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Who’s your favorite “Bad Unit” in FE?


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I have to vote for Fiona, my favorite Cavalier, a class I generally dislike. I don't care how bad she is, I fed her with tons of BEXP and she was fine.

Besides her, I guess every Trainee and Est in existence, since I love characters who start weak but become monsters at the end of the game (I'm having flashbacks of my super-fast General Amelia in Sacred Stones. Good times), but the original Est in particular. I don't care what Mangs says, I used Est in both SD and Echoes and she's awesome. I also use her in Heroes a little.

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I always greatly enjoyed using Renault. FE7 was easy enough for me to save some stat boosters and make him quite usefull at the very end. His conversations really deepened both his and Nergal's history for me.

Even when not saving stat boosters he often found his way to my final team just because I enjoyed his character, often replacing the healer I levelled througout the game.

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Rinkah and Virion.  In no-grind runs, they often manage to help out.  Also try to use characters like Midori, Hana, and Hinata - characters that everyone says are absolute trite, yet I manage to get them through to the end.  I only ever have problems with mages that have bad speed, like Orochi.

Oboro in Warriors.  Because apparently anyone who isn't on a mount or Azura is "low-tier".  Which actually isn't bad in FEW, but I still make better use of her and prefer her over most mounted units.

Bors in Binding Blade.  The only problem I've had with him is garbage mobility, he actually is tanky and speedy enough that he never winds up getting killed.  Sue hasn't been the worst unit either; I'd take her over Treck and Noah any day of the week.  Though I still think Dorothy works out better for me in the end.

And Ayra in Genealogy.  I'll never not use Mizz Overkill, even if everyone says she's not good enough to use outside of the Arena.  Also have a soft spot for Tiltyu and Tine, for their horribly tragic stories; I just want them to be able to get revenge on their shitty relatives (Bloom and Reptor in particular; Bloom's kids are alright, though) and Hilda.

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Arden from FE4. His dialogue when he gets the pursuit ring and the event were he's really happy that he got himself a 'wifey' are so heartwarming. 

His conversations with Fury and Ayra are also really cute. You go big guy!

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On 11.10.2018 at 7:54 PM, Zihark11 said:

FE8: Vanessa. I dont like Pegasus knights

Vanessa is considered to be one of the best units in FE8? You should check that again, friend.

Atlas, Wolt, Geese, Wil, Dart, Forde, Rolf, Etzel & Gordin. Probably missed some one...

Edited by fOrEiGn sOUl
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On 10/11/2018 at 5:19 PM, Ertrick36 said:

And Ayra in Genealogy.  I'll never not use Mizz Overkill, even if everyone says she's not good enough to use outside of the Arena. 

What? I thought she wasn't that bad, other than lacking a horse?

On 10/11/2018 at 5:19 PM, Ertrick36 said:

Also try to use characters like Midori, Hana, and Hinata - characters that everyone says are absolute trite

Bold: People actually think Midori's bad? That's news to me - I never saw much of the sort.

Anyway, for an answer to the topic, I'd say L'arachel.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

What? I thought she wasn't that bad, other than lacking a horse?

I've seen people who've analyzed the game's units say she's not very good.  Not quite like someone such as Arden who's just really slow and disappointing, but she has kind of a hard time actually surviving an onslaught.  You have, like, at least half a dozen mounted units who perform about as well if not better than her, so some say she's not all that worth it to actually field and use for ranked runs.  They prefer having her soar in levels in the Arena, which she actually is exceptionally good at no matter how you slice things.

The only infantry units I've seen people praise are leg ring wielding dancers, Lewyn, Shannan, and Ayra's kids.  Every other unit that gets showered with praise either starts on a horse or gets one upon promotion.  Or they're a healbot, but in that case they're only "good" because they can just sit around spamming warp staves and instantly shoot up, like, 20 levels in a single chapter.

4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: People actually think Midori's bad? That's news to me - I never saw much of the sort.

I swore one of the other Fates board regulars complained about her.  And I think I recall someone said that she's the lowest-tier archer.  Not necessarily a consensus like there is with Rinkah, and of course there's a lot of variance at play depending on who you pair Kaze with...  The irony is that I probably listened too much to some stupid, flimsy tier list a random guy made, and I remember actually doing a challenge run where I used strictly the "low-tier" units to spite that tier list.  And people also beat up on her as a character, given that she's pretty much a child in an army (as if that's anything new in the series).  Never really saw a many problems with her as a unit or as a character, there are plenty of more egregious members of Fates' cast for both cases.

