sigurd, one of the strongest Lords in the entire series, although not in a fair fight. The battle of Belhalla has this funny name, battle, which makes no sense, since it was mostly a massacre.

Zephiel: 7/10

We can see that Zephiel would be a fair king if he was loved in his youth. His own father tried to kill him multiple times before Zephiel commits parricide and lose hope in humanity. But as @Etrurian emperor said, he's a sitting duck. Yes, he is strong and skilled but that strength is rarely put on the tables. You fight him once, inside his castle. And before that, the only thing he does is defeating Cecilia. He wields a Divine Weapon but that's pretty much it. But I do think his strategy was the strongest part in him, though his army takes a lot of debt for that. 

 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Arvis: Having a legendary tome and holy blood automatically makes him strong. But at the same time, we don't see Arvis himself doing very much. He mostly manipulates everyone else into doing what he wants, and he kills Sigurd through dirty tactics. Then again, that could just show that he's another one of those brains over brawn characters. And as other characters have demonstrated, that can add significantly to how strong you are. I mean lets face it, Arvis killed Sigurd. Dirty tactics or not, he killed him. Flat-out. 9/10

Zephiel: Like Arvis, we don't really see Zephiel doing a whole lot, but the story implies that he's a super strong dude. I generally take implications like that seriously, even if his only shown feat is beating Cecilia. 8.5/10

Berkut: I think Berkut is a pushover, honestly. Sure he may be decently strong, but he's always shown losing. To pretty much everyone. He's one of the weaker rivals/secondary antagonists in the series, it seems. Sonia, Murdock, Gharnef, and pretty much any other secondary antagonist could probably beat him. 6.5/10 at worst, 7/10 at best.

[Tenders]

Arvis 10/10 He is the definition of a ten. He conquered the known world. He has the power of Fala. He has a tome that both is tied for the strongest on the continent and gives him increased fighting ability.

Zephiel 8/10 

Berkut Lies/10 There are multiple people just in Alm’s army alone that can take this guy. 6/10

[Armagon]

Arvis: 9.5/10. One of the most powerful men to have ever lived and posses a deadly Holy Weapon. He's also a good BBQ chef haha funny original joke.

Zephiel: 8.5/10. Strong but we don't see him do anything. Unless you count the non-canon Hasha no Tsurugi manga in which he wipes the floor with Al and nearly beats both Roy and Al.

Berkut: 7/10. We're told he's strong but he loses every time.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

So are we done rating characters now?

[DisobeyedCargo]

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

So are we done rating characters now?

I mean I guess we could continue on our own but the title would be kinda inaccurate

[Etrurian emperor]

Don't worry. I'm not done yet  I just haven't found the time to sit down for this one. 

But thanks. I'm happy my effort is getting missed when its gone!