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4 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I've seen people who've analyzed the game's units say she's not very good.  Not quite like someone such as Arden who's just really slow and disappointing, but she has kind of a hard time actually surviving an onslaught.  You have, like, at least half a dozen mounted units who perform about as well if not better than her, so some say she's not all that worth it to actually field and use for ranked runs.  They prefer having her soar in levels in the Arena, which she actually is exceptionally good at no matter how you slice things.

The only infantry units I've seen people praise are leg ring wielding dancers, Lewyn, Shannan, and Ayra's kids.  Every other unit that gets showered with praise either starts on a horse or gets one upon promotion.  Or they're a healbot, but in that case they're only "good" because they can just sit around spamming warp staves and instantly shoot up, like, 20 levels in a single chapter.

Eh, fair enough.

4 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I swore one of the other Fates board regulars complained about her.  And I think I recall someone said that she's the lowest-tier archer.  Not necessarily a consensus like there is with Rinkah, and of course there's a lot of variance at play depending on who you pair Kaze with...  The irony is that I probably listened too much to some stupid, flimsy tier list a random guy made, and I remember actually doing a challenge run where I used strictly the "low-tier" units to spite that tier list.  And people also beat up on her as a character, given that she's pretty much a child in an army (as if that's anything new in the series).  Never really saw a many problems with her as a unit or as a character, there are plenty of more egregious members of Fates' cast for both cases.

I don't remember. Also, children being involved with the protagonists' armies in FE has been a thing since the NES days. And yes, I would agree that Fates isn't the most egregious offender with regard to kids in the army - that would likely be FE4 or FE6 (though at least there's a good reason for it in the former; the latter has no real justification).

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6 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I swore one of the other Fates board regulars complained about her.  And I think I recall someone said that she's the lowest-tier archer.  Not necessarily a consensus like there is with Rinkah, and of course there's a lot of variance at play depending on who you pair Kaze with...  The irony is that I probably listened too much to some stupid, flimsy tier list a random guy made, and I remember actually doing a challenge run where I used strictly the "low-tier" units to spite that tier list.  And people also beat up on her as a character, given that she's pretty much a child in an army (as if that's anything new in the series).  Never really saw a many problems with her as a unit or as a character, there are plenty of more egregious members of Fates' cast for both cases.

From a gameplay perspective, I do think Midori is lacking as a unit. Her highest growths are Skl and Luck, stats which have never been awe-inspiring. Her Personal has a little use for a PvP party trick, but not really relevant to the actual game itself besides a few extra 300gs.

Her base class is Apothecary, the only in the game. Yet the class has eh skills, not bad, just not really good. It's promotions are Merchant and Mechanist- the first has terribad skills without very very planned setup, and the latter is balanced and lacking outside of the late coming Replicate.

Kaze gives Ninja and Master Ninja, which help, a bit. Ninja means Poison Strike and Locktouch if you make her a Mechanist, and they get Shuriken. Ninja actually specializes in stats, which is good since Midori is just too balanced at base, she isn't an amazing tank, nor a glass cannon, she doesn't do any particular role real well.

Are there worse kids? I could see some cases being presented, but Midori is at least in the lower half.

As for pairing Kaze- I can give Camilla (to use a godly mother) to Kaze, and I can equally give her to Laslow. Some differences in terms of ideal class inheritance yes, and in this case I can't do Camilla!Siegbert (not that he really needs her, daddy already gives WR), but not too many differences normally speaking.

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46 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

From a gameplay perspective, I do think Midori is lacking as a unit. Her highest growths are Skl and Luck, stats which have never been awe-inspiring. Her Personal has a little use for a PvP party trick, but not really relevant to the actual game itself besides a few extra 300gs.

Her base class is Apothecary, the only in the game. Yet the class has eh skills, not bad, just not really good. It's promotions are Merchant and Mechanist- the first has terribad skills without very very planned setup, and the latter is balanced and lacking outside of the late coming Replicate.

Kaze gives Ninja and Master Ninja, which help, a bit. Ninja means Poison Strike and Locktouch if you make her a Mechanist, and they get Shuriken. Ninja actually specializes in stats, which is good since Midori is just too balanced at base, she isn't an amazing tank, nor a glass cannon, she doesn't do any particular role real well.

Are there worse kids? I could see some cases being presented, but Midori is at least in the lower half.

As for pairing Kaze- I can give Camilla (to use a godly mother) to Kaze, and I can equally give her to Laslow. Some differences in terms of ideal class inheritance yes, and in this case I can't do Camilla!Siegbert (not that he really needs her, daddy already gives WR), but not too many differences normally speaking.

I would frankly say Siegbert's worse - he's stuck in Xander's shadow no matter which way you slice it (at least that's how I see it), and his personal skill is a worse version of Corrin's. Also, Dwyer, at least if you're playing as a male Corrin, and thus Jakob joins late. There's also Rhajat, who is pretty much always doomed to suffer from hit issues. I would at least consider Midori better than those three.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Donnel, no question. Has to get 8 levels after joining to reclass (which also means he has to eat a Second Seal), has no weapon ranks, and his personal caps hinder him without DLC. However, he's really fun to use in all of his class combos, although I would only use him on Hard Classic or below.

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12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

From a gameplay perspective, I do think Midori is lacking as a unit. Her highest growths are Skl and Luck, stats which have never been awe-inspiring. Her Personal has a little use for a PvP party trick, but not really relevant to the actual game itself besides a few extra 300gs.

Well, look at units like Arthur or Rhajat, who suffer from severely low stats in either case.  They're either getting constantly crit'd or they just can't hit things for the life of them; I'd rather take Midori's abundance of utility stats and okayish strength and speed over that.  And sure her personal isn't all that great considering there are exactly six luck-based skills in the game and only, like, two or three of them are useful in combat, but some units who are pretty useful also get somewhat situational personals, such as practically every shared unit (half of them depend on being paired with the avatar which you might not do), and many more get some fairly hurtful personals (once again, let's bring up Arthur here).

For all intents and purposes, I'm not going to get into inheritance because people will have all sort of philosophies on how you should handle inheritance and quite frankly that's a can of worms I'd rather not open up.  Also because I prefer to compare units not by generation (unless it's Genealogy where you practically have no choice but to do so), but by class/role in the army.  I'm just looking at what they have to offer at base.  Midori's strength and speed growths are only slightly lower than those of Oboro's, who is often hailed as one of the better non-royal units in Birthright.  Granted, Midori's not gonna be tanking (at least not until promotion, if that's even a thing she'll be able to do), but all things considered she's a more balanced archer than someone like Setsuna.  She most certainly could pull off the ninja trade better, that's for sure.

Also not getting that much into class skills because if your strategy hinges on the class having good skills, you simply aren't a good strategist (or you're playing the oh-so-balanced Genealogy of the Holy Shit, Sigurd Killed All the Soldiers Guarding that Castle Again).

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5 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Well, look at units like Arthur or Rhajat, who suffer from severely low stats in either case.  They're either getting constantly crit'd or they just can't hit things for the life of them; I'd rather take Midori's abundance of utility stats and okayish strength and speed over that.  And sure her personal isn't all that great considering there are exactly six luck-based skills in the game and only, like, two or three of them are useful in combat, but some units who are pretty useful also get somewhat situational personals, such as practically every shared unit (half of them depend on being paired with the avatar which you might not do), and many more get some fairly hurtful personals (once again, let's bring up Arthur here).

Admittedly I've never used Arthur because he is so crit-prone and lacks for Spd. Rhajat- well I've only ever recruited her as a lategame Onmyoji, so I can't speak of game-long issues with her. (That is how I usually view the kids- late game filler, only select kids do I consider getting early: Shiro, Ignatius, Percy, Ophelia.) Skill and Luck aren't total junk stats (and Fates's tweaks to the hit rates and crit formula help correct this issue), it just normally isn't that great in exuberance like with Midori. If I'm going to use a balanced unit with leans in certain stats, I'd rather have them placed elsewhere, namely among the classic good trio of Str/Spd/Def.

Better than Setsuna? Reasonable assertion. BR and Rev Setsuna alike have a real rocky start. I'm not calling Midori the absolute worst. 

As for class skills well yeah, they're more cherries, hot fudge and whip cream than the ice cream and brownie that is the character themselves upon which they rest. I just was accounting for them.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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In the three times I've played RD i always pump all my Bexp into Oliver and bring him into the tower. It felt great as he oneshot both Lekain and Levail with Corona.

Maybe It's for the meme, maybe because I unironically like his character, maybe because he's beautiful, either way i still use him.

Honourable mentions include: Bartre, Devdan, Danved, Joshua, Nino and Virion.

Edited by Geenoble
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I am known as the crazy person who always takes the long and painful road to make FE6 Wendy great in Normal Mode. With more experience in it, the training montage actually becomes more fun, and the final results are my guilty pleasure.

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On 10/12/2018 at 2:36 AM, starburst said:

Since I have only completed Conquest:

· Sorcerer Odin
Divisive for many. Either people see that he solos entire maps or just say that he is trash.
His balanced growths make him prone to RNG-mess, which I believe is what most people struggle with. Since I like Odin as a character, I have invested more in him as a unit across multiple campaigns.

· Sniper Mozu
Aptitude ensures that she delivers consistently across multiple plays, but the issue with her is usually about the 'investment' and not about the unit itself. In my experience, Sniper Mozu is infinitely better than re-classed Jakob.

Did these two units too. For Odin I had him marry Oni talent Corrin to get him deathblow + fed him stat boosters and some early level up rigging. He ended up becoming a monster that killed Takumi with Abysmal Body Blows.

 

And yeah, Sniper Mozu >>>>>>> Paladin Jakob. It pains me to see so many players dismiss one of the best ninja killers in conquest in favour of a late game pair-up bot.

 

Other than that, I like to use Clive for two reasons: his importance in the story and to humiliate bosses. I also gave Luthier a pitchfork, but kept him as a mage, so he’s only slightly ahead of his sister.

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On 10/11/2018 at 1:41 AM, Manoharlal Motilulli said:

Roshea. 10/10 looks.

On 10/11/2018 at 7:01 AM, PeaceRibbon said:

Luthier is also pretty underwhelming considering Shadows of Valentia is full of crazy powerful mages whom he can't really keep up with, but I enjoy using him cause he's got a cool design.

 

I think I'll get along well with both of you (though I can't say I feel the same way about Roshea's aesthetic).

On 10/11/2018 at 4:21 AM, Saint Rubenio said:

I find quite the guilty pleasure in using Tomas in FE12. The guy's probably the most forgettable character in the game, having only just in FE11 earned the honour of having his own face rather than being a clone of Gordin or a Sedgar lookalike, and yet, I've used him twice or thrice over the course of all my runs of the game. That's more times than I've used Sirius, Palla, Malicia, and especially Catria, whom I have never even used (please accept my apologies).

His bases are atrocious, but with a B rank in bows and amazing growth rates, if you have thousands upon thousands of gold to spare, he can use the base arena to get up to speed and become a hilarious Sniper. Add to that the fact that if you use him for a few chapters he grows confident enough to try and shoot the avatar's big foreheard three times in a row, and you've got an absolute joy of a unit to use. Also, his hair's dumb and I love him for that.

Taking the answer out of a mod's mouth is a bannable offense! :P:

My guilty pleasure is FE11 Tomas.  He has a personal resistance growth for whatever reason, which has resulted in some serious shenanigans.  Going Paladin -> Dracoknight is usually what I do with him, but he also works as a Bishop.  His FE12 incarnation, sadly, isn't quite as amusing to me.

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8 hours ago, Lief said:

Did these two units too. For Odin I had him marry Oni talent Corrin to get him deathblow + fed him stat boosters and some early level up rigging. He ended up becoming a monster that killed Takumi with Abysmal Body Blows.

And yeah, Sniper Mozu >>>>>>> Paladin Jakob. It pains me to see so many players dismiss one of the best ninja killers in conquest in favour of a late game pair-up bot.


Yes, I have also done the Sorcerer + Death Blow combo. Its critical hit landing (not only its rate) is insane.
Only recently have I moved 'back to basics' and let Odin walk around with Nosferatu and Vantage. Immortal.

Mozu is dismissed by many players, so many and so often that it makes one rethink one's experiences. But after (literally) a dozen campaigns using her, I can only say that she delivers constantly across multiple runs and different parties. Aptitude does wonders with her growths, Sniper has great skills, bows have high might and hit rate and vantage over annoying shurikens, she has the Speed to double everything and the Skill to land critical hits like a pyscho. Yes, please!

The Heart Seal is an important investment, but I believe that Mozu is worth it. About training her, she always ends at level 8-9 with D-rank after her own chapter (as an Archer or as a Villager, it does not matter.) As a bonus, her DNA and Aptitude create monstrous Sophie and Velouria; and Sniper Effie (or Berserker Effie with Sniper skills) is ridiculously powerful.

